Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Zardnaar May 07, 2015 12:43:30	5E now has a few classes from outside the PHB.   Death Cleric Favoured Soul Sorcerer Storm Sorcerer Swashbuckler Rogue    I am just wondering what peopl think of these classes.   Death Cleric Better than I though initially. A little MAD with the default array but it gets better with rolled stats. Kind of needs a 14 dex, 13+ strength, 14+ wisdom and a decent con as well due to medium armor. Doesn't require wisdom as much as most clerics though and its smite ability starts adding up fast for damage. I saw one last night being used at level 8 with a flametongue sword and its basic damage was 2d8+2d6+4 (18 strength Gauntlets of Ogre Power) and it had +21 smite damage twice per short rest. Clerics and some of tthe other MAD type classes (Valor Bards, Bladelocks etc) benefit a lot more than other classes from higher stats and magic items such as the Gauntlets.   Favoured Soul Sorcerer. Looks great on paper and I would like to see on in action. Like every other spell casting class though with a melee option though it is going to suffer from MAD or have to use all its feat buffs to level 8 to pump dex. Probably suited to being an archer due to d6 hit dice I thik the Life, Light and Tempest domains are dedcent options. The life one may be the best buffer in the game though due to access to bless and the ability to twin spells like haste, stoneskin, greater invisability. I would consider a melee option as a Dwarf or with high rolled stats.   Storm Sorcerer. On the dfence about this one. It looks OK but seems weaker vs the other Sorcerer options but I am not 100% sure. Knowing roughly double the spells of the other non Favoured Soul Sorcerers appeals however even with the opportunity cost trade off of moar damage (Dragon) or losing the wild mage mechanics.    Swashbuckler Rogue. Looks really good and seems to be able to sneakattack all of the time. I would probably multiclass it myself (fighter 1/Rogue XYZ) to get better saves and a fighting style (duelist, TWF) and the ability to use shields.
#2 mellored May 07, 2015 13:06:23	You dno't need Str for a death cleric.   Swashbuckler needs some rewording.     Otherwise, they all seem pretty balanced and reasonably intresting.
#3 AaronOfBarbaria May 07, 2015 13:10:44	My thoughts are simple:   Death cleric is no more or less than any other cleric domain from what I have seen of one in play.   Favored soul, storm sorcerer, and swashbuckler all seem fine upon reading them, but I haven't seen them in play so I don't know for sure.
#4 Marandahir May 07, 2015 13:17:16	Don't forget the Oathbreaker Paladin, basically a Blackguard. That one's pretty awesome, though I'd love to see a Ronin version (oathbreaking, but not all evil-evil). And don't forget the Variant Ranger, who doesn't cast but fights like a Battle Master Fighter, with some rangery healing features added and still the choice of Hunter-type martial arts or Beast Master tactics.
#5 Serpine May 07, 2015 13:19:44	Zardnaar wrote:
#6 Marandahir May 07, 2015 13:22:54	Oh right, I forgot Artificer Wizard – mostly because that was considered enitirely wrong by everyone and Wizards have already said they're going back to the drawing board with the Artificer.
