Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dmgorgon Oct 10, 2014 12:14:54	In previous editions and PF,  players can create skill monkey characters that essentially make hard skill checks (like finding traps) irrelevant.     With 5e are any of you finding that's still happening?  If so, what have you done to make those challenges relevant again?
#2 iserith Oct 10, 2014 12:21:38	No because players don't get a choice to "make hard skill checks." They can only state actions. If they state an action that the DM thinks succeeds, then it succeeds. If they state one that the DM thinks fails, then it fails. If the DM determines instead that the action's outcome is uncertain, then the DM can call for an ability check and let the dice decide.
#3 Lawolf Oct 10, 2014 12:38:39	So...here are my thoughts.    So what if a PC cannot fail a skill check. Many spells already do just that. If the only challenge to your PC comes from a chance to fail a roll, then your challenge probably isn't a good one to begin with.    So what if a rogue with reliable talent and expertise always succeeds at checks to find traps. Make the challenge about what to do when the trap is found, not about finding it.   Challenge the players, not the characters.
#4 mellored Oct 10, 2014 12:39:47	You can do it for a few skills (5 stat + 6 proficency + 6 expertise + 10 reliable talent = 27), but not many.   And even then it takes high levels, and a fair bit of sacrifice of combat power to acomplish it.
#5 Saelorn Oct 10, 2014 12:51:50	If someone creates a character who cannot fail to find and disarm the most difficult of traps, then good for them. We want the party to succeed. The player has signaled, by choosing to play this character, that he or she does not want the failure to remove traps to be an issue in this game.   Respect the player and the character. Don't invalidate that choice by artificially increasing the DC, or which are mysteriously immune to the rules of the game.
#6 sleypy Oct 10, 2014 13:03:14	iserith wrote:
#42 Zardnaar Oct 10, 2014 16:09:35	dmgorgon wrote:
#43 dmgorgon Oct 10, 2014 17:58:11	Saelorn wrote:
#44 sleypy Oct 10, 2014 18:07:56	dmgorgon wrote:
#82 Hailrobonia Oct 16, 2014 7:56:41	Pass Without Trace seems overpowered to me... +10 to stealth for one hour, for the whole group? Yes please!
#83 Rastapopoulos Oct 16, 2014 18:01:18	dmgorgon wrote:
(Reply to #63) Azzy1974	dmgorgon wrote:
#85 dmgorgon Oct 17, 2014 11:40:42	Rastapopoulos wrote:
#86 Brock_Landers Oct 17, 2014 11:41:04	Yeah, at this point I am taking the 5th Ed chassis, and embellishing it with previous edition's goodies.
(Reply to #84) arnwolf666	Azzy1974 wrote:
#88 dmgorgon Oct 17, 2014 14:12:15	arnwolf666 wrote:
#89 Fralex Oct 17, 2014 14:16:18	Risk of failure does make a challenge more interesting, but there are more ways to incorperate that risk than making it pure chance. Sometimes dice rolling CAN be suspenseful, but that tends to be in situations where sheer luck has become your only hope and the consequences of failure are very high. Like death saving throws! Those can be CRAZY suspenseful, because your character's combat skills have failed her and her life is entirely in the hands of fate and/or a teammate getting to her in time. But you don't get that kind of suspense from a lot of the ordinary skill checks, with ordinary stakes. In those situations, try stuff others have suggested to make handling a trap or whatever more challenging. Those are the times when I'd rather make the player feel clever than lucky.
(Reply to #87) Azzy1974	arnwolf666 wrote:
#91 cranebump Oct 17, 2014 16:48:08	Cyber-Dave wrote:
(Reply to #41) Apollo_Theron	Cyber-Dave wrote:
#93 mellored Oct 17, 2014 20:23:33	Apollo_Theron wrote:
#94 Zardnaar Oct 17, 2014 21:52:00	mellored wrote:
#95 mellored Oct 17, 2014 22:01:43	Zardnaar wrote:
#96 Zardnaar Oct 18, 2014 2:00:01	mellored wrote:
#97 mellored Oct 18, 2014 8:16:15	Zardnaar wrote:
#98 Mistwell Oct 18, 2014 8:53:40	mellored wrote:
#99 MechaPilot Oct 18, 2014 9:06:52	Mistwell wrote:
#100 SwampDog Oct 18, 2014 19:30:10	dmgorgon wrote:
#101 SwampDog Oct 18, 2014 19:37:11	Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:
#102 iserith Oct 18, 2014 19:39:00	SwampDog wrote:
#103 SwampDog Oct 18, 2014 19:46:59	iserith wrote:
#104 Lawolf Oct 19, 2014 9:30:48	Level 11 rogue treat a roll of 1-9 on a d20 check as a 10. This means a 1 isn't an automatic failure, it is in fact a 10. This also means a rogue with expertise in a skill has a minimum roll of 20 daily easily and 25 isn't out of the realm of possibility either.
#105 Chiisai_Usagi Oct 19, 2014 10:56:06	dmgorgon wrote:
#106 Rastapopoulos Oct 19, 2014 16:43:30	dmgorgon wrote:
#107 Zardnaar Oct 19, 2014 16:48:59	Rastapopoulos wrote:
#108 dmgorgon Oct 19, 2014 20:26:28	SwampDog wrote:
#109 dmgorgon Oct 19, 2014 20:27:05	Zardnaar wrote:
#110 dmgorgon Oct 19, 2014 20:49:00	Rastapopoulos wrote:
#111 mellored Oct 20, 2014 5:25:40	Skill Dice vs flat bonus.   +2 -> 1d4 +3 -> 1d6 +4-> 1d8 +5-> 1d10 +6-> 1d12 (presumably)   Now your max skill rogue or bard will have....   1d20+1d12+1d12+5 vs 1d20+6+6+5   DC 5:  100%   vs 100% DC 10: 99.9%  vs 100% DC 15: 97.0%  vs 100% DC 20: 90.1%  vs  90% DC 25: 68.8%  vs  65% DC 30: 45.1%  vs  40% DC 35: 22.9%  vs  15% DC 40:   7.6%  vs  0% DC 45:   1.2%  vs  0%
(Reply to #111) Timborama	mellored wrote:
#113 Rastapopoulos Oct 21, 2014 9:43:13	dmgorgon wrote:
#114 Timborama Oct 21, 2014 10:08:10	Good call, Rasta. To add, you could do something along the lines of:   Non-Elf: I life up the painting and examine the wall! DM: You see nothing but a regular stone wall, but Elfie, who is behind you, notices a small crease and points it out to you. Looks like it could be a hidden safe or vault!   (again, this is dependant on how open your players are for narrating things. Some people may take offense, saying "My elf would NOT point out the crease in the wall! I'm hiding that info because reasons!" But hey, every table is different, and even in that scenario you can still tell Elfie what he sees, maybe just not auto-saying "And you also tell the non-elf")   This uses a PCs check but you can still give the elf the spot. Similarly, the rogue may "kill" the creature but you can narrate that Mr. Barbarian takes that critical opportunity from the sneak attack to lop the thing's head off. Mechanically done through one, narrated through another.
#115 Lawolf Oct 21, 2014 10:30:15	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #107) arnwolf666	Zardnaar wrote:
#117 mellored Oct 21, 2014 11:02:22	Lawolf wrote:
#118 Zardnaar Oct 21, 2014 11:10:47	arnwolf666 wrote:
#119 cranebump Oct 21, 2014 18:15:30	arnwolf666 wrote:
#120 Dwarfslayer Oct 22, 2014 3:55:03	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #118) arnwolf666	Zardnaar wrote:
#122 cranebump Oct 22, 2014 6:14:21	Dwarfslayer wrote:
(Reply to #121) Azzy1974	arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #123) arnwolf666	Azzy1974 wrote: