I see a lot of classes/sub-classes people wish were added in the initial release. Things such as Elemental Warriors, to Barbarians that have a magic sub-class to the Psionic to even Savage Bards. What are some of the classes or sub-classes you want to see?
For me, I want a Samurai, sub-class of a Fighter. Ninja, sub-class of a Rogue, and Shaman, sub-class of a Druid.
I'd like an artificer class, the one in the UA isn't too bad, but also not the real deal. Artificer should be a real class (half spell progression, but a lot of features).
I'd like to see some racial subclasses, like dwarven defender or arcane archer. Even though it isn't necessarily the best mechanism, those are at least very iconic classes. Or at least subclasses in that regard, which can be limited to these races by the DM (even though it would be cool to see class features, which enhances racial traits).
Arcane Tradition based on the Dragonlance setting, since the wizards there are more restricted by their respective order in accessable schools of magic. Would be nice to see a bit of a trade-off. Maybe the same for Red Wizards.
And then the Deathbringer as a fighter subclass, but that's too unrealistic. I just need some ideas to integrate the abilities in 5e. ;)
Artificer Class as full class. The Artificer Wizard felt like a really odd tradition for the Wizard (half of it's concept was already taken up by the School of Transmutation, and the other half by Evocation, Abjuration, and Conjuration schools). It also didn't accurately represent the Artificer of past editions who used weapons (about to the same proficiency as Bards or Hexblades; this is not a Paladin or Ranger). I don't necessarily agree that the Artificer should be a Half-class, with fighting styles and high level melee combat abilities. I think that would make the Artificer feel woefully under-equipped magically compared to the Bard. I think it sits more alongside the Bard as a full caster with a vastly different spell set from the Bard; think Cleric+Wizard, but almost everything the Bard DOESN'T DO from the Wizard list, while sharing with Bard the spells from the Cleric list.
I want a full Swordmage (and this guy does work precisely as a half-caster), and luckily I have a pretty darn good one that's been homebrewed quite a bit here on the forums that's I'm using for now. Would love to see WotC's take on the concept beyond Eldritch Knight, though.
Other than that, classes are done for me, at least until Psionics hit the scene (Psion should be it's own, Int-based class; all other Psionics should actually be subclasses or feats or such). Warden and Runepriest are the only 4e classes I don't think have yet a really good analogue; Runepriest was a really interestin Cleric+Wizard concept that is like a Divine Bard+Artificer (scholarly, rune-stuff, but also court advisor, etc). Runepriests probably could find their way into the wings of various classes like the Assassin did (Shadow Assassin as a Monk, poison assassin as a Rogue). Runepriest in that case could fit in as an archetype of Bard, Wizard, Cleric, and/or Artificer. Warden could easily become a Barbarian or Ranger archetype, and the Oath of the Ancients Paladin starts to capture some of the flavor of this class, but fails to capture the concept of the class with the elemental mantles (interestingly, these Warden mantles are now spells as of Elemental Evil Player's Guide, but unfortunately, are all like 6th-level spells, and thus can't fit on a Paladin). Since there'd be strange overlap between these spells and any Ranger or Paladin feature that's like them, I'd lean towards making a Warden subclass of the Barbarian that does elemental/natural mantles.
I also want the following subclasses: a Druid-list 1/3 caster Fighter (Keeper) and a Druid-list 1/3 caster Rogue (Scout); a Cleric-list 1/3 caster Monk (Way of the Sacred Light or something to that effect; could work something like the Way of 4 Elements, instead of being a 1/3 caster) and a Cleric-list 1/3 caster Fighter (Crusader); a Cleric-list 1/3 caster Rogue (more close to the 4e concept of the Avenger, the light-robe, wearing, hidden blade of the faith). A Mounted Knight archetype for Fighters and a Horsemaster/Rider archetype for Rangers. A Rogue archetype that uses the Maneuver mechanic (Tactician?). A martial weapons using, divination-focused Bardic College (for Virtue of Prescient players in 4e). A Vampiric bloodline Sorcerer, a Cosmic Magic Sorcerer, and a Fey Magic Sorcerer. A Darklord or Shadow Patron for Warlocks. A Sorcerer-King or Dragon Patron for Warlocks as well (Dark Sun-type Dragon, that is). A Celestial Patron for Warlocks, and an Elemental/Primordial/Genie Patron for Warlocks. A Primal Spirit/Ancestor Spirit Patron for Warlocks (kinda like some types of Shamans in 4e). A Polearms fighting style for Fighters, Paladins, and Rangers. A Moon/Night/Darkness/Sleep Domain for Clerics (which isn't evil, but instead focuses on fighting Lycanthropes or such). A martial-weapons using Monk akin to that of the Swordsage of 3.5e (Way of the Iron Heart?).
Kentus wrote:
The artificer was somewhat faithful; to the original artificer from 2E.
Classes:
1.) Psionic classes with actual concepts behind the class, not just psionic x, where x equals some non-psionic class. I've mentioned breakign things up by discipline but that's far form the only way. YOu could break it up into mentalist, kineticist, and metabolist. Or maybe You want the really old school esper-nomads as a class, the Kine' as another, the true telepaths as a third, and tell the metabolists to gob' off.
2.) A dedicated shapshifter
3.) A dedicated pet master
4.) A dedicated tactical leader
Sub-classes:
A.) Talents, people with one minor or specialized psychic power that they weave into their other class abilities. This would be the place for things like warriors who can connect to an opponnents mind while engagin in melee combat and use the info gleaned to be a right pest, or the rogue who can mask their presence ona telepathic level thus rendering all sorts of special senses and such null, or the barbarian who triggers psionic power when raging and becomes inde-freaking-structable, or someone with a minor Tk ability that learns to use it to make ranged attacks do ricochets, curved shots, and other such nastiness.
B.) Magic-item bound, people who bind to special magical items with PC appropriate abilities that scale with the character's level and abilities.
RCanine wrote:
rampant wrote:
You look for the name, the mechanics are already there for you. Eldritch Knight or Ancients Paladin with the right spell/feat selection could easily be an Elemental Warrior. Samurai? Totem Barbarian with Adept Background and the right feats. Warlord? Bard. Others have pointed this out. Artificer as Wizard is the right way to do it but needs work. Most Psionics would fit under Monk, Sorcerer, or Warlock with certain spell/feat selection. Is it going to be the X-edition version of the class? We are playing 5e, not Xe...
http://community.wizards.com/forum/product-and-general-dd-discussions/threads/4107006
Gladiator should be a "variant class", like the original from Dark Sun 2nd Ed.
Knight ought to be a complete class about legacy item, challenge bonus and order of chavalery.
Some ideas from "Magic of Incarnum" could be used for an artificier subclass and a totem-warrior.
The 5th Swashbuclker should be the 3.5 warblade, with a list of poses and "maneuvers". The manevuers are special "powers" between at-will and encounter. Poses are like "superfeat".
I imagine the hexblade with some "maneuvers" from swordsage.
Ninja, sohei and samurai would be classes with "ki maneuvers".
I like the concept of psionic ardent and favored soul to create stories about hate-love relations with the clerics and other divine spellcaster.
Shadow assasin ought to be a steatlh class with magic powers, for example the "mysteries" (powers used by the shadowmancer class from 3.5 Tome of Battle).
I imagine Wu-jen like a hybrid class, each subclass would be a different power source (arcane+divine, arcane+primal, arcane+psionic..), and shugenja would use elemental "mysteries" (the powers by Shadowmancer from 3.5 Tome of Magic.
Cofrater (=brother or member of a brotherhood) is like a psionic D&D jedi, a monk with a sword and psionic powers, without armour.
Psionic wilder... why not a crazy psionic-incarnum class?
Captain_Kobold wrote:
Psion - Strongly themed telepath and telekinetic builds that do things existing classes can't would be unique.
