I especially want to hear from people, like myself, who aren't exactly the biggest fans of 5e currently.
There is a common refrain when complaints are leveled at 5e about...gaps...in the system to wait for the DMG, as if the DMG will be some panacea. And perhaps it will be!
What needs to be in the DMG for you to be satisfied? For those that don't currently like 5e but are hoping the DMG provides the options/modules you want, what are you hoping for?
Since the DMG seems to be set up as the vehicle for recreating older edition experiences (rather than the hodge-podge uniqueness of "straight" 5e), it might be interesting to include your preferred edition of D&D along with your hopes, as a sort of context.
I will list the things the DMG should include for brevity:
- Environmental hazards, and Weather.
- Traps
- Magical Items
- Encounter Design, and Adventure Design (for novice DMs)
- Adjudicating player disputes
- NPC tables, guidelines and suggestions.
- Customizing Monsters & NPCs
- Sundry DM advice
Additional things we have been told it will include (but which are not necessary) are:
- Optional and Variant rules, and systems (eg. leveling/XP, HP and healing, Tactical grid combat, etc).
- Mass Battle Rules
- Death Domain, and Blackguard Paladin
- Warforged & Kender
Things I would like to see (but won't be butt-hurt about)
- More information for the Shadowfell, Feywild, and other common planes
- Information about the Blood War (even just a small sub-heading)
- Demon lords and Archfiends (descriptions and motivations, not stats)
- Temporal and Planar travel
- Short setting descriptions of the major settings (Dragonlance, Birthright, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Eberron, etc). Enough to inspire DMs
- NPC stats for major iconic characters (Elminster, Raistlin, Mordenkainen, Drizzt, Tasselhoff Burrfoot)
- Commerce, and variant ecconomic models.
I don't want any more than a chapter's worth of setting information. The section in the 4e DMG on the Nentir Vale, and Fallcrest as starting examples was more than enough.
It needs a section on improvisational GMing. If it talks about "Yes, and..." I might be sold right there.
It needs a system for handling the common questions about non-combat encounters: how high the DCs, how many rolls to call for, when is it failed, how can failure be made interesting, how much XP to award. I'm not asking for skill challenges, but the skill challenge rules at least provided answers to all of those, even if no one liked them. Not providing any answers to those is an unforgiveable oversight and any time I see someone ask one of those decades-old-questions in the context of 5e, I will point out that the DMG could have answered them but didn't.
It needs a discussion on alternate goals. It took 4e until the DMG2 to really even talk about those, but they are vital. Encounter design will always be an art, and failure will always be possible. Alternate goals, for monsters and players, mean that a lot of burden comes off the math, which has never been great at carrying it.
For that matter, it needs a discussion on how to handle character death. Not a single edition has dealt with this, and it's long been a major source of contention. 5e seems to pride itself on making encounters more deadly than in 4e, but 4e got where it was because GMs have never known how to handle character death. This is 5e's chance to really be new and different: talk about handling death, with various options and what they result in at the table.
Modules. Tons of modules. More modules than you can shake a stick at, then twice that much. Healing options. Tactical options. Classless options. Levelless options. Prestige/Paragon options. Those and more.
Centauri wrote:
What does the DMG need?
Short answer: everything!
Aside from the usual DMG things (magic items, and so on) these are specific things that I am expecting to see in the DMG:
- Caster resource variants (spell points, and so on)
- Variant MC rules (I hate 3e multi-classing. Support for the AD&D 2e style version, which is similar to 4e's hybrids, is definitely wanted)
- The tactical combat module, and a well-done version of it at that
- Skill variants (other skill lists, skill dice, and so on)
- and so on
As I'm already very satisfied my list is pretty small:
- Interesting, flavorful and numerous magic items.
- An assortment of easy to implement variant rules and sliders that will allow for fans of every edition to be as satisfied as I am.
In no particular order:
- Guidelines on making good use of one's prep time and/or eliminating traditional prep work and focusing on improvisation
- Clear examples on when to agree an action just succeeds and when to roll the dice.
- How to make failure interesting and drive the game forward
- How to deal with iteration time (getting players back into action after character death)
- Instructions on how to differentiate challenge and difficulty when building scenes
- A section on how to adequately telegraph situations and, for that matter, how to build interesting situations in the first place
- How to pace the game experience
- Instructions for DMs on the improvisational technique known as "Yes, and..."
We are already using a small assortment of houserules brought over from 4E, so I don't really care whether they appear in the DMG, but they might be useful to others who never played 4E. These include 4E-style starting hp and beefier defender mechanics, among other things. In that vein, I'd like to see an assortment of options along those lines, hopefully including a bunch of small tweaks I'd have never considered on my own.
I don't really want an Unearthed Arcana type of book full of optional rules, but I fear anything less will enrage a large segment of the fan base.
I'd liike to see some inspiration and rules for supporting different types of campaigns than those in which we usually play, such as nautical themes and combat rules.
At the top of my must list would be a full accounting of magic items-- how to balance them within the game system, how to craft them, value/pricing guidelines, and anything needed to run an economy like that of Eberron, where magic is a daily part of life.
A magic item market sort of demands some clear guidelines for character wealth, so that should likely be part of this, also. I'd like to be able to play Eberron (or other similar high magic settings) without that gold-piece driven arms race that has typified previous editions. Ideas on how to get the best of both worlds are welcome, if they have come up with such a solution.
There is a lot I'm hoping to see, I guess. Anything related to monster building that is not included in the MM is a natural must for the DMG. I'm not sure where to expect that type of info, truly. History suggests it will be in the DMG, but many seem to believe the MM. We will know soon enough.
Gazra wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Centauri wrote:
Common plot outlines.
Common tropes/experiences & elements needed to recreate them.
Table management.
-in person
-online
-PBP
-Tableau Vivant
-TotM
Mapping 101 & 201.
Foreshadowing & call forwards
Callbacks
How to Dial it up to 11
One of the best D&D suppliments for any RPG was the 2e Campaign Sourebook & Catacomb guide. It had guidelines on HOW to run the game. How to deal with problem players, missing players, distracting players, players who change their mind on actions when they find out it's not so good for them...
Wanted to add that they need a comprehensive section on how to teach DMs to make rulings. Something for both new DMs and old ones who picked up bad habits from previous games. If they're going to make a game that is supposedly about "rulings over rules," they really need to spend some time teaching their DMs how to make good rulings in this game system.
Yes but...
Yes and...
It amounts to the same thing in practice when done right, but I do see how the former can be abused by some DMs who interpret the "but" as equivalent to "no".
iserith wrote:
Centauri wrote:
bawylie wrote:
Kalani wrote:
I don't know. "Make failure interesting" is fine. But something more comprehensive. "Dial it up."
"cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war."
"gimme fuel gimme fire gimme that which I desire."
something like that has more mileage than make failure interesting.
I generally favor "yes, and. . ." but there are times when "yes, but . . ." has been necessary.
Usually I have found that "yes, but . . ." is only necessary when a player is asking too much, or when a player is very close to butting up against one of the core restrictions of my setting.
MechaPilot wrote:
Foxface wrote:
Gazra wrote:
A way for non-mages to get hordes of disposable minions.
I don't need anything. Missing domains? I'm using homebrew so I don't need them. No rules for dominions? No problem I'm happy to convert ACKS.
I also note many complaints are getting "it'll be in the DMG" and I also think the DMG is being oversold.
What I'd like guidelines for though is:
* Dominions/Strongholds/Followers
* Henchmen and Hirelings
* Creating classes, subclasses, races, spells, monsters, feats.
* Adventure design including short rests per day.
* Tweaking short rests.
* Combat maneuvers
* Facing rules
* Multiple AoO
* Running adventures without clerics
* Variant XP tables
* Poisons
* Traps
* Magic items and how they affect power levels
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I want total rules transperency so I can build my own races, classes, NPCs, traps, backgrounds, monsters, magic items, balance stuff, etc.
I also want grid-based combat at least outlined (Although, in using the free Basic PDF, I've just been running fights like 4e. So, that's not really necessary for me, but it should be in there none the less). Also, I'd like to see hex-based and square based systems, with templates.
I want conversion guides for every edition. Specifically, I want to be able to make 5e 'attacker always rolls' house rules without too much pain.
I want magic items as well as exotic materials/masterwork rules.
I want more explanation of 'down time' activities for PCs.
I want 'Page 42'.
I want practical advice for new DMs...Many DMG's in the past dropped the ball on this, IMO.
I want some cool random genraters/tables for dungeons, treasure, weather, lots of stuff. Even if I don't actually roll on them, I want them there as just inspirational material.
I want a photocopyable blank monster sheet, and blank NPC sheet.
World-building should be explained for those who want/need that. People have to be incouraged to break away from FR if they want.
I want firearms, air and naval ship rules, and at least some mention of steampunk/arcanepunk, prehistoric, Greco-Roman, Pre-colombian, and other potential settings that do not fit the mold of 13th-14th century Europe.
All of that should nicely fill up 320 or whatever pages. 
Most of this stuff has been said, and probably will be there, so I am excited to finally get my hand on it in November.
MechaPilot wrote:
Gazra wrote:
YES... Page 42 was awesome in 3.X (or was it 4E, I forget). Douglas Adams easter egg FTW.
For those who were not aware:
Page 42 was the DMGs rules regarding issues the Rules don't cover. IIRC, it said - add a +2 or -2 modifier, in addition to a few other things.
It was the DMs answer to life, the universe and everything. I loved it.
Kalani wrote:
I don't have my 3.5 DMG on me at present (Its at my son's house). It would be even funnier if it was in both of WoTCs editions however.
You are correct, in 4E, it was more than just an ad hoc ruling. Page 42, "Additional Rules: Actions the Rules Don't Cover" was its exact name.
I state again - It was the DMs answer to life, the universe, and everything.... My only question is, what was the DMs question :P (and don't say 6x9)
MechaPilot wrote:
Centauri wrote:
In no specific order:
- Alternative to the (neo-)vancian magic system for all spellcasters
- Alternative healing system and options to allow playing without reliance on magical healing
- ToTM support (meaning abstract zones and area of effect handled via dice rolling, as opposed to real world measures and references)
- Option for turning spells saving throws into attacks against ability-based defenses
- Guidelines for altering the scope of magic in the game to suit different genres (high fantasy, sword & sorcery, low magic...)
- Alternative OA mechanics
- Options for lenght of short and long rests and ways to balance that
- Exposed math for monsters to allow cutomizing and scaling them easily
There is more, but this would make for a solid base to me.
I think there is only one thing I'm looking for and that's the complete removal of non-magical healing in all it's forms.
As for the "Yes, and" style of play, let it remain in the game it originated from, which is not D&D.
I also hope that the DMG comes with a warning label regarding the risk of spontaneous combustion at the mention of page 42 of the 4e DMG.
Here are a few I consider essential
1. A method for crafting more traditional healing systems. No massive recovery without magic.
2. Rules for replacing specific mechanics with equivalent ones to eliminate those that are dissociative.
Here are some really nice to haves.
1. Reveal the secret sauce when it comes to mechanical construction of the classes and how they balance. This supports #2 above but is more extensive.
2. Secret sauce for the monsters as well.
3. Wilderness survival guide kind of stuff so the next generation has it. I personally own the WSG so I'm okay.
4. Good wandering monster charts by region.
5. Great aids for crafting your own world. Pantheons, Nations, and so forth.
6. Good advice on dungeon building.
Centauri wrote:
From reddit, this is SUPPOSEDLY a leak of what will be in the table of contents of the DMG from a SUPPOSEDLY reliable source.
highlights:
- costs to construct building
- costs for hirelings
- downtime activites (most of which have a 20% chance of going to jail for 5d6 days)
- domains (kingdom builder rules)
- using miniatures!!!
- travel hazards
- diseases
- poisons
- madness
- traps
- puzzles
- modifying races
- creating new races
- monsters as characters
- modifying classes
optional rules:
- training to level up
- trading in magic items
- flanking
- attacking cover
- morale
- action points
- called shots
- alternate skill systems (13th age backgrounds are an option)
- vitality
- spell points
- skill points
- single strike (1 attack roll, cumulative damage)
- second wind
- rest variants
- proficiency dice
- massive damage
- marking
- facing
- cleaving through the horde
- automatic success
- chases
- cantrip slots
- action points (again?)
- group initiative
- weapon speed
- passive initiative
- gestalt characters
Centauri wrote:
Eerongal wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
A section on creating house rules. In our case additional skills, additional attributes, alternate HD and HP, creating professions and backgrounds.
Things I thing should automaticaly be included in the DMG:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Rules for tactical grid based combat
-optional rules for short rest to make then shorter (or longer) than an hour. I prefer shorter
-Optional healing mechanics like healing surges as opposed to hit dice and also options on how fast/slow natural healing occurs
-Class based options for example mechanics to modify classes to better fit into roles
-more information on how to make sure encounters don't exceed PC capabilities
-rules on hazards such as various weather conditions and so forth
-Basic GM advice (how to deal with problem players, basic mapping, running different types of villians, GMing on the fly the usual stuff)
-Guidelines for creating your own races and classes
-Advanced classes (Prestige classes/Paragon paths)
-Retraining rules
-A small chapter detailing an a starting point kind of like the chapter on Fallcrest and the Nentir Vale in the 4E DMG. I imagine since 5E uses DnD Forgotten Realms as the de facto setting this may detail the town of Shadowdale or the City of Waterdeep and surrounding areas or some such just a ready pre-made starting point for some DMs to have, who might not want to use published adventures but run their own homebrew FR campaign or the even a homebrew non-FR campaign but just need help in developing a good kick off point.
seti wrote:
Eerongal wrote:
Eerongal wrote:
edwin_su wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
Centauri wrote:
As an aside, I am in a chicken and egg situation. I hope you guys who do buy the DMG right off will explain the rules they are offering. I've vowed to buy nothing from Wotc if they don't come through in the DMG.
A section on different playstyle approaches - improvisational, collaborative, sandbox, scripted, top down, fiat, immersive, simulationist, effect-therefore-cause, etc etc etc - and why they are all equally good and equally appropriate in different situations and for different people.
If for no other reason than to stop the derailing of every single forum thread from now until the end of time.
...more extensive "Attack of Opportunity" rules might be nice too...
Emerikol. wrote:
Centauri wrote:
Centauri wrote:
Gazra wrote:
Gazra wrote:
Gazra wrote:
Emerikol. wrote:
Cherry Pie and Gravy sounds like something the Doctor would eat.... Fishsticks and Custard anyone?
Kalani wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
Centauri wrote:
Gazra wrote:
Centauri wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Kalani wrote:
seti wrote:
Centauri wrote:
docdoom77 wrote:
Centauri wrote:
Not sure why some think page 42 would be good for 5th Ed, as it is just tables of treadmill scaling DCs and damage values, which means crap for BA.
Centauri wrote:
Centauri wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
ankiyavon wrote:
The DMG should be able to address small gaps like changing a specific class ability, or replace systems like spell points for vancian, but I believe it will have a really hard time replacing what people consider big gaps. For instance, what I want in reference to a system similar to spells that grants martial ability. When you see the big gaps in the core classes, nothing short of rewriting a class or section of the rules will suffice. So at least I don't have high expectations and I still have time to play some more games to determine if I will stay for a while or move on.
A simple and repeatable framework for levels twenty-one to infinity.
Qmark wrote:
Variant rules, variant rules, and more variant rules. I usually hate DMGs because all they are is lists of stuff (most of which I will never use), so I'm hoping this has more roleplaying/rules content and fewer lists of stuff.
docdoom77 wrote:
What I need from the DMG is as followed.
- Advice and tools for world building.
- Addition races and traits along with guidence on creating new races.
- Tips on organizing campaign information and prepping a game session.
- Advice on crafting exploration and social encounters/adventures.
- Healing module for removing HD.
- Warlords.
iserith wrote:
The DMG needs a section called "The DM Toolkit. Using the right tool for the right job to reinforce the play experience that's right for your table."
1) When to say "Yes".
2) When to say "Yes. and..."
3) When to say "No".
4) When to say "No, but...".'
dmgorgon wrote:
iserith wrote:
I'd like a complete dungeonmaster to climb out of the book when you open it. But only if he/she will also babysit my children, do dishes, and sing rousing dwarven battle songs.
Seriously, though, I want randomized tables. Encounters, terrain, NPCs, etc., etc. And maybe a list of common obstacles/situations with some DCs so I feel like my judgments of DC are more standardized.
iserith wrote:
DemoMonkey wrote:
Oh, I just thought of one, though I know it probably isn't going to happen...
Chapter numbers on each page!!
dmgorgon wrote:
Foxface wrote:
Mechagamera wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
KaribouOfDoom wrote:
KaribouOfDoom wrote:
Centauri wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
KaribouOfDoom wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Centauri wrote:
Lady_Auralla wrote:
KaribouOfDoom wrote:
Lady_Auralla wrote:
Centauri wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
Foxface wrote:
Atheosis wrote:
Atheosis wrote:
Foxface wrote:
My group and I decide to run a game in Lankhmaar so I should let a player choose Vorlon Technomancer?!?
Anyway back on topic.
Apart from the Domain Rules I crave I'd like to see good rules for;
spell construction
monster building
Sub class building
Probably all mentioned already but I got lost in the off topic conversation
Brock_Landers wrote:
Foxface you have yet to give us your stance on the bacon debate we were having care to share?
Arawn76 wrote:
Lady_Auralla wrote:
Foxface wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
Foxface wrote:
Shirebrok wrote:
Centauri wrote:
Not going to bother reading all 100+ entries in this thread and I'm sure most of these have been stated but here's my list.
- Rules for designing custom background features and subclasses.
- Expanded planes and planar travel that was presented in Appendix C of the PHB.
- Brief descriptions of the popular campaign settings.
- World and adventure building 101.
- Variant rules such as a new spellcasting method.
- Interesting magical items and artifacts.
- A short, sample adventure and campaign springboard like they did in 4e. Since they're doubling down and making FR the default setting, I would really like them to reprint the 2e FR campaign setting's starting adventure in Shadowdale. It was my first adventure and what drew me to the game and I would love a little nostalgia.
Atheosis wrote:
Arawn76 wrote:
Centauri wrote:
An advice hotline ran by "famous" DMs - Chris Perkins, I'm looking at you.
But in all seriousness, I think handling table conflict (seperate from party conflict) should have a mention.
I'd like to see quick tips on how to build different kinds of encounters - tactical, alternate goal encounters, etc.
bawylie and iserith have written about things like that and have written up examples, but I just love new book smell.
Kalani wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Melwick wrote:
Centauri wrote:
Lady_Auralla wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Lady_Auralla wrote:
I just want my classic bacony goodness.
Centauri wrote:
Lady_Auralla wrote:
Brightmantle wrote:
Brightmantle wrote:
Centauri wrote: