Where did the idea of Druid Wild Shape come from?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

JS20

Jan 22, 2015 8:27:32

Did the Druids of ancient Celtic societies supposedly take the form of animals in the legends? Or is this a modern interpretation of what a "druid" actually is?

 

And since 4E was the first editionn of D&D I ever played, I'd like to know which editiob FIRST introduced shapeshifting to druids.

 

And if anyone knows, I would like to know where the idea of druid shapeshifting comes from anyway, be it D&D, Warcraft, Everquest, novels, movies, etc. Where did this idea originally come from?

 

Thanks for any info.

#2

Cyber-Dave

Jan 22, 2015 9:04:35

I started playing since 2e AD&D. Druids in 2e AD&D could already shapeshift. I don't know more than that on this subject, so hopefully other posters with more data. 

#3

1eejit

Jan 22, 2015 9:06:04

Merlin was often considered a druid and he could shape-shift into an animal form.

#4

iserith

Jan 22, 2015 9:09:19

From my own experience, there is a connection between shamanism and the use of psychedelic medicine. During such visions, communicating with spirit animals and shapeshifting are pretty common. I can't say if that's any basis for what we see in D&D, but hey, it was the 70s, man.

#5

Tempest_Stormwind

Jan 22, 2015 9:14:18

1eejit wrote:
#6

Orethalion

Jan 22, 2015 9:22:23

I always just assumed that it was given as an ability related to nature in order to make up for the short fall in spell casting ability (pre-3e), and then just stuck around because it was part of the class and was cool.

#7

CCS

Jan 22, 2015 10:01:01 		They could shape change in 1e. But it was hardly THE class defining feature it'd become in 3x+. You gained it at 7th lv. It was limited to 3x/day, each form could only be assumed once (though no time limit), and the form could only be at the most "about double the weight of the druid". Additionally you turned into just an ordinary animal - except for you mind. So, neat trick, sometimes usefull, but....
(Reply to #5)

Llenlleawg

Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
(Reply to #5)

Ashrym

Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
(Reply to #8)

CCS

Llenlleawg wrote:
#11

Zardnaar

Jan 22, 2015 11:40:48

The shapeshifting Druid predates 1E.

#12

Illithidbix

Jan 22, 2015 11:41:26

I bet it was totally watching Disney's Sword in the Stone!

 

Wildshape (germ) is totally an epic level power.

#13

Zardnaar

Jan 22, 2015 11:49:26

The was also a old Roman novel called hte Golden Ass so polymorphing has been part of myth for a very long time. 

(Reply to #10)

Llenlleawg

CCS wrote:
#15

Illithidbix

Jan 22, 2015 11:53:04

Loki and many other characters in Norse mythology were shapeshifters.

 

... Apparently they were *so* good at it we have the... not really PG safe story of Sleipnir, Odin's Horse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleipnir

 

I'm sure there is something out there photoshopped with Tom Hiddleston. I would not advise googling for it...

(Reply to #7)

Llenlleawg

CCS wrote:
#17

Llenlleawg

Jan 22, 2015 11:58:21

Some people here are talking about shapechanging, but that's not the issue, surely. Of course shapeshifting is part of folkore, legend, and myth. Still, apart from shapeshifters that aren't in fact human/mortal, shapeshifting is generally a sign of either an illusion or powerful magic, but in any event, something we would associate with a wizard/magic user, not with druids historically. So, the scene from The Sword in the Stone is a great example of two high-level Magic Users duelling with shape change, not two druids. After all, they do have to stipulate limits to their shapechanging!

(Reply to #16)

CCS

Llenlleawg wrote:
#19

ChrisTheS

Jan 22, 2015 14:16:12

Considering that D&D is far more strongly influenced by fantasy novels than it is by the folklore that inspired those novels, I'd be surprised if Earthsea didn't have something to do with it.

#20

ankiyavon

Jan 22, 2015 15:37:34

During the Council of Elrond, Gandalf refers to Radagast as "a master of shapes and changes of hue".

 

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Radagast#Third_Age

 

Most people come away with the impression that Radagast is a nature mage who can change shape; thus the spellcasting shapeshifting druid.

(Reply to #19)

Ashrym

ChrisTheS wrote:
(Reply to #21)

CCS

Ashrym wrote:
#23

Zardnaar

Jan 22, 2015 19:14:47

CCS wrote:
(Reply to #22)

Ashrym

CCS wrote:
(Reply to #24)

Llenlleawg

Ashrym wrote:
(Reply to #25)

Ashrym

Llenlleawg wrote:
#27

Llenlleawg

Jan 23, 2015 3:20:41

I never disputed that druids heal 10-60% with each change. I even noted this fact in this very thread! So, in this respect, I am not incorrect (since we agree and what we agree on is true!).

 

However, you are correct re: bards and druid abilities. The relevant passage, for those keeping track, is found on p. 118 of the Players Handbook (1978): "The bard gains druidic powers as a druid of the same level, with the exception of druidic spells as explained below." So, in that respect, I stand corrected.

 

re: The Dragon. I know there was a different version of the bard in #56, but that was never "official" (although that word tended to mean something else back then!).

#28

JS20

Jan 23, 2015 8:09:02

There is some really great info in this thread. Thanks, all. I am aware that shapeshifting has been a part of folklore and mythology for centuries, but I was more asking about Druid specific. Where did the idea of this guardian of nature turning into animals orginate? Merlin may have shapeshifted but it was more of an arcane power than having some sort of special communion with nature.

#29

kaitoujuliet

Jan 23, 2015 8:34:44

I'm pretty sure Beorn from The Hobbit was an influence as well.

#30

Devils-Advocate

Jan 23, 2015 10:53:56

JS20 wrote:
#31

Rastapopoulos

Jan 23, 2015 12:09:30

 

Shapeshifting has been associated to magic since ancient and medieval folk tales and myth. This goes for druids, sorcerers, shamans or however those magicians were called. It was not specific to druids but magic in general.

 

Shapeshifting as a "druid thing" was born with D&D as far as I know (although other casters in D&D can also shapeshift through spells, they just don't have the same emphasis on that as druids). And since D&D has been a BIG source of inspiration for the modern fantasy genre, the idea of shapeshifting as a "druid thing" has become popular in modern fantasy games, novels, etc.

 

 

#32

Tempest_Stormwind

Jan 23, 2015 12:28:05

Devils-Advocate wrote:
(Reply to #27)

Ashrym

Llenlleawg wrote:
(Reply to #33)

Llenlleawg

Ashrym wrote:
#35

crimfan07

Jan 24, 2015 17:27:04

JS20 wrote:
(Reply to #11)

crimfan07

Zardnaar wrote:
(Reply to #15)

crimfan07

Illithidbix wrote:
#38

Ashrym

Jan 25, 2015 2:05:26

I'm going to go with Scandinavian, Norse, Finnish, and Celtic folklore that match animism, protecting nature and nature spirits, and shamans with ties to nature. 

 

Ilmater, Loviatar, and Mielikki are drawn from Finnish mythology into the Forgotten Realms, for examples of direct inspiration.  Particularly Mielikki.