Psywar/Battlemind - a tough, beater class that uses telekinesis to compliment melee is would be sweet. I suppose this could be a fighter subclass but at this point i'd rather just have a whole class instead of waiting until 3rd level to begin getting a slow drip of the character concept you're looking for.
Swordmage/Swordsage - The Eldritch Knight is an ok duct-tape patch, but a lot more can be done as far as creating warrior-type classes that are loaded with spells specifically designed to work with weapon attacks and melee. Not to mention being able to do that sort of thing from level 1.
Totemist/Warden - The 3.5 class that used the souls of monsters in order to create a custom array of magical powers was super flavorful and a badass concept. I'd love to see a full totemist class, even without a convoluted incarnum system.
Artificer - the wizard subclass just wasn't enough to really capture the flavor. I'd like to see an entire class with the ability to deploy an array of magical constructs and buff items.
Summoner - there are some conjuring spells and the necro can walk around with a few zombies but there is a lot of room for a full blown summoner class that conjurs up a few creatures at a time that act as proxies for utility and combat purposes. This in no way needs to be a flexible, broken or convoluted as the Pathfinder version in order to be awesome.
RCanine wrote:
GhostStepper wrote:
I rather like the 12 classes that were picked for the core PHB. I'm a little biased, because they were the same 12 classes that I was looking to simplify the game down to when I was working on a 4E variant years ago, but still. I think they can cover a very wide range of character types, especially with the Sub-Class system and Multiclassing.
Psion is really the only class that I really want to see added. It wouldn't really fit as a Sorcerer Bloodline.
Subclasses? I want a lot. I'd really like to see a 1/3rd caster subclass on the Barbarian and Monk, but I don't think their subclasses offer enough power to fit in such a boost. The fighter's subclass (Battlemaster or Eldritch Knight) seem to hold more power than the others.
RCanine wrote:
Priest... similar to Cloistered Clerics in 3e Unearthed Arcana, a divine spellcaster who less fighter and more mage.
I wouldn't mind a shaman subclass for ranger (alternate beast master) or cleric (spirit familiar as channel divinity); aberration/demon and vampire blood lines for sorcerer; Shadowfell patron warlock (with a shadow or specter for a familiar); swarm circle druid; a pressure point using monk (spend a ki point to slow, disarm, weaken or make con saves at disadvantage when you hit with an unarmed blow); and a couple more totems for the barbarian, maybe a little more monstrocity than beast totems.
If we were doing shaman as a cleric, I would have the domain spells be:
1st: find familiar, unseen servant
3rd: animal messenger, beast sense
5th: conjure animals, spirit guardians
7th: conjure minor elementals, guardian of faith
9th: commune with nature, conjure elemental
I want to see (in no particular order):
- Enough new Cleric Domains to give a unique flavor to each of the gods, themed on each deity's traditional portfolio.
- A way to implement a Truenamer (all spells are Verbal-only) without moving all his spells to too-high spell slot levels.
- More Sorcerer bloodlines. Dragon, Elemental, Divine / Infernal, Fey, Law / Chaos Outsiders
- More Warlock patrons. (These likely copy the Sorcerer bloodlines.) Vestiges
- A Bard (or Rogue?) sub-class that will actually Warlord in practice. Eldritch Knight is a half-attempt.
- Something that can aim at Warren Buffet (Merchant / commercial empire) as his end-game state.
- Urban Ranger, maybe as a sidebar full of substitutions and ideas rather than a sub-class.
- Urban Druid, ditto.
- If ki are psionic, then Elemental Monk needs totally re-worked. A full-psi Monk path can be created.
- Psion who is not just a Wizard carrying crystals instead of wands.
- Psion telekinetics and telepathy should be separate distinct paths. No Jedi clones, please, even with multiclassing.
- If there will be a Psionic melee artist, how is it different from Fighters? from Barbarians?
- Druids that can pull from lists other than natural animals (Abyssal Druid for next AL Season? Insanity Master becomes an aberration?)
- A Summoner subclass for Wizard (preferred) or Cleric
I recognize that it will take time to get this stuff out there, done with high quality.
The archivist from "Heroes of horror" could be a wizard variant class.
A warlock subclass can be used to test pact magic.
Urban druid can be a variant class, and even I had got a name for that.
* We need a really cool name for the psychic warrior. I hate the name "battlemind".
* The idea of a summoner/pokemon trainer is interesting, but it is a challenge for game designers because then most of creatures ought be designed to be potential future "monster pets"
* I imagine the shugenja using the elemental version of the shadow mysteries from 3.5 Tome of Magic.
Barbarian
1. Dex-based TWF Tempest style build
2. Dragon rager
Bard
1. Storm caller
2. Necrodancer
3. Factotum / Red Mage style
4. Valor-style subclass that can Inspire themselves
Cleric
1. Enchanter focused (Love, mind, etc)
2. Elemental water and earth/protection
3. Rune priest / Creation domain *
Druid
1. Dagger druid
2. Alternative plane druid (shadow plane druid, elemental plane druid, Outer Planes druid)
Fighter
1. Arcane Archer
Monk
1. Updated Elemental
2. Weapon-focused
3. Psionic Fist
Paladin
1. Battlemind / Ardent (another psionic)
Ranger
1. Blue-mage-like adopting traits of slain monsters
Rogue
1. Trap specialist (or, just as likely, make more traps and tools that the Thief can use with their Cunning Action's Use an Object)
2. "Magic gunner" with hand crossbows. *
Sorcerer
1. Spirit Shaman
2. Ice and Earth elemental themed classes (Dragon for fire, Storm for wind)
3. Psion with telepath, kinetic, and other variations within the Origin
4. Celestial Sorcerer (ala 4e)
5. Not quite a subclass, but more attack spells for the Chaos Sorcerer so it works better
Warlock
1. Vestige warlock (combines "ghost stuff" with "pick your spells, invocation, and pact form")
2. Elemental Patron (genies, primordials, whatever!)
3. Not my cup of tea, but others have asked for 'celestial' patrons, preferably angels and archon focused. Invoker?
4. New Pact of the Blade with some fixes
Wizard
1. Artificer / alchemist *
2. Mystic Theurge
3. Shadow magus
* I generally don't play Eberron, so I don't want an Artificer class that takes these subclasses and doesn't give them up. Eberron, as a setting, I support having its own Artificer class; outside of that campaign, however, I don't want its own class, but do want these subclasses.
Not sure this counts but I am working on Subclass Zero. Playing the game with no subclasses and then filing down some of the base classes so I can introduce universal subclasses. Or subclasses that fit on any base class.
I, for one, hope we don't end up with a long, tedious list of countless niche subclasses, each with their own unique rules, systems, features and powers. Gawd the bloat will just end up damaging the whole core concepts of 5e and its intended longevity.
Here's to keeping 5e 5e and not trying to turn it into 3e or 4e!
Who's with me, fellas?
Hmm...
- Psion (class)
- Psychic warrior (fighter subclass)
- Cavalier (paladin and/or fighter subclass)
- Equestrian (fighting style)
- Wu Jen (wizard subclass) [I'd personally rename it "onmyouji" since all the other Asian-inspired classes default to Japanese, or at least use the Pinyin "wu ren" instead of the obsolete Wade-Giles "wu jen"]
- Shugenja (cleric subclass) [Based on the 1e OA "shukenga" (which was mis-romanized)/3e OA "shaman"]
- Shadow mage (wizard or sorcerer subclass)
- Elementalist (wizard subclass) [Maybe as the sha'ir from 2e Arabian Adventures]
The different settinbgs could use some setting-specific classes/subclasses (like, for DL, Orders of Wizardry wizard subclasses, Knights of Solomnia & Tiamat paladin subclasses), etc.).
ChrisCarlson wrote:
I think we should avoid the classic psion-psywar split on the psi-classes. It's not a good par of class concepts you see. Psion ends up being psionic wizard or sorceror and psywar ens up being psionic paladin. Psionic classes should have a real concept behind them instead of wizard with psionics and warrior with psionics.
I think there are many concepts that could really be shored up with subclasses. But there are also many concepts people "want" that really are probably more of a combination of class/subclass choice and feat selection. For example, a Samurai might be a multiclass Fighter/Monk, while a Sohei might be a Paladin/Monk.
Very few classes should be added; ideally, just Artificer and Psion, and maybe a Gish class like the Homebrew Swordmage (Eldritch Knight doesn't reflect various kinds of Swordmage). A new class should be reserved specifically for classes as broad as the 12 already introduced. I believe Psion and Artificer fit that bill, and Swordmage may well fit it to, if you consider all "arcane gish types" as the class – Duskblades, Bladesingers, Spellswords, Swordmages, Battle-Mages, Darkblades, etc. Really should have a name that doesn't have sword or blade in it; better if it could be any weapon user. Pact of the Blade and Valor Bard approach this, but the concept is a half-caster akin to Paladin and Ranger.
Artificers can fit a bunch of different kinds of technical genii in them: scroll hunters, mechanists, conjurors, battle physicians, alchemists, magic weapon and armor smiths, etc. The class really should be seen as like an Intelligent instead of Charismatic Bard – a full caster with some limited martial capabilities, and a spell set similar to both Clerics and Wizards, but different in choices from the Bard in many ways (more Conjuration, Abjuration, and Evocation, instead of the Bard's focus on Illusion, Divination, and Enchantment).
As for Psionic classes, Psion should clearly be its own class, with the various Manifestation Disciplines as different subclasses akin to Wizarding Schools or Cleric Domains; Ardents probably should be a psionic Paladin subclass, Wilder a psionic Sorcerer subclass, Battlemind/Psychic Warrior a Fighter subclass, Divine Mind a type of Cleric, Soulknife a type of Monk, etc.
Paladins are about the last people that would mesh well with empaths.
Wilder is barely a class concept as it is and the last thing that would be conducive to a well deployed psionics in 5e is reverting to psionic-x type class building.
Divine mind is also an absolute hash of a concept.
The simple thing is that psionic classes and sub-classes need to be defined by their power, their special abiltieis not trying to revive lame brained class concepts from ages past. 3.5 and 4e had great psionic mechanics but absolutely hashed class concepts for psis.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
rampant wrote:
Classes aren´t only a list of class features and powers. Each class ought to be its own mark of identity. An assasin can´t be like a rogue, nor a samurai can be a fighter. This isn´t only storytelling or gameplay, also this is marketing.
* There is a great potential to create new stories for the pact magic. The vestiges are an interesting concept.
* "Magic of incarnum" wasn´t so cool book like anothers, but some ideas could be used, for example an artificier with incarnum soulmelds in their magic item. But in 5th ed the points of essentia can´t be used for bonus attack. Other idea is a tomtem warrior, a nagual, like a reboot of the 4th primal defender the warden.
* Could the dragonfire adept (from "Magic of dragon") to be a monk subclass?
* I like the concept of a spellcaster class with "points of mutation", like a free extra monster template. Something like the prestige class "demonbinder" from 3.5 "Drows of the underdark".
* Warmage could be a sorcerer variant.
* Dread necromancer, sublcass, variant class or own class?
* I don´t like the name "witch-doctor", for the archetype of vodoo priest/shaman I sugges the names tagati or umthakathi.
* Aurispice could be the name for the urban druid,
* Belomancer could be the 4th seeker, a magic archer. (Magic arrows vs firearms?, Hmmmmm). Also the word could be "akritai"
* I like an interesting concept from dragon magazine. The aspirant is a cleric who wants to become a god himself. Something like the D&D version of the manga/anime "Noragami"
LuisCarlos17f wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Warlord.
And I mean a real warlord, not just a fighter that does some pseudo-warlord-ish kind of things, sometimes.
Hurin88 wrote:
My opinion about the warlord is it can be presented like a "variant class", when the module about skirmishes and mass battles to be published, the warlord would be a list of special class features what would replace the standard fighter. The warlord is perfect to be played with warbands miniatures games.
* When I say this is also a matter about marketing I mean the sourcebooks with base or variant classes will be sold better.
* Another of my mad ideas. why not a summoner, like pathfinder, but with a "monster pet" what use incarnum soulmelds (why not another name, for example "thymos" or "thumos"?). Or the summoned avatar would be incarnation of a vestige...
* Why not a module about "civilian" classes? I would be like a template, but without true effects in the battle.
* Classes with new game mechanics: pact binder, truenamer, shadowmancer (+ shadow assasin), incarnum totemist, warblade and swordsage.
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Diffan wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
I'm not really after any classes but some weapon styles and or feats to support other weapons better such as normal, crossbows, daggers, short swords things like that would bne nice.
Diffan wrote:
I would rather see the "additional skills module". Let your character be defined by his or her skills.
Mephi1234 wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
College of Valor Bard with the Soldier background = Warlord
Shaman is to Druid what Sorcerer is to Wizard
Prophet is to Cleric what Sorcerer is to Wizard
Psion would be a base class, than it's sub-classes would be the various kinds, such as the martial psion, the rogue like psion, the mentalist, kinetic, metabolist, etc...
Diffan wrote:
A Summoner could be able to summon a certain challenge rating worth of creatures and have certain spells/abilities that enhance their summons.
The Gnome Profesor 
and Gallant 
would be a whole lot of fun. Also the ooze druid 
and investigator 
would be very cool. 
(Bit late for this parade but anyway...)
FOR THE LOVE OF GODS, ANY WAY TO MAKE AN INTELLIGENCE BASED HEALER!
Is it really the case that throughout all the histories of D&D that no Wizard etc. had ever thought of putting non-dead people back together.
(Pant... Pant...)
Seriously tired of having to work around being a wise or charismatic healer when logically, the ability to heal people with magic should be able to work though study just the same as other spells.
The problem is that wizards get to cherry pick spells and have no cap on the number of spells they can learn via non level up means, so the class is only balanced by what spells are unavailiable to any wizard so for each wizard to be balanced every wizard has to have gaps in their powers.
Psionic healers used in in 3e but they're a bit niche.
There just flat arent' a lot fo int casters.
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Hmmm.... As for subclasses I would like to see.... I think what I want is some examples of combinations to get the same concept.
IOW, an UA article that goes into "How to play a Samurai". Taking the Noble background, X levels of fighter, X levels of Monk (or cleric?...whatever). Reflavoring weapons to nodachi or katana, etc.
Then maybe developing a new background ability, or a feat to help the concept, or a suggestion for swapping out a certain Monk class ability for a "samurai" class ability.
IOW, a recipe of sorts for how to use the current classes to make some non-obvious concepts with just a tiny bit of new material to help tweak the concept.
Senri-Sei wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Slit518 wrote:
Samurai especially is a poor candidate for a class or sub-class because as iconic as the image of a samurai is there's not a strong mechanical concept to go with it. It'd probably be a great background.
rampant wrote:
When an archetype is too famous or popular, it has to be a core or variant class. It isn´t for gameplay but by marketing reasons. Sourcebooks with classes are sold better.
It ought to be classes: samurai, ninja, sohei, crusader, avenger(witch hunter/inquisitor), shadow assasin, knight, gladiator, shaman. I imagine the shugenga with a different type of powers, the mysteries, like the ones by shadowmancer class from 3.5 "Tome of Magic".
I imagine samurai and ninja with the poses and "ki" maneuvers from "Tome of Battle: book of nine swords".
Another option is the variant class, with some class features are replaced with others, for example the jester from Dragon Magazine could be a variant class brother of the bard.
* Why not a bard subclass with truename magic?
And what precisely would this proposed samurai do with Ki exactly, arnwolf?
Luis, no, just no, that's the kind of thinking that got us the 3.5 samurai and swashbuckler. Great images, pissant execution due to not having a stong mechanical purpose. The shugenja are not shadow magic users, they are a type of spell caster that appear in L5R, they derive their magic from an innate ability to communicate with the elemental kami (spirits) active in their home country of rokugan and it's immediate environs. Even without that geographical limitation they'd be elemental casters not shadow users. You need more to make a class than a power source and a typical gear load out.
As for true name using bards I don't think bard can really pull a power source substitution witha sub-class since they don't get their sub-class till level 3. Now if you want bards to supplement their existing powers with name magic that's a different kettle of fish, totaly doable. The trick is now you have to decide what true name magic is going to be like in 5e. Typically true names are used for longer term type effects, enhancements and curses, binding, and summoning. Other affects are certainly possible of course such as warding the name to hide you from magic, or switching partial names with people, that one can be a real doosy, and of course sharing a name which is different from trading. Then there's just flat deleting a name, and that's just plain spooky.
Shugenja isn´t a shadowmance, but I mean the shugenja's elemental mysterios could be like shadowmance's shadow misteries, with the same game mechanic, but a different list. I like classes with different game mechanic because the classic core classes are too boring for me. I want to try new things.
...And the original shugenja was before in Oriental Adventures like a cleric subclass.
The concept of "ki" maneuvers and poses from "Tome of Battle: book of nine swords" should come back, and the oriental archetypes (samurai, ninja, sohei) are right, are perfect to be "martial adept" classes. I also would like a "swashbuckler" class with some "ki maneuvers and poses".
I love the concept of vestige pact magic. There is a great potential to create stories. A warlock subclass could use vestige pact magic... and a divine spellcaster, the summoner or invoker, could use Truename mechanic. In the 3.5 books of "evil darkness" and "exalted deeds" there were metions to a unholy and a sacred tongue. Why not an invoker with truename magic?
* The magic of incarnum from 3.5 was a lost oportunity, but I like the idea of to use chakras (body slots for magic item) and points of essentia to "buy" temporally monster traits. A subclass about totem shaman, or a totem wanderer could be playtested. A little list of totem souldmelds may be enough for the playtesting in some UA article. An another subclass about to mixing psionic constructs and the incarnum soulspark familiar, something like a pokemon trainer or a D&D monster summoner class.
Defensive/Anti-Undead Necromancer. This has precedent. There was a 2e necromancer kit called "deathstalker" which was an undead-hunting specialized necromancer.
Also, "Deathless" aka "Good Undead" for Necromancers and some Clerics.
Archery based Paladin
[quote="LuisCarlos17f"]
When an archetype is too famous or popular, it has to be a core or variant class. It isn´t for gameplay but by marketing reasons. Sourcebooks with classes are sold better.
Luis,
I am pretty sure they are trying to kill the notion that subclasses are less important than classes. Every PC that doesn't die at 1st or 2nd level (and even then a bunch of them have already gotten a subclass), gets a subclass. It isn't an optional thing for a couple of classes. It is a fundamental aspect of 5e. In general, classes make the basic mechanical nature of the PC, and the subclass throws in the bells and whistles.
So it isn't enough to say "make a samurai class", you need to give up some ideas on subclasses for the samurai as well. If all you have is one gimmick, then some combination of subclass of an existing class, a feat (or feats), a fighting style, and/or a background can handle it. It is easier to build all of those things then build a new class.
If you are going to suggest subclasses, one shouldn't be "super extra awesome", while the other(s) do "something else that I don't care about" or obviously are inferior in every way That is where most "warlord as its own class" ideas crash and burn, and it is easy to imagine that for a samurai too.
rampant wrote:
For me the subclasses are the return o the kits from AD&D 2nd. I like the idea, but some archetypes shouldn´t be only subclass. I defend the concept of "variant class", where some class features are replace with others, for example the urban druid from Dragon Magazine #317.
I don´t say shugengas have to use shadow magic, but a different type of power with own game mechanic, so different like the shadowmancer's mysteries from 3.5 "Tome of Magic". I haven't said really a bard subclass with truename, but a bard subclass using a special power like the game mechanic for truename magic. The book of exalted books mentioned the "words of creation", and 3.5 book of vile darkness mentioned the Dark Speech. Shugenjas can´t be only elemental clerics without armour and with a different list of spells.
My own version of shadowmancer isn´t they can manipulate the shadow version of matter, but the D&D version of the "dark matter", matter can´t be sensed because it is incorporeal and without any radiation, and it can´t interact with the normal matter.
arnwolf666 wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
While I do not think any more classes or subclasses are necessary, at all, I am having a blast converting classes and PrCs to 5th Ed.
Arn I'm not asking for a broad example of what ki can do, I want to know what a samurai should be able to do in your mind. Say the samurai is this ki-using fighter subclass, fine ok, so what? that tells me nothing. Is the Samurai using ki to be mobile? to do damage? protect himself? pull stunts? What? What is the samurai doing with his/her ki?
Luis, A cool mechnic is not enough for a class either one of the problems a lot fo the experimental classes from 3e suffered form was trying to do everything with their cool new magic system instead of building a class that used said system to accomplish the class's goals while retaining the essence of that class.
For example the barbarian could have been done as a psionic class according to nordic tradition, the rage of a berserker affects their mind force and allows them to pull insane stunts like becoming invulnerable, shapshiftign partially or entirely into a monstrous beast, manifesting collosal strength, etc.
I understand why wizards didn't get to make the 3-4 classes you'd need to do a new magic type properly every single time, but it's best to avoid the error all the same.
Shugenja have a strong correlation to rokugan and they never gain unlimited casitng there, I would suggest that instead they gain a progression of fewer spells, with limits on the spells they can learn based on their element (and posisbly school if you wanna get that detailed), but instead of keeping a bunch of low level spell slots shugenja automatically upcast their spells so instead of 4 spell slots of each level they run something like 6 spells per day of the last three spell levels they can access. Then the schools act as the sub-classes.
LuisCarlos17f wrote:
The Warlord and psionics are the only things conspicuous in their absence. Both were in a PH1 in a prior edition, both had fans and detractors, both were snubbed.
Exclusion from the PH should be enough for those who hate psionics for being science-fiction/not being magic/whatever or the Warlord for being an interesting martial class that wasn't strictly inferior to casters.
I could see two way to add each. Either a minimally-disruptive way that favors keeping 5e simple and pandering to existing prejudices, or a full-on, wholly optional way that adds complexity & messes with 5e's limitations.
Simple Psionics is easy: Add it as a Sorcerer sub-class. The Sorcerer already has a point-based mechanic, which echoes the psionic power point tradition, and the sub-class could have it's own distinctive spell list, favoring psionic-appropriate effects and adding a few new uniquely-psionic ones.
Simple Warlord is harder to envision: no sub-class changes a class as much as you'd have to change a Fighter to make it into a Warlord. Warlords just didn't have the 5e fighter's DPR specialization, and demand more tactical depth than 5e provides be default. Still, if you were to take the Battlemaster, add more and more effective manuevers, allow the Warlord to trade in extra attacks for them instead of having only a handful of CS dice, and of course use & expand the tactical module, you could come up with something as Warlord-appropriate as a squinty sorcerer is psionic-appropriate.
Much more intereting would be to take a more complex, explicitly optional approach to each:
The Psionic could be it's own class, with sub-classes for the Psi Warrior/Battlemind, Ardent, Soul Knife, or whatever else they want to resurrect or invent. It could have it's own unique psionic power point sytem, and it's own list of discplines and sciences distinct from spells.
The Warlord could be it's own class, as well, focusing on manuevers, tactics, & strategems instead of multiple attacks. Sub-classes could cover tactical focus, iconic leadership/support (functionally adequate inspiration in place of a magical healer, though non-magical and not really 'healing'), action-granting, or bold lead-from-the front heroics.
And that's just to cover the initial 'everything in a PH1' promise.
