Between the playtest and the packet, what has changed?
1: Crit rules. Roll your dice twice. (rougly 50% bonus damage, vs the previous 100%).
2: Cure wounds. 1d8+Mod.
3: Most races: now get +2 / + 1 stats.
4: Elves: Proficency in perception.
Others?
Proficiency bonus: starts at +2 at level 1.
4 types of actions: Actoin, move, bonus action, and reaction
Fireball and Lightning Bolt default to 8d6 damage when cast with a 3rd level slot. In the playest, they did 6d6 damage by default.
This is kind of a significant change, 8d6 damage is a huge amount at level 5 when a mage first gains the use of 3rd level slots.
Scaling is stil 1d6 per additional level.
Disengage: No changes to your movement, you simply don't provoke OAs (vs. 1/2 movement and no OAs)
Standing from Prone: No longer requires all your current move, instead requires 1/2 your total move; you can not stand up iif you have less.
Ranged Attacks in Melee: Ranged attacks (whether by wepaon or spell) are made at disadvantage if you are within 5 ft of an opponent who can take actions.
Also, Mello, slight correction on one of yours:
Critical Hits: Roll all damage dice twice, then add modifiers. This would include a Rogue's Snack Attack damage dice, for example.
Cantrip Damage: Ray of Frost and Sacred Flame max out at 4d8 at level 17.
There is no "Hinder" action. Only "Help".
There are also some rules for mounted combat, controlling a mount and underwater rules.
Terrific tables for backgrounds (flaws, traits, bonds, etc.)
Karnos wrote:
Rogues sneak attack caps out at 10d6. Rogues get 1d8 hit dice. (Yay, rogues are a good/well balanced class now! Sweet. They were the one class I was really worried about.)
Dwarves no longer get a +1 AC bonus when wearing medium or heavy armor, but they do get a +2 (instead of +1) bonus to Strength. (Yay to this too.)
Cantrips now only scale to 4 dice of damage. And, even better, haste cannot be used to cast cantrips! (Yay. The biggest balance problem with wizards, other than trap the soul, is fixed!)
I am loving what I am seeing. I am very happy that I preordered all 3 books after reading this packet.
Ability score improvements are now +2 to a stat OR +1 to 2 stats.
Humans have a "Feat at 1st level" variant (which will have to wait until we get feats to see use).
Multiclassing requires the stat minimum for the class you are entering AND leaving, and doesn't necessarily give you all the proficiencies of your new class (which will have to wait until we get the full multiclassing rules to use).
Karnos wrote:
Plate armor costs only 1500, down from 5000.
Fighters had quite a few major nerfs. Defy death was removed. Advantage to all saving throws was removed, and replaced by a limited per day reroll of failed saves. Damage on a miss fighting style was removed.
Two Weapon Fightig uses a bonus action. This means you cannot use cunning action and two weapon fighting.
Mage spell damage was buffed significantly. Overchanneled Meteor Swarm does 240 damage!!!
Since when is Meteor Swarm a 5th level or lower spell, Lawolf? You cannot overchannel it. You might not be able to use cunning action and two weapon fighting in the same round, but your sneak attack is 3d6 higher and your hit dice are d8 in size. Rogues got a net buff. Fighters were a little overpowered. Their nerf is probably a good thing. Meanwhile, their damage capabilities are still through the roof. Two uses of action surge at level 20 means two rounds in which you can make 8, maybe 9, attacks. That is bad [bleeped]!
Check out paralyzation...it's a killer.
incapacitated
auto fail strength/dex checks
attacks against paralyzed creature are at advantage
and
attacks from within 5' that hit the paralyzed creature are "Crits"!!!!! ouch.
Rogues get Dex & Int save proficiency.
Two handed style lets you reroll 1' and 2's on damage dice, so a maul or great sword does 6-12 with the average around 9 before strength modifiers.
Encumbrance is Str x15, so you can just ignore it for the most part or you a variant that starts penalties at Str x 5.
Cyber-Dave wrote:
Low-Light Vision has been merged into Darkvision, and elves now get Darkvision.
Well,more or less,everything is already said.
Point buy now is 27 instead of 30,so no stat higher than 15 before racial now (at least no point value for higher stats).
Humans are still bland with +1 to all stats.
Dwarfs seem a bit nerfed. Most of proficiencies they get are useless (axes,light and med armor),they lose +1 to ac. One gets +2 to str,other +1 wis which has no sense at all.
Elfs lost advantage on perception checks.
Rogues got buffed. D8 hit dice,sneak attack progesses faster and caps at 10d6
Clerics get shield proficiency by default now.