#7 Diffan May 07, 2015 13:28:27	I'd like to see some ranged maneuvers for the spell-less ranger. But I haven't seen these classes in play yet so I can't comment on their abilities 1st hand. They read well enough though and reports seem to indicate that they're fine compared to PHB options
#8 Kentus May 07, 2015 14:18:44	Death Cleric and Oathbreaker: Seems to be on line with the other subclasses. Very neat and appropiate, even though I dislike the fact, that they are not in the PHB. Maybe they just needed a bit more time for it...   The Unearthen Arcana classes are still a bit rough at the edges, but generally I like them. Here are more or less my 'problems'.   Favored Soul: I would've added another hp per level like the draconic bloodline. But I think this works way better than making a 'sorcerous cleric'. Spellless ranger: Tough call, I think the idea itself is very neat and well done, even though you don't have to like everything themetically. But it'd be better imo, if this one could include subclasses. Swashbuckler: Would change proficiency instead of charisma to initiative (so it won't stack with champion or bard) and swap the 9th level ability (Panache) to a social interaction only feature. Maybe I would hold on sneak attacks without allies until 9th level, too. Storm Sorcerer: Another hard one... Generally I like the idea, the problem I have is, that there is too much spreaded mini-damage, this makes it a bit tedious to manage. Artificier Wizard: Even though it wasn't quite an Artificer, I liked the way it worked, since this makes resource management rewarding.   I do think, that the Unearthen Arcana classes are definitely a great start to do some redesigns for your campaigns, since the ideas in itself are great. It's just that if you design something for yourself, you need a lot of time to see its weaknesses, while another mind will notice it from the start. ;)
#9 Tempest_Stormwind May 07, 2015 15:09:15	I've not seen any of them in play yet, so take this with a grain of salt. Death cleric: Seems fine. I've not played with it myself but it appears completely in line with the rest of the PHB domains - although I'd like to see it in the hands of a skilled player who's following a less-than-EEEEEEEEEEVIL death god, like Kelemvor, to see how appropriate it actually feels. Oathbreaker paladin: Really, my only beef with this is that it isn't an oathbreaker - it's a Death Knight, following, say, an Oath of Domination or something. It's all centered around undead and leadership. My issue is that, apparently, breaking your Oath of Vengeance and failing to attone means you're an undead general now. Leave "oathbreaker" as a term for those who haven't yet atoned for failing to uphold their oath (a sidebar rule, I note), and call the oathbreaker paladin something different. Favored Soul sorcerer: I think it adds too many spells all at once, but it works surprisingly well for what it's supposed to be. What really impressed me was the economy of ideas and words - this is a really simple tweak to an existing (and not immediately obvious) class, and the final result really does feel quite a lot like the classical Favored Soul. Spell-less ranger: Well-intentioned and well-explained, but I don't like it nonetheless, particularly because it skims a bit too close to the battle master, instead of becoming something on its own. I feel that if they'd developed it as much as they've developed some of the subclasses (this one isn't a subclass, it's an edit to the main class chassis), it could have worked. Swashbuckler rogue: My thoughts on this are documented here. I'm excited for this archetype, but think a couple abilities (Charisma instead of proficiency and some unclear writing in Toujours l'Audace, and quite a lot about how Panache actually works) need solid refinement. Storm sorcerer: I like this slightly more than the favored soul, but I still have a bit of a hard time separating it from the Tempest cleric thematically even though I like the Storm sorcerer more, mechanically. (The whole "elemental evil" plotline never really resonated with me, so I don't feel any narrative traction to this particular direction. For that matter, none of the sorcerer archetypes really have that traction for me, since I really don't subscribe to the DRAGONS YEEEEEAAAAAAAHHH attitude that suffuses some parts of D&D, but Wild Mage was different enough to pique my interest.) I'm tempted to use this in a later campaign - House Lyrandar cries out for this. Artificer wizard: Let's be charitable - it's "an" artificer, but a poor one, and it certainly isn't the Eberron artificer. I disliked this so much I decided to try to do better, and cheered when I heard it was going back to the drawing board. That said, I liked its specific balance of non-spell-slot but spell-slot-equivalent resource management putting a limit on how many toys you could build, so I was sure to use something similar in my own (craft reserve). As an afterthought, I'd love for the sorcerer to have some unique spells in general. It's the only class where every single spell it knows (including through subclasses) appears on at least one other spell list. I know some of the metamagics make them work differently - Twin buffs operate like totally different spells than their normal buffs - but they still feel kind of... well...   Also, seeing some of these - notably the favored soul and swashbuckler - has got me thinking about implementing other "similar, but not" variant classes from previous editions in the 5e context. And that's, I think, a good thing - they're inspiring the creative process, instead of just soliciting basic playtest feedback.