There's so many other classes, sub-classes, and PrCs that might rate a sub-class or new class. Artificers, Shaman, Avenger, Invoker, Scout, Knight, Duelist, Warblade, Sword-Sage, Bladesinger, Warden, etc, etc...
Tony_Vargas wrote:
The warlord can be a variant class to be used with the future modules about skirmishes and mass battles, warrior with the "maneuvers" of the school of white raven from "Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords".
* For the first playtest with the psionic powers a sorcerer bloodline about gem dragons could be created, and the monk subclass "Fist of Zuoken".
Brock_Landers wrote:
I would love to see a sorcerer sub-class that make the sorcerer look good, a sorcerer sub-class that allow the sorcerer to embrace his inner power, instead of being slave to his power and transform into a dragon or being slave to it and transform into choas itself, or even worse multiclassing into cleric (favored soul)???
Can we have please at lease 1 sub class that make the sorcerer a full spellcaster? somethign to celebrate the inner magic of the sorcerer, somethign that would higlight the sorcerer, somethign that would be iconic, that when someone think of a sorcerer he see that subclass.
I mean if I tell you Paladin, the older player think of the Lawfull good paladin (Devotion) the younger who played MMORPG might think of the two handed sword paladin weilding a big sword (Vengeance)
If I tell you Ranger, most of you see a wood elf with a bow and his trusted animal companion.
If I tell you rogue, everyone see the thief or the assassin, lurking int he shadow ready to do what need to be done, but no one want to do
If I tell you wizard you see that old guys in the library reading all those book
etc... with the monk (open hand), fighter (battle master), barbarian (berserker)
Then we get to the sorcerer, when I imagine a sorcerer I see a guy who's eye turn white, with arcane energy swirling around him and summoning from within him an orb of pure magical energy transforming upon his will into what his mind is imagining, and the metamagic kind of allow doing somethign like this is I lve the metamagic and I wish we woudl have a sub-class that would allow us to use more metamagic (by reducing the cost, increasing the SP pool, allwoing to regain SP before level 4 etc....) Even maybe add new metamagic options.
a good sorcerer sub class that increase my spellcasting ability.
Psionicist - Mind over Matter, Mind over Body, Telepathy, Planar Travel, Teleport, Time Travel, Pyrokinesis, Pocket Dimensions and Demiplanes, Warping Reality or similar effects at level 20. Lots of Energy Points, Well defended Mind. Some can shapeshift and heal, others can create or disintegrate objects. A few can transmute elements like copper peices to gold pieces, or create Psychic Blades. NOT MAGIC. Uses Force & Psychic damage types.
Kensai - A level 12 Kensai strikes with their weapon of choice as a +3 weapon, +3 to hit, +3 damage (4th =+1, 8th = +2). They have approximately 1 more attack/bonus action than a fighter. Their Base Armor Class is equal to their Dexterity (no normal dex bonus to AC), but cannot wear armor at all. Their weapon of choice is considered Finesse. They have resistance to Surprise at some level, and Immunity to Fear from 1st level.
Can dual weild at no penalty at 7th level even if the weapon is the same size, as long as the weapon can be wielded with one hand. They probably have some martial arts feats or special abilities that do things like improve their damage dice to the next step, improve armor class, allow dash/disengage actions, or even allow them to levitate.
Their Armor Class and Initiative further improve by Half their proficiency Bonus.
Level Bonus
1-8 +1 initiative, +1 AC
9-16 +2 initiative, +2 AC
17+ +3 initiative, +3 AC
They have a cumulative 10% chance per level of running into a Rival Kensai who will duel them. If they win, they gain inspiritation.
At 17th-20th level, their weapon of choice can take on one special property. Special properties include:
Sun, Wounding, Slaying, Flame, Speed, Sharpness, Frost, Dancing, and Defender
Upon obtaining 20th level, the Kensai may quest/acquire 30,000 experience points and use a Boon to upgrade their Weapon of choice from the previous special properties to one of the following. Alternatively, the Boon may be used to select a different property above.
Luck, Answering, Avenging, and Vorpal.
The Luck Blade effect will have exactly 1 wish loaded each time this Boon is chosen. The Avenging property will be Attuned to the Kensai only. Vorpal and Sharpness require a slashing weapon of choice or martial arts. All magical properties for whatever weapon of choice is used, only apply when the Kensai is wielding the weapon. The weapon of a Kensai is non magical, but may be of high quality, or made from special materials. The particular weapon the kensai chooses doesn't matter, their abilities apply to all weapons of that type: i.e., if their weapon is a wakizashi/short sword, it doesn't matter if they use the red one, the blue one, the rusty one, or the expensive one in the display case. Their abilities apply to all Wakizashi they use.
Ninja - I don't think anyone is going to do this right. Rogue already covers almost every traditional aspect. All that leaves is Anime ninjas with special effects. Basically we are looking at a monk variant with some thief/rogue/assassin stuff thrown in. 1/3rd illusions, 1/3rd monk martial arts & weapons, 1/3rd backstabby goodness. Chunin, Genin, Jonin. Anything more will have people spending chakra to walk on water and summon 9 tailed foxes.
Tony_Vargas wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
Tony_Vargas wrote:
Tony_Vargas wrote:
From what I know Gygax was planning on removing the psionic powers and monk for his version of 2E. They went with that in 2E anyway.
Zardnaar wrote:
Other than the Assassin, Shadowdancer was my favorite 3.5 PrC in the DMG. A teleporting Rogue is just too much fun to not exist in 5E.
shintashi wrote:
Eventually I'd like to see a subclass for each of the major druidic sects of Eberron, except perhaps the Wardens of the Wood who could just be the local variation of the circle of the land.
I want a shadow mage whether as a wizard subclass or warlock, although the latter will make it easier to convert my current build 
.
frothsof wrote:
arnwolf666 wrote:
pauln6 wrote:
shintashi wrote:
I would really like to see a psionicist (reminiscent of the 2e Psionics Handbook version). I would like to see it as its own class. Like the bard, I would like it to have a more martial sub-class (to represent psychic warriors/battle-minds). It might be cool for the warrior to get a psychic sub-class as well (leaving the battlemind as a more psychic inflected sub-class for the psionicist while the fighter can become a psychic warrior). If so, the rogue might get a "lurk" or "soul knife" sub-class.
rampant wrote:
I am not a fan of psionics, but their is enough demand for it that it really should be in an upcoming supplement. And I really hate psionics in D&D, but it can fit several homebrew settings. I actually find it unneccessary in Dark Sun, especially with Sorcerers, but that is just me. I think it would be good business to just create a good psion class.
arnwolf666 wrote:
Cyber-Dave wrote:
Cyber-Dave wrote:
I was considering working up a shaman as a new base class. I looked at every edition's version of the shaman (from the 1E DMG shaman to PF's advanced classes guide, the 3E adept; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaman_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons) but then I found a version that I think works. Check out: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?355958-Shamanism-Domain-for-5E-Cleric-Critique-Requested combine it with the background found here:http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?386104-Shaman-Background-Looking-for-Feedback and I think you have a really nice approximation of any editions shaman. Oddly enough it involves a reskin of the cleric in lieu of the druid (which I never would have thought of), but I think for the most part it works on a lot of levels. That said, I might tweak a few of the spells, give them more skill options to choose from at 1st level, and flip when you get each version of channel divinity (and maybe a few tweaks to clarify some of the language). Kudos to CM and zeek0.
I'd like to see the alchemist as a seperate class (could be combined with the artificer, which I'm less itnerested in). The PF MacGyver version is way cool, but there are so many options for it, going more Dr. Jekyll or MacGyver or straight up lab geek.
I'd also like to see a proper runecaster as a new class.
Other than that, I'd love to see more options a vareity of sorts.
- 1/3 caster barbarian and 1/3 caster monk
- A proper spellsinger option for the bard
- new cleric domains, notably charm, luck, and retribution/wrath domains, among others.