Proficiency bonus starts from +2 now.
Overall,not bad. But that are only changes i seen on the quick glance.
Cleric's ability to destroy undead by using turn undead is now fixed by both the cleric's level and the undead's Challenge Rating, rather than by the undead'd remaining hi tpoints.
No rule for Coup-de-grace, unless I missed it.
Cyber-Dave wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
Fallen_Star_02 wrote:
Cyber-Dave wrote:
I'm still reading the whole rules but apparently, you no longer need to have your implement to gain your proficiency bonus to your spell DC.
Can we maybe keep this one thread for just listing the changes, for informational purposes, rather than editorializing or debating them?
Potent cantrip no longer does anything!!!
All cantrips (?) are now magic attack rolls. Potent cantrip does 1/2 damage when the target succeeds at a saving throw.
What is the deal with potent cantrip? It says cantrips still do half damage if the target makes a saving throw. That would be nice, but the cantrips listed all require a ranged attack roll, and don't include the option to roll a saving throw.
Is it a typo, and cantrips are supposed to do half damage on a *miss*?
There will probably be save based cantrips in the PHB.
They don't have a charge action any more, casters gain their primary ability mod to # of spells they can prepare. They added a rule for Concentration and taking damage. DC 10 Con Save or 1/2 damage, whichever is higher. Looks like some of the powers were changed at what level they receive them. Like 1/2 damage on Cantrips for Evokers at 6th level instead of 5th, but Adding Int Mod to damage at 10th instead of 12th. Etc.
Expertise for Rogues got nerfed-ish but not really. haha. Starts with 2 skills instead of 4, but adds double proficiency bonus instead of +5. At 6th level they get 2 more skills. So eventually it gets better, but starts out worse.
Turn Undead wording is different. Without monster stats too hard to tell how worthless it is; but appears to be even more useless than before. Destroying undead is now based off their challenge rating instead of hit points for no apparent reason.
Divine Intervention automatically succeeds at 20th level.
Life Clerics' Channel Divinity Heal everyone power extended from 25' to 30'. They received a new ability where at level 6 they heal hit points as well when healing others.
Great Weapon Fighting is now basically like the "Brutal" weapon feature from 4e. Re-roll a 1 or 2 on damage, but must take new result. So could still be hosed with a 1 or 2.
Archery gives +2 to hit instead of +1
There's no longer any "low-light" vision, it's now all just darkvision or regular.
Protection fighter ability you now must be using a shield.
"Adventurer's Kit" is now called "Explorer's Kit."
Rogue is the only class that gets Tool Proficiencies. Dwarves is the only race that gets tool proficiencies.
The backgrounds are largely "meh," now only giving 2 skillz instead of 3. But they each include charts for the Bonds, Ideals, Flaws, etc. Which is snazzy.
Search is now called Investigation
Second Wind uses a bonus action and "regains" hp instead of adding temp.
You can now pay monies and spend time to gain proficiency in tools and languages, but apparently not skills??
Lifestyle costs are significantly cheaper
Etc. Etc. Etc.
I can foresee some questions with fighters and 2 weapon fighting.
1) Normally you don't get a bonus action unless something gives you one.
2) 2 wpn fighting, if you're wielding a light weapon, you can take a bonus action to atk w/ offhand light wpn (Paraphrasing)
3) Action Surge, you can take another action and a possible bonus action.
4) Normally you can only take 1 bonus action apparently.
5) specific beats general though. soooooooooooo I can foresee some people wondering if a fighter w/ 2 weapons that uses action surge, if he'd get 2 bonus attacks or what. I would assume not personally; but who knows.
That would be pretty sexy a 2 weapon fighter at level 20 that action surges... if all that stuff stacked.
4 regular attacks, 1 offhand attack
action surges for 1 additional action (which would beg the question, since fighters get the extra attacks when they take the attack action)
Soooooooooo "potentially," if all that stuff does add up, a 20th level fighter that is fighting with 2 weapons and makes an action surge would theoretically get:
10 attacks?!? wooooooooooooooo "seems legit." I'm "assuming" that isn't correct. haha.
Speaking of bonus actions, Haste was nerfed so that the extra attack / action thingy has to be a weapon attack instead of a cantrip.
And oodles n oodles more stuffs. haha.
FFSAA wrote:
mellored wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
SwampDog wrote:
mellored wrote:
Sweet. You can acquire new languages and tool proficiencies for free using the training rules.
I'm a little sad the Noble background wasn't included in the Basic pdf.
No ritual version for Knock.
Luciender wrote:
Rhenny wrote:
Yeah coup de grace is now just an attack against an unconscios character.
Right, and if the target survives the critical damage, they've got two strikes against them on their death saves, which could be enough to kill them too if they've already had one or two failed saves.
Earthquake has been nerfed again.
Removing charge as an action seems very significant. Feat maybe?
mellored wrote:
I haven't posted on these forums in ages, but now that the playtest is out I might as well ask a few questions.
Did the designers not say that the speed of dwarves and halflings would be the same as everyone else?
How do all these half-move actions work with a speed of 25? Do we round up or down?
Are they going to add other options for healing?. It seems very strange that you regain all your lost hit points at the end of a long rest. Perhaps I'm just looking for more of those realism side bars.
kev777 wrote:
kev777 wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Tony_Vargas wrote:
Bless was slightly nerfed. Instead of affecting all designated creatures within 25' it is now three designated creatures within 30'. The spell scales as more creatures can be included if the spell is cast at a higher level. Still one of my favorite cleric spells.
kev777 wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
kev777 wrote:
LupusRegalis wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
pukunui wrote:
kev777 wrote:
kev777 wrote:
Polaris wrote:
Well, not that the game needs defending, but if the healing rules feel too soft for you, they have already said there will be variations in the DMG. Seems obvious dropping hit dice will be an option. If you arent creative enough to houserule healing where you want it, you probably arent a good candidate for a D&D DM, as the game is historically built on making the game your own. Its true the basic game is a work in progress; they have said they will be adding monsters and other classes to it. A good thing, by most folks' standards. So yeah, its unfinished but no need to act like you have to go into hibernation for a year in a time capsule then come back to get anything out of it. The whiny hyperbole is so transparent and pathetic at this point that its just kind of stupid.
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Polaris wrote:
frothsof wrote:
pukunui wrote:
FWIW, it has had two years' worth of mileage via the public playtest. I don't think things are going to change much from here on out. It's going to be more additive than anything else.
kev777 wrote:
awogaman wrote:
In a nice parallel to melee/finesse, one can now use strength instead of dex with thrown weapons.
I take "On your turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and a possible bonus action. " to mean: "your extra, action-surge action doesn't count as a bonus action, so you'd have your normal action (which may include multiple attacks), a bonus action if you have one, and your action surge action.
Dreamstryder wrote:
Polaris wrote:
Something I noticed in the Cleric's chart: monsters are ranked by CR again instead of Level.
Lord_Kyrion wrote:
I like most of what I see, but note concentration can be broken with damage, which is a serious drawback. Also Fighter Action surge is OP (not broken at low levels, probably broken at higher levels). I do think the wording of second wind (usable on your "turn") limits it to in combat only, which is cool. Haste appears to only give one extra weapon attack (not multiple attacks?), so that's fine, although with concentration as a requirement I cant see it being used very much, probably better off casting something else most time.
But mostly, yeah, I like a lot of what I see. Excited for PHB, MM and DMG (oh hell and Starter set!).
Edit - they fixed that always on fighter adv on saves thing, good change. Also revivify - yuck!! wont be in our game.
kev777 wrote:
Eric888 wrote:
edwin_su wrote:
Acid and alchemists fire both buffed.
Batman rogue or Batman fighter?
The new rules for critical hits as well as the new rules for the Great Weapon Fighting style render Greataxes categorically inferior to Greatswords and Mauls, which makes my axe-wielding dwarf fighter sad! 
Eric888 wrote:
AH_schulerta wrote:
kev777 wrote:
"Charge
To charge, you choose a target that is at least
feet away from you. You move up to half your
speed to a position where that target is within
your reach, and then you make a melee attack
against it. After the attack, your turn ends.
That is Charge from the last packet. I see absolutely no point to it."
It let you attack something that was up to a total of 1.5 x your move speed away from you at the start of your turn. So with a 30' speed you could reach, and attack, a target 45' away.
With no charge action, you can only reach and attack a target 30' away from you.
The effect of the change is to increase the effectiveness of ranged/magic attacks because it will sometimes take an extra round to get into melee.
Edited for punctuation.
DemoMonkey wrote:
kev777 wrote:
re: What has changed?
Cure Wounds is now 1d8 + casting stat modifier, instead of 2d8 +2. +1d8 for each higher level it is cast at, instead of +2d8 per level.
Healing word is now 1d4+ casting stat modifier, instead of 1d8+2. +1d4 for each higher level it is cast at, instead of +1d8 per level.
Charge meant you could walk down corridor and turn a corner, and then move a bit more and attack them
Anyone with starter set say how much xp goblin is worth?
Goblins are CR 1/4 and worth 50 xp.
As I thought it might be after the monster preview, it seems that CR is tied to experience, just like level and xp value in 4E.
0 = 10 xp
1/8 = 25
1/4 = 50
1/2 = 100
1 = 200
2 = 450
3 = 700
and so on.
Thanks
kev777 wrote:
thewok wrote:
Not sure if these have been mentioned or if they were already changed in the last playtest packet I never playtested.
Halflings' luck feature is now unlimited use, any 1 can be rerolled, instead of a limited number of times per day.
They seem to have removed the automatic bonus languages for high Intelligence and replaced it with some backgrounds granting bonus languages.
Plaguescarred wrote:
Lord_Kyrion wrote:
Rhenny wrote:
LupusRegalis wrote:
Plaguescarred wrote:
LupusRegalis wrote:
LupusRegalis wrote:
Plaguescarred wrote:
One reason to take out charge in the basic is to eliminate the urge to play to numbers.
Basically, one of the most important benefits for earlier charge mechanics was to gain a +x bonus to attack. People could overuse it just seeking to stack bonuses.
BA reduces the need for bonus treadmill.
In reality, charge is really just moving more quickly into battle. In 5e there will be a number of ways to gain extra movement (class and race features and feats).
For or a basic game, charge action seems redundant.
i'd be surprised if there were no option for charge when WoTC releases DMG and options for more tactical play.
awogaman wrote:
Diagonal movement on a grid is now 1 square (p.71 sidebar). In the final playtest it was 1½
BoldItalic wrote:
LupusRegalis wrote:
Tony_Vargas wrote:
LupusRegalis wrote:
I found this interesting:
The space of another creature, whether hostile or not,
also counts as difficult terrain.
Personally charge as an action was lame. It was. Half move plus attack. It was rarely useful.
It is better as a feat and buffed up.
Charge should be part of a feat with movement and an attack with a big bonus.
There should be a default charge action, shame there isn't. The 1/2 move + attack was fine, so would a full move + attack but grant advantage to any attacker until start of your next turn. Let any charge build feats build on the basic charge rule.
I think I'll add a charge action to my game: Move up to your speed and make an attack with disadvantage. Alternatively, do half damage.
Then certain weapons designed for charging would remove the disadvantage part of that (or do full damage). I've never believed that charging should make an attack easier to hit with. It's kind of a reckless move, which, without proper training, should make it more difficult to land an attack properly.
Of course, I'll check the PHB before I actually institute the rule, as I want to see if Charge made it in there.
MechaPilot wrote:
awogaman wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
LupusRegalis wrote:
awogaman wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
A few changes to the spells I've noticed since the playtest:
- Etherealness, Astral Projection and Gate have been removed from the wizard's spell list (hopefully just an accidental oversight).
- Bless, Charm Person, Chain Lightning, Command, Dispel Magic, Dominate Monster, Dominate Person, Etherealness, Fly, Hold Person, Invisibility, and Mass Suggestion now scale when cast in higher level slots.
- The damage on many spells has changed, including Disintegrate, Fireball, Lightning bolt, Meteor Swarm, etc.
- Cure and Inflict Wounds now have a range of touch. Cure Wounds now heals 1d8 + wis modifier, and adds +1d8 per spell level instead of +2d8. Inflict wounds deals 3d10 + 1d10 per SL.
- Knock no longer has a the Ritual tag.
- Identify now has a 100 gp material component 
, but it can also identify magical effects upon a creature.
- Shield now grants +5 to AC instead of +4.
No Charge action is one of the few things I don't dislike about 5e...with movement before, or after attack, as well as being able to be broken up or 'spent' on specific movement actions, un-trained people charge simply by moving to their target, then attacking...Charge itself is just how you color it, an untrained person charging shouldn't get any bonuses for doing so, except mayhaps in regards to having a Charge-friendly weapon (like a Lance or Spear) and then you'd merely note a bonus to those weapons. while getting specific bonuses for 'Charging' itself would be for those with the feat/training.
That's My 2 cents worth! Charge used to be 'abused' by people using it to Move, and then instead of doublemoving and giving up their attack for the round, they would charge, getting that double move, but also an attack, and really taking no penalty for it (other than not having all their possible attack options available with Charge) and in fact getting a to-hit bonus...lame
I don't know if it's already been mentioned by someone else, and if so I really apologize, but in the Basic Rules, if you're not proficient with a weapon you're not at Disadvantage when you use it, as you were in the last playtest packet: you simply don't add the proficiency bonus, as it was in 4th edition (yes, yes, I know, in 4th ed. the proficiency bonus didn't scale with experience...
).
Happy life and happy gaming to everybody, and happy summer! 
F.G.