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| #1ZardnaarJul 29, 2015 4:48:29 | The following is a brief look at the major settings and their influence on D&D from 1E through to 5E. For the most part I will only look at the major settings as TSR produced a lot of boxed sets such as Kara Tur that were never really that popular relative to the other settings.
In the beginning of D&D there was no campaign setting at all. Gygax's world of Greyhawk was not published until 1983 and the fluff in the AD&D 1E books was somewhat generic. In the early to mid 80’s though several setting turned up. In addition to Greyhawk for AD&D, D&D had the Known World (Mystara). Both Greyhawk and Mystara more or less grew organically via things like adventures and Dragon Magazine. This changed in 1984 or so as Dragonlance was under development since around 1982. Dragonlance was really the 1st D&D campaign setting designed for D&D as a complete setting and DL Adventures was released as a hardcover book for 1E.
Now TSR was never really well run and it almost went bankrupt at least 3 times the 3rd time resulted in the WoTC buyout. At the end of 1985 Gary Gygax left the company for a variety of reasons. One result of this was that Greyhawk became sidelined and Dragonlance novels started to become more and more popular. By the time TSR eventually went bankrupt the TSR novel section was actually making money. D&D started to fade with AD&D proving the more popular of the systems and with D&D fading so did Mystara’s popularity. In 1987 TSR released the Grey box for the Forgotten Relams.
Over the next few years Forgotten Realms became more and more popular and started to eclipse Dragonlance. At the time Dragonlance had a popular novel line but IMHO it has always had problems being a world for the gamer due to the metaplot War of the Lance being solved by the Heroes of the Lance. In1989 a novel The Halflings Gem came out containing a certain Drow Ranger. Drizzt was originally meant to be a side kick but proved to be very popular. In 1989 2E was also launched. Ironically the 1st campaign setting for 2E was actually Spelljammer which was D&D adventures in space. The default worlds of Spelljammer as such was Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, and Dragonlance despite none of them being available as a 2E product at the time. 1990 saw the Forgotten Realms Adventures book come out.
Early 2E was a little odd as the 1E core rule books were actually reprinted along with the Temple of Elemental Evil after 2E had landed. This was unique in D&Ds history. 1991 saw the release of Darksun and 1993 finally saw the release of The Forgotten Realms boxed set. Other settings such as Darksun 1991), Ravenloft (1992), Dragonlance 2E (1992), Greyhawk (1993) and Planescape (1994) were also released along with Birthright, Al Qadim, and Mystara also saw an AD&D update. By 1994 production values were also getting absurd with Planescape in particular having lavish artwork and production values, the Mystara boxed sets were shipped with interactive CD based adventures and the revised Darksun Boxed Set shipped with a cloth map, the original Darksun had a spirial bound flip top adventure in it.
All of these extras however came at a cost. Internal problems at TSR lead to things such as game designers not talking to the accountants who did not communicate with management. Apparently Planescape in particular was being sold at a loss while a less popular setting such as Al Qadim with modest production values was actually making money. This still paled in comparison to things such as Dragon Dice with 1 million sets ordered (70 000 sold). TSR was bleeding money to the tune of almost 3 million a year average between 1985 and 1995. From most accounts the point of no return was reached around 1994 however as early 2E seemed to be quite profitable. TSR had high revenue of 40 million per year (higher than 1983’s golden age) but was bleeding money. TSR was in debt to the tune of 27 million when WotC bought them in 1997.
In addition to some really bad business decisions the settings were actually a major problem. They were splitting their own player base as Darksun players for example may not like Forgotten Realms players who did not play Ravenloft. Attempts to revive Mystara, Greyhawk and Dragonlance more or less failed and Dragonlance in particular took a major hit with Krynn shattering events and a move to the SAGA rules system instead of AD&D. A recurring Dragonlance problem is that it makes a better world for nnovels than as a D&D gameworld. Lisa Stevens (now with Paizo) looked at the figures and WoTC made a hard decision. All the campaign settings were axed after the WotC buyout with the exception of the Forgotten Realms which saw several titles released between1997 and 2000. Forgotten Realms material and novels were simply outselling the other D&D worlds.
The late 90’s also saw a slight revival of Greyhawk with new Greyhawk material being released in a limited amount and the decision was made to use some of the GH pantheon as the core deities in 3.0. 1999 also saw D&D’s silver anniversary and the Return to series being made as a last hurrah to AD&D. 2000 saw 3.0 being released and the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting came out in 2001. At the time the FRCS had some of the highest production values ever seen in a D&D/RPG book and it was sold for twice the price of the 3.0 PHB- $40 vs $20. The 3.0 PHB was printed in such numbers they were able to sell it in 2000 at the 1989 price of the 2E PHB.
During 3E’s run Eberron was released in 2004 after a call went out in 2002 for fans to submit ideas for a new campaign setting. Dragonlance and Ravenloft were also produced under licence however so they were not totally dead unlike every other TSR era setting. Elements of Spelljammer and Planescape did manage to sneak their way into various 3E books as well. The 3E era ended and the 4E era was around the corner. The release of 4E was not exactly met with universal acclaim however and the fanbase splintered. Paizo released Pathfinder and supported it with their campaign setting of Golarion. There is a reason Golarion is the only Pathfinder campaign world and it is reminiscent of early FR and Mystara- Lisa saw what happened when you supported multiple worlds.
4E AFAIK it was planned to release a campaign setting every year. In concept I thought this was a great idea. Each setting would be somewhat stand alone with no tie in novels. This solved one of the big problems TSR tended to have with their worlds as each one seemed to get a cycle of novels and adventures to go along with it. A side effect of this strategy was however they were not making FR books which had been the most popular D&D setting probably since the late 980’s or early 90’s at the earliest. And the 4E FR did not seem to be well received and the Sundering seems to be removing most of the changes 4E made except the timeline jump. By 2010 5E was being discussed and design started the following year.
And this leads us to 5E. There is a reason FR is the default setting and the results of the last survey have made that clear. Dragonlance, Greyhawk and Spelljammer are 2nd tier settings. Greyhawk support has been minimal since the mid 1980’s and Dragonlance went into decline in the late 80’s/early 1990’s before falling off a cliff in the mid 1990’s. It is a bit of a surprise Spelljammer is there with them though as I would have thought some other setting would have been more popular than Spelljammer. This leaves Eberron, Darksun, Ravenloft, and Planescape as the major settings and one can make some good guesses what the 5 settings WotC will focus on. It seems there is only room for 1 major generic setting which is bad news for Greyhawk/Dragonlance/Mystara/Nerath. None of the other popular setting+Spelljammer are generic D&D and 3 of them had lavish production values and the other is Ravenloft. All of the those setting have their own mechanics tied to those worlds such as the mists of Ravenloft, defiling on Darksun, Dragonmarks on Eberron, and planar keys for Planescape. All of them are not generic D&D as such which is probably why they are popular.
Planescape was the only popular setting that has not seen an update of some sort in the last 15 years. No surprise there Planescape always seems to do well on polls for popular campaign settings. You are a berk if you bet against Planescape in D&D polls. With the last large influx of new D&D players last occurring in 2000-2001 no surprise the older D&D settings did not prove to be very popular. And then you have things like Birthright, Al Qadim, Mystara, Kara Tur etc which seemed to have gotten very little love.
So that’s it a very brief look at the last 30 odd years of D&D settings. Yes I missed a few but there are a lot of them quite a few that are obscure. Others like Birthright have never really been that popular even at the time of their release relative to other settings. And in that survey the settings I voted for? Greyhawk, Mystara, Darksun, Spelljammer,FR and Dark Sun. Settings I do not like? Dragonlance, Ravenloft and Kara Tur. |
| #2BeambardJul 29, 2015 8:28:55 | Great post! I was a big Birthright fan but it never seemed to gain much traction among players. Still have a lot of fond memories though. |
| #3edwin_suJul 29, 2015 11:50:13 |
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| #4arnwolf666Jul 29, 2015 13:01:55 | I really think the way settings are marketed needs to change. I think combiniing an adventure path with the setting is essential in the same book would work. I could be wrong. It's just a good guess. Each adventure path could focus on a different setting. And I think for the most part they should look to create new settings instead of pissing off grognards by doing something they don't like. Personally I love planescape, hated the faction war, see they pissed me off with those changes.
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| #5DwarfslayerJul 29, 2015 13:08:22 |
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| #6arnwolf666Jul 29, 2015 13:25:19 | I liked planescape, but I really think Ravenloft was the most popular for a while. I think it briefly beat FR. |
| (Reply to #3)The_White_Sorcerer |
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| #8sleypyJul 29, 2015 14:04:49 |
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| #42dmgorgonAug 01, 2015 19:24:32 |
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| #43dmgorgonAug 01, 2015 19:27:31 |
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| #44dmgorgonAug 01, 2015 19:30:39 |
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| #45pauln6Aug 02, 2015 3:41:18 | I think what Paizo was doing with Dungeon and Dragon is the best way to keep world settings alive. Set an adventure path and one-offs in particular settings and you please the fan base. Make it easy to set in a different world and you please the agnostics. Have a good mix of game worlds, one-offs, and adventure paths of different lengths to broaden appeal.
Supplement with articles in Dragon detailing backgrounds, feats, religions, detail on locations etc from different worlds and you get more people buying for that one article they really want.
Large scale supplements tend to start competing with each other. You need a starting pont but after that, drip-feeding is better IMO. |
| (Reply to #9)wolf3179 |
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| #47ZardnaarAug 02, 2015 22:21:31 |
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| #48DwarfslayerAug 03, 2015 3:27:16 |
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| #49ZardnaarAug 03, 2015 3:51:34 |
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| #50HebitsuikazaAug 03, 2015 4:00:10 |
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| #51ZardnaarAug 03, 2015 4:11:24 |
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| #52MecheonAug 03, 2015 5:39:41 | Golarion doesn't work logically as a world where cultures have developed. There, I said it. It feels more like they've placed them down which... I guess kind of works for a Mystara feel, thinking about it
It reminds me of the good ol' favourite The Only Fantasy World Map You Will Ever Need, except trying to take itself seriously |
| (Reply to #46)arnwolf666 |
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| (Reply to #52)arnwolf666 |
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| #55DwarfslayerAug 03, 2015 11:52:44 |
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| (Reply to #55)Zardnaar |
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| (Reply to #22)scottdprt | I think the poll was a bit bias, but a poll such as this is not very scientific so the margin of error could be large. I played/DM.wrote for both Living Greyhawk and Greyhawk Reborn campaigns. Considering the fans who continue to loyally play Greyhawk in my area leads me to believe it is under-represented in the poll numbers.
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| #58ShasarakAug 03, 2015 18:11:21 |
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| (Reply to #58)arnwolf666 |
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| #60ShasarakAug 04, 2015 12:37:14 |
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| (Reply to #60)arnwolf666 |
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| #62DwarfslayerAug 04, 2015 15:08:52 |
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| #63BluenoseAug 05, 2015 9:36:22 |
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| #64ZardnaarAug 05, 2015 11:08:31 |
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| #65ShasarakAug 05, 2015 11:39:04 |
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| (Reply to #43)jlacus |
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| #67LuisCarlos17fAug 06, 2015 13:15:21 | * Dragonlance is very cool for the novels, but too rigid for roleplaying. the story can´t be changed by the PCs.... but what if the chrononauts and the alternative timelines could be allowed like canon?
* Ravenloft is D&D for adults, but that isn´t not bad... only to avoid to be a "Jurasik Park" of undead like the "World of Darkness" by White Wolf Publishing when there were too many monsters. Be careful about "crusade againts undead" or "investigating murders" all time.
* If Hasbro wants a line of D&D toys, Spelljammer is perfect, and maybe Eberron, but it is too arcanepunk. My suggestion is to recover the main alien races from d20 Future for Spelljammer.
* I miss Greyhawk... but how to continue the world after creator's death, without betraying the original essence? That would be like to add flying ships to the Lord of the Rings. You can do it, but it isn´t the original spirit.
* Birthright is perfect for strategy videogames (with stronghold sieges and mass battles)... or a HBO serie like "Game of Thrones", but it would needs a really good story. Do you remember the last seasons of "Heroes"?
* Kara-Tur may be a great hook for otakus, sorry, I mean fans of anime and manga. Maybe it needs the right factions, like the samurai clans from "Legend of Five Dragons". The gods of Kara-Tur may be those factions.
* Planescape was.... very exotic, and that is good for people who want different things. Let's say it is like the indy comics.
* Dark Sun, this hyrborean-punk setting is a true classic. It was like to mix "John Carter, lord of Mars", "Mad Max" with D&D. It is an too interesting setting to be fogorten.
* Mystara... maybe it needs it own videogame, but a good videogame. Why not to call to capcom?
* An option could to use some setting like demi-spin-off of FR, for example an adventure about FR PCs visiting Greyhawk and Mystara.
* A trouble for the older settings is to add the new things, like races, classes, monsters... there aren't orcs in Dragonlance, nor githyanki in Birthright, neither dragoborns in Ravenloft.
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| (Reply to #67)The_White_Sorcerer |
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| (Reply to #68)LuisCarlos17f |
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| (Reply to #68)arnwolf666 |
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| #71HebitsuikazaAug 06, 2015 16:41:40 |
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| #72arnwolf666Aug 06, 2015 17:24:26 | That's a taste thing. I like human only games that are very pulp Sword and Sorcery. Give me Conan, Lieber, Lovercraft, and Moorecock. That said D&D does need diversity. I would kill for a Steampunk, Urban Arcana, and Space settings for D&D. SO yeah, I would like some diversity, but their will still be a strong need for a classical setting. It really ticks me off that as much as I like Dresden Files that the rpg just sucks real bad for my taste. |
| #73LuisCarlos17fAug 07, 2015 10:16:11 | I don´t like only human fantasy. I would rather exotic PC races... and even I start to think the sharminds may be cool if I use my own background (for example souls with psionic powers who craft living constructs to come back from death).
* Dragonlance is cool to read the novels, but horrible for roleplaying, by the "young Indiana Jones" effect, because you can watch the main actions, but you aren´t allowed to change the History.
* I feel a strange mixture of emotions... I would like the D&D worlds to keep existing, adding years in the timeline, but without changes too radicals like the spellplague or the new age of Dragonlance. |
| #74scythebladexAug 07, 2015 11:15:43 | I've always loved the settings in regards to the books, but whenever I play an actual game of D&D (especially when I am DMing), I have always used custom-made settings, heavily inspired by the other settings and their content, but in a unique world.
In that regard, I suppose I have always followed settings like Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Planescape, and Spelljammer (as well as combining other things into it like "d20 Modern", "Star Wars Roleplaying Game", or "BESM d20" when appropriate or looking for something new). Unique worlds with Warforged player characters, Forgotten Realms deities, and modron march invasions.
I always feel like I have to step on pins and needles to stay true to the setting every time I have tried to make a Forgotten Realms setting game take off, and making my own world one city at a time as the players explore is just makes it feel like they can do more and really make it their own. I let the players come up with their backgrounds, their cities of origin, and through that the players even help build the world, and I make it a point to include those places in their background whenever possible so they can expand and become dynamic.
I read through an adventure module like Hoard of the Dragon Queen, and instead of thinking "I can't wait to see the party defend Greenest", I say "This is a great idea for a dragon attack, I would love to adapt this to my campaign" etc.
So in a way, I have always looked forward to the supplements coming out for these settings, and even have fond memories of them, but never played one. Not sure if I am alone there or not. |
| #75HebitsuikazaAug 07, 2015 12:43:26 |
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| #76ankiyavonAug 07, 2015 12:52:18 |
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| (Reply to #75)arnwolf666 |
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| (Reply to #69)The_White_Sorcerer |
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| #79LuisCarlos17fAug 08, 2015 5:19:19 | * Do you think White Wold could be allowed to come back to Ravenloft?
* RPG sourcebooks are like Kre-0 building toys, you buy and choise the pieces, but after you create like you want. You haven´t to build the same way like the original box.
* About a d20 Future and d20 Superheroes, the temptation to add lot of things from famous franchises is too hard.
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| (Reply to #79)The_White_Sorcerer |
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| #81gmanjkdAug 09, 2015 12:21:07 | Ok, i have a very silly question, in regard to the White Wolf Ravenloft era. I missed most of 3.x and all of 4e. I love White Wolf durring the OWOD era (did not play NWOD) and cant think of a better steward for Ravenloft.
How did White Wolf do with the Ravenloft setting? Was as good, worse, better than the TSR 2e stuff? |