Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Xeviat-DM Aug 12, 2015 12:18:32	Hi everyone! I'm one of many who do not like how the current Beast Master runs. Now, I don't entirely think it's unbalanced (as creatures like the wolf give a prone condition, and the venomous snake has killer damage), but it does feel odd to have to share actions so fully with your animal companion.
#2 Ramzour Aug 12, 2015 12:28:48	Xeviat-DM wrote:
#3 Mechatarrasque Aug 12, 2015 13:25:36	The simplest solution is, when the BM makes a melee attack, the AC attacks the same foe every round that the BM does (and likewise the AC moves when the BM does).  If the BM wants the AC to attack someone else, he/she uses his/her action to command the attack (and use it every round the AC is attacking something the BM is not).  Sure the BM gets a nice damage boost, but to get he/she has to be in melee, as opposed to sitting back in relative safety with his/her bow (and all those bow and arrow enhancing ranger spells).      I figure the archery-focused BM can have the AC hang around him/her and make OA's when someone tries to sneak up on the BM, which is pretty much what they do now in the games I have seen.  That and have the AC's carry extra quivers of arrows on custom made harnesses.
#4 Xeviat-DM Aug 12, 2015 13:36:47	Sorry about the wall of text; I thought turning off rich text would fix that.   Test   Test
#5 Xeviat-DM Aug 12, 2015 14:10:12	Ramzour, your version does correct quite a few issues I had with the existing Beast Master. I'd like to explore ways of letting the companion have its full suite of actions without treating it as an NPC, though.
#6 shintashi Aug 12, 2015 14:52:27	I think if we instead do something funny with the CR growth of Druids, and then add the "animated object" break down theory, we can instead have a beast master with a bundle of different combinations.   Point 1: Total CR by level: At 3rd level: 1/4 CR At 6th level+: 1/3rd or 1/6th your level CR, rounded down. Example: at 12th level, your maximum CR total would be 4 or 2.   Point 2: Combination of Fractions: 1/4 CR = 1 beast CR 1/4, 2 Beasts CR 1/8, or 5 Beasts CR 0 1/2 CR = 1 beast CR 1/2, 2 Beasts CR 1/4, or a combination.   A Swarm is any pile of similar CR 0 creatures you can command with a CR total of 1/4 (like Ravens) to 2 (like Snakes).   Following this method the Beast Master could have one really big animal, or several varieties of smaller animals, similar to what we expect to a Necromancer with a small army of Undead.
(Reply to #6) Xeviat-DM	shintashi wrote:
#8 Ramzour Aug 14, 2015 9:01:57	Xeviat-DM wrote:
#9 JodyJohnson Aug 14, 2015 14:04:50	My understanding of the default Beastmaster companion is that they: 1.  Have a minimum of 4hp/Ranger level (possibly more at 3rd)  - serving as a buffer vs. directed attacks or as a temporary replacement character when the ranger is dropped to 0 hp. 2.  Grant an additional possible reactions (OA) 3.  Additional detection abilities, or other utility abilities. 4.  Are nearly as durable as a weak class (low HD size, low Con bonus - probably similar to a Wizard).   Just as the Hunter has situations where it doesn't gain benefits from its damage adds, the Beastmaster has situations where the HP buffer doesn't apply (area spells or area damage). Hunter's get bonus damage, Beastmaster's can be considered to get bonus actions and bonus durability.   Some things I might consider changing: Low HD companions have less 'during a short rest' healing per day (only 1 to 3 HD) --> the Ranger can grant HD to his animal companion.  Or alternately in a small party they get HD equal to Ranger level. Allow Mutli-attack when a Ranger gives up an action, and 2 multi-attacks at 11th.  At 5th, the animal gets full attacks plus the Ranger can make one attack when the Ranger gives up the Action. If the Ranger dashes, dodges, or disengages the animal companion can use the same action for free.   General rulings that impact the Beastmaster: The action economy is for Combat resolution.  Outside of combat they can both do actions in an intuitive sense.  (The action economy only applies in encounter/combat situations). The animal can 'Ride' the Ranger if it is small or tiny.   Other pets and mounts are available through other normal sources (training, purchase, spells) which are NPCs under general Player direction/DM discretion.   As no beast have Save proficiency I would treat the 'Prof bonus to saves' element as ALL saves.
(Reply to #9) Xeviat-DM	JodyJohnson wrote:
#11 shintashi Aug 14, 2015 23:50:32	Xeviat-DM wrote:
#12 Xeviat-DM Aug 15, 2015 12:50:25	shintashi wrote:
#13 JodyJohnson Aug 17, 2015 7:12:28	At the table, I think the main issue with animal companions will be that DMs adjust combat difficulty as if the animal were another party member instead of a class ability - which ends up a net loss.   To balance Ranger with pet, maybe just use Hunter abilities and tag - "from your pet." to the end of the damage adds.  The pet has no stats of its own.   I also think the comparison suffers from Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, and GWM as written, but shifts significantly if those feats are removed from the equation.
#14 Hebitsuikaza Aug 17, 2015 9:16:29	Hmmm...   I don't know if an arguement it is well balanced because of the animals you can choose from A, B and C have powerful abilities. If animals D through Z are "wrong" choices because they don't have any remotely similar ability, then that seems to be another way in which it is badly balanced.