- A proper vestige/binder pact for the warlock would be cool.
- I think the eldritch knight needs some spell options that work as bonus actions and reactions similar to the paladin in order to make a functioning bladesinger or duskblade or arcane archer, but I don't think it needs much more thant that.
- Likewise, a few more battlemaster options would round out a marshall/warlord (for me at least)
I found a good fighter cavalier option here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/5earchetypes/showentry.php?e=31&catid=popentries&orderby=posts
And a good generalist wizard/ritualist here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?358776-5e-Wizard-specialist-wizard#ixzz3Q9qFCuMR
Other than that, I think its digging into psionic classes and more setting specific stuff whether its Oriental Adventures, FR, DL, Eberron, Dark Sun, or what have you. I think with some of the other homebrew creations (i've posted a scout class and incantatrix sorcerer archetype) and all of the already built in options, most things are covered.
Azzy1974 wrote:
shintashi wrote:
Azzy1974 wrote:
Lost my list in a browser crash, so here's a lazier version:
Shaman: Druid subclass that uses wild shape to summon a spirit ally, and casts spells through the ally.
Summoner: with base class features that support having a powerful summoned companion, and subclasses that make it work a little differently, and focus on different kinds of summoned creatures. Use the Summoner video games for inspiration, but only include the Binder and Sha'ir. Maybe even a construct inventor summoner? Only because I'd hate for such a concept to get stuck with core mechanics that don't support the construct being a big part of the character.
Warmage: (working name) Weapon using caster. Unarmored defense, or defensive 1st level spells as cantrips, all the weapon based spells like the smites and entangling strike, increased speed, weapon bond, etc. Subclasses for a cursing hexblade type, an Arcane Archer, and perhaps a rune based unarmed subclass, although that could also live in the monk. But maybe a subclass where you have a living metal arm, like the silver armed smith in Dragonlance, and can channel magical power through it. Although, that one could also be a type of artificer. So, probably just the hexblade, bladesinger and Arcane Archer.
Tinker: Much less magical than the artificer, with maybe a more magical subclass 1/3 caster thing. Based on useful contraptions, traps and customized gear. This is the guy who makes his crossbow into a grenade launcher, can deploy tripwire traps while running from baddies, has gadgets that help find traps and hidden rooms, and deploys modules for his crossbow to switch between grenade launcher, regular bolts, grapple bolts, etc. Basically, a class that uses tinker tech to obviate skills and get around obstacles in a manner similar to spells and magical class features. Perhaps one subclass is focused on traps and things like that, another on bombs and grenades and such, and one that is a little more magical, perhaps making potions, although that would be a bit mroe overlap with the arti than I'd like.
Artificer: base class, includes alchemist, and perhaps that living metal magic arm thing above. Also a pet subclass with a construct dog or whatever would be cool.
A divine monk that's a little less of a hack than the one I've made.
The Captain: Runs the gamut from the 4e warlord (without the name baggage) to the star wars saga edition noble (leadership and inspiration) to a robin hoodish leader of criminals type.
A collection of scholarly subclasses for various classes. A monster knowledge expert for the ranger, a fence/streetwise information broker for the rogue, the bard already has one, is there a knowledge cleric?, etc.
Subclasses and backgrounds for playing in a age of sail (galleons and firearms, oh my!) and/or a modern-y campaign/final fantasy-esque campaign.
Something for an animal spirit warrior, where you take on aspects of animals, and perhaps even learn to briefly turn into an animal spirit, ala the AU DLC for assassin's creed 3*.
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BnIgEQ-tC4
Brock_Landers wrote:
SleepsInTraffic wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
Classes
Psion
Psionic caster with a full range of psionic powers, and uses power points to cast instead of spell slots. Has a subclass for each of the main psionic disciplines (such as Telepath, Kineticist, and Shaper), much like the Wizard's arcane traditions, that give thematically appropriate bonuses to certain powers.
Warmind
A psionic half-caster built on the Paladin/Ranger chassis. Medium Armor, Psionic powers up to level 5, and proficiency with all weapons. Can also use Psionic power points to augment their own physical abilities, similar to how the Monk uses Ki. Subclasses would include the Totemist and Sentinel, the former focusing on Psychometabolism, while the latter is based on the 4e Battlemind.
Empath
A psionic Cleric with a heavy focus on Auras and zones centered on him/herself. Subclasses would include the Ardent (4e "psionic warlord") and the Acolyte (a robed caster similar in theme to a Lore Bard).
Artificer
Basically an INT-based Bard that replaces the "Minstrel" flavor with a more steampunk inventor/mad scientist theme. Subclasses would include the Engineer, focusing on creating and controlling magitek minions, the Alchemist, which focuses on creating potions and other consumables, and the Binder, which taps the power of the elemental planes to create temporary magic items (like the 4e version).
Swordmage
Basically an Arcane Paladin/Ranger. It's primary mechanic would be to empower its weapons with the effects of spells, not only making them melee (or ranged) spell attacks instead of weapon attacks, but also (at higher levels) actually triggering a spell on a successful weapon attack (similar to the "Arcane Archer" feat from the playtest). Subclasses would include the Hexblade (a heavily-armored variant), the Spellblade (conversion of the 4e Swordmage), and Duskblade (a half-caster version of the Arcane Trickster).
Subclasses
Vanguard
Psionic subclass of Fighter, simillar to the Eldritch Knight, but using Psionic powers. Features would focus on using pschometabolism and force of will to survive horrible injuries and perform impossible feats of strength, endurahce, and agility, and would allow the Fighter to burn PP to increase the healing provided by Second Wind, or even gain Regeneration.
Samurai
Paladin subclass that grants access to psionic power points ("Ki") that can be used to perform combat maneuvers, like a mixture of the Battlemaster Fighter and the Monk, given in place of the Paladin's Oath spells. Also grants a second Fighting Style at 3rd level in place of a Channel Divinity, with a choice of Archery, Defense, Protection, or Two-Weapon styles. Level 20 feature grants a "Hyper Mode" type effect where you enter a state of supreme focus and clarity.
Warden
Primal subclass of Barbarian, which can assume spirit mantles during his Rages that replace or augment the normal affects of Rage. For instance, it could take on the form of a fire spirit to gain an aura of fire and cold resistance, or take the form of a panther to gain stealth bonuses and increased mobility, and perhaps a claw attack, etc. Could also gain the ability to cast a small number of Druid spells per day, only usable while raging.
Soulknife
Psionic Monk subclass, gains Mindblade and limited Psionic powers it manifests using Ki. Instead of being limited to a single mindblade, this updated subclass would enable you to summon many kinds of weapons, armor, and even creatures formed from your mind. It would be sort of like if you gave Bruce Lee a Green Lantern ring.
Wilder
Psionic Sorcerer that manifests powers with sorcery points and takes on an aspect of madness from an ancestor touched by the Far Realm. Eventualy gains the power to temporarily drive foes insane.
Lurker
Psionic 1/3rd caster Rogue, like the Arcane Trickster, but with the ability to teleport, read minds, and use remote viewing to spy on areas he/she has never seen in person.
Scout
Primal 1/3rd caster Rogue, like the Arcane Trickster, but casts spells from the Druid list and gains features that focus on the Exploration pillar. Basically, a variant of the Ranger.
Avenger
Divine 1/3rd caster Rogue, based on the aspects of the 4e class not covered by the Vengeance Paladin, like Armor of Faith and Divine Censure. Might also poach the shroud mechanic from the 4e Assassin, since Oath of Enmity is already taken.
Seeker
Ranger with enhanced spellcasting ability, loosely based on the 4e class. It's primary mechanic would be bonus spellls based on natural terrain, like the Land Druid's Circle Spells. However, the Seeker's spells would change depending on the terrain they were currenty in, like the FF Geomancer. Spells would add more offensive power to the class, like Thunderwave, Call Lightning, Ice Storm, and Flame Strike.
Shaman
Druid subclass that allows you to summon a spirit pet that acts like an upgraded arcane familiar that can actually hold its own in combat. The class would be released along with a bunch of "Summon X" spells, and its features would also include the ability to merge your spirit companion with your allies to grant them persistent buffs while fused (like the Animist Shaman in 4e).
SleepsInTraffic wrote:
arnwolf666 wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
Tony_Vargas wrote:
here's a trip for you guys. You all know the poster website of the kensei kanji right? Well here's a totally different term:
賢才 read as kensai, man of ability, gifted man.
meanwhile,
剣聖 read as kensei, means master swordsman. However, there's also 聖者 which means saint, using the first kanji attached to kensei.
a kanji that is pronounced both as sei and as sai, and as "zai". 歳
to make matters worse, it seems only Americans and Japanese video game players use the word. I typed kensei in a search for japanese culture and I got "urban dictionary: wapanese" (i'm not even kidding). When put together with Musashi, I got a link to rice wine.
http://musashi-sake.jp/products/products_musashi01.html
But then i think i hit paydirt with this link:
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/昭和の剣聖
which loosely talks about a Prefecture, Showa, and the location as being a famous Kendo house.
I think while we are supposed to call it kensei, since we started calling it that, and correcting and revisioning it to historical pseudoaccuracy, the mythical aspect of the man with paranormal sword powers through a lifetime of training and meditation with deep philosophical insights has kind of devolved into a bland fighter you could probably build using a half dozen different ways.
I think what I would like to capture is that fantastical element like the Excalibur-esque scene of Demon City Shinjuku and his final fight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRzviawCzOE&t=4194
obviously, some Samurai X and Afro Samurai would be nice too. In Samurai Seven, the Jesus looking dude fights the dude in red,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHgIisOn22I
but these guys can drop mecha with their 'non magical' swords.
I mean, you don't see a lot of people complaining that the final fantasy dragoon should actually be a pot bellied French dude on a horse using a hand held arqebus pistol. I think sometimes our modern cultural revision of something can be more entertaining and cooler than the historical variant. Best power in Real Life history a Paladin could have? Can you guess? I have two words for you: Black Plague. Now the answer is totally different, right?
THis forum needs xp.
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
Skill challenges were easily the worst part of 4e. The concept may have made sense, but they were broken in half.
GladiusLegis wrote:
the granularity of skills and saves in 5e sucks. it doesn't mesh well with the prevalance of 1/2 mechanics when you really need immune mechanics to survive some encounters. The number of times i've been hit with high damage AOEs in closed spaces is ridiculous, and more ridiculous is the fact that there's little i can do about it. I actually had a DM say "ok, before you leave on your 25,000 mile journey, is there anything you would like to do to prepare before facing the Red Wizards?" and I'm thinking "yeah.. import some spells & gear from 2e, cause there's like nothing that's going to save my life in this game". So i told the DM "Nope.. I'm ready..." which was a bold faced lie. The problem is there wasn't anything I could do.
in really old editions, clerics and wizards would blanket the party with protection spells, and then the classes/races that had their own special immunities would help reduce the loss of resources. Magic items would fill in the blanks where spells and class abilities failed. In this edition, the emphasis on class or race abilities is both heavy and individualized, while the blanket/backup plans of casters is muted by concentration restrictions, and the magical items can't fill in the gaps for wholly uneven distribution of incoming doom.
D&D is starting to feel like a Virus movie about Blood Types. Like, you need a transfusion and if your blood type is B positive, you get to live, or if you get hit by the virus and your blood type is O, you are just hosed. Except class features like Paladin saves, Racial Half Damage resistances, and Monk/rogue evasion are filling in for blood types.
shintashi wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
Skill challenges where definatly a step in the right direction.
But it could of been better thought out.
mellored wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
shintashi wrote:
Tony_Vargas wrote:
For me, the big thing that's missing is psionics. I'd love it if they made a psion class with each of the disciplines as subclasses. I kind of feel like most of the other psionics classes would be better done as subclasses, though (i.e. psychic warrior being a subclass of fighter). The only thing that kind of sticks in that regard is the soulknife, which I loved in concept but have never seen done particularly well in D&D. It wasn't quite a fighter, nor a monk, nor rogue. It's mechanics would be difficult to replicate in 5e due to the magic-optional nature of the game (which is otherwise a good thing, in my opinion).
Maybe my old age is clouding my memory, but what was so special about soulknife that a 5e bladepact warlock couldn't manage to emulate?
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well frnakly that's a problem with the 'built in weapon' concept. Not as big adeal in 5e, ot it shouldn't be since magic items aren't default anymore, but if you're playing in a game with them then yeah it makes the blade pact and similar things like potential future soulkniives seem pretty dumb.
Also the soulknife was never well constructed in 3e. They gave him a shiny sword but seemed to not really have a coherent concept beyond that point.
rampant wrote:
Eh the dream scarred version is better, but it's still missing a core concept beyond shiny psi-blade.
That said doing it well would not be especially difficult, you'd just have to detemrine the classes's core concepts ahead of time with the understandign that it needs something to DO, the mindblade is what it does things WITH.
Seems like it could be feat.
soulknife
+1 str or dex
*As a bonus action you can create psioniic weapon, or 2 light weapons, that you are proficent in.
*If you have a magic weapon, you can temporaraly transfer it's enchantment onto your psionic weapon.
*You cannot be disarmed.
ChrisCarlson wrote:
I'd build a 5e souknife as a class that's basically a really weapon focused green latern. Build psionic constructs, empower yourself, perform great physical feats, absorb damage, etc. all on a ki point system, because I'd just based all the psions on ki.
rampant wrote:
Why would it get magic item bonuses? That is beyond the perview of a class.
It wouldn't be part of any specific class, but rather a power (like a spell) which could be taken, theoretically, by any class that can manifest psionic powers, and the magic weapon bonuses would be part of the augmentation available for it.
Magic weapon bonuses are not a thing in the game's core math, allowing PC to access them too easily is a bad idea.
That's why they'd be an optional augment, similar to the Magic Weapon spell from the PHB.
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
Please, 5e has no hoverboards, much less sleek ones. 5e has established nothing that the other editions weren't willing to go back over, 3e had monster manual psionics long before the classes came out. The GOOlock is about as psionic as a cleric.
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
If you look hard enough, there are subclasses you can reflavor to look a lot like psions. GOO-locks, Knowledge Clerics, ATs, Enchanters, Diviners. All of those can either play with someone's mind, readily access knowledge they shouldn't have, enchant people and project illusions. All overlaps with the traditional psion. Multiclassing opens up the rest. The only thing you "lose" is the jargon that kept getting tacked on to distance psionic "spells" and "magic" from other spells and magic.
The fact is that if you're looking for a "classic" D&D feel with regard to psionics, expect it to get back-burnered and then slid off into a supplement and loaded up with some sort of Unearthed Arcana magic system for no reason.
Chris, The 3e monster manuals did the exact same thing before the psionic classes came out, twice in fact, once for 3e, and once for 3.5. So the fact that some kludge is in the MM means less than nothing about how psionics eventually turns out.
Modus, I think we're using different definitions of psionic, you're defnining them base don effect which is less than useless because wizards already have all the effects besides healing, and can get that if they're tricky. I don't expect classic dnd feel with respect to psiionics, I expect good solid work that creates a character I'd actually like to play. Classic is not going to do that. Still better than the casters by a long mile, but i"d liek them to make some dramatic improvements from classic dnd psionics.
I'm 97.3% convinced there will eventually be a fully fleshed-out psionics "something" for 5e (be it a supplement in a future book, UA or Dragon+ article, or whatever).
But the inverse of that percentage (so, 2.7%), in my opinion, is roughly the likelihood it will be anything like what you are looking for. My condolences.
Yeah, well that's life, and why I need to get back to work on my custom ttrpg rules so I can set up games that work according to my sensibilities.
rampant wrote:
I would like some hybrid class, for example a soulknife subclass with ki maneuvers, or with psionic powers.
My own point of view is some archetypes have to be sold like classes, because subclasses are like to sell the same doll with a different dress. I don´t want the same doll again, I want to buy a different character, the body can be the same, but the head of the doll and the dress has to be different.
* Cofrater, member of brotherhood, the D&D psionic jedi.
* Today with the ubisoft games the assasin should be a complete class, to not do it would be a great marketing mistake.
rampant wrote:
mellored wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
DoctorBadFaith wrote:
ModusPonens wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
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I think we will see psionics when they get around to doing something with Darksun.
rampant wrote:
I was asking about a Sense8 class in another thread. Here is what I was thinking.
My current DM and I both LOVED every bit of the recent Netflix show Sense8. (If you have not seen it give it a try) We were wondering how to build characters with similar abilities. For those who do not know there are 8 individuals who all wake up after a bad dream and are psychically linked. They have the ability to communicate and share skills. The question is how to make this work without everyone in the party getting to be OP????
We are thinking that each player could be, as normal, whatever race and class they liked. The Sense8 abilities would scale up independently of normal class levels. By that I mean you would not have to sacrifice your normal rouge progression to get new Sense8 perks.
Simple is good but I think this group wants and is willing to put some more complexity into this. Our general plan is to start the characters off at lvl 3 when they gain the Sense8 build. We are thinking of a point system where certain actions cost x points. Each tradition lvl would unlock more Sense8 points and abilities. I am just not sure what those should be, when you should get them and the costs. I will think about it some more get a rough build and ask again.
Anyway I just wanted to crowed source this before we meet up to talk it over.
I have a few ideas, what you could do is have it as a sort of party resource where they can tap into the party's skills, but that's more like sharing a friendly ghost.
You could have a class dedicated to being the network hub, and that character takes levels inn the 'hub' class.
Some sort of super team work feat the whole party takes?
A class that can actually affect the game using those throw-away joke attributes Intelligence and Charisma without it being definatively magic and thus dispellable or blockable via anti-magic and without it involving singing, dancing or reciting bad poetry.
D&D is the only game I know of that Intelligent people play and is dead-set on the idea that Intelligence is worthless and cannot affect a world without magic in any way that contributes to achieving victory or avoiding death.
I really don't care what you decide to call the class. But I want to roll up a character who can have high Intelligence and/or high Charisma and still get average hit points, wear typical armor and use typical weapons without needing to be some zealous evangelical bigot or going 'zap-zap' with fireballs or stroking his flute in the middle of a battle. And yet still be useful.
I'm sorry but you play a very different version of DnD than I do. Those attributes have a lot of uses and value in our games. And not all our encounters revolve around killing things and taking their loot.
LordCorwin wrote:
I wouldn't enjoy playing in a game with you. Oh and I'll let me friend know that his 8 dexterity paladin should have died a while ago. Thanks for the heads up.
Hebitsuikaza wrote:
I dunno, I could see the heal skill allowing you to add int to dmaage rolls.
Thoughts_My_Aim wrote:
Hebitsuikaza wrote:
rampant wrote:
rampant wrote:
Hebitsuikaza wrote:
DizzyWood wrote:
Thoughts_My_Aim wrote:
I'm honestly torn on it.
On the one hand it does bug me that Int is quite so useless for everybody except Wizards (in my current game 3/4 PCs have Int 8, which we sort of like because it means the gnome wizard is completely allowed to complain about being SURROUNDED BY IMBECILES!). On the other hand, I am bothered by the idea that one has to be academically gifted to be good at acquiring skills. You don't have to be clever to be able to learn to do stuff.
Of course part of this might be a reaction against Call of Cthulhu, where being well educated is by far the most important factor in a character's ability to do anything. If you had to bet on a 22 year old heavyweight boxer or an 85 year old Physics professor in a fight, in Cthulhu you'd be wise to bet on the professor every time, because they'd have the INT and EDU to jack up their combat skills through the roof.
I have the same thing in my game. Everyone except the wizard has an 8 int. That has been going on for quite a while too. People complain about MAD, I like MAD. I like different abilities running off of different attrubutes and every attribute giving very useful abilities.
Well you're not likely to get that wiht most editions of dnd, at least not uniformly, With the exception of constitution a lot of stats just aren't hyper relevant to more than a few classes. Back in 3e for example everyone was dumping cha excep the spont casters and the faces, when they weren't the same guy, becaus it didn't do anything for you unless you were a face or a member fo one of the cha based classes (many of whom were spont casters or near enough), with paladin being one of the exceptiosn and that was a MAD class.
Int at least gave you more skill points, and languages but almost everythign spoke or understood common if it had the ability to use language anyway. Strength and or dex ran wepaon attacks but after a few levels the casters either stopped giving a crap about those most of the time or could stack up enough bonuses to not care.
Basically DnD typically emphasizes the class over the ability scores as far as determining what a character can do, and sinc emost classes only emphasize 1-3 ability scores, and one is generally more important than the others by a wide margin even in the case of the 3 ability score classes, you end up with dump stats being fairly common. With only one class being run on int, no bonus languages or skills, and a limited number of skills and saves base don the int stat, there's no motivation to boost int when you're not playing a wizard.
rampant wrote:
I'm still hoping for an armor-less cleric. Basically a WoW "priest". Something buffy/healy. E.g.:
- Lose armor proficiencies, but get unarmored defense (Wis + Dex) in its place
- Sanctuary as bonus spell
- As a reaction, grant allies a bonus to Wisdom saves, Wis-modifier times/day.
- Etc...
Elfcrusher wrote:
arnwolf666 wrote:
arnwolf666 wrote:
mrpopstar wrote:
Elfcrusher wrote:
I am in love with the pathfinder witch and alchemist class.
I think the tradeoff for the cleric without armor and less weapons is simply better protective magic.
Elfcrusher wrote:
Hebitsuikaza wrote:
Hebitsuikaza wrote:
mrpopstar wrote:
Elfcrusher wrote:
Azzy1974 wrote:
Elfcrusher wrote:
The 4e witch was a effectivly a divination wizard with find familiar.
The problem is many have a different idea of what a witch is. I see them uses hexes and curse. The Evil eye. That's the witch I want.
The ol' AD&D Complete Wizard's Handbook witch kit was always one of my favorites.
mellored wrote:
rampant wrote:
rampant wrote:
The 4e Witch arguably has been rolled into the Warlock, actually. Some of its features and powers have shone up as Warlock invocations and spells. Furthermore, in 4e, it felt arbitrarily made into a Wizard subclass so it could access Wizard spells; this was the main consequence of classes having spells/powers unique to themselves, that no one else used. Sure, you could make a Warlock spell that did the same thing as the Wizard spell, and flavor it for the Witch, and therefore keep the Witch in the class it was flavorfully accurate for. Or, you could just make a Warlock subclass of the Wizard and call it the Witch. It was a bad decision, but it was a decision built upon one of the fundamental problems with 4e. It was a reason 4e worked, but also a reason 4e didn't work. It's why we got a Bladesinger Wizard (should have been a build of Swordmage, but they wanted it to cast Wizard spells alongside hitting things with the sword), it's why we got a Sha'ir Wizard (should have been an Elemental Binder that summons Gen, but the Binder could only use Warlock/Hexblade/Binder spells, not Wizard spells, and Sha'ir had Wizard spells in the past so…). It was a problem that emerged with later 4e.
This is why we went back to universal spells cast regardless of your class or power source. Caster Classes can share their spells, just with different lists. Witch is fully playable as a Warlock. Choose Pact of Chains or Pact of the Tome. Hell, a Witcher-like character is Pact of the Blade.
Hebitsuikaza wrote: