Just curious what people wish was in 5e that was in earlier editions or just what you miss about earlier editions.
For me, I miss 2e's vast amount of material (all the settings, class and race variations, etc.) and the modular binder + sheets-style MM. And POSTER MAPS! I really hope the 5e setting book(s) come with them again.
I miss 4e's 'attacker always rolls' and the AEDU 'power' system each class had.
I don't really miss anything from 3e/3.5/PF and I don't miss anything from 1e/BECMI. 
5e is great, but it sometimes feels timid; like it's trying way too hard to not polarize people, or take any risks. It's also lacking in options (compared to all the other out of print D&D's and even other TTRPGs). Obviously, the latter can (and hopefully will) change as the years wear on. IMO, 5e is what 3e should have been. In that, it's a huge success to me.
Thoughts?
I did like all the variation the 2e had, but then that was after a long period of time that it built up. Poster maps were also cool, I used to love the box sets.
The AEDU from 4e I'm glad is gone. I didn't mind 4e, quite enjoyed some of it, but the deviation from the previous editions was too much for me so I'm glad that 5e resembles 2e/3e more than 4. I kind of miss mystara but now with all the pdfs being released it is easily adaptable to 5e.
I wish that Warforged had made it into 5e like we were originally promised.
Also a proper Artificer class would be awesome.
Spelljammer, stronghold and magic item creation rules would be neat.
I miss some of the eclectic nature of the rules in 1e2e. I get that current AC method is better than THAC0, but now everything is a Stat roll.... ability checks, 'skills', attacks, saving throws, etc..... everything.
I kind of liked how saving throws depended on the origin of the magic.... and was tied to class, not attribute.
I liked how a class could just be good at something, without having to have *another* high stat. (5e Rogues are pretty bad at finding traps and climbing walls.... since they tend to have low Int/WIs/Str)
I am not sure if I like the role that cantrips now play.... but I need to think on that one a bit more...
I've only played 4E, and I miss the "Bloodied" status, the equipment tables, at-will wild shape, levels on magic items, monsters and traps, the structured nature of power cards, the use of icons and color, the character builder and compendium, Dragon magazine, LFR.
Coredump00 wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
AEDU isn't gone.
I do miss a warlord class. And damage on a miss.
Its okay though, I just wrote it into my PH. Warlord is next once we settle on a clear winner idea.
Boxed sets. With maps, and screens, and all of the other hold it in your hands joy of gaming. It made it feel like you bought a game, not a book of tables and stats. The Starter Set comes close...
And after watching a player skim through the DMG, point to magic items, and ask the DM "Can I have that?", I miss the "Player's NOT Allowed" warning on the DMG and MM.
CCS wrote:
feartheminotaur wrote:
seti wrote:
I miss unified defenses and spellcasters rolling more often.
I miss tactically interesting and mechanically varied martial PCs.
I miss the primal power source and barbarians that truly felt different from fighters.
I miss classes actually being able to tank for the party and control the battlefield.
I miss swordsages who actually blending martial and magic instead of using both separately.
I miss the shadow power source, especially as it pertains to the assassin.
I miss parties being able to get through the expected number of encounter per day without needing a healer.
I miss the truly interesting class concepts available in late 3e (warlock, binder, totemist, factotum, trunamer, warblade, etc).
I miss how easy it was to design balanced monsters and encounters.
I miss spells and spellcasters having radically different functions instead of mostly being identical in function.
I miss having a choice at each level of advancement instead of only having 5 or 6 choices total across my adventuring career.
I don't miss combats that take too long, a glut of options, feats that only affect combat, and a unifier power structure.
I think a lot of stuff people miss WIL be coming in later suplements. I do miss the 4E Daggermaster Rogue, just because I think there's something incredibly classy about a Rogue armed to the teeth with just a completely unnecessary amount of daggers, and in 5E that choice is just outshined by rapiers and hand crossbows.
I miss:
- Roll-under-ability-score as the resolution method.
- Situation dice (from Alternity).
- Nonweapon proficiencies (as a concept, not an implementation... the implementation in 2e was terrible).
- The covers and page edge graphics of 3e.
- The header graphics, fonts and gradient sidebars of 4e.
The last two I'm probably out of luck for, but the first two wouldn't be too hard to homebrew, and the third I've already homebrewed, so no worries
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
I miss the clarity of the old editions. I gather that the D&D 5E authors are going for natural language, rather than explicitly defined terms, but I feel that a lot of discussion on these forums (and on rpg.stackexchange.com) could have been avoided with some consistency of terms. For example, calling Actions something different, so that the fragment "when you take an action" is unambiguous. For example, explicitly defining terms like "use" and "wield" and "hold" and then using the terms consistently.
That said, I might be remembering the old editions through rose-tinted sunglasses.
I also miss the different types of die roll. I once encountered someone using loaded dice. In AD&D, you wanted high on your d20 when attacking but low on your d20 when saving. Forcing this player to use the *same* d20 for to hit rolls and saving throws pretty neatly taught them not to bring loaded dice to the table.
I miss being able to buy more books. I don't think I've ever owned a complete set of any D&D edition (maybe 1e, before they brought out any supplements). New books in March, right? My birthday is around that time of year...
ChrisTheS wrote:
Ramulf wrote:
I miss having so much information stuffed into the book that it felt like it was barely being constrained by the margins.
Kind of like a Lawolf post really.
I don't miss specific features from any edition to a great extent, but I do feel the 5E missed the opportunity to take a queue from features from multipe editions to make a more coherent game, with the ability to add more complexity. It appeared to take on that focus with casters, but only gave martial classes a passing glance.
- I miss interesting tactical combat and the "everybody has a role to perform" mindset. I don't miss how god damn long that made encounters.
- I miss getting a choice on how your character progresses every level (beyond the possibility of multiclassing). I don't miss the uniform mediocrity of the AEDU system.
- I miss clearly defined terminology like "Standard Action" and "Basic Attack" instead of "Action" and "Attack Action" where a "Bonus Action where you attack with your off hand weapon" is neither an "Action" nor an "Attack Action".
- I miss the action economy. Specifically, the simplicity of "these are the actions you get, you can do them each once per round" instead of "some things grant you a bonus action but you can only get one per round and its not an extra Action, its a Bonus Action and can only be used for some stuff".
- I miss hybrid classes.
- I miss getting a properly functioning class at level 1 rather than a druid who can't wild shape, a monk without Ki, and a ranger without any actual combat features.
- I miss "attacker always rolls" and casting implements.
- I miss level 1 monster = standard challenge for level 1 PC.
feartheminotaur wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Ramulf wrote:
feartheminotaur wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Uchawi wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
CCS wrote:
grendel111111 wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
I was really hoping for an optional xp-for-gold rule in the dmg. Easy enough to DIY, but it would be nice to not have to do the work myself.
Wow. Have you posted all that stuff anywhere? I wouldn't mind having a look at some of those.
Some PC races like the half-ogre or the raptorans, the template classes from "Savage Progressions", dragons from 2nd Ed or before, classes like hexblade, ninja, samurai, sohei, psionic ardent, and the monster classes from "Savage Species", or dragons PCs from Dragon magazines.
Ramulf wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Let's see. What I miss:
- 3E/3.5E's skills, but not the meagre skill points per level the classes got.
- 3E/3.5E/4E's feats that could branch into multiple different feat links, but not the woefully limited availability of feats per character. Also, Feats at first level.
- 4E's Non-AC Defenses. But not 4E Saving Throws.
- 4E's At-Will Defenders in general.
- 4E's Monks' Full Disciplines.
- 4E's Hybrid Classes. Those were pure, unadulterated cool.
What do I not miss:
- 3E/3.5E's Alignment Class restrictions. Well, being restricted to 5 or 6 alignemnts out of 9 is all fine and dandy. Being restricted to 3 or 1, though? Pass.
- Lack of a Ki Pool as a core feature for Monks.
- 4E's Lack of Monks as a PHB1 Class. That was almost a dealbreaker for me, had it not turn out that 4E Monks were awesome.
- 4E's Alignments. Lack of Chaotic Good/Neutral and Lawful Neutral/Evil was a mistake.
- 3E/3.5E's Base Attack Bonus. Having classes gain BAB at different rates is fine, but having additional attacks being earned at a dwindling rate? And access to said attacks only as a Full Round Action? Thanks, but no thanks.
- 4E's AEDU structure, especially in regards to its antiquated "Fire&Forget" nature of non At-Wills. Having an Encounter Pool and a Daily Pool would have been so much better and natural...
Psikerlord wrote:
Psikerlord wrote:
Psikerlord wrote:
ChrisTheS wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
ChrisTheS wrote:
goaldilmun wrote:
CCS wrote:
seti wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
SilentSin, I agree with you. Ability scores really don't serve a purpose other than to make the numbers look "better". Having a 15 in Strength looks a heck of a lot more important than +2 yet the +2 is what you're primarily going to apply to ANY roll or check. Even with the new Multiclassing system where arbitrary scores are required to gain access to and Strength scores to wear armor without penalty, it's really not even needed. It's just one of those sacred cows that serves no purpose other than to pander, plain and simple.
diffan quoth:miss non-magical healing as a class feature
I understand the 'logic' behind getting rid of the attribute scores... I'm just against it. I would rather they come up with mechanics to give worth to odd values. I don't think making each a bonus is the right way. (15 = +5... no thank you).
They have tried a little, by having some feats give +1 point, by using odd numbers as the requirement for armor and multi-classing. But there could be more.
Perhaps having an odd value gives you 1 reroll per long rest for that attribute. Now a 15 is better than a 14, but it isn't game breaking.
Coredump00 wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
I am strongly in the "get rid of useless numbers" camp. It's tricky, though. Getting rid of the odd useless numbers means also getting rid of some rewards. Even though bumping a score up from 12 to 13 doesn't immediately help you, it still feels like progress. Those odd values are kinda like experience points for ability modifiers.
A fair solution for houseruling the 1-18 numbers out might be to use a .5 decimal system on the modifiers. So 12/+1 is still +1, but 13/+1 is now listed as +1.5. A .5 rounds down on normal checks, and up on proficient or advantageous checks. So a +1.5 is +1 normally, but +2 if proficiency or advantage are in effect. Then when you gain a few levels and bump that up to a full +2, it's just always a +2, (until you bump it again to +2.5).
That's still far from perfect, but it mucks with the rolling system as little as possible, while giving the player a semi-tangeable boost where it used to be strictly superficial. It also continues the goal of making proficiency and advantage important to players. I wouldn't recommend using this exact mod with new players, but vets should be able to handle it without much confusion.
...something about that 18...
Brock_Landers wrote:
pukunui wrote:
SilentSin wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
pukunui wrote:
I miss the fun other editions came with.
Kram-Odlog wrote:
Minions. I miss minions; so much so that I'm considering adding them back into my game.
DM_Nel wrote:
blake_marlowe wrote:
SilentSin wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
Diffan wrote:
SilentSin wrote:
i miss when a player would look at me and say " I try this 'very wierd and utterly insane' thing can i get away with it and live" and having to make a decision because its not covered in the rules....
I miss the assassin as class of its own or the bard that you had to be two other classes before you could be bard.
I don't miss, THAC0, Rolling over to hit and under for skill checks, Kits from 2nd edition. or the rules over codification that began to creep in after 2nd and into 3rd. I most certainly do not miss the number crunching of 3rd and pathfinder where you strive to optimize your character.
some people have mentioned a lack of content for 5e i am going to say here and now there is no lack of content we have 30+ years of modules that we can get for 5 dollars or less in some cases from drivethrurpg. com and we can modify them with relative ease and barring that we have our own imaginations to work from to build worlds and adventures why the hell are you waiting for WoTC to give us content.
Someone also made the comment about calling this edition the DIY edition of D&D and to that i say Every Edition of D&D has been DIY since the beginning Gary Gygax and all the guys at TSR gave us the basis for the game it is up to us to run with it to make it our own.
Warlord, Warforged, attacker always rolls, NADS. Those are the first ones I think of.
The last 2 posts, really say it all.
I would have prefered:
- a bit more believability in the rules
- no class-specific mechanics that only exist to differentiate classes
- real save or die/suck effects
- better monster math
- more interesting martial options
- ability scores that don't increase with level and don't contribute as much to the game math
Core-Earth-Stormer wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Diffan wrote:
I miss Character Kits from AD&D (2E).
Backgrounds are awesome, but Kits are a step further, I guess. Having both would (will?) be just awesome.
I also miss Larry Elmore, Jeff Easley, Tony Di'Terlizzi, Brom, Valerie Valusek, Clyde Caldwell, Fred Fields, Keith Parkinson...
I know the books are coming (and I hope for boxed sets!), but I'll say it any way: I'd love to see Forgoten Realms, Dragonlance, Raveloft and Dark Sun for 5E. And maybe Greyhawk, Mystara...
Shasarak wrote:
I miss...
... the excitement of running 1st Edition for the first time, and thinking about all the possibilities...
Coredump00 wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
The OGL is responsible for creating some of the best books on the market. I'm also more than capable of ignoring the vast majority of the OGL material out there.
JohnLynch wrote:
Diffan wrote:
JohnLynch wrote:
~~From 4E things I miss are (in no particular order):
-Bloodied condition status
-constant movement in combat (pushes, pulls, slides, etcetera) vs. the return to largely immobile combats
-Healing surges
-5 minute short rest and 8 hour long rest (the option in the DMG only gives the option for a 5 minute short rest and an hour long rest. To me this is too much but the baseline 5E is too little.
-Cleric attacks that actually heal an ally or grant a saves. So the cleric is getting to attack for a small amount of damage and fulfill the leader role at the same time.
-Clearly defined class roles with mechanics to actually support the role.
-Magic item Parcel system or the magic markets that existed in both 3rd and 4th edition.
-The Battle field control via spells that was present in both 3rd and 4th edition. The control spells in 5E I feel are nerfed to the point of being worthless (besides sleep…at least for levels 1-3), but overall Mike Mearls preference for the blaster caster style caster shows in the core PHB.
-I miss psionics and look forward to a psionic supplement coming soon.
-A robust production schedule. Every edition of DnD except 5E had a robust schedule with 2E being the most productive of all (TSR had several campaign worlds: Mystara, Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Al-Qadim, Planescape, Ravenloft, Spelljammer, Dragonlance, Birthright, and Darksun) all in existence at the same time. They were producing almost monthly crunchy expansions for each world plus he stuff for mainline DnD like the Complete Fighter, Cleric, etc. 3rd and 4e had a robust schedule and Pathfinder has tons of crunchy expansions, but 5E producing at a snails pace and going with more campaign oriented fluffy books I personally think is a mistake, because in my experience rules lawyers/powergamers etc tend to buy more books than the "Deep" Role-playing sorts and thus crunchy expansions help sales. And yes, I'm sure Pathfinder campaign books sell very well but every time Pathfinder has come out with a crunchy expansion aimed at PCs like the Advanced Classes Guide, etc the books tend to sell out almost instantly when released.
Diffan wrote:
Caliburn wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
diffan quoth:miss non-magical healing as a class feature
you could fluff inspiring leader that way. ditto the bard.
EsperOfNovaura wrote:
EsperOfNovaura wrote:
I miss there being a clear statement of what I could or could not do to add to the game. OGL for example. I miss that it allowed others to step up and fill in small gaps or offer additional settings etc.
RCanine wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
I miss minions, Warlords, and bloodied (4e)
I miss the feeling of expanding frontiers to explore / develop (3.5e FRCG)
I miss having so much new stuff to look at in the hobby shop, that my mom could finish shopping for my new clothes before I was done browsing. (2 / 3e)
I miss an OGL that allowed me to dream about printing my own adventure module and get paid for it.
I don't miss having to wade through a spell list that weighed about 35 lbs when put all together, to decide which ones I was going to bring to the convention (3 / 3.5e)
I don't miss having to be DPR-optimized to accomplish goals / survive the Battle Interactive (4e).
I don't miss rolling for stats and discovering the only thing my character would be good at ... was the least effective class for the proposed campaign (2e Ranger in a city).
I don't miss reading the OGL and discovering I would have to take a class in Advanced Legal before I could translate it into workaday English.
RCanine wrote:
i miss being able to play a Vampire, Werewolf, and Revenant
Much of this can be house ruled, but here goes.
I miss the optional infravision (infrared) rules from the 2e DMG. - FYI, in 2e infravision was just darkvision by default.
I miss being able to find a game that does not include non-magical healing (i.e hit dice,second wind, etc)
I'm dismayed that ability scores don't mean anything, only the bonuses do. - they could have added another column to the abiliy score chart.
I miss the roll under method for skill checks. - no option either.
I miss not being restricted by shared actions for animal companions and familiars.
I miss having rule books with useful headers and footers - for example, the DMG has the same faded footer on 100 pages, making it impractical as a functional game book.
I miss Wraithform and several old school other spells.
I miss Dungeon Magazine.
I miss several cool weapons, armor types. and multi-damage type weapons (ie. S/P/B)
I miss the need for a cleric and/or divine healing.
I miss the generalist wizard.
I miss having light armor wearing dex based warriors who didn't suck.
I miss wearing elven chain and thinking is was good armor. Passed that up for non magic full plate in 5e.
I miss really cool magic items, and being level 17 and having several of them on my person instead of one or two +1 items.
I miss content, 1e, 2e, 3e, 4e had tons of content. There was tons of it with the edition releases (okay, not so much for 1e but it grew).
I miss Dragon and Dungeon Magazine. Content every month.
Vyshaantyr wrote:
More granular damage reduction rules.
"Resistance/magic" is no replacement for "10/+2". I'd take the latter any day. I'd take a compromise, as well. Something like:
- Resistance/+1 for CR 1-10
- Resistance/+2 for CR 11-20
- Resistance/+3 for CR 21+
ankiyavon wrote: