As we all know, the 4e Warden was supposedly folded into the 5e Paladin. In a twitter conversation with Mike Mearls, I was assured that the "new" Warden would have Guardian Forms, a central feature which formed the core flavor of the class in the previous edition. However, from what I've seen, this feature is almost entirely absent. The only semblence to them in the Warden subclass I saw was their subclass capstone feature, which you not only don't get until 20th level (when the game is effectively over), but also grants only three fixed features, and a generic bit of fluff that pretty much amounts to, "you shapeshift into something. Like, I don't know, whatever you want."
For those unaware, Guardian Forms were special daily powers the Warden could choose (similar to Barbarian rages) which produced an encounter-long polymorph effect on the Warden; in general, the character would take on characteristics of an animal, plant, or elemental totem creature, granting it such abilities as regeneration, expanded reach, damage resistance, and so on. Each Guardian Form also came with an associated encounter attack power which could be used while the Warden was in that form. In essence, the warden was a skinchanger. This is the core mechanical AND flavor aspect of the class that set it apart from all other classes, without which it would essentially just be a place-filler for "Primal Defender."
I just don't believe it is acceptable that something which is so central to the vibe of the class should be relegated to a single capstone feature, and then one which is so... bland. I think this could've been done much better, and I'm wondering if many people agree with me that they should expand on this in future books (assuming they haven't done so in the PHB, because I haven't been able to buy it yet). I think that a Paladin with the Oath of the Ancients, if it is truly to carry the mantle of the 4e Warden, should at the very least have a selection of Guardian Forms which it can assume straight away.
I think the most elegant way to accomplish this would simply be to create a series of unique spells, much like the base Paladin's Smites, which are tacked on to the Pally's spell list when a player chooses the Oath of the Ancients. For example, the following would be more appropriate to the overall flavor and style of a 4e Warden:
Form of Mountain's Thunder
1st Level Transmutation [Guardian Form]
Casting Time: Swift
Range: Self
Components: V,S,M (a small chunk of natural quartz)
Duration: 1 Minute
You undergo a physical transformation which lasts until the spell ends, or until you dismiss the effect (no action required) or fall unconscious. Your skin hardens into scale-like plates of stone, with surges of lightning dancing between and among them, and you may also take on other changes, such as growing conductive crystal structures on your body, and so on. You may only have one Guardian Form spell active at once, and if you cast another Guardian Form spell the effect of the previous spell dissipates. As long as the spell lasts, you have resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage, and a +1 bonus to AC. In addition, once per round when you hit an enemy within 5 feet of you with a weapon attack, you deal 1d6 extra thunder damage.
Once before the spell ends you may channel the spirit of mountain's thunder to perform a special Shock Pulse attack. As an action, choose any number of creatures within 5 feet of you that are touching the ground and make a magical attack against them. You release a massive shockwave of elemental power through the earth at your feet, dealing 2d6 thunder damage to each creature you hit and knocking that creature prone.
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, increase the damage dealt by the shockwave by 1d6 damage for each level above 2nd. In addition, the extra thunder damage increases to 2d6 if you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher.
Form of Oak Sentinel
2nd Level Transmutation [Guardian Form]
Casting Time: Swift
Range: Self
Components: V,S,M (a piece of bark or leaves from a 1,000+ year old Oak Tree)
Duration: 1 Minute
You undergo a physical transformation which lasts until the spell ends, or until you dismiss the effect (no action required) or fall unconscious. Your skin becomes dark and covered in thick knots and ridges, taking on the appearance of tree bark, leaves and vines sprout from your body, and your arms lengthen like tree limbs. You may only have one Guardian Form spell active at once, and if you cast another Guardian Form spell the effect of the previous spell dissipates. As long as the spell lasts, your melee reach increases by 5 feet, and you may make a weapon attack as a reaction against any creature that damages you with a melee attack.
Once before the spell ends you may channel the spirit of the Oak Sentinel to perform a special Vine Shield attack. As a reaction when an enemy within your reach makes a weapon attack against a creature other than you, you may interpose yourself between the enemy and its target by extending a mass of vines and branches like a woody shield. The enemy must make a Dexterity saving throw or suffer 2d8 bludgenoning damage. Either way, you become the target of the attack, instead of the creature it intended to strike.
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, increase the damage dealt by the shockwave by 1d8 damage for each level above 3rd.
Form of Hunting Tiger
3rd Level Transmutation [Guardian Form]
Casting Time: Swift
Range: Self
Components: V,S,M (the fang, claw, or pelt of a dire tiger)
Duration: 1 Minute
You undergo a physical transformation which lasts until the spell ends, or until you dismiss the effect (no action required) or fall unconscious. Your muscles ripple, grow, and break out with dark patterns reminescent of tiger stripes. Your eyes and ears become cat-like, and you may grow claws and fangs, or even shaggy fur across your body. You become powerful, lean, and dangerous, like a forest cat ready to pounce. You may only have one Guardian Form spell active at once, and if you cast another Guardian Form spell the effect of the previous spell dissipates. As long as the spell lasts your movement speed is doubled, and you have advantage on Dexterity saves and Wisdom (Perception) checks.
Once before the spell ends you may channel the spirit of the Hunting Tiger to perform a special Savage Pounce attack. As an action, choose one creature you can see and move up to half your speed to a space where you can make a melee attack against the target. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks. You then make an attack roll with advantage, and deal 1[W] extra damage with your attack. If both of the attack rolls you made would have hit, the extra damage is 2[W] instead.
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, increase the extra damage of your Savage Pounce attack by 1[W] for each level above 3rd.
Yeah, I was upset that rather than let us playtest and give that feedback throughout the process, they took away both the Green Knight and the Black Knight for a good deal of time, and only gave us back the Avenger at the very end; all the while not showing us the final Warden unilt release date, so we had no real way to say that we didn't want it relegated to the capstone (notice how that complaint about Bard's magical secrets got it moved to MUCH earlier).
As for your spells, I LIKE them. 
I think the elegant thing about them is that WotC can always add more spells via splatbooks, while altering the class features is a much trickier process. The thing that still feels tricky, however, is that not all Paladins should have access to these spells, but that makes it feel like you're giving special toys to just the Wardens (and they already got 2 of each spell-level in special toys). You could add some of these to the Warden subclass list, and add some more cleric-like spells to the Cavalier list and some more relevant spells to the Avenger list.
Or maybe, we could design similar spells for Cavaliers and Avengers – like say, spells that grant you a grisly or even angelic visage as an Avenger. The Aura spells, which are mostly Paladin-only, might even be the start of these.
Marandahir wrote:
I'd rather see the Warden as a spellcasting Barbarian build, and that's how I'm going to build it for my table.
That's certainly one way to do it, Xeviat-DM. I personally feel more like the Green Knight and the Warden are more akin, but right now, the Green Knight can't property represent the Warden, as Chameleon-X was saying.
I'm not opposed to feature swaps. I just think they need to be introduced with care, and I imagine the DMG will have a bit to say about taking apart and modifying the classes.
I would rather have a warden class, along with a shaman class. But with that stated, at least the paladin version has spells to expand ability. The barbarian version would still suffer from being fairly static and locked down when considering all the abilities the 4E warden has.
Cool work with the Warden forms. I, too, missed them. I like the nature paladin, but I agree that it feels like they could've done more with it. I think they ran out of time with some classes, Paladin included, and pulled the playtest plug a bit earlier than is ideal. The cool concepts are there, but they could've used a bit more tweaking.
Chameleon-X wrote:
5e left one of the coolest archetypes from 4e out of the game. The 4e Warden and Barbarian were amazing and unique takes on an old concept, and 5e realy left both of them out in the cold.
I'm in the process of brainstorming a homebrew Warden class. The class will basically be the embodiment of the 4e Primal power source and draw heavily from the 4e Warden and Barbarian, but I may also include options from the 3e totemist and dragon shaman. Still figuring it all out, but I want it to include an option for primal rages or guardian forms of some sort.
Lawolf wrote:
ClockworkNecktie wrote:
I like these a lot. Honestly, I would rather they had folded the paladin into the warden then the warden into the paladin. I could see things like "Form of the Celestial Champion" (1st level) that makes you cast a faint glow (of righteousness) and add radiant damage to your attack, or a "Form of Unrelenting Justice" for the Avenger type paladin. Your god/ideal/oath is transfiguing you into something beyond a mere mortal.
Mechagamera wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
A Barbarian Warden (or magical barbarian) would be fairly simple to build with subclasses, I think. Just model it somewhat after the Eldritch Knight.
Primal Sentinel
Level 3: Spellcasting
[Insert the Eldritch Knight's spellcasting feature, only replace Wizard spells with Druid spells, and Intelligence with Wisdom].
You also gain the following spells added to your spell list: [Insert Guardian Forms and/or Barbarian Rage powers here].
You can cast Rage Spells while you are raging.
Level 6: Defender of Nature
Once on each of your turns you may mark each creature within 5 feet of you (no action required). The mark lasts until the end of your next turn. A marked creature take -2 penalty to attack rolls against any creature other than you, and when a marked creature makes such an attack you may make a weapon attack against it as a reaction. If the creature is within 10 feet of you but not within your melee reach, you may instead extend a mass of spectral vines to ensnare them. Make a magical attack against the target; on a hit, it is pulled up to 10 feet toward you and its speed is reduced to 0 until the end of its next turn.
Level 10: Guardian's Might
Choose one of the following options:
Earthstrength: When you spend hit dice in battle, you gain temporary hit points equal to the number of hit points you regain.
Wildblood: When you spend hit dice in battle, marked creatures have disadvantage on attack rolls against any creature other than you until the end of your next turn.
Lifespirit: When you spend hit dice in battle, each ally within 20 feet of you that you can see regains half the number of hit points you regained.
Thunderborn: When you spend hit dice in battle, each enemy within 20 feet of you that you have marked takes thunder damage equal to half the hit points you regained.
Level 14: You can cast spells while raging, even if they are not Rage Spells.
Slyck314 wrote:
Slyck314 wrote:
Chameleon-X wrote:
ClockworkNecktie wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
ClockworkNecktie wrote:
Those spells are nice, but...
+1 for barbarian warden.
-1 for spell slots on the barbarian.
Lawolf wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
Slyck314 wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
tallric_kruush wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
spelley wrote:
Xeviat-DM wrote: