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| #1ZardnaarJan 17, 2015 14:29:22 |
I recent years WoTC has developed a reputation of not really being able not make a good adventure. This tradition dates back to 3.0 and the adventure City of the Spider Queen being a decent example of this. That adventure was more average than outright bad but the fail continues into 5E with Horde of the Dragon Queen although I think the Lost Mines of Phandelver (LMoP) is a pleasant surprise in that regard.
What type of adventure you like can also be a little opinionated and a 2E adventure for Darksun for example is not really that useful for a generic adventure. For the most part I am talking about just the generic semi default world of D&D and nothing to exotic like Ravenloft, Darksun or other setting which stray from the core D&D books.
Another difference would be what is it you are after as a short encounter or adventure in Dungeon magazine may be for a single night as opposed to a themed adventure path which is more of a campaign. An adventure path generally need a decent plot hook and story while a one shot adventure can simply be for a 3-4 hour game. As a general rule I do not like Megadungeons although such adventures can often be mined. If one were to play the Temple of Elemental Evil that one could keep you busy for years.
Paizo has a reputation of making good adventures although if you look at enough of them they do seem to have a template on how to make a good adventure. The older TSR era material often has some great adventures although a few of the classic ones have not aged that well and were little more than dungeon hack to start with. Nothing wrong with a dungeon hack either but you can make good and bad ones. Anyway a few things I like to see in an adventure as a DM.
1. An interesting plot hook. An adventure path (AP) might have a 16 page player guide while a one shot adventure might have a paragraph or two detailing why you would want to run this adventure. The current 5E adventures do not have great plot hooks but at least they made some effort as some of the old TSR adventures literally had you starting in front of the dungeon door. Not strictly required but it helps IMHO. Recently I have started using Tiamat, Vecna and other classical D&D villains more than I have in 3E due to new players who are not that familiar with D&D lore.
2. Interesting NPCs and villains. This is where some of the Paizo adventures shine as they seem to have a cast of screw ups and misfits for your PCs to interact with. LMoP also has made an effort in this regard although it is really up to the DM in all of these adventures as to how prominent the NPCs are. A larger cast can also help if you are planning a NPC betrayal or intrigue and a larger cast of NPCs makes it a bit harder for the PCs to find out who is stabbing them in the back.
3. Interesting locations. This does not always mean the dungeon or combat part of the adventure. Hommlet for example in T1 has a lot of NPCs and locations to visit. The Keep on Keep on the Borderlands for example has various locations to go to outside the Caves of Chaos. The 1st part of the 2E megaadventure The Night Below also scores very well in this category. Locations can also be a natural feature like a canyon or mountain made out of crystal or something like a flying monolith.
4. A sandbox. Dungeon hacks can be very linear but they have a time and place. I prefer a bit of a more sandbox approach where the PCs can explore things on their own time. X1 the Isle of Dread is an example of this approach along with The Night Below and the Paizo Kingmaker AP. I like sandbox adventures more than dungeon hacks but one can always sprinkle a few dungeons around to be found.
5. A little bit of history/back ground. Dungeons can be a bit generic but think of the Roman ruins or the Great Wall or Angkor Wat in real life. In my game the city of Lyris was built over the ruins of an old Thyatian city sacked in centuries past. In the PCs downtime one of them is learning Thyatian which is in extinct language and as it is basically Latin it fleshes out my campaign world a bit. Thyatis of course is from Mystara but none of my players really know much about that setting so I mined the empire and it functions as a fallen Rome circa 8th century AD.
6. A well designed Dungeon. As I said there is a time and place for a good dungeon crawl and they are a bit bland if they are move from room to room just clearing out stuff. I tend to have about 1 in 3 rooms in a dungeon contain a potential combat around 1 in 3 are empty (secret door maybe) while the other 1 in 3 will have a variety of interesting/empty things in them. I also use a lot of statues which do not attack as it helps to lower PCs guards for when you do use Gargoyles or Golems. Also helps if the statues are sometimes very valuable.
7. Side quests. This is more of an optional thing. You can tie this to the contents of your adventure. Perhaps NPC 1 has a magic item or gold and is looking for a Thyatian Statue or body part of a creature located in a dungeon. This I find just helps develop your world and has the incentive for the PCs to go out and find stuff and increases the cast of NPCs one can use. Generally bonus xp, treasure, magic items and NPC contacts are used as rewards in side quests. Flesh out those items in adventures that “collectors” will pay top gold for. Make up a few NPCs like that who want antiques, books, scrolls etc. 8. Some sort of non combat activity. Think of games like the Grand Theft Auto series. At the guts of the game it is a violent and profanity laced sandbox. Partly linking to point 7 some of these events can lead to new quests or a session’s fun if the PCs get side tracked a bit. For example I had an annual Magnimar sailing contest my PCs entered where they had to race a boat around the harbour. It was supposed to be a nice simple series of skill checks but evolved into a session’s fun as they came up with elaborate ways to cheat from sabotage and laxatives through to getting competing boat crews arrested or drunk. In my current 5E game I added Gnome goat cart racing and now one of my PCs is saving his coppers to get a goat cart racing franchise
9. Adult themed. One has to be careful with this but I am now 36 and watch things like the Game of Thrones. I also do not mind a bit of Grand Theft Auto or Saints Row. I tend to leave **** for example out of my games but the PCs managed to capture an assassin once and handed her over to the ships captain. Said assassin however was tortured and the PCs were invited to watch which did kind of make them squeamish despite not actually describing what happens. Some of the 3E Dungeon Magazine had a little bit of adult themed things in them without going over board into GoT sexposition. I keep it around the level of capital punishment from 500 years ago or the classical era so the death penalty is used and you can get boiled to death or hung drawn and quartered.
10. A love story. It may be a cliché but I try and put potential love interests in the game for the PCs and some villain’s are redeemable in this way. A villain does not have to be evil either as any NPC that can get in the PCs way can count as a villain. Do not over do this though and do not over do the whole NPC threaten/kill/kidnap loved ones as PCs tend to stop bothering if it is a waste of time. Same goes for a betrayal if the NPC was duping the PC. I have had a level 13/14 fighter/thief (2E) retire to settle down with a farmers daughter as she was good at making cheese. Once again try not to over do it or make all your female NPCs Bond girls for D&D and put in some for the ladies as well. |
| #2RhennyJan 17, 2015 14:46:43 |
I like many of the elements you mention Zard.
For me, it is really these two things plain and simple:
1) Balance between three pillars (combat, exploration and interaction.
2) The enthusiasm and life of the players as they play their characters.
Any adventure or adventure path or even an improvised game/campaign that promotes these two aspects is a winner in my book. |
| #3ZardnaarJan 17, 2015 15:01:58 |
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| #4TheNovaLordJan 17, 2015 15:56:30 | Have finished HOTDQ we really enjoyed it. Freedom to do what you wish, ally with whoever party wished, even on its railroad Most of the classics are quite terrible adventures, and have aged badly.......couldn't bear to play caves chaos, TOEE, etc anymore
Once you have played a Paizo AP and we have finished 5, they are all the same formulae, and too npc, not pc, centric
Good adventure needs Player choice, which may mean 30% module isn't used The pc's to be the key, not npcs that you have to faun up to Some mystery and backstory, but not pages, that the pc's may never discovery Don't need 2 page backstory and 1 page stat-block of npcs that will be dead within two rounds of meeting pc's Interesting people n monsters to meet, chat with, cajole, fight etc.
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| #5CaliburnJan 17, 2015 16:14:36 | It's an alchemy between the adventure design and the DM's presentation and modification of it based on player actions.
The adventure has to have the necessary ingredient, the players stir them and the DM builds the cake out of both of those - following, and I cannot stress this enough, the rules of story-telling.
Begining, middle and end, rising tension, main plot and side plots with adventure climax (battle with the boss, escape from the prison, whatever the climax is) and then epilogue.
Think of running adventures as a novelist thinks of structuring a story, with the glorious complication that the characters aren't under your control... |
| #6edwin_suJan 17, 2015 17:34:08 |
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| #7bawylieJan 17, 2015 17:52:46 | Only need one thing: adversity. |
| (Reply to #7)AaronOfBarbaria |
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| #9JohnLynchJan 17, 2015 22:03:34 | I don't think you can use a formula for a good adventure. What might be a good adventure for one group (A survival adventure where your struggling to feed yourselves let alone explore the sandbox your in) could be a terrible adventure for another group (interested in high cinematic play). The worst adventure can be exactly what a particular group needs to play that night to have fun. A sandbox for the wrong group can result in them feeling directionless and simply wandering
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| #10ZardnaarJan 18, 2015 0:29:38 | I quite like Lost Mine and the intor to it is not that great compaered to some better adventures. HoTDQ is average at best in that regard, I mean what level 1 PCs really want to go and fight a Dragon although they have DM plot protection in it. |
| #11JohnLynchJan 18, 2015 1:03:18 |
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| #12TheNovaLordJan 18, 2015 2:13:58 | I can't see the point of playing 5e with its freedom and light touch, and then stifling it under organised play |
| #13PsikerlordJan 18, 2015 2:27:32 | For me, my favourite adventures as both a player and DM are sandbox style ones like Isle of Dread. I do like occasional plot heavy adventures, ala shadowrun urban adventures, but mostly I like to wander around, dig up some hooks, then get exploring those that sound interesting.
Definite turn offs for me are very long, drawn out adventures that are on rails - most adventure paths, I suspect. Megadungeons. Powerful NPCs who end up saving the day. Anything on rails such as compulsory capture the PC scenarios. |
| #14iserithJan 18, 2015 5:42:32 | Conflict, and lots of it. Oh, and don't forget the tropes. Lotsa tropes. |
| #15UchawiJan 18, 2015 8:22:11 | Something new, versus something re-hashed. But that only applies to someone like me that has been playing for a long time. |
| #16DaveDashJan 18, 2015 13:42:57 | Hmm Red Hand of Doom is an awesome WoTC module and has many of the elements you cite, Zard. |
| #17BRJNJan 18, 2015 18:36:08 | Confusing design - clock issues: PCs enter city and become aware of a problem (afternoon). Several parties contact them, wanting to meet and provide clues. All the meetings are at the same time (over dinner). All the meetings then lead to a plot thread that must be addressed on a time limit - the same time limit (midnight?). The (now-split) PCs do not have enough time to get back together and decide which thread to follow up. All the Encounters that the plot threads lead to, are designed for the whole PC group to be there.
Fixing it: All the meetings say "Can you start tomorrow morning?" (Ambitious PCs might do one of them tonight if they can squeeze it in.)
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| #18NoonJan 18, 2015 19:44:37 | Generally I'd say it's PC's with goals - and the adventure accomidates rather than stifles this.
PC's with goals practically create their own conflict and adversity. |
| #19PsikerlordJan 19, 2015 13:11:41 |
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| (Reply to #10)CCS |
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| (Reply to #12)CCS |
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| #22kalilJan 20, 2015 2:36:26 | 11. Meaningful choice. The choices and actions of the PC's actually affects what happens. Now I am not talking about success or failure, but actual choice. Do we resque the princess OR the villagers? Choice with actual consequences (and foreseeable consequences, otherwise it is not a meaningful or real choice). This is super-important for me and my group, but often soarly lacking in published adventures (not only WotC products). |