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| #1ZardnaarApr 22, 2015 17:39:19 |
During the D&D dark ages when I followed Yoda into exile. After burning out on 3.x type mgames in 2012 I went back to BECMI and 2E and found I still enjoyed them and from there it was a short step to the retroclones such as ACKs, Basic Fantasy and Castles and Crusades.
I even went as far as designing my own D&D which I come back to on occasion. My homebrew was based heavily on 2E with elements of 3E added in such as ascending ACs, feats, and fort/ref/will saves. Now assume you are designing your own fantasy heartbreaker version of D&D. I like a lot of 5E but there is a lot in it I do not like such as certain feats andthe healing system whjich is all over the place and varies to much depending on what the PCs take. This is not back to the old DS mechanics type arguements but there is an extreme swing in PC power if you have a life cleric and the healing feat for example. My PCs always take that healing feat as well.
Bounded accuracy is another example. I like the idea in concept but ACs are all over the place and then you have things like the Paladin aura and feats like sharp shooter and great weapon fighter. ATM I have a Oath of the ancients Paladin rocking the house with GWM feat, a life cleric and a PC with the healing feat. Thats a lot of healing and damage.
So what would you steal from 5E for your own verison of Basic D&D? Assume you are only going to level 5 with the Fighter, Wizard, Cleric and Rogue as options. You can take anything you like from any edition of D&D and use any edition as a base game including 5E if you would just like to tweak 5E.
Mine (this would be expanded later BTW with races and classes) Base Game BECMI/5E Hybrid with influence from Basic Fantasy, Castles and Crusades, ACKs, 3.5&4E
4 Races (human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling) 4 Classes BECMI xp tables (classes advance at different rates) Level 1-5 (to be expanded later) AD&D armor, welcome back platemail and +9 AC full plate. No dex restriction on heavy armor No dex to damage, Fort/Ref/Will from 3E tweaked a'la SWSE and OSR type saves (at high level you make your saves 75-95% of the time) 4E combat modifers and round structure (standard, move, minor, +2 to hit flanking etc) 3.5/4E feats (feats at level 1,3,5) OSR power levels (no natural spell). Fixing dragons (magic weapons required vs older ones, proper MR and spells, higher ACs)
From 5E Advantage/disadvantage mechancic Magic item creation rules Bounded Accuracy (tweaked lower PC damage, less gonzo ferats and class abilites, weaker monsters) Cherry picked abilites from current feats into smaller feats. Weapon styles (as feats) Proficiency bonus replacing THACO/BAB Some class abilities (action surge, cleric abilitie etc) Pre selected class abilites as oppsed to 3.5 fighter type class. Size= monster HD concept+ monster sizes. Monster abilites, tweaked in some case. Magic resistance based on 5E and 2E (spellcasters gonna really really hate high MR/SR monsters).
Things to be removed from 5E Messy ACs. ACs would range up to AC 25 or even 30 but less high CR critters with AC 14 or something unless therer is a damn good reason. Silly monsters (18 AC hobgoblins with 11 hp and potentially 1d8+2d6 damage) Vast differences in healing rates via feats and class abilites Toning down very swingy monster damage and abilities (Kobold swarms, Orcs, Hobgoblins, Ogres, Bugbears and Gnolls being big offenders) |
| #2ZardnaarApr 22, 2015 17:47:47 | Sample Monsters
Kobold Small Humanoid Initiative +2 Senses Perception -1 darkvision 60' HD 1d6-1 Hp 3 AC 12 Saves Fortitude +4, Reflex +6 Will +3 Speed 30' Attack Melee +1 Dagger (1d4-1) Ranged +3 sling dmg 1d4 SQ: Shifty Trap Sense The Kobold gains a +2 bonus to all defenses against traps. Alignment Lawful Evil Languages Common, Draconic Skills Stealth+3 Thievery +3 Str 8 Dex 12 Con 9 Int 9 Wis 8 Cha 10 Equipment dagger, sling Traits Shifty (minor action ) The Kobold shifts 1 square. Light Sensitivity: While in sunlight, the kobold has disadvantage on attack rolls.
Hobgoblin Medium Humanoid Initiative +0 Senses Perception +4; darkvision 60' HD 1d8+1 hp 6 AC 15 Saves Fortitude +5, Reflex +5 Will +4 Speed 30' Attack: Melee +2 Dmg 1d6 or +2 ranged damage 1d6 (spear) Str 10 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 13 Alignment LE Languages Common, Goblin Skills: Perception , Stealth Equipment: , large wooden shield, studded leather, 3 spears
Traits Phalanx: Hobgoblins gain +2 AC when fighting adjacent to another creature with this ability.
Disciplined: The hobgoblin chooses a creature within its reach. The next attack roll made against that target by a friendly creature that also has this trait has advantage.
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| #3Nesian42RyukaielApr 22, 2015 17:57:17 | As for now I can think of two things to steal if I can;
- Moving full speed and attacking multiple times for free - Manually scaling spell power
For others, well, time for another walkthrough on my core rulebooks... |
| #4ZardnaarApr 22, 2015 18:30:31 |
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| #5Slit518Apr 22, 2015 19:09:02 | A couple years ago I started making my own Pen and Paper game using D&D 3.5 as a base for my rule-set, eventually modding it time and time again giving it's own identity.
However, when I started playing D&D 5th edition, I was shocked to realize some rules I was using in my game.
For example, I was going to have perks such as Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, skill based ones, etc... which when you took them it would allow the person to roll the die twice everytime they used a skill or had to save and let them take the greater of both rolls. This was similar to Advantage. I was going to have negative effects and curse spells which would do the opposite and allow rolling the die twice and taking the worse of both rolls, which is similar to Disadvantage.
Another thing I had, having a rule for when players level up, allowing them to take average HP at level up or roll the HP die instead.
I also allowed characters to choose skills that were important to them. So in my game you could have a fighter who would have less skills than a rogue, but the fighter could sneak and pick locks if it wanted to. 5th edition allows this by letting you choose backgrounds with certain skills.
Another similarity, when players were choosing races in my game, it was going to be the base race, aka Human, Elf, Dwarf, etc... and then you would choose the sub-race, aka Drow, Wild, High. Of course 5th edition did this...
It's kind of funny and good feeling knowing that some ideas I came up with work in a real popular pen and paper game and people seem to enjoy them. At the same time, it makes me mad, only because if I did it sooner or finished my game, it could of been my idea originally.
I also allow players to move their distance and attack as many times as they can in that distance moved, so they can space it out the way they want. 5th edition does that too...
Oh well, back to the drawing board! I'll just keep working on my game and not care what WotC does. Perhaps the OGL will allow me to still make my game the way I do, and perhaps not! *shakes fist* |
| #6ZardnaarApr 22, 2015 19:23:11 |
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| #7Slit518Apr 22, 2015 19:58:22 | Oh yeah, I also did this with my game - I had 6 stats, with each stat having a race associated with it (except Humans). I had Halfings associated with Charisma. If I recall correctly (my D&D 5th Edition Player's Handbook is over there) they had Halflings associated with Charisma as their main stat and either Dex or Con as their secondary stat... Seriously, WotC must have spies, or it's just a series of really eerie coincidences. Either way, I didn't play test D&D Next, I got the full release for Christmas. |
| #8arnwolf666Apr 22, 2015 21:35:44 | I like Bounded Accuracy. I been dropping concentration and redoing a few spells to make them work better (Polymorph). I had to redesign the Wizard and the Sorcerer. Really wanted wizard's to be the true masters of magic again and the Sorcerer more focused on Bloodlines. I adore the Paladin and Rogue. I let people pick the saves they are proficient in, one from Dex, Con, Wis, and another from Str, Int, Cha. I really like the skill system alot. Though I removed the Athletics skill and just made it an athletics save. I really felt the athletics skill as used in play was more of a save. |
| #9kalilApr 22, 2015 21:54:12 | Damage resistance: Clean and simple rule that works across all levels Movement rules: Works better here than in previous versions Wands: Minor thing maybe, but the 5e implementation of wands is great The concept of subclasses: But I would use it to build a game with only 3 classes (Fighter, Rogue, Mage) with subclasses and multiclassing allowing realization of other character concepts.
Other than that "my" basic D&D would rely mostly on 4e which IMHO has the best basic rule set (not talking about the hideous power/feat bloat but the basic rules of the game) of any edition so far. |
| #10SirAntoineApr 22, 2015 22:06:19 | Nothing so far. I was eyeing the specialist wizard abilities. They and some of the monk's new abilities are cool. Most things are just over-powered. I'd rather take stuff from 4th Edition if I want to raise the bar that high. The AEDU abilities are mostly gone, which is ridiculous. 5th Edition is highly-empowered, so why not use them? All of that just goes to waste. |
| (Reply to #9)arnwolf666 |
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| #12ZardnaarApr 22, 2015 22:12:59 |
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| (Reply to #12)arnwolf666 |
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| #14ZardnaarApr 23, 2015 3:03:34 |
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| (Reply to #14)arnwolf666 |
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| #16strider13xApr 23, 2015 3:44:02 | things I would keep
Bounded Accuracy Action Economy Advantage Backgrounds determining Talents Movement Resistance/Vulnerability
things I would change
Feats/Skills (Talents that you could invest in giving smaller boosts than feats but more than just +'s, this could effect class related powers as well as lead to a classless system) Weapons/Armor (see Gamma World) Clearer wording about when a rule references another rule, simpler language. Spells/spell slots (a more organic Talent based system relying less on rote style spells, see M20 Wayfarer magic)
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| #17FFSAAApr 23, 2015 6:26:40 | The art. It's pretty much universally loved and is responsible for a large chunk of the sales. The name. Again a large chunk of the sales. The pre-marketing spin. Again a large chunk of sales and the hillarity of watching people say the game has features like bounded accuracy even when it doesn't or think bad features are good like advantage. |
| #18Ralif_RedhammerApr 23, 2015 8:02:50 | I’d definitely take Inspiration (and by default, advantage). I love the idea of using it to encourage styles of play you want to see in the game.
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| #19MiladoonApr 23, 2015 11:12:52 | Everything but chapter 3 in the PHB. Homebrewed classes and subclasses huzzah. |
| #20ArtifactApr 23, 2015 11:23:00 | We've been using the 'plot points' variant from the DMG. We've did this sorta thing before but the guidelines in 5e are a bit more codified. Rotating DMs is an idea we explored in our 4e games before. 'The plot thickens' (option 2 in the DMG) is a new idea for us though and has been really fun to play around with.
Basically, as a player, I might add an element to a scene (an invisible someone who is tagging along with the group for instance), then my buddy next to me 'thickens the plot' by deciding that this someone is actually something (like an invisible, intelligent sword, floating along with us).
We've only used 'plot points' in our 4e games so far. Our first 5e games were spent learning the core system. |
| #21Brock_LandersApr 23, 2015 11:56:58 | I have ported over the Bounded Accuracy deal in a way to 3rd and 4th Ed.
For 3rd Ed, all creatures have a BAB: + 1/2 level/HD, Saves are: + 1/2 level/HD, DCs for spells = 10 + 1/2 level + mod, natural armour bonuses are halved, ability scores cap at 36.
For 4th Ed, I have simply removed the 1/2 level bonus from everything, and use Inherent Bonuses (which peak at +6, just like 5th Ed's Proficiency Bonus). |
| #22RastapopoulosApr 24, 2015 15:55:05 |
For the past few years I've been running 2e with a few things borrowed from 3e (or Myth & Magic, most likely) such as thief skills being regular proficiencies instead of % and such. I also like to expand the Weapon Proficiency list to a good amount of new maneuvers (when I'm not using my own house-ruled version of the Complete Ninja's martial arts system).
I tried 5e for quite a while when it came out... didn't like it. Too crunchy and too bloated with small rules. Class design was also very very bad. But a few general rules 5e introduced I did quite like and so I experimented with adding them to my running 2e games.
I ended up keeping only Advantage/Disadvantage.
I tested other things such as Bounded Accuracy and its Proficiency Bonus instead of THAC0 and proficiency checks, and it was all right at first but didn't feel quite right. It's not bad, it's just that 2e system for those things is simply better. I did keep somewhat the 5e attribute-based saves too, although after testing it I felt some saves were greatly underused so I toyed with the list a bit and reduced it to a 2e/5e hybrid, more or less.
Currently this is the system setup I use in a nutshell (the core changes at least): *Base system is 2e. *Expanded list of proficiencies. *Thief skills are proficiencies, thieves gain a lot of nonweapon proficiency slots. *Advantage/Disadvantage *Myth & Magic style THAC0 and proficiency checks (with the standardized DCs) *5 saves: Maneuver, Reflex, Fortitude, Willpower, Spell (save roll and progression 2e style).
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| (Reply to #17)arnwolf666 |
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| #24Brock_LandersApr 25, 2015 0:54:42 |
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| #25ZardnaarApr 25, 2015 8:11:52 |
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| (Reply to #25)arnwolf666 |
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| #27cassi_brazucaApr 25, 2015 13:20:15 |
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| #28setiApr 26, 2015 3:16:34 | 5e's best ideas are:
5e's worst ideas are:
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| #29Brock_LandersApr 26, 2015 3:42:39 | Double-Post. |
| #30RCanineApr 26, 2015 12:46:45 |
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| (Reply to #27)arnwolf666 |
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| #32melloredApr 27, 2015 5:51:04 |
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| #33Brock_LandersApr 27, 2015 10:44:00 | Best ideas in 5th Ed: -Capped Ability Scores -Bounded Accuracy -Ability Scores for Saving Throws |
| #34ChrisCarlsonApr 27, 2015 12:33:08 |
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| #35ZardnaarApr 27, 2015 15:57:00 | I like the concpet pf bounded accuracy thye kind of whiffed on the execution with monster design, 20 as the max ability score limit (should probably be 18) some feats and the Paladin. |
| #36arnwolf666Apr 27, 2015 16:58:58 |
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| #37ZardnaarApr 27, 2015 18:02:52 |
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| #38ZardnaarApr 27, 2015 18:02:53 |
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| #39ankiyavonApr 28, 2015 1:24:08 | My favorite things about 5E that I'd steal for other games are subclasses and the paladin design.
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| #40Brock_LandersApr 28, 2015 10:21:00 | Another one to steal from 5th Ed is Resistance/Vulnerability. |
| #41Brock_LandersApr 28, 2015 10:28:19 |
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| #42ZardnaarApr 28, 2015 15:51:12 |
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| #43mellowshipApr 30, 2015 4:30:56 | Things I'd steal from 5e for other systems:
-Advantage/Disadvantage. -Backgrounds. |
| #44DaomSlayerApr 30, 2015 8:35:34 |
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| #45Brock_LandersApr 30, 2015 10:31:10 |
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| #46kalilApr 30, 2015 11:23:45 |
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| #47BrightmantleApr 30, 2015 11:23:58 | Zard ole' boy, I am not going to be stealing much from 5e to enhance my other games. If and when I play it- that's what I'll play. For me personally: it doesn't have much to offer to improve my AD&D, or D&D 3.5 games. It's its own system and I plan to allow it to stand alone at the table. or play something else till I feel it can. |
| #48ChrisCarlsonApr 30, 2015 12:19:27 |
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| #49ORC_CricketApr 30, 2015 22:47:08 | We’ve removed content from this thread because of a violation of the Code of Conduct.
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| #50Brock_LandersApr 30, 2015 23:23:16 |
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| #51JohnLynchMay 01, 2015 6:25:38 | I just finished compiling a list of houserules for Pathfinder inspired by Pathfinder Unchained. Apparently the things I'd steal from 5th edition are: * Death Saving Throws * Hit Dice Healing * Reduced spell slots * Remove the reliance on magic items to keep up with the treadmill. * Subraces * Backgrounds
Other stuff I'd steal if it wouldn't bork the game math so much: * Bounded Accuracy * Advantage/Disadvantage * Spells only scale with spell level.
I'm starting to think I secretly just want to keep playing 5th edition ;) |
| #52Brock_LandersMay 01, 2015 6:46:32 |
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| #53JohnLynchMay 01, 2015 6:48:29 |
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| (Reply to #51)arnwolf666 |
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| #55adembroski11May 09, 2015 0:11:57 | Pathfinder + 5th Edition...
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| #56Brock_LandersMay 09, 2015 0:41:27 |
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