The Problem With the 5e Adventures So Far - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Grimcleaver May 11, 2015 16:09:42	I say the "problem with 5e adventures", but really the first few, during the 4e-5e changeover, were great! Murder in Baldur's Gate, Return of the Crystal Shard. But these new hardbound ones all seem to follow the exact same formula: Port in some thing from Greyhawk/"Core" D&D that exists only in the margins of Faerun if it exists at all (Tiamat, Temple of Elemental Evil, Demogorgon). Then have their cultists carpet bomb the Sword Coast for a while with an eye toward DESTROYING THE WORLD! Hasn't Faerun seen too much of this already? I thought the plan was to stop wrecking Faerun? The Sundering was really interesting. What happened to that? The funny thing is the free adventures with the Adventurer's League seem much more restrained and interested in exploring the lore and conflicts of Faerun. I'd buy fleshed out versions of those. Especially the Pool of Radiance one. It comes down to two things for me, really: explore the fun stuff about Faerun more--it's a fun enough setting with more than enough history and conflicts and antagonists to not have to port stuff in; and second, make the scope of the adventures more restrained and less crazy gonzo appocolyptic. Have interesting developments that whether the PCs win or lose will result in interesting changes--or better yet, have adventures where PCs get to pick a side and take a hand in shaping the setting.
#2 BRJN May 11, 2015 17:20:08	I too can see where so many world-shattering conspiracies in one area would eventually create Twilight:2000 - The Sword Coast Front. After the Cult of the Dragon gets done plundering everything that's not nailed down (or behind a fortified wall), I'd like to run adventures where we Heroes rebuild the civilized world / tame the wild frontier. The 3e FRCS was especially good at evoking that kind of atmosphere.
#3 EthanSental May 11, 2015 17:59:25	I'd do the same. I signed up for the Adventurers League but haven't had any luck in being able to view anything on the site dealing with the adventures themselves.
#4 Grimcleaver May 11, 2015 19:03:49	Yeah it seems like after three solid adventures of this everything would be smashed flat.
#5 pukunui May 11, 2015 19:15:14	Grimcleaver wrote:
#6 shaterbane May 11, 2015 19:51:10	BRJN wrote:
#7 lawrencehoy May 11, 2015 20:57:33	It seems to me that WotC is just trying to provide the kind of adventures that fit the "heroic" playstyle that many people complained that they wanted; all those indignant voices (here in the forums, as well as elsewhere), that decried the "gritty" playstyle that the "apprentice tier" indicated, demanding more heroic play. Now, I see some of the same people (not necessarily the OP of this thread, which is just the latest in many on the topic) complaining that the playstyle suggested by the titles of the adventures is too heroic (even though only the first series was actually on as grand a scale as everyone assumes they all are). Personally, I don't run published adventures "as is", unless I'm running them for organized play. I do use them for inspiration, though; and, would like to see more small scale adventures published. The kind I can incorporate into an ongoing campaign, as interludes and side treks.
#8 Zardnaar May 11, 2015 21:48:09	I think they are still figuring things out. Paio tries to have a bit of variety wih their APs, I haven't bothered buying the 5E ones after I got the Timat ones.
#9 Devilbass May 11, 2015 21:56:25	PotA is not a Faerun shaking adventure. It certainly has serious consequences for the Dessarin Valley and the settlements therein, but that's a pretty small region overall. It's more like the buildup to a realms shaking event, except the pcs cab stop it before it reaches critical mass. Personally, I like this approach.
#10 Grimcleaver May 11, 2015 23:46:54	I' d be really relieved if the Temple of Elemental Evil was as toned down as people seem to be suggesting. I got the pitch from on here that crazed elemental cultists were swarming out from various temples across the Sword Coast trying to obliterate Faerun back into raw elements. That in the wake of dragon cults looting everything and followed by demons boiling out of the Underdark to R-rated murder-eat-kill everyone...that just seemed like way much. If it's more subdued than that, maybe I'll give it another look.
#11 pukunui May 12, 2015 0:01:45	Grimcleaver wrote:
#12 RagoSteel May 12, 2015 0:56:03	Have DM's falling so low that they need pre-made epic adventures? Make your own! Stop complaining about silly product they are releasing, they already destroyed the realms in 4th edition, they can't do much more to it..... EXCEPT lead you down a dirty hole with you favorite misunderstood hippie dark elf ranger who will likely be horribly misrepresented by thousands of DMs, to fight off another invasion of dirty demons which are super genius immortal creatures of absolute evil that heroic players will reap like farmers reaping wheat. I cry myself to sleep thinking about the state of the Game on days that end in Z. I once saw a balor 2nd edition....I died two rounds later, and I wasn't angry about it. I do have the books personally and I use them more for lore and background. I do agree to many earth shattering events make me think of "the incredibles" movie when the hero is complaining about having to constantly save folks, seriously I just cleaned the world five minutes ago! But until they start releasing new Box sets like the days of old with actual useful stuff like Maps and back ground the silly little adventures are all we got (for the realms). If your tired of super players (because power creep is a real problem in D&D), play monsters using thier actual intelligence, like wererats that run away instead of standing around to be mowed down by that level 2 fighter with a +5 str and +5 weapons (this actually really annoyed my players that a third of them got away, which was good). Better yet, start digging up and converting your old 2nd edition stuff to 5th edition, its not too hard. Its better fun while we wait for more worthwhile product lines.
#13 JohnLynch May 12, 2015 1:00:54	When you simplify any adventure it eventually comes down to "big bad guy is trying to destroy the world!' Spoilers for the Paizo APs: Show Rise of the Runelords: Big Bad is trying to escape and take over the world. Curse of the Crimson throne: Big Bad is trying to escape and take over the city (and then the world) Second Darkness: Drow are trying to destroy the world. Legacy of Fire: Big Bad trying to be awakened to destroy the world. Council of Thieves: I don't know what happened here. But it certainly involved the end of the city (we never finished this one). Kingmaker: Big Bad trying to take over your kingdom. Serpent's Skull: Big Bad trying to be put together again and destroy the world. Carrion Crown: Big Bad trying to be broken free and take over the world.
#14 XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek May 12, 2015 2:48:40	Grimcleaver wrote:
#15 BoldItalic May 12, 2015 3:01:19	All the nasties do seem to be targetting FR exclusively. It's as if they resent the way it has been rebuilt by WotC after they went to all that trouble to destroy it last time. Still, it does leave all the other parts of the multiverse free for us to do what we like with. My homebrew campaign doesn't have these problems.
#16 Grimcleaver May 12, 2015 3:26:33	It's not that I so much need the prefab adventures. I've been running two games a week for a while now just fine, one in Planescape, one a complete top to bottom original setting. It's that I want to support the new edition and apart from the core books (I bought them all) and the on-demand Player's Guide (will have it any day now) and the dice masters game and the minis (which I totally buy too) these hardcover adventures are my best way of doing that. But I've been bothered by some stuff that really I didn't totally put my finger on until I was filling out this last survey--and thought I'd voice it again here. Now that said, I think some of these products might merit another look, I may have judged them too harshly from their synopses. But making my own adventures and settings ain't a problem, it'd really about sharing feedback to hopefully better the product. 2e is still pretty cool. I love Skills and Powers.
#17 Finieous May 12, 2015 7:48:37	Devilbass wrote:
(Reply to #17) Devilbass	Finieous wrote:
#19 Brightmantle May 12, 2015 8:33:56	"Princes of the Minor Annoyance"
#20 Finieous May 12, 2015 8:45:24	Princes of Elemental Inconvenience
#21 SirAntoine May 12, 2015 9:50:16	I hear you, but I think they should make the most of the iconic D&D monsters and villains. Pathfinder, for instance, can't do that (nor anyone else), and it's obviously way cool so Wizards should exploit it. If only they could write the adventures edition-neutral, that would be great.
#22 Mechatarrasque May 12, 2015 10:02:18	My only complaint is the overuse of the cult theme--surely there is at least one evil cabal of wizards in the FR? I will admit that PotA gives some very interesting cultist NPC classes and magical gear. I hope most of the cultist have been killed off/transformed into something else by the time the PC's get to the underdark for Out of the Abyss, so the low level fights can be more demon centered.
#23 Omnilicious May 12, 2015 11:10:59	I've solved part of the problem by placing the adventure in Eberron. I've created a new problem by placing the adventures in Eberron.
#24 BoldItalic May 12, 2015 11:34:12	Portmanteau title for all the 5e adventures so far:
#25 pukunui May 12, 2015 12:25:27	SirAntoine wrote:
#26 BRJN May 12, 2015 14:24:36	Mechatarrasque wrote:
#27 pukunui May 12, 2015 15:17:34	The Red Wizards featured quite prominently in three of the playtest adventures (Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle, Scourge of the Sword Coast, and Dead in Thay). Also, a member of the Arcane Brotherhood is one of the three primary antagonists in Legacy of the Crystal Shard.
#28 SirAntoine May 12, 2015 16:11:23	pukunui wrote:
#29 pukunui May 12, 2015 16:15:23	SirAntoine wrote:
#30 SirAntoine May 12, 2015 16:31:53	pukunui wrote:
#31 pukunui May 12, 2015 16:51:47	SirAntoine wrote:
#32 arnwolf666 May 12, 2015 16:54:35	My main problem with the adventures is that I want them to take you all they way to 20th level (at least 19th level). They really changed the way levels 13 to 20 are played and I think it should be easier for them to write for those levels.
#33 SirAntoine May 12, 2015 16:55:56	pukunui wrote:
#34 pukunui May 12, 2015 17:06:01	SirAntoine wrote:
(Reply to #32) RagoSteel	arnwolf666 wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Grimcleaver

May 11, 2015 16:09:42

I say the "problem with 5e adventures", but really the first few, during the 4e-5e changeover, were great! Murder in Baldur's Gate, Return of the Crystal Shard. But these new hardbound ones all seem to follow the exact same formula: Port in some thing from Greyhawk/"Core" D&D that exists only in the margins of Faerun if it exists at all (Tiamat, Temple of Elemental Evil, Demogorgon). Then have their cultists carpet bomb the Sword Coast for a while with an eye toward DESTROYING THE WORLD!

Hasn't Faerun seen too much of this already? I thought the plan was to stop wrecking Faerun? The Sundering was really interesting. What happened to that? The funny thing is the free adventures with the Adventurer's League seem much more restrained and interested in exploring the lore and conflicts of Faerun. I'd buy fleshed out versions of those. Especially the Pool of Radiance one. It comes down to two things for me, really: explore the fun stuff about Faerun more--it's a fun enough setting with more than enough history and conflicts and antagonists to not have to port stuff in; and second, make the scope of the adventures more restrained and less crazy gonzo appocolyptic. Have interesting developments that whether the PCs win or lose will result in interesting changes--or better yet, have adventures where PCs get to *pick* a side and take a hand in shaping the setting.

BRJN

May 11, 2015 17:20:08

I too can see where so many world-shattering conspiracies in one area would eventually create Twilight:2000 - The Sword Coast Front.

After the Cult of the Dragon gets done plundering everything that's not nailed down (or behind a fortified wall), I'd like to run adventures where we Heroes rebuild the civilized world / tame the wild frontier. The 3e FRCS was especially good at evoking that kind of atmosphere.

EthanSental

May 11, 2015 17:59:25

I'd do the same. I signed up for the Adventurers League but haven't had any luck in being able to view anything on the site dealing with the adventures themselves.

Grimcleaver

May 11, 2015 19:03:49

Yeah it seems like after three solid adventures of this everything would be smashed flat.

pukunui

May 11, 2015 19:15:14

Grimcleaver wrote:

shaterbane

May 11, 2015 19:51:10

BRJN wrote:

lawrencehoy

May 11, 2015 20:57:33

It seems to me that WotC is just trying to provide the kind of adventures that fit the "heroic" playstyle that many people complained that they wanted; all those indignant voices (here in the forums, as well as elsewhere), that decried the "gritty" playstyle that the "apprentice tier" indicated, demanding more heroic play.

Now, I see some of the same people (not necessarily the OP of this thread, which is just the latest in many on the topic) complaining that the playstyle suggested by the titles of the adventures is too heroic (even though only the first series was actually on as grand a scale as everyone assumes they all are).

Personally, I don't run published adventures "as is", unless I'm running them for organized play. I do use them for inspiration, though; and, would like to see more small scale adventures published. The kind I can incorporate into an ongoing campaign, as interludes and side treks.

Zardnaar

May 11, 2015 21:48:09

I think they are still figuring things out. Paio tries to have a bit of variety wih their APs, I haven't bothered buying the 5E ones after I got the Timat ones.

Devilbass

May 11, 2015 21:56:25

PotA is not a Faerun shaking adventure. It certainly has serious consequences for the Dessarin Valley and the settlements therein, but that's a pretty small region overall. It's more like the buildup to a realms shaking event, except the pcs cab stop it before it reaches critical mass. Personally, I like this approach.

#10

Grimcleaver

May 11, 2015 23:46:54

I' d be really relieved if the Temple of Elemental Evil was as toned down as people seem to be suggesting. I got the pitch from on here that crazed elemental cultists were swarming out from various temples across the Sword Coast trying to obliterate Faerun back into raw elements. That in the wake of dragon cults looting everything and followed by demons boiling out of the Underdark to R-rated murder-eat-kill everyone...that just seemed like way much. If it's more subdued than that, maybe I'll give it another look.

#11

pukunui

May 12, 2015 0:01:45

Grimcleaver wrote:

#12

RagoSteel

May 12, 2015 0:56:03

Have DM's falling so low that they need pre-made epic adventures? Make your own! Stop complaining about silly product they are releasing, they already destroyed the realms in 4th edition, they can't do much more to it..... EXCEPT lead you down a dirty hole with you favorite misunderstood hippie dark elf ranger who will likely be horribly misrepresented by thousands of DMs, to fight off another invasion of dirty demons which are super genius immortal creatures of absolute evil that heroic players will reap like farmers reaping wheat. I cry myself to sleep thinking about the state of the Game on days that end in Z. I once saw a balor 2nd edition....I died two rounds later, and I wasn't angry about it.

I do have the books personally and I use them more for lore and background. I do agree to many earth shattering events make me think of "the incredibles" movie when the hero is complaining about having to constantly save folks, seriously I just cleaned the world five minutes ago! But until they start releasing new Box sets like the days of old with actual useful stuff like Maps and back ground the silly little adventures are all we got (for the realms).

If your tired of super players (because power creep is a real problem in D&D), play monsters using thier actual intelligence, like wererats that run away instead of standing around to be mowed down by that level 2 fighter with a +5 str and +5 weapons (this actually really annoyed my players that a third of them got away, which was good).

Better yet, start digging up and converting your old 2nd edition stuff to 5th edition, its not too hard. Its better fun while we wait for more worthwhile product lines.

#13

JohnLynch

May 12, 2015 1:00:54

When you simplify any adventure it eventually comes down to "big bad guy is trying to destroy the world!'

Spoilers for the Paizo APs:

Show

Rise of the Runelords: Big Bad is trying to escape and take over the world.

Curse of the Crimson throne: Big Bad is trying to escape and take over the city (and then the world)

Second Darkness: Drow are trying to destroy the world.

Legacy of Fire: Big Bad trying to be awakened to destroy the world.

Council of Thieves: I don't know what happened here. But it certainly involved the end of the city (we never finished this one).

Kingmaker: Big Bad trying to take over your kingdom.

Serpent's Skull: Big Bad trying to be put together again and destroy the world.

Carrion Crown: Big Bad trying to be broken free and take over the world.

#14

XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek

May 12, 2015 2:48:40

Grimcleaver wrote:

#15

BoldItalic

May 12, 2015 3:01:19

All the nasties do seem to be targetting FR exclusively. It's as if they resent the way it has been rebuilt by WotC after they went to all that trouble to destroy it last time. Still, it does leave all the other parts of the multiverse free for us to do what we like with. My homebrew campaign doesn't have these problems.

#16

Grimcleaver

May 12, 2015 3:26:33

It's not that I so much need the prefab adventures. I've been running two games a week for a while now just fine, one in Planescape, one a complete top to bottom original setting. It's that I want to support the new edition and apart from the core books (I bought them all) and the on-demand Player's Guide (will have it any day now) and the dice masters game and the minis (which I totally buy too) these hardcover adventures are my best way of doing that. But I've been bothered by some stuff that really I didn't totally put my finger on until I was filling out this last survey--and thought I'd voice it again here. Now that said, I think some of these products might merit another look, I may have judged them too harshly from their synopses. But making my own adventures and settings ain't a problem, it'd really about sharing feedback to hopefully better the product. 2e is still pretty cool. I love Skills and Powers.

#17

Finieous

May 12, 2015 7:48:37

Devilbass wrote:

(Reply to #17)

Devilbass

Finieous wrote:

#19

Brightmantle

May 12, 2015 8:33:56

"Princes of the Minor Annoyance"

#20

Finieous

May 12, 2015 8:45:24

Princes of Elemental Inconvenience

#21

SirAntoine

May 12, 2015 9:50:16

I hear you, but I think they should make the most of the iconic D&D monsters and villains. Pathfinder, for instance, can't do that (nor anyone else), and it's obviously way cool so Wizards should exploit it. If only they could write the adventures edition-neutral, that would be great.

#22

Mechatarrasque

May 12, 2015 10:02:18

My only complaint is the overuse of the cult theme--surely there is at least one evil cabal of wizards in the FR? I will admit that PotA gives some very interesting cultist NPC classes and magical gear.

I hope most of the cultist have been killed off/transformed into something else by the time the PC's get to the underdark for Out of the Abyss, so the low level fights can be more demon centered.

#23

Omnilicious

May 12, 2015 11:10:59

I've solved part of the problem by placing the adventure in Eberron.

I've created a new problem by placing the adventures in Eberron.

#24

BoldItalic

May 12, 2015 11:34:12

Portmanteau title for all the 5e adventures so far:

#25

pukunui

May 12, 2015 12:25:27

SirAntoine wrote:

#26

BRJN

May 12, 2015 14:24:36

Mechatarrasque wrote:

#27

pukunui

May 12, 2015 15:17:34

The Red Wizards featured quite prominently in three of the playtest adventures (Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle, Scourge of the Sword Coast, and Dead in Thay).

Also, a member of the Arcane Brotherhood is one of the three primary antagonists in Legacy of the Crystal Shard.

#28

SirAntoine

May 12, 2015 16:11:23

pukunui wrote:

#29

pukunui

May 12, 2015 16:15:23

SirAntoine wrote:

#30

SirAntoine

May 12, 2015 16:31:53

pukunui wrote:

#31

pukunui

May 12, 2015 16:51:47

SirAntoine wrote:

#32

arnwolf666

May 12, 2015 16:54:35

My main problem with the adventures is that I want them to take you all they way to 20th level (at least 19th level). They really changed the way levels 13 to 20 are played and I think it should be easier for them to write for those levels.

#33

SirAntoine

May 12, 2015 16:55:56

pukunui wrote:

#34

pukunui

May 12, 2015 17:06:01

SirAntoine wrote:

(Reply to #32)

RagoSteel

arnwolf666 wrote: