http://www.codenamemorningstar.com/blog/i-get-a-wild-magic-oh-what-a-wild-magic/
Dragonborn looks awesome. Facial structure also looks like they're adapting the design to incorporate a little more Draconian elements into it (just a little).
So we can look forward to seeing flumphs and modrons in the MM? I might be reading into this a little, but from some of the spoilers we've gotten so far we can expect a lot of diverse and unique monsters.
Every group needs at least two wild sorcerers.
Do wild surges start at level 1? Because I'm not a terribly great fan of a character who's capable of accidentally wiping the party out of the gate.
Interesting that the phrasing is "The DM MAY require you to..." I wonder if there is more to that somewhere, or if it really is whim driven.
TiaNadiezja wrote:
TiaNadiezja wrote:
If a wild sorcerer in my game rolled a fireball surge when the party was 1st level, I'd tone down the result., e.g a flat 1 damage per die, doing 8 fire damage, save for half. This would be increased to 2 dmg/die at 2nd level, and operate normally from 3rd level onwards.
Nautilus wrote:
You have a 5% chance of rolling on the table each time you cast a non-cantrip spell.
You start with 2 spell slots. There's a ~90% chance of you getting past level 1 without seeing a surge.
Though, more interested IMO is that the dragon sorcerer get's full flight (no concentration) at level 14.
I think part of the point is, when you're playing with Wild Mages, you're playing with fire. There are some really awesome effects on that table, but they're balanced by really distressing ones and everything in-between. If the DM always tones that part down, it might be wise to tone down the really good effects too.
On a side note, I find the aging result to be a very story-enriching, plot-developing one. I'm just laughing to myself a bit here about the idea of a Sorcerer who keeps accidentally making himself younger, until he's a little kid, but he's got the mind of his adulthood, and he's trying to explain in an adorable kiddie voice, "it's naught mah faught!"
One of my alpha PCs is a rogue/bard/sorcerer with wild magic. My one complaint with it is that only ever having a 5% chance of triggering a surge means it hardly ever comes up, which is rather disappointing. I suggested they change it so that the chance is equal to the spell slot level used, so if you cast a 1st level spell, you only trigger one on a roll of 1, but if you use a 9th level spell, you trigger a surge on a roll of 1-9, with the idea being that the more powerful the magic, the harder it is to control. It's a little disappointing to see they didn't do that, but nevermind, I can always house rule it in.
That being said, they've changed Tides of Chaos so that it now involves the DM having you roll on the surge table in order to get it back early, so if you have a willing DM, you could potentially be rolling on the surge table quite a lot after all.
Here's an oddity: "53-54 You are immune to being intoxicated by alcohol ..." It was my understanding that the intoxicated condition had been replaced renamed "poisoned".
Aww, 77-78 got nerfed. It used to be you polymorphed three random people into sheep. Now it's self-only.
41-42 (the potted plant) is still my favorite, although the original wording was slightly funnier. Makes me think of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Some very helpful things on that chart that can be heavily abused and only a couple harmful ones. I suppose you can still wipe the party out with a fireball but it's not like a psyker accidentally summoning a greater demon to consume everyone's soul in the first 10 minutes of play.
pukunui wrote:
I'm noticing a lot of fear about random fireballs..... A 5% chance of triggering a wild surge (1/20), multiplied by a 2% (1/50) chance equals a 1/1000 (0.001%) chance of rolling any particular entry on the table. I really don't see the problem, when said random fireball will only show up statistically, one in every thousand wild surge rolls - and the frequency of such is solely at the DMs discretion.
Yeah, I just don't see it. The odds of a 1st level Wild Mage party wiping them with a fireball (or other detrimental effect) is statistically negligable.... and were such to occur - it would be a story that would be told for years to come. "Remember the time when your wild mage nuked the party with a fireball at first level?"
All these people saying that they'd tone down the Wild Surges or elminate them I think are missing the point of the class. It's meant to be unpredictable. A player choosing to play such a class should only do so if the DM and the other players agree that they're ok with the consequences. And if that's the case, then it should be as random as the table says it is, otherwise it defeats the entire purpose and point of the class.
Just roll with it. You never know, you might enjoy wiping the party with a fireball at level 1.
vacthok wrote:
Artwork looks great, dragonsorc looks fine, wild magic table stil puts me off even playing at a table with someone using a wildsorc.
At least they fixed the typos, I suppose.
Sturmunddrang wrote:
I wish people would stop calling the final playtest an alpha test... it was simply an open playtest of the final playtest packet - a beta test. Alpha testing was done in-house, and possibly included the "friends and family" testing as well. Beta testing included the closed beta (required NDA), and open beta/encounters that were run from December onwards.
If I were to play this (and I kind of want to now, although I'm not likely to be a player for quite some time), instead of using a table I'd roll a single Fate die to determine whether the effect is positive, negative, or neutral, and then hash out exactly what happens with the GM.
My wife had a friend who played a wild mage once in 2e and would cast all of his remaining spells before resting, with... interesting results (most of which, unfortunately, have no analogue on that table).
I might just have the player roll a d10, if the number rolled is less than the level of spell cast a wild magic thing happens. This way it is more likely with powerful spells... seems to be right to me.
Alynn wrote:
Alynn wrote:
Theridion1 wrote:
Marandahir wrote:
I am not fond of DM intervention in class abilities. Wild Magic Surge and Tides of Chaos, as-is, aren't particularly appealing to me. The DM already has a lot of things to track; I wouldn't want to have to keep the Wild Sorcerer in mind on top of that. Also, Wild Magic triggering on a 1 when the DM asks for the roll means it will trigger quite rarely. The table itself is meh, IMO. Some good and some bad in there, but I really wonder how often it will come into play. I wish Wild Magic were something closer to Psykers and psychic phenomena in WH40k.
I love the luck bending, however.
Question which just hit me: How the heck does "the DM may ask you to roll for a Wild Surge" figure into balance considerations? I ask because there are some people who have posted some alternative rules I like, but I wonder what effect they'd have on gameplay. Except that's hard to figure out because the base rule is... inconsistent, for want of a better word.
Marandahir wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Nope. Not seeing it. You must have a dirty mind. 
pukunui wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
If you have a cooperative DM I don't see why you couldn't just play as though you roll on the wild surge table every time you cast a spell. The way I read it made it seem as though that were the intention, but I wish they would clarify how often a DM should have the sorceror roll.
I think the reason they made it optional, is for those gamers/groups where rolling on the wild surge table with every spell (inc. cantrips) would get annoying, or for times when it is simply inappropriate for the storyline that something "random" happens.... Wild surges for example, would be very disruptive to the mood during those moments when the DM is deliberately creating a tense atmosphere, such as during a horror campaign, or when sneaking up on a dragon. The hilarity that some of the wild surge results can create would easily disrupt the tension and mood in such situations.
With that being said, I would also use the threat of wild surge as a tension device in and of itself - such as when the player casts a spell while trying to do something with a great deal of risk (eg. sneaking past a major threat).
I agree though, it seems that the general rule is that the wild sorcerer should roll for wild surge at least a handful of times each session/encounter. With that being said, in an effort to keep the surge results "special", were I the DM, the moment the player rolled a successful wild surge (rolled a 1 on the check), I would stop making them roll surge checks for the remainder of the game session. Having a surge result once/session seems more than sufficient to make the wildmage player feel like their character choices matter - but more than that would quickly make it seem mundane, and ruin the thrill.
Kalani wrote:
I dig it. I've always loved the Wild Magic tables, and this one'll do nicely.
"There's only a 1/1000 chance" is not reassuring to me. The "caster level" on the surges should have been associated with the level of the wildmage, for this very reason.
"Hey guys, remember that time your wildmage blew up the whole party before we fought the BBEG? That was great ..." doesn't sound like something I'd say.
I wonder if calling for a magic surge whenever you're struck would be good?
Xeviat-DM wrote:
But if the DM never has you roll on it, as I might be apt to not do, will the class be any weaker? Any more powerful? I think it would probably be better to have the DM make the roll, then they could simply ignore results they didn't like; alternately, making none of the results result in character death would be nice too.
Xeviat-DM wrote:
It isn't so much "there's a 1/1000 chance of a TPK from this," but more, "there's a 1/1000 chance that the DM will have to backpedal out of a TPK from this," which is much less worrisome. Rare is the game I've played where the DM would actually follow through on such a meaningless, un-precedented TPK. It'd usually go something like,
"Uh. Well... okay, in the interest of OOC having fun, I'm going to step in here and say that didn't happen," and either "roll a different result," or "you're all reduced to 1hp from the flames, the sorc himself is unconscious and dying at 0", or something similar.
and that's that.
If your DM's not the type to override the rules/mechanics in favor of group harmony, well, that's kind of a group issue.
You might say that nerfing it or backing out is missing the point of the wild mage class, and, I'd respectfully disagree. I don't think I'm 'missing the point' so much as realizing the greater point here, of D&D, is that everybody is at the table to have fun together, and a bunch of characters dying for no reason due to the actions/build of one PC, isn't fun for everybody else involved. (If people are interested in dying for the sake of it, I'd let them, I guess...)
The wild mage in general is very DM-dependent, and a nonpermissive one can shut you down and reduce your ability to have fun... but I don't really see that as a big deal, comparatively speaking. It's not a new thing with the Wild Mage. The entirety of tabletop roleplaying games is really DM-dependent. Even if you play a character/system where you have complete control over all your abilities, the DM still runs all the challenges you face, NPCs you encounter, items you can acquire, etc...
With the Wild Mage mechanics, at least it's a relatively easy decision by the DM to adjudicate based on what's the most fun for the most people. If the player wants to surge a lot, have him roll the d20 with every spell! In the unlikely event this single roll with only a 5% chance of something else happning begins to bog down combat or somesuch, or give too much 'spotlight' time to the one player, reduce the frequency a bit until the spotlight time is somewhat evened out with the other players. And if it results in a TPK, invoke Rule 1 or Rule 0 or whatever we're calling 'em now.
I would like a psionic version for the wilder (now only subclass?).
TiaNadiezja wrote:
Having a wild magic sorcerer in the group sounds like a blast! (literally 
)
If you can't handle the minute chance of exploding the group than you ain't no Wild Mage son!!
(kinda reminds me of Fizban from Dragonlance... except he was more befuddled than leaking uncontrollable magical energies)
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
DrDragonlance wrote:
JDizzleton wrote:
The ones I don't particularly enjoy are the permenant ones. Permantly grow or shrink, permenantly turn blue, permanently grow older or younger. I think I would prefer some sort of time-limit on those, maybe a week or something so it still lasts a good while, but that way you don't end up with something ridiculous like a 1 year old adventurer.
This is probably houserule material and I do understand the chances of it happening are slim, but it just feels right to me to allow that if the player isn't deadset on remaining that way (and if a wild mage wants to be permenatly blue he could just start out that way)
Actually, there is an interesting question. What would you guys do if a blue wild mage rolled to to turn blue a second time?
Chaosmancer wrote:
Chaosmancer wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
As a DM I'm a little bit leery of this class. Seems like the kind of thing that would be selected by players who love to disrupt the game. Most players of that type are not fun to have at the table. Some players of that type are SUPER fun to have at the table, however, so I guess it all depends on the individual. That said, I like pukunui's suggestion about increasing the frequency of rolls. I would also call for a roll anytime the player fails a Concentration check due to damage. Finally, I'm wondering if the roll should be made by the DM rather than player. That would allow me, as DM, to use alternate tables and/or introduce results that advance the plot. Dunno. Could be a bit too heavy handed.
If the sorcerer wipes out the party, I think a creative DM could simply determine that all the players are knocked out and then awaken as captives or in some other out-of-the-frying-pan-into-the-fire type situation. Seems like an easy fix and potentially a lot of fun.
If I had a low-level party with a Wild Sorc that was unlucky enough to roll up the fireball, I'd probably say something like this:
"As the magic of your <spell> leaves your fingertips, you feel a terrible destructive force start welling up from inside you. You know you aren't strong enough to contain it, but you think with concentration you can hold it in just long enough for your allies to flee to safety. With a strained shout, you tell them to 'RUN!'"
I'd then give the party (and anything else) a round before I'd trigger the fireball blast. I'd also probably waive the "negative max HP = permadeath" rule for the sorcerer and just have him start making death saves like normal.
Now that I think about it, I'd probably go ahead and houserules that the Sorc can delay any Wild Magic surge for a round if they desire as long as the surge came from the casting of a level 1 spell or from the Tides of Chaos feature. It keeps things consistent while the party levels up, and removes a good chunk of the mortal danger that low level characters could be subject to without removing all the danger.
Kalani wrote:
Sure, its possible - but you have better odds of winning the Lottery in most cases. I do see your point however that it appears counterintuitive for some entries to be permanent and others to be temporary, but the permanent entries are largely irrelevant.... Even the blue skin entry is only semi-permanent, curable with a remove curse spell or effect. If it matters so much to you, you could make the same apply in respect to the other permanent entries (such as aging).
Become 9 years younger? Yes please. 
Given the percentages, the risk involved with the use of wild magic seems acceptable to me.
Mistwell wrote:
I think the wild mage is alot of fun, and I'm glad to see it in the new edition. However, I don't think a 1st level character should be able to accidentally set off 3rd level spells. Most of the effects on the wild surge table are just as significant at 20th level as at 1st. However, the wild surge table doesn't give any regard to the level of the character for damaging effects, and I think that's a problem. A 3rd level fireball (avg. 28 damage) is an almost guaranteed party wipe at 1st level, but nothing but a minor annoyance at 20th level. I think it would have been better if the damaging wild surge effects varied in power based on the wild mage's level.
FallingIcicle wrote:
I actually enjoy the concept of an amateur unleashing terrible effects due to dabbling in unstable spellcasting. If a level 1 wild mage accidentally willed a swarm of rust monsters into being, I would be tickled silly. Granted, that's not an actual option, but I'm generally delighted when the entire system isn't bolted down to any level-appropriate assumptions.
What we've decided to do at my table is to have wild surges fizzle if they call for effects of a higher level than the caster can use - explicitly, the ones that call for specific spells.
TiaNadiezja wrote:
vacthok wrote:
So it looks like the wild magic effect is in addition to the spell you cast. Now my memory sucks but wasn't the wild surge instead f the spell you wanted to case back in 2e? I kind of prefer the idea of instead of sleep hitting your enemies you shrink 9 inches.
Sturmunddrang wrote:
gaminggirl wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Ahglock wrote:
Ahglock wrote:
I think the fact that it is DM optional makes it ideal; the DM/group decides how often to make use of Wild Surges. What more can you ask for? Writing a specific frequency will only disappoint more people than it will appease. Plus, as with a lot of other 5E rules, many more groups can play it RAW.
The principle of the thing is fine, but the table is too children's cartoony and whack-a-doodle for my tastes.
I will extract about 60% of it and replace such things as blue-rinsing and flumph-summoning with something less personally objectionable.
For pretty much the same reasons I won't have a Wand of Wonder in my game.
Why is the party all gathered close to the wild mage when he is casting?
There is zero risk of TPK if you aren't all in a group hug. Stay away from the dangerous caster!
Circumstances where the entire party is unable to be more than 20' away from the mage are rare, further reducing this fabled TPK risk from 1/1K to 1/1M.
autolycus wrote:
gaminggirl wrote:
mellored wrote: