Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Zardnaar Mar 05, 2015 9:56:24	Last night we were playing the Bad Moon Rising adventure and it was the 1st time I have seen a PC play a Sorcerer in 5E. Now I am not a fan of the haste spell as I find it kind of a weak spell. All of the PCs were 5th level.    THe Sorcerer though she cast a twinned haste using sorcerery points and this was one of the 1st combats at level 5. They were fighitng 3 werewolves and an NPC they knew was a fiend that was pretnding to be helpful. The fiend was a hag and she jumped on the PC as well once 2/3 werewolves were dead.     She hasted the Paladin and a bladelock (ftr1/Warlock4) None of the PCs had a magic weapon but the bladelocks weapon counts as magical and she has eldritch blast, the sorcer and cleric had spells, the Paladin used a moon beam spell on the Lycanthropes.   With 3 attacks each (3d6+4, 2d6+4) it did not take to long for the werewolves to die and the Paladin lacking a magic weapon went and beat on the hag and novaed off on here for 72 damage. Another reason they wanted haste was the AC boost vs Lycanthrope bites although only 1 PC got bitten and passed the save.    Anyway the spell was great in this situation. Haste not so much but a twinned haste was great. The Paladin also felt useful as well as the bladelock deals more damage than he does, is better at range, has more hit points in effect as well and just seemed better in most cases although with a 20 charisma the Green Paladin at level 6 and 7 is going to come online.     So has anyone else here used a twin haste spell or a Sorcerer in general? Her cha bonus to damage has not switched on yet either but the Sorcerer seems like a good class compared with wizard and warlock anyway although said sorcerer did read a guide on Sorcerer spells to take. And what are peoples opinions on haste (untwinned) in general?
#2 mellored Mar 05, 2015 10:02:30	That's what the sorcerer does.   Less spells, but uses each one more effectivly.  Lot's of big moments.  But will burn out quickly too.
#3 Istbor Mar 05, 2015 10:06:25	There is a sorcerer in both of my groups currently.  One being the Dragonblood and the other had chosen the wild mage.   Both seem pretty handy though the Dragonblood sorc is more...reliably handy, not because of random wild sureges( which are pretty hilarious so far, without turning our gritty world into a comedy) but because the Dragonblood is simply beefier. More HP better AC.  He can wade into combat far easier and does not have to worry about fireballing his own team due to RNG. (Heh, wild mage did KO himself with that already, but to balence teh scales he has also cast a 5th lvl magic missle while level 3 and summoned a Unicorn during a mini-boss fight. Sigh)   The meta magic is super useful for both. Twinning or quickening a spell can really add that extra needed burst.   I like them.  And, if I ever get a chance to play as a player in the near future it will certainly be one of my choices for a character.
#4 Zardnaar Mar 05, 2015 10:08:41	Istbor wrote:
#5 Farmer42 Mar 05, 2015 11:46:44	The Sorcerer is one of the best buff characters in the game with judicious metamagic, but they don't have the same kind of staying power as a wizard or the raw damage potential of a warlock.  And, yeah, the dragon origin sorc is beefy as hell.  Same average HP as a warlock, better AC, and has a bit more in the tank to improve those.
#6 feartheminotaur Mar 05, 2015 12:21:55	I love playing the sorcerer and metamagic is a big part why.  Twinned haste, greater invisibility, enhanced ability....and it even works on multiclass character's other spells (hex, guidance...).  Not as big on the twinned damage spells like eyebite or disintegration; the SP cost does get prohibitive after a while.  It is however, easily my favorite of the metamagics
#7 DaveDash Mar 05, 2015 21:42:20	I played a 17th level Sorcerer last night and hated it. There was never enough time to bother with haste, metamagic went on killing the legendary creature as fast as possible. It had swallowed the Barb so every round of damage counted. Sure 120-150DPR was nice but I was quite often left looking at my pathetic spell list going "I have nothing I can do to help our party member in trouble, I wish I was a Wizard" Their spell selection at the top end is their biggest let down.
(Reply to #7) grendel111111	DaveDash wrote:
(Reply to #8) DaveDash	grendel111111 wrote:
#10 FrogReaver Mar 05, 2015 23:11:27	Twinned haste is good.  Haste by itself is a waste IMO.  Compare using firebolt on a bonus action cast and another primary cast with twin spell.  That's 3 firebolts coming out for the same number of sorcery points and no spells slots.  Even at level 5 that's like 6d10 damage.  33 average damage.  Haste would take two turns to get 4d6 (8.33 with reroll 1's and 2's) + 8 damage at that level.  22 -24.6666 average damage.  Considering that damage now is better than damage later I think you'll find that option pretty comparable and it keeps spell slots....   But can you imagine twinned polymorph at level 7?  Say hello to your two banned t-rexes of doom instead of just 1.... Or twinspell greater invisiblity......   There's alot of goodies to twin spell between level 2 and 4 and haste is one of them.
#11 grendel111111 Mar 05, 2015 23:47:32	I find that I use a lot of my SP on my cantrips. in the example above you need to come out doing at least the same as a 3rd level spell as that is what you will trade in to get the 3 SP when you run out. I will often choose to make that swap. The thing is always assessing the current combat, and the level that you are play at really does change up what options are best.   At 5th level you can do the above 6d10 fire bolt (or 6d12 poison spray) or if you have 2 fighters (or pallies, or rangers etc) in your party you can haste both of them adding 2 attacks to each of them (say 1d8+3 each) for 28 aditional points the first round (not taking to hit into account as you didn't above). And being the gift that keeps giving they can keep doing that extra damage each round for the next minute while you fire off 3 canrips each round after that.  Note this should be used when you are expecting the combat to last more than 1 round.   Haste by itself needs a very good target, which is why the sorcerer is about the only spell caster I would bother taking it with.
(Reply to #11) FrogReaver	grendel111111 wrote:
(Reply to #12) grendel111111	FrogReaver wrote:
#14 Zardnaar Mar 06, 2015 1:58:15	DaveDash wrote:
(Reply to #14) DaveDash	Zardnaar wrote:
#16 durntaur Mar 06, 2015 15:54:02	Zardnaar wrote:
#17 Zardnaar Mar 06, 2015 15:58:33	durntaur wrote:
#18 durntaur Mar 06, 2015 16:12:41	Zardnaar wrote: