Oooh! Minotaurs! I'm so excited!
Link here.
Can we get pdf's of the UA that wasn't as a pdf, also the trinkets and things? It makes it easier to store on my iPad when I take it to a game store.
Hmm . . . three flex stats. That's a first.
It's also interesting they mention 'ribbons'. These Unearthed Arcana are a peak behind the curtain. Even though I don't think like a designer I kinda like that peak now and then.
I'm excited to see the minotaur in 5e because they played a part in our 4e games. And, swashbucklers are always nice 
.
This article will definitely see some use in our games.
I'm a bit iffy on the mariner fighting style. Swim and climb speeds seem like they'd be enough without the AC bonus.
IMO:
Minotaur: 1d10 no-handed weapon means your probably going to run with a shield, though it lacks any keywords for feats, TWF, monk's martial arts, or sneak attack. Meaning it comes out to a +1 damage for most cases. I'd rather have darkvision or extra con. There might be some builds that can make use of the free hand, (thief with a large amount of ball bearing? eldrich knight with a strict DM?) but i havn't seen it yet.
Edit: Grappler could definatly use an extra hand.
Fighting style: Marier: While nice benifits, you pretty much will only take this if your 2-handed and Dex based, and then you probably want archery or TWF style. That said, it makes a great second option if you get a second fighting style. Or for more exploration focused games.
Swashbuckler: Support for a charisma rogue, including a taunt, that begging for abuse. (at-will charm isn't bad either). Remember to add your expertise. At the very least, they need limit it to having 1 person taunt you at a time.
Storm sorcerer: Extra spells are nice, and bonus damage is good, except the melee range keeps it from being too useful. Note that heart of the storm requires casting a spell, so no doubling for call lighting. Flight is old-hat by the time your level 18, but at lest it will save you a slot.
Wow, nice.
Not big on Minotaurs, though they seem well-designed, but the fighting style and archetypes are sweet. I'm actually in the midst of planning something pirate-y and these are absolutely a godsend. Love the Storm Sorc especially, since they seemed kind of thin on archetypes (not everyone wants to be a dragon or fireball their friends).
danyc wrote:
Wow! Looks really great!
Yeah. I love it. Don't care about minotaurs but the fighting style and subclasses were some stuff I've been looking forward to.
ChrisCarlson wrote:
They need a parrot familiar.
Unearthed Arrr!cana
Rowan_Whispercloak wrote:
Slight issue on the minotaur: "you are never unarmed" conflicts with the way monk unarmed strikes work. Otherwise it seems fine.
We've seen three flex stats before: Shifters from the Eberron UA were +Dex, with a choice of +Str (longtooth), +Dex (cliffwalk, longstride, razorclaw), +Wis (wildhunt), or +Con (gorebrute).
Regarding Mariner: I'd seriously consider switching it to unarmored and slow down the climb speed. As it stands, it's basically Defense for anyone who doesn't use heavy armor, and it comes with a swim speed and a climb speed to boot; a multiclass character or Champion fighter can wear medium armor, pick Defense and Mariner, and have +2 AC as well as a swim speed (so far, unique in the game) and a climb speed (so far, only seen on cliffwalk shifters, for one minute between short rests). By limiting it to no armor, you prevent it stacking with Defense, and the main reason you'd consider it is for the mobility. By reducing the climb speed slightly, you don't step on cliffwalk shifters' toes (as they don't get anything besides that climb speed) - while any mariner can climb, shifting cliffwalk shifters are faster.
Note that it doesn't do anything for stamina, nor for how long you hold your breath. Which means, surprisingly, that dwarves, rock gnomes, and warforged make amazing mariners.
Swashbucklers - well, can anyone be surprised that this is a rogue archetype? I think we all saw it coming. As for its specific abilities, check within.
Fancy Footwork is nice and simple and does a lot to encourage attacking on the move, which is central to many swashbuckler stories - but you get something similar using Cunning Action: Disengage, which you'd typically want to use in advance of any movement at all (and thus, you'd only use Fancy Footwork if you started inside someone's reach). Even then, Cunning Action: Disengage doesn't rely on you hitting your target to work, and Cunning Action works on every foe you move past, not just the one you'll hit (since rogue's lack Extra Attack). All this does, really, is it frees up your bonus action on rounds where you hit your foe in melee, but the rest of the archetype doesn't add anything new to the list of bonus actions available to you. It does make TWFing a bit more useful (since that second weapon is a second target, or a second chance to trigger Fancy Footwork as well as Sneak Attack), so it's not a total wash. It's just a little narrow in scope, especially compared to Fast Hands or Mage Hand Ledgermain (Assassinate is also rather narrowly focused, but it also synergizes with plenty of other things.)
Toujours l'Audace (which I think is incorrect: it means "always audacity", but I think they meant to say "always audacious" or "always daring", which would be "Osant Toujours". My French is rusty though; correct me if I'm wrong) is one hell of an ability, as it's the single biggest boost to Initiative you can find with only a 3 level investment. (Compare: Jack of All Trades (level 3, bonus of +1 to +3), Remarkable Athlete (Level 7, +1 to +3), and Feral Instinct (level 7, Advantage); the only other continuous (non-spell) Initiative boost I know of is the Alert feat). On its own, I like it, but I can see it sending a lot of ripples through the multiclassing metagame. (Appropriate ones, though - for instance, bard (valor) / rogue (swashbuckler) is a natural pairing and you'd expect this kind of character to be quick on their feet.)
Panache I find really cool - it combines an old "goad" effect with a seduction effect, using exactly the same mechanics in different contexts. I don't particularly like its combat implementation, though - saying "you cannot do this" is different from imposing conditions that make "this" less appealing. My suggestion: That creature has disadvantage on attack rolls against creatures other than you until it successfully hits you with a melee attack, you're further than 60 feet away from it, or 1 minute passes. (The assumption is that if you want to use it up close, you use Cunning Action: Dodge to give its attacks against you disadvantage. It also doesn't care about melee weapon or melee spell, just melee.) This taunts the creature into trying to attack you up close, which results in the same behaviour but with less ham-fisted rules governing that behaviour. Panache also needs testing to see if spamming it is a problem, both in and out of combat (remember that a rogue can easily get Expertise in Persuasion, and swashbucklers really favor Charisma; in combat, they can continue to use Panache while on the move or on the defensive because of the Dash or Dodge (describe it as a parry) Cunning Action abilities.).
(My suggestion on spamming it is actually not an arbitrary one-at-a-time limit - it's just to give disadvantage on your Persuasion check if you already have someone under the influence of that function of Panache (goad or seduce). A high-level swashbuckler with maxed out Charisma and Expertise in Persuasion can easily charm an entire tavern, but once his rival kicks in the door, the swashbuckler is at a disadvantage keeping everyone's affection on him while he tosses out taunts. Meanwhile, in combat, he's got a problem keeping his rival and his rival's goons all focused on him at once, but he absolutely excels at keeping a single target frustrated and annoyed. He can even exploit a break in the fighting and chandelier-swinging to give a barmaid a rose from his teeth.)
Elegant Maneuver is nice and simple and effective, and it actually dovetails well with Reliable Talent from rogue 11. Depending on the campaign, I can see it seeing a lot of use.
Master Duelist is odd - is that "reroll a missed attack with advantage, i.e. roll d20, see that it misses, then roll 2d20 and take the highest"? - and it seems to me to be the weakest of the four rogue 17ths. I'd be more inclined to switch it over to a classic swashbuckler ability, the deadly riposte - you can use your reaction when someone misses you in melee to make a melee attack against them with advantage. The same logic as an opportunity attack, but one that you want to expose yourself to, especially given how sneak attack works and the taunting nature of the swashbuckler.
Please play-test these and make them official in the next AL season. I love minotaurs (Yeah, Kaz!) and swashbuckling high-seas pirate adventures and it would fit the AL format (Sign on with a ship for a voyage... adventure, adventure, adventure...) dock in a new port city and sign up for the next ship on the next adventure. Pirate assaults, mutiny, dangerous cargo, spies and intrigue and dirty deeds...
These are miles better than those poor eberon UA guys.
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
mellored wrote:
mellored wrote:
I will enjoy playtesting this in my current campaign. 
Time to make my favorite minotaur cleric, Sacred Cow.
iserith wrote:
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
I like Stormwind's version of Panache.
I might be wrong, but I think the storm sorcerer might be the first one to have a conjure X spell. I wonder if that is a sign (along with the extra spells) of things to come.....
Mechatarrasque wrote:
Mechatarrasque wrote:
I take back all my grumbling about added material. This stuff I love. I somehow convinced my wife to play D&D recently and she wanted to be an (ex-)pirate. Taken at the age of 10 and forced into the pirate life, her natural agility and good eyesight (she's a rakasta - an anthropomorphic cat) led her to be used in the crow's nest.
It already fits the Mariner fighting-style and rakasta fight with two metal claws and that would work with Swashbuckler. She has a 17 Dexterity and I was reading off the feats that grant a +1 Dexterity only got as far as Athlete and she said, "that's what I want my character to be like" Athlete grants full climbing speed but so does Mariner.
There is a ton of flavor behind the descriptions, as well. So using the pirate-type rules would be, as a DM, limited to players who described their players like this. Flavor first, and then mechanics to back it up.
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
guachi wrote:
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
mellored wrote:
* About minotaur... I don´t like the racial trait about horns. It isn´t about gameplay, but about storytelling. I don´t imagine minotaurs using the horns time after time. Horns can be very cool, and very useful for quadrupeds, but not for a biped humanoid. Have you imagined a minotaurs using his horns to attack little humanoids like goblins or kobolds?
Once I imagine a incarnum souldmeld for minotaurs, where the horns were in the fists to be used like magic knives, or a special "chakra" to load a ray spell.Yes, it is a mad idea, rays from horns.
* I imagine the swashbuclker like the 3.5 warblade, with poses and a list of "maneuvers". My opinion is that for marketing reasons, swashbuckler would be a better name for the warblade from "Tome of Magic: book of nine swords".
For those wanting a parrot familiar, I recommend reskinning the raven. Comes with Mimicry 
As for mariner's AC bonus, keep in mind that you are sacrificing both heavy armor and shields for the benefit.
SterlingRat wrote:
danyc wrote:
"A 40' chasm separates the PCs from their foes. The ogre is 10 feet away from the chasm. There's a bridge 30 feet to the ogre's left, and the rogue is standing 10 feet to the ogre's right (but across the chasm, standing on the edge of it). Quick math: The entrance to the bridge is 56 feet away from us, and the ogre is currently 51 feet away from us."
Whether the Ogre can ever reach the rogue depends on whether you assess if the Ogres move is legal when it is completed, or in 1 square/5' increments. I would lean towards the former myself, but your preference may vary.
And if it is the former, the Ogre with a 40' move speed can take the Dash action, reach and cross the bridge, and end the turn about 32' away from the Rogue, closer than the starting 51'.
If not, it chucks a rock at him, or stuffs rags in it's ears so it can't be affected again and takes the Dodge action for 10 rounds to try to survive the kiting,
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
DemoMonkey wrote:
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Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
mellored wrote:
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
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While I like the content in theme and in theory, in particulars it strikes me as being even less polished than most of the other UA content we've had.
For instance, I'm pleased to see the presence of a medium-sized playable minotaur race - there was one in 4e, and I was hoping we'd see one in 5e*. However, I feel like it is too heavily focused on its horns. 1d10 damage also seems like a lot, considering that they're only medium size. Compare that to the 2d8 damage that the large minotaurs in the MM deal. I like the inclusion of the racial bonds, though. That's a nice touch. It'd be nice to see, say, a Dragon+ article that offers up some racial bonds for the PHB classes.
I'm with those who say the Mariner fighting style is a little too good. I like the swim + climb speed benefit, but the +1 to AC on top of that seems a bit much. Also, I wonder if it would've made more sense to make this a feat so it can grant some other benefits, like proficiency with water vehicles and a +1 to Dex or Str. To make it a more complete package of nautical abilities.
The swashbuckler as a roguish archetype makes sense. However, let's not forget the battlemaster fighter. I think it might've made sense for the swashbuckler to grant the rogue access to some battlemaster maneuvers. I agree that Panache is too good. It's even better than the completely magical Compelled Duel spell! Also: if you were to give a swashbuckler PC the Mobility feat, then Fancy Footwork becomes completely redundant. I can't think of any other feats that render a class ability completely useless, although I could be wrong about that.
I don't really have any thoughts on the storm sorcerer at this time, though I like their thinking behind the "ribbons".
All in all, I look forward to being able to provide some feedback on these options in an upcoming survey!
*For the longest time, I was against allowing monstrous races to be played in my campaigns (be it an Orc in D&D or a Gamorrean in Star Wars), mainly because I felt it would be too disruptive. During the playtest period, I finally came 'round to the idea that maybe it wouldn't be so bad after all, only to learn that the devs weren't going to include even basic stats for playing monstrous races in 5e like they did with 4e. 
pukunui wrote:
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
mellored wrote:
pukunui wrote:
mellored wrote:
I think here and there it needs some further polishing, but it's already promising. I guess if a player becomes interested in playing one of these, I will look over it a bit.
For example: I think Mariner style might be OK with half climb/move speed (rounded up), which doesn't make them really faster than others, but still be able to get a whole lot of benefits (like being able to attack without disadvantage underwater or the fact, that they don't need rolls at all, even if it's difficult for others).
The swashbuckler seems to be OK overall, only Panache seems a bit overly strong, especially within a class with Expertise and Cunning Action to get away (even though it's language dependent). Maybe concentrating on a out-of-combat benefit would be better.
Would most likely give the proficiency bonus to Toujours l’Audace instead of charisma for several reasons.
Sorcerous origins these days let me think of adding bonus spells for Draconic and Wild Magic myself. And here I think, it's a tad too combat focused, even though it's not that bad.
Not too much of a fan so far with the minotaurs. Interesting, but somehow a bit... too focused on doing their horn thing.
I also had a player point out that heavy armours do not impose disadvantage. Being the helpful DM that I am I directed said player to the section of the phb that says the DM can apply advantage and disadvantage as they believe the situation warrants it. This is common sense as there is no way one rule can cover all possible situations.
If my friend gets a 5e game going as planned I wanted to be a sorcerer. However, I was going to go with a storm/weather theme because it's much easier to make a spell list that fits that than either the Dragon or Wild magic subclasses. So I am really happy to see they made the storm variant, it fits my concept perfectly.
I think Unearthed Arcana is one of the things I look forward to the most each month. I like everything I see in this one.
I have a player playing a half-minotaur already; so, I am excited to compare this with what I gave that player, and have him make any necessary updates. I will probably have to replace the seafarer minotaur traits with something more appropriate to my world though. EDIT: I would modify the Horns: paragraph as follows: remove the first sentence and change "which are a melee weapon" to "which you can use as a melee weapon attack". The first sentence interferes with certain class features; while, the second is more consistant as a "melee weapon attack", similar to entries for other natural weapons.
I don't have any problems with the Mariner fighting style; although, I agree that it would be enough without the AC benefit.
I like the swashbuckler archetype; as to the Panache ability: I do think it needs the additional caveat that the affected creature can't willingly end its movement farther away.
The Storm origin is also interesting. Indeed, it sets the precidence for incorporating bonus spells into any origin. I am pleased to see the explanation/inclusion of what they call "ribbons"; I think these types of "fluffy" rules are a great benefit to character concepts (especially as a stepping stone for creating your own "ribbins).
ah mah gahd I haven't even read the thread or the article yet but I saw Minotaurs (Krynn) and got super excited. Brb reading.
Edit: so upon reading, I agree Minotaur are underpowered. Everything has to do with horns, despite the fact that most classes won't be able to make use of them. Plus they don't scale or become magical. I don't think they're worth the stat gimp (+2 stats compared to the standard +3 that most get). I'd rather see all three abilities rolled up into one that's a bit more restricted, and then add something else, possibly releated to their gift for strategy or heightened senses.
I think the Swashbuckler looks fun, the wording is a bit sloppy. This:
mellored wrote:
Ability score increase by +1 strength is fine.
Conqueror's Virtue is interesting. +1 strength is fine. +1 wisdom is fine. However +1 int seems a bit underpowered. The only class I know of to use int is the wizard and warlock. None of the minotaur's traits really have good synergy with either class, so I would be inclined to have int boosted to +2.
Base speed is fine.
Horns are interesting. It's essentially a free +1 to AC for a non-war cleric as they can wear a shield and still have a 1d10 weapon. For fighters, paladins and war clerics it is essentially a +1 damage bonus and a +1 crit bonus to damage when wielding a shield. That's useful, but not game breaking.
Goring Rush: Charge as a racial feature. Pretty nice.
Hammering Horns: Bonus action to push someone 5 feet is nice. It's nicely nerfed against the battelmaster's pushing attack maneuver which is needed in order to balance it as a battlamaster's maneuvers are limited to a short rest ability.
Labyrinthe Recall: Nice to see!
Sea Reaver: Man! I thought my setting was unique for having minotaurs live on islands. I like it.
Languages: I'm disappointed to see Tauran isn't listed as a racial language. But otherwise all is good.
-------------------
From a mechanical standpoint I think the intelligence modifier could stand to get a +2 instead of a +1 bonus. But otherwise it all looks good to me.
However I don't like the flavour or imagery it evokes. I'm imagining someone looking to optimize will have his fighter minotaur in full plate with a shield and is attacking with their horns. Does anyone think that would look aweome? Am I the only one who would struggle to take that character seriously?
My version would be something like this:
Ability Score Increase. Your strength score increases by 1.
Conqueror's Virtue. From a young age, you focused on one of the three virtues of strength, cunning or intellect. You can either increase Strength by 1 or increase either Intelligence or Charisma by 2.
Age. Minotaurs enter adulthood at around the age of 17 and can live up to 150 years.
Alignment. Minotaurs believe in a strict code of honor, and thus tend toward law. They are loyal to the death and make implacable enemies, even as their brutal culture and disdain for weakness push them toward evil.
Size. Minotaurs typically stand well over 6 feet tall and weigh an average of 300 pounds. Your size is medium.
Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision. Minotaurs can see in low light as if it was bright light and can see in the dark up to 60 feet as if it were low light.
Goring Rush. When you use the Dash action duriung your turn, you can make a melee attack with your horns as a bonus damage. You horns deal 1d10 piercing damage.
Hammering Horns. When you use the Attack action during your turn to make a melee attack you can attempt to shove a creature with your horns as a bonus action. You have advantage for this check, however you cannot use it to knock a creature prone.
Labyrinthe Recall. You can perfectly recall any path you have traveled.
Sea Reaver. You gain proficiency with navigator's tools and vehicles (water).
Languages. You speak, read and write Common.
This allows the horns to be situationally useful (great for when you want to charge or push someone away) without becoming the default weapon for anyone with a shield.
JohnLynch wrote:
lawrencehoy wrote:
Minotaur also seems great for the shield bash feat as you get advantage on shove attempts so you can knock people prone. I had to be a valor bard to pull that off reliably and cast enhance ability.If I am reading it right the Swashbuckler can just sneak attack all of the time.
lawrencehoy wrote:
JohnLynch wrote:
Minotaurs are good grapplers. Grapple two creatures, or one creature while wearing a shield, and you can still attack them with your horns.
Stormborn20 wrote:
pukunui wrote:
I don't get the complaints about the horns either. When people start talking about how the half orc is the best wizard, I will believe they have made all races equally good for all classes. Serious, racial abilities are most important at low levels. Even the low level wizard could find horns useful after a long day--I have cast so many cantrips today I should have been a warlock. The monk is hosed a little, but that is an easy fix
It would be really cool if the horns could be both heavy and monk weapon at the same time. Minotaur monk gorger FTW !
Am I reading this right? A minotaur fighter with the shield master feat would get advantage on knocking people prone?
So now that we've got a stacking Defensive + Mariner fighting styles I wanted to explore different character builds to determine what effect it had on the game:
Full plate + shield + defensive: AC 21
Studded Leather + Dex + shield + defensive + mariner: AC 21
Half Plate + 2 Dex + Dual Wielder + defensive + mariner: AC 21
So Mariner doesn't break bounded accuracy as 21 is still the highest AC you can get without magic. The double-fighting style combo can be done through either Figher (Champion) 10 or Ranger 2/Fighter 1 or Paladin 2/Fighter 1. There's no cost to multiclassing assuming you choose Fighter after level 1.
Now if we look at some builds that are a bit more complete. All builds have a max level of 15 (which I believe is the maximum level for Princes of the Apocalypse).
STR 14+1 (7)
DEX 13 (5)
CON 15+1 (9)
INT 10 (2)
WIS 10 (2)
CHA 10 (2)
Human) Heavy Armour Master (+1 STR)
Fighter 4) +2 STR
Fighter 6) +2 STR
Fighter 8) Great Weapon Master
Fighter 12) Sentinel
Fighter 14) Resilient (+1 Dexterity)
Strength Saving Throw: +10
Constitution Saving Throw: +8
Dexterity Saving Throw: +7
Initiative: +2
AC 19 (Full plate + defensive)
Greatsword: +10/+10/+10 (2d6+5/18-20)
Zardnaar wrote:
JohnLynch wrote:
JohnLynch wrote:
Serpine wrote:
JohnLynch wrote:
Stormborn20 wrote:
I feel like the strength-based Minotaur Monk potential is epic.
The big drawback, I feel, is that Horns is basically your only racial feature, and about 1/3 of the way through your career, you'll probably ditch them for a magic weapon.
RCanine wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Grazel wrote:
Overall, I think this is my favorite UA installment thus far. Some things seem like they need to be tweaked, but, other than that, I love the direction this has gone.
Looking at the Swashbuckler it looks like it could use some work, but is otherwise not too bad.
Fancy Footwork is a very interesting option. It makes it quite easy to get a mobile fighter out of the game at the expense of the Assassin's offence (which is only relevant for one round) and potentially the Thief (any offensive ways to use Fast Hands?).
Toujours l'Audace: Although an unnecessarily difficult class feature to pronounce, Charisma to initiative is nice. For the sneak attack portion I can only interpret it as you can sneak attack when you have advantage on the attack or none of your allies are adjacent to it. Any other interpretation results in the swashbuckler always getting sneak attack.
Panache: I can see all NPCs will now have proficiency in Insight all of a sudden. I'd rather see this changed to Wisdom saving throw a Wisdom (Insight) check (creature's choice). I'm not happy with it, and I like the insight check. But either the DM metagames and gives everyone insight proficiency, or doesn't and is potentially metagaming the other way as well. I think they need to rethink this a bit. I would also change the "cannot move away" component to "If they move they must take the shortest (safest) route they're aware of".
Elegant Maneuver is pretty nice.
Master Duelist: This is pretty good, although it's the only one to need a recharge. That said I think it should be fairly balanced against the others.
All in all I like it. Pretty good for playtest material. With a bit of fine tuning this could be a good addition to the game.
I can't understand Toujours l'Audace. Since rogues can already Sneak Attack if an ally is adjacent to the target, granting them the ability to Sneak Attack if an ally isn't adjacent is a very strange way to say "You can use your Sneak Attack on any melee attack as long as you don't have disadvantage on the attack roll". If it is supposed to remove some other restriction on Sneak Attack, it isn't at all clear which ones it removes since "use Sneak Attack" is very ambigious as to which restrictions, if any, are carried over from the ability. If all the restrictions are carried over, it does nothing and is the equivelent of "you may use Sneak Attack on Tuesdays". If none of the restrictions apply a Swashbuckler can add their Sneak Attack damage to multiple attacks with a greatsword while blinded as long as none of his or her allies are adjacent to the enemy.
BTW Highest non-magic AC I'm aware of is a 20th-level Barbarian with 20 Dex, 24 Con, and a shield. 10+5(Dex)+7(Con)+2(Shield) = 24
mellored wrote:
Moribund wrote:
JohnLynch wrote:
Is having Panache end if another creature damages or casts a harmful spell on the target too much of a nerf? That's consistent with how compelled duel works. There are other spells that grant bonus saves when the subject takes damage rather than ending outright, but this isn't a magical compulsion and iterated opposed checks are unwieldy. I feel that no matter how much you insulted my mother, the guy actively stabbing me with a sword is a more pressing concern.
While I certainly understand wanting to change Panache's "must target" to Goading Attack's disadvantage against other targets, I would caution against it. Too often other sources of disadvantage, high relative attack bonuses, or access to abilities that relied on saving throws rather than attack rolls would take any incentive to actually attack the swashbuckler away.
Moribund wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
Serpine wrote:
Horns like natural weapon are too useless. To atack a smaller enemy the minotaur ought to hang the head too much. And minotaurs couldn´t wear almost any helm. I understand the horns are one of the marks of identity of the minotaur race, but I don't allow myself the suspension of disbelief too much.
* I can´t avoid it, but I imagine the swashbuckler with some pose and ki maneuver from "Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords".
LuisCarlos17f wrote:
Horned helms exsist.
Helms for horns can too.
I'll certainly limit or remove Panache from my game. If I did allow it I'd make it a magical power, that way it will still be subject to dispel magic and counterspell. I might allow it to work on certain types of humanoid creatures but that's about it. Having a non-magical power that charms and prevents a creature from running away is ridiculous IMO. It also makes me wonder if this ability was desienged to take precedent over Fear or the optional Morale rules. I'd hate to see it used on other PCs who are fearstruck. Ah, but I'm wasting my breath here, the designers don't give damn for us "only with magic" gamers.
As for the minotaur. It's nice to read about Krynn, but I didn't see any mention of the Imperial League.
dmgorgon wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
I realize this UA pdf is not an extensive handling of aquatic/waterborne adventures, but now that I've had some time to peruse the pdf I'm disappointed that merfolk aren't part of the pdf. As far as I know, merfolk exist in most D&D worlds, and the merfolk myth itself originates from things sailors have seen (well, half-seen, and possibly while half-drunk).
MechaPilot wrote:
I wrote up Sea Elves as a subrace option for our Ten Thousand Isles campaign.
Aquatic Elves are isolationists by nature, living on remote atolls or floating towns adrift on the open ocean. They have webbed hands and feet which makes them incredible swimmers. But they tend to be shy and slow to trust when it comes to the land-loving races.
Ability Score Increase. Your Constitution score increases by 1.
Weapon Training. You have proficiency with the javelin, trident, light and hand crossbows.
Hold Breath. You can hold your breath 5 times longer than normal.
Master Swimmer. While in light or no armor you gain a swim speed equal to your speed.
Serpine wrote:
It's pretty much guaranteed we will be incorporating this UA, especially these seafaring minotaurs, to our ongoing Ten Thousand Isles campaign. They fit so perfectly (especially given the pseudo-greek setting backdrop).
Not sure I ever posted the complete campaign notes/write-up (where that sea elves homebrew above came from). Here's a link to the PDF if anyone's interested.
Its fairly bare-bones. But we wanted the freedom to develop the setting as we went along, so we kept it minimalist for the most part.
Brock_Landers wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
Can a rogue minotaur use a bonus dash action to gore attack?
Azzy1974 wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
UmbraCarmen wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
Wuzzard wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
My musings on the Waterborne Unearthed Arcana:
Rather than go point by point arguing or supporting what others have posted I'll just share my thoughts and you can draw your own allegiances from them.
Minotaur: My overall impression is that it is balanced but starts off more powerful than most classes and ends up being slightly underpowered compared to some but in line with others.
It's power at the beginning comes from Horns + Hammering Horns or Goring Rush. They are always armed with a pretty decent quality weapon for low levels. What would be a 2 handed weapon to other characters. Additionally they begin the game immediately with 2 useful bonus action options. If we boil down the round to move, attack, & bonus action lets call the dash part of the goring rush the bonus action rather than vice versa, at 1-4 it's not going to be mechanically different anyway. So basically your round consists of move X2, attack, or move, attack, & shove with advantage in addition to your class benefits. Starting at 5th level these racial advantages begin to become more balanced due to the opportunity cost of extra attack, or the enhanced damage of a cantrip. Now if I want to move X2 and attack I will be doing 1 less attack but I can still use extra attack in combination with hammering horns, casters however, won't be able to similarly benefit. As we continue to progress past 5th level the damage on the horns begins to get eclipsed by magical equipment. Ultimately it won't stand up long term unless unique magical items are created dedicated to natural attacks or minotaur horns, etc... By 20th level the best feature they have is hammering horns. The Horn attack will generally not get used but will come in handy in a pinch (a campaign where you're equipment is taken away for example). The Goring Rush slightly more useful but probably no more than once or twice per combat. The hammering horns is a pretty useful bonus action that synergizes with the horns advantage to shove feature but will most likely have competition from other useful bonus actions, but will get used for sure as the fall back bonus action if you have 1 remaining at the end of your turn and have someone close enough to shove.
Fighting Style: Mariner
Apparently the most controversial piece of the Waterborne UA. I feel that it is not nearly as overpowered as others seem to believe it is. It requires that you don't have a shield equipped, which is going to be a huge penalty to anyone who is building their character around Armor Class. So the unbounded bonus is not going to be worth the loss of a shield in that mathematical equation. So then it ends up being not about maxxing out your armor class but just about getting a nice boost for someone who prefers to lean towards DPS but would like a bit more survivability as well. I do feel that it has a slight edge as compared to the Defense Fighting Style for anyone not trying to min max their Armor Class since medium armor comes 1 pt short of matching heavy armor without a feat this can shore up that difference in exchange for removing the penalty of heavy armor and giving you strategically beneficial mobility. In case my point was too rambling I'm saying that this edges out Defense slightly overall but Defense will still be used by the min maxxers who want the best possible AC, the key to that was restricting it to people without shields which was an intelligent design decision.
This got a bit long winded so I'm splitting it into 3 replies, lucky you guys!
Roguish Archetype: Swashbuckler
I would rate this slightly below average as compared to the other rogue archetypes.
Fancy footwork is a good ability and available as a feat but not having to burn a precious feat and getting this somewhat unique ability is a worthwhile tradeoff. It synergizes particularly well with a rogue who only needs to tag someone once to do the majority of their damage and the extra mobility allows them to either move out of harm's way and allow the fighter to protect them or benefit from an AOO, or it can allow them to move about unrestricted in combat ensuring that they're always where they need to be in order to benefit from sneak attacks or other positional bonuses. This also synergizes with their ability to dash as a bonus action, but sort of steps all over their ability to disengage as a bonus action, replacing it in most circumstances.
Toujours l'Audace is a decent ability. Don't get me wrong I love initiative modifiers but charisma doesn't benefit the rogue more so than another class for example, chances are you might get a +1 or +2 bonus out of this ability. Compared to the bard's jack of all trades ability they get +1 immediately and end up getting a +3 by 20th level. Honestly if the rogue could swap the bard for jack of all trades both classes would end up with higher initiatives. In Summary it is a good ability but at a costly investment. Fortunately the Swashbuckler finds other ways to incentivize and reward an investment into charisma.
Panache is a strong ability and I feel could be stronger than a lot of other classes abilities. Compare panache to the sorcerous origin: dragon bloodline level 18 capstone ability. Draconic Presence costs 5 precious sorcery points to charm a group where you can charm people all day long for free with Panache. Now compare it to the warlock ability Fey Presence. You can only use it once per short rest. Panache is situationally useful but it's not a limited resource and as opposed to giving them a saving throw you can use your ability check, which I might add if you so chose could be with expertise and could benefit from anything that enhances skill checks which are far more common than things that give disadvantage on saving throws. Now the naysayers are going to say sure sure, but in combat I can only taunt, why would a rogue want to taunt someone? It's true, you're particular build might not benefit from being thwacked on repeatedly in the face, however, I'm sure there are other people that end up with a fear ability that would much prefer a taunt, in fact this is one of the best taunts in the game. Compare it to the spell with a similar effect, a so so spell but it doesn't actually force the target to do anything, they just have penalties if they don't attack you. This actually forces them to attack you, the spell also penalizes you in that it takes up your concentration slot, this is a resourceless ability. In the right hands panache is going to be a very powerful tool, for others it will simply be that ability that I remember I had when it became useful.
Elegant Maneuver is a decent ability, it's a nice bonus but has a lot of competition with rogue bonus actions. The main benefit is as a safe guard against grappling reducing your already superior mobility in combat. It also has the potential to make you a strong grappler, on par with a barbarian or bard. Much like Panache, in the right hands this will be a key class feature. In other hands it will be that safety net to ensure that you're zipping around the battlefield and only used as needed.
