Trevor Kidd on Why the Forums Are Closing Down - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Sands666 Sep 18, 2015 20:42:44	Trevor Kidd tweets on the closing of the Wizards forums "I could hop onto all the forums having this discussion or I can say it here and let it disseminate. I'm choosing the former. Moving away from running our own forums doesn't mean we think longer conversations or fan sites/forums aren't good or necessary. They are both good & necessary. From what I'm seeing, they flourish and you enjoy them more when they are run/managed by fans. "#DnD & RPGs in general are all about story telling & talking with friends. It makes sense that we want to share those stories. So, it's vital that we have places to share those experiences & stories, like forums & fansites. But it's not vital that #dnd run those. "Closing our forums does not in any way lessen our interactions. We'll still be talking & lurking in your social media & fan sites. And the idea that forums are going away because #dnd &/or magic are doing poorly - that's ludicrous! :P Both are doing very, very well. "We'll still be talking with you here, and elsewhere. Enjoy your new forum homes and don't forget to migrate your treasured content! "On the topic of losing forum content - it's tough, I agree. Once we knew we were going to close the forums, we also knew we weren't going to maintain the community site indefinitely, so we opted to pull the band-aid off quickly rather than let it linger. "You have about a month and a half to save whatever you want from the forums, so the content isn't dying, but it is up to you to move it."
#2 Sands666 Sep 19, 2015 1:47:06	In other words, "party is not over folks, but you can't stay here". Sorry to be a little bitter, but it seems like the forums are shutting down just because they don't feel like maintaining them. Nnot happy that we won't have these forums anymore.
#3 Thunaer Sep 19, 2015 0:17:47	To me it gives the impresion that they are winding down and closing up show
#4 Brock_Landers Sep 19, 2015 1:03:19	Thunaer wrote:
#5 Thunaer Sep 19, 2015 1:32:45	Brock_Landers wrote:
#6 Brock_Landers Sep 19, 2015 1:38:48	Thunaer wrote:
#7 Sands666 Sep 19, 2015 1:45:19	Lets shut down the forums because we're lazy and rationalize it being due to the social media evolution... and then mention the value of having forums... that OTHER people can create... yeah, you guys can do it, you guys create the forums so we don't have to! woo hoo! Stupid... Lazy.. So annoying I just hate it ... BOO. The reasoning for shutting down is not a good one. They're just hiding the truth. Focking laziness.
#8 Zardnaar Sep 19, 2015 2:56:00	They took away myDragon and Dungeon, then they took away mah 3.5 and now they are taking mah forums.
#9 Brock_Landers Sep 19, 2015 3:15:35	Zardnaar wrote:
#10 CCS Sep 19, 2015 10:13:07	I don't see why anyone is surprised/upset/etc. . A) No matter how many words they dress it up with its just simple cost cutting. They've simply decided to stop spending $ on this effort. It's a marketing plan that's come to an end.... B) It's WoTC + digital efforts. Have you ever seen that work out well? It's a miracle that these forums lasted as long as they did & worked as well as they did.....
#11 Brock_Landers Sep 19, 2015 10:22:30	CCS wrote:
(Reply to #11) CCS	Brock_Landers wrote:
#13 Brock_Landers Sep 19, 2015 15:07:41	CCS wrote:
#14 shadowknave Sep 19, 2015 15:35:56	Why don't they archive these forums? Even if they shut them down, they could keep the content available. Then we would have to worry about migrating our "treasured content" elsewhere.
#15 Sands666 Sep 19, 2015 21:00:00	They've always had forums around. People seem to create forums very easily too. Is it really that expensive? Are they going to lay the guy off who moderates? That would be pretty cheap.
#16 Brock_Landers Sep 19, 2015 21:58:51	Sands666 wrote:
(Reply to #15) Corwin77	Sands666 wrote:
#18 Noon Sep 20, 2015 0:57:21	Honest tweets: "We work hard to sound very reasonable. Just sound reasonable, mind you. Not be, for goodness sake!" "But honestly whatever people want and working out some sort of compromise with that, we don't give a crap. We just want to sound reasonable, that's all!"
(Reply to #18) Sands666	Noon wrote:
#20 Orethalion Sep 20, 2015 7:02:27	Corwin77 wrote:
#21 Brock_Landers Sep 20, 2015 7:18:27	Orethalion wrote:
#22 Mistwell Sep 20, 2015 7:30:43	Thunaer wrote:
#23 Macv12 Sep 20, 2015 8:24:30	Oh, that was Korean by the way, those spam things. Can't remember what they were about though. I think they were talking about sports game scores or something, but I might be mixing them up with something else.
#24 Rhenny Sep 20, 2015 10:16:34	I think they are doing what's right for them, but it may not seem right for the fan base that visits the forums, especially in the short-term. In essence, they are saying that other fan sites do what this forum does so why be redundant. In a way, this site and ENWorld (for example) are competing for our time, and now WoTC thrown in the towel, which might, in the long run, make it easier for fans to communicate in a more unified and inclusive forum. Overall, ENWorld does a pretty good job covering the RPG industry, and I've found it a welcoming, and sometimes rich place to discuss and share ideas or resources. Change is tough, but it may not be so bad over the long haul.
#25 RCanine Sep 20, 2015 12:50:42	Sands666 wrote:
#26 Noon Sep 20, 2015 21:31:28	RCanine wrote:
#27 Sands666 Sep 20, 2015 22:54:28	I bet you that people here would be willing to moderate these forums for free if you asked for volunteers.
#28 RCanine Sep 21, 2015 1:53:26	Noon wrote:
#29 Grazel Sep 21, 2015 3:21:29	Sands666 wrote:
#30 Mommy_was_an_Orc Sep 21, 2015 7:21:41	RCanine wrote:
#31 LupusRegalis Sep 21, 2015 8:33:23	Web comics have forums, despite many of them just barely breaking even if that. Other RPG game companies not doing near as well as WotC have forums for their products. RPG focused sites for simply playing the games are mostly Forum based. Whatever the internal reasons might be, cost and effort are not valid reasons for WotC to close the forums dedicated to their own Product. Especially given how large a part the community played in the 5.0 Playtest itself. I would counter Trevor Kidd's claim that it isn't necessary for WotC to run its own forum with a simple, Hell Yes it is! This is where fans naturally gravitate to when looking for WotC interaction. When I became more active in 2009 after being away from D&D for some time, this is where I started. This is where I look for good advice, or discussion on D&D's articles or latest news. I wouldn't have known ENWorld from any other website back then, because I learned of it through these forums. That address at the top, Community.wizards.com, lends legitamacy that other sites are lacking. To be honest, I seriously doubt we'll see much in the way of interaction outside of Tweets and the occasional facebook comment, anyway. The WotC Staff doesn't exactly have a great history of involving themselves with their Community outside of Surveys and Tweets.
#32 Mistwell Sep 21, 2015 13:45:23	LupusRegalis wrote:
(Reply to #32) shadowknave	Mistwell wrote:
(Reply to #26) shadowknave	Noon wrote:
#35 Sands666 Sep 21, 2015 15:56:42	Hmm... you know, I don't care what the reason for the forum shut down is anymore, I'm just really disappointed with it. It's making fans unhappy. They have had pleanty of surveys about what the fans want. Not with this though. They just told us its done, the end.
(Reply to #35) BRJN	Sands666 wrote:
#37 Grazel Sep 21, 2015 18:16:47	Sands666 wrote:
(Reply to #17) DoctorBadWolf	Corwin77 wrote:
#39 sirkaikillah11 Sep 21, 2015 20:42:16	People have been migrating away from here for decades. The other few guys I game with that follow any D&D forum haven't been here for years. I guess I could se this coming, so I'm not that upset.
#40 Sands666 Sep 22, 2015 23:28:59	BRJN wrote:
#41 Noon Sep 24, 2015 16:53:53	RCanine wrote:
#42 Noon Sep 24, 2015 17:02:10	shadowknave wrote:
#43 RCanine Sep 24, 2015 21:32:50	Noon wrote:
(Reply to #42) shadowknave	Noon wrote:
#45 Donald Sep 25, 2015 17:46:27	Spending money to keep the customer base involved with your products shouldn't be seen a wasting money. Answering questions so the customer doesn't stop buying your products because of frustration isn't squandering resources.
#46 Grazel Sep 25, 2015 20:47:42	Actually even private companies if they're not classified as a non-profit are expected to produce a profit. If they do not do so over a period of time the IRS can shut them down for being a "tax shelter". They just don't have pressure from share holders who likely only care about a RoI on their stock via dividends and share value, and not any of the actual business at all. Advertising is an operational cost that's deemed to have a purpose, but for the bean counters they may not see a forum as the same thing. We've no proof that they're shutting down over costs and every indication it's a marketing re-strategizing probably from a marketing "expert" who's not familiar with forums and their use within gaming (tabletop, board, video, etc.). Most modern marketing consultants are very very focused on social media and tablets and make grand claims that desktop/laptop viewing of websites, and websites in general are in decline, sort of the way they claim consoles and phones are where everyone games and that PC gaming is dead.
#47 Sands666 Sep 27, 2015 13:56:22	shadowknave wrote:
(Reply to #47) shadowknave	Sands666 wrote:
(Reply to #3) moonbeast	Thunaer wrote:
#50 Dougan_Axehammer Sep 28, 2015 10:35:18	Making a profit is not an immoral choice; nor is it a moral choice. Making a profit is simply a business choice. It pays for their bills, pays for their employees, pays their stockholders, and pays for growth. To make a profit one must sell enough product to overcome costs. That is driven by marketing. For whatever resason, WotC feels that maintaining forums that are available elsewhere is redundant, and therefore doesn't fall into their marketing strategy. But they will still be active in other areas of social media (such as Facebook and Twitter) and they'll still have a presence on ENWorld, so they will still be part of the gaming community. We "knew" for quite sometime now that the WotC community has outlived itself, so there is really no surprise that the forums are shutting down. Saying that it is "immoral" to shut the forums down is just petty whining and posturing. Yes, it is sad the forums are closing. But they are closing. It isn't personal, it's just business.
(Reply to #49) PlzBreakMyCampaign	moonbeast wrote:
#52 Mistwell Sep 29, 2015 23:00:05	PlzBreakMyCampaign wrote:
#53 Brock_Landers Sep 29, 2015 23:48:50	Mistwell wrote:
#54 ObiBudKenobi Sep 30, 2015 22:25:24	Wow. Haven't been able to game in over a decade because of military servce and then family responsibilities. I finally get all that squared away, and find my way back to the forums for some tips and direction with the new edition, and see that these lazy WoC SOBs decided to pull the plug on the boards citing some BS rationale that equivocates to basically a budget cutting decision! As a veteran, I know BS when I smell it being shoveled my way, and their explanation has me in hip waders! "You guys do a better job - at doing our job in organization of venue for rules interpretation and game design - so, we're gonna go ahead shut down on our end and collect on that while you guys provide us with that cost free analysis of our marketing strategies and design." So ... Lumberg-esque. Then they say they'll be lurking in the other social media venues!? WHAT ... like an ex that stalks you after the relationship is over? Following you everywhere you go. Only now that ex will interject ... intermittently ... in random venues ... in a vain attemt to stay relevant. Yep, gonna have to go load up some Death Star now I'm so peeved! You guys have really let me... well, it just sucks. Period. Well, for those interested, there is 46 hours left on a KICKSTARTER FANTASY TREASURE CHEST project with a smoking hot treasure chest for fantasy coins or whatever. I put link below. Have fun these last few weeks ... as I doubt I'll be returning. The project ends on Oct. 2nd!! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fantasycoinhq/fantasy-treasure-chest/posts/1367640 - See more at: http://community.wizards.com/content/blog/4258411#sthash.rPaTweZm.dpuf

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Sands666

Sep 18, 2015 20:42:44

Trevor Kidd tweets on the closing of the Wizards forums

"I could hop onto all the forums having this discussion or I can say it here and let it disseminate. I'm choosing the former. Moving away from running our own forums doesn't mean we think longer conversations or fan sites/forums aren't good or necessary. They are both good & necessary. From what I'm seeing, they flourish and you enjoy them more when they are run/managed by fans.

"#DnD & RPGs in general are all about story telling & talking with friends. It makes sense that we want to share those stories. So, it's vital that we have places to share those experiences & stories, like forums & fansites. But it's not vital that #dnd run those.

"Closing our forums does not in any way lessen our interactions. We'll still be talking & lurking in your social media & fan sites. And the idea that forums are going away because #dnd &/or magic are doing poorly - that's ludicrous! :P Both are doing very, very well.

"We'll still be talking with you here, and elsewhere. Enjoy your new forum homes and don't forget to migrate your treasured content!

"On the topic of losing forum content - it's tough, I agree. Once we knew we were going to close the forums, we also knew we weren't going to maintain the community site indefinitely, so we opted to pull the band-aid off quickly rather than let it linger.

"You have about a month and a half to save whatever you want from the forums, so the content isn't dying, but it is up to you to move it."

Sands666

Sep 19, 2015 1:47:06

In other words, "party is not over folks, but you can't stay here". Sorry to be a little bitter, but it seems like the forums are shutting down just because they don't feel like maintaining them. Nnot happy that we won't have these forums anymore.

Thunaer

Sep 19, 2015 0:17:47

To me it gives the impresion that they are winding down and closing up show

Brock_Landers

Sep 19, 2015 1:03:19

Thunaer wrote:

Thunaer

Sep 19, 2015 1:32:45

Brock_Landers wrote:

Brock_Landers

Sep 19, 2015 1:38:48

Thunaer wrote:

Sands666

Sep 19, 2015 1:45:19

Lets shut down the forums because we're lazy and rationalize it being due to the social media evolution... and then mention the value of having forums... that OTHER people can create... yeah, you guys can do it, you guys create the forums so we don't have to! woo hoo! Stupid... Lazy.. So annoying I just hate it ... BOO. The reasoning for shutting down is not a good one. They're just hiding the truth. Focking laziness.

Zardnaar

Sep 19, 2015 2:56:00

They took away myDragon and Dungeon, then they took away mah 3.5 and now they are taking mah forums.

Brock_Landers

Sep 19, 2015 3:15:35

Zardnaar wrote:

#10

CCS

Sep 19, 2015 10:13:07

I don't see why anyone is surprised/upset/etc.

A) No matter how many words they dress it up with its just simple cost cutting. They've simply decided to stop spending $ on this effort. It's a marketing plan that's come to an end....

B) It's WoTC + digital efforts. Have you ever seen that work out well? It's a miracle that these forums lasted as long as they did & worked as well as they did.....

#11

Brock_Landers

Sep 19, 2015 10:22:30

CCS wrote:

(Reply to #11)

CCS

Brock_Landers wrote:

#13

Brock_Landers

Sep 19, 2015 15:07:41

CCS wrote:

#14

shadowknave

Sep 19, 2015 15:35:56

Why don't they archive these forums? Even if they shut them down, they could keep the content available. Then we would have to worry about migrating our "treasured content" elsewhere.

#15

Sands666

Sep 19, 2015 21:00:00

They've always had forums around. People seem to create forums very easily too. Is it really that expensive? Are they going to lay the guy off who moderates? That would be pretty cheap.

#16

Brock_Landers

Sep 19, 2015 21:58:51

Sands666 wrote:

(Reply to #15)

Corwin77

Sands666 wrote:

#18

Noon

Sep 20, 2015 0:57:21

Honest tweets:

"We work hard to sound very reasonable. Just sound reasonable, mind you. Not be, for goodness sake!"

"But honestly whatever people want and working out some sort of compromise with that, we don't give a crap. We just want to sound reasonable, that's all!"

(Reply to #18)

Sands666

Noon wrote:

#20

Orethalion

Sep 20, 2015 7:02:27

Corwin77 wrote:

#21

Brock_Landers

Sep 20, 2015 7:18:27

Orethalion wrote:

#22

Mistwell

Sep 20, 2015 7:30:43

Thunaer wrote:

#23

Macv12

Sep 20, 2015 8:24:30

Oh, that was Korean by the way, those spam things. Can't remember what they were about though. I think they were talking about sports game scores or something, but I might be mixing them up with something else.

#24

Rhenny

Sep 20, 2015 10:16:34

I think they are doing what's right for them, but it may not seem right for the fan base that visits the forums, especially in the short-term.

In essence, they are saying that other fan sites do what this forum does so why be redundant. In a way, this site and ENWorld (for example) are competing for our time, and now WoTC thrown in the towel, which might, in the long run, make it easier for fans to communicate in a more unified and inclusive forum.

Overall, ENWorld does a pretty good job covering the RPG industry, and I've found it a welcoming, and sometimes rich place to discuss and share ideas or resources.

Change is tough, but it may not be so bad over the long haul.

#25

RCanine

Sep 20, 2015 12:50:42

Sands666 wrote:

#26

Noon

Sep 20, 2015 21:31:28

RCanine wrote:

#27

Sands666

Sep 20, 2015 22:54:28

I bet you that people here would be willing to moderate these forums for free if you asked for volunteers.

#28

RCanine

Sep 21, 2015 1:53:26

Noon wrote:

#29

Grazel

Sep 21, 2015 3:21:29

Sands666 wrote:

#30

Mommy_was_an_Orc

Sep 21, 2015 7:21:41

RCanine wrote:

#31

LupusRegalis

Sep 21, 2015 8:33:23

Web comics have forums, despite many of them just barely breaking even if that.

Other RPG game companies not doing near as well as WotC have forums for their products.

RPG focused sites for simply playing the games are mostly Forum based.

Whatever the internal reasons might be, cost and effort are not valid reasons for WotC to close the forums dedicated to their own Product. Especially given how large a part the community played in the 5.0 Playtest itself. I would counter Trevor Kidd's claim that it isn't necessary for WotC to run its own forum with a simple, Hell Yes it is! This is where fans naturally gravitate to when looking for WotC interaction. When I became more active in 2009 after being away from D&D for some time, this is where I started. This is where I look for good advice, or discussion on D&D's articles or latest news. I wouldn't have known ENWorld from any other website back then, because I learned of it through these forums. That address at the top, Community.wizards.com, lends legitamacy that other sites are lacking.

To be honest, I seriously doubt we'll see much in the way of interaction outside of Tweets and the occasional facebook comment, anyway. The WotC Staff doesn't exactly have a great history of involving themselves with their Community outside of Surveys and Tweets.

#32

Mistwell

Sep 21, 2015 13:45:23

LupusRegalis wrote:

(Reply to #32)

shadowknave

Mistwell wrote:

(Reply to #26)

shadowknave

Noon wrote:

#35

Sands666

Sep 21, 2015 15:56:42

Hmm... you know, I don't care what the reason for the forum shut down is anymore, I'm just really disappointed with it. It's making fans unhappy. They have had pleanty of surveys about what the fans want. Not with this though. They just told us its done, the end.

(Reply to #35)

BRJN

Sands666 wrote:

#37

Grazel

Sep 21, 2015 18:16:47

Sands666 wrote:

(Reply to #17)

DoctorBadWolf

Corwin77 wrote:

#39

sirkaikillah11

Sep 21, 2015 20:42:16

People have been migrating away from here for decades. The other few guys I game with that follow any D&D forum haven't been here for years. I guess I could se this coming, so I'm not that upset.

#40

Sands666

Sep 22, 2015 23:28:59

BRJN wrote:

#41

Noon

Sep 24, 2015 16:53:53

RCanine wrote:

#42

Noon

Sep 24, 2015 17:02:10

shadowknave wrote:

#43

RCanine

Sep 24, 2015 21:32:50

Noon wrote:

(Reply to #42)

shadowknave

Noon wrote:

#45

Donald

Sep 25, 2015 17:46:27

Spending money to keep the customer base involved with your products shouldn't be seen a wasting money. Answering questions so the customer doesn't stop buying your products because of frustration isn't squandering resources.

#46

Grazel

Sep 25, 2015 20:47:42

Actually even private companies if they're not classified as a non-profit are expected to produce a profit. If they do not do so over a period of time the IRS can shut them down for being a "tax shelter". They just don't have pressure from share holders who likely only care about a RoI on their stock via dividends and share value, and not any of the actual business at all.

Advertising is an operational cost that's deemed to have a purpose, but for the bean counters they may not see a forum as the same thing. We've no proof that they're shutting down over costs and every indication it's a marketing re-strategizing probably from a marketing "expert" who's not familiar with forums and their use within gaming (tabletop, board, video, etc.). Most modern marketing consultants are very very focused on social media and tablets and make grand claims that desktop/laptop viewing of websites, and websites in general are in decline, sort of the way they claim consoles and phones are where everyone games and that PC gaming is dead.

#47

Sands666

Sep 27, 2015 13:56:22

shadowknave wrote:

(Reply to #47)

shadowknave

Sands666 wrote:

(Reply to #3)

moonbeast

Thunaer wrote:

#50

Dougan_Axehammer

Sep 28, 2015 10:35:18

Making a profit is not an immoral choice; nor is it a moral choice. Making a profit is simply a business choice. It pays for their bills, pays for their employees, pays their stockholders, and pays for growth.

To make a profit one must sell enough product to overcome costs. That is driven by marketing.

For whatever resason, WotC feels that maintaining forums that are available elsewhere is redundant, and therefore doesn't fall into their marketing strategy. But they will still be active in other areas of social media (such as Facebook and Twitter) and they'll still have a presence on ENWorld, so they will still be part of the gaming community.

We "knew" for quite sometime now that the WotC community has outlived itself, so there is really no surprise that the forums are shutting down. Saying that it is "immoral" to shut the forums down is just petty whining and posturing.

Yes, it is sad the forums are closing. But they are closing.

It isn't personal, it's just business.

(Reply to #49)

PlzBreakMyCampaign

moonbeast wrote:

#52

Mistwell

Sep 29, 2015 23:00:05

PlzBreakMyCampaign wrote:

#53

Brock_Landers

Sep 29, 2015 23:48:50

Mistwell wrote:

#54

ObiBudKenobi

Sep 30, 2015 22:25:24

Wow. Haven't been able to game in over a decade because of military servce and then family responsibilities. I finally get all that squared away, and find my way back to the forums for some tips and direction with the new edition, and see that these lazy WoC SOBs decided to pull the plug on the boards citing some BS rationale that equivocates to basically a budget cutting decision! As a veteran, I know BS when I smell it being shoveled my way, and their explanation has me in hip waders!

"You guys do a better job - at doing our job in organization of venue for rules interpretation and game design - so, we're gonna go ahead shut down on our end and collect on that while you guys provide us with that cost free analysis of our marketing strategies and design." So ... Lumberg-esque.

Then they say they'll be lurking in the other social media venues!? WHAT ... like an ex that stalks you after the relationship is over? Following you everywhere you go. Only now that ex will interject ... intermittently ... in random venues ... in a vain attemt to stay relevant.

Yep, gonna have to go load up some Death Star now I'm so peeved! You guys have really let me... well, it just sucks. Period.

Well, for those interested, there is 46 hours left on a KICKSTARTER FANTASY TREASURE CHEST project with a smoking hot treasure chest for fantasy coins or whatever. I put link below. Have fun these last few weeks ... as I doubt I'll be returning.

The project ends on Oct. 2nd!!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fantasycoinhq/fantasy-treasure-chest/posts/1367640 - See more at: http://community.wizards.com/content/blog/4258411#sthash.rPaTweZm.dpuf