Master Duelist was a bit underwhelming. Don't get me wrong you will use it for sure every short rest. My thought was that when I think about multiclassing I would much rather have something like extra attack that gives me an additional chance to hit every round as well as potentially extra damage, than a once / short rest ability that gives me an additional chance to hit with advantage. In my opinion I would like to see more high level abilities that compell me not to multiclass or at least make me feel a little remorse when I do. This is definitely not that ability as I would happily drop it for a couple dips into another class pool.
Sorcerous Origin: Stormborn
I'm a little annoyed with Wizards for their handling of sorcerous origins to date. Not more than 1 or 2 unearthed arcana ago they made a point to say that the key balancing agent for a sorceror is their limited spell selection, and in that very same document they created an origin that increases a sorcerors spells known by 66% AND gave it access to spells normally reserved for divine classes which they justified by saying, well we won't give them anything that synergizes with spell casting. Now this latest installment they break that rule as well, giving an enhanced spell selection and abilities that tie into 50% of the spells on that list as well as other optional sorceror spells.
I'm not sure what to think of it all, I feel that the stormborn origin is clearly superior to the dragon bloodline origin in every conceivable way. If you don't believe me make a dragon bloodline origin based on lightning and compare the 2. You end up with inferior flying, inferior resistance, comparable damage bonus, comparable defensive abilities and a grossly inferior spell list. After the favored soul and stormborn origins I feel that wizards owes us an enhanced spell list for the draconic bloodline origin. I will say that the wild magic origin is unique enough and has the potential to be far more devastating to either your party or the enemies that it is in a class all of it's own and I'm not sure anything could completely eclipse it. It is the gambling addicts ideal class.
That being said, I wonder if Wizards realized that they may have undertuned the sorceror a bit and are now trying to enhance it with ongoing origins, lets now talk about the Stormborn abilities in detail and see what you think:
Stormborn (ability same as the archetype name?) is an insanely nice ability. Not only does it expand your spell list by 66% but it includes some useful spells that will free up your other 15 choices such as Call Lightning and Thunderwave for triggering your abilities and useful battlefield control spells such as fog cloud and gust of wind. Finally it gives some summoning options, which are very powerful and useful spells in 5th edition. Wind based spells have historically been some of my favorite for their battlefield control but also for creative roleplaying uses.
Tempestuous magic doesn't necessarily have the same benefits as the dragonic resilience armor of the dragon bloodline origin, but it does provide a bit of useful protection for a squishy sorceror. Being able to avoid attacks of opportunity can be a godsend, and though it is limited to 10 ft, don't forget that it will often allow you to move an additional 30 ft where you might not have been able to, and later this will be an additional 60 ft. on a 1 to 1 basis I would say this is inferior to the draconic resilience but a good defensive ability in it's own right.
Heart of the Storm the exact ability that they said not to give a sorceror origin that added spells known. An ability that procs off of the spells added as well as other sorceror spells. Heart of the storm I feel is superior to elemental affinity defensively and comparable to it offensively. It allows you to do more potential damage but it is limited to creatures close to you, which hopefully there won't be any though we know more often than not there will. It can do almost twice the damage to each creature and unlike elemental affinity does not need to be used with a area of effect spell to do area of effect damage. So when you cast a single target spell you still get to do 1-10 damage to every creature around you. The benefit to elemental affinity is that you always add the damage, heart of the storm requires a more idyllic scenario to get the damage but when it happens it is almost always a higher amount of damage. For the defense, you get resistance to twice as many elements and you don't have to spend sorcery points to get it.
Storm's Guide I won't discuss for the reasons outlined by the UA.
Storm's Fury, another defensive ability that is once again inferior to draconic resilience but is a nice to have and doesn't cost you anything but a reaction. More often than not you may choose to use that reaction to cast something like shield, but given the likely metagaming scenario I can see where this is going to get more use than it probably should. The push back effect is useful and can potentially save you additional punishment in rare situations. This ability is underwhelming by itself but so far the total stormborn package more than makes up for it.
Dragon Wings vs Wind Soul. Well the only possible advantage to dragon wings is that it can be achieved at an earlier level, otherwise wind soul dominates it in every way: move twice as fast, no armor restrictions, and on top of that upgrades the already superior heart of the storm from resistance to immunity. Additionally wind soul lets you bestow your travel ability onto your adventuring party. GG Dragon Bloodline, thanks for playing!
So lets look at the 1 ability that doesn't have a comparable match from draconic bloodline. Draconic Presence: This ability is the equivilant of knowing 2 spells, oh wait, I get 9 additional spells with a stormborn, I guess that trumps this ability.
The only ability that draconic bloodline sorcerors get that is superior in any way to stormborn sorcerors is draconic resilience, hardly a substitute for much sought after expanded spell lists.
It's funny to me that everyone is up in arms over the Mariner fighting style when the real travesty in my mind is the total eclipse of the draconic bloodline.
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