| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1BotanicusAug 27, 2014 10:26:10 | I understand that 5e is built on the 3 pillars and that only 1 of them related to combat, and that there is a precieved notion of Optimization counters Roleplaying, but I'm not really interested in getting in to that discussion at this time.
My question is, will there be a CharOp forum for 5e? |
| #2DDiceRCAug 27, 2014 10:56:31 | While charop is not my cup of tea, I hope there will be a charop forum for those who really love that aspect of the game. I wonder if 5e charop could include optimizing characters for non-combat roles? |
| #3EnglishLanguageAug 27, 2014 11:00:08 | I would be surprised if there wasn't. As long as 5e has more than one choice for characters, Char-Op will always be a thing. Not having a board for it means it'll just take up space on a different board. |
| #4DemoMonkeyAug 27, 2014 11:00:19 | Yes. There will be. I say this with the absolute certainty of someone who has no information on the topic at all. |
| #5dmgorgonAug 27, 2014 11:09:53 | I'm sure there will be It's not relevant to the actual game, but it can fun to ponder the rules in that way.
With that said, I think we need a house rules forum first.
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| #6tallric_kruushAug 27, 2014 11:18:46 | I've been hoping for this myself. Not only will it make optimization threads easier to find, it will cut back on unneeded intrusions into said threads.
I feel like the 5E forums have been strongly characterized by antagonistic, factious behavior for quite a while. I know that is often so with edition changes, but this seems worse. Within reason, the more specifically we can organize the forums, I believe we will see this steadily decrease. The elitists of various camps will be slightly less likely to intrude into threads that are organized in a forum that doesn't really interest them. That's my hope, anyway.
Trolls gonna troll, but that's just part of online forums. I think what I'm seeing is less outright trolling, and more borderline troll behavior from people with significantly different styles of gaming. It's fine to debate game-style if the thread is addressing that issue, but it's tiresome to read in every 5E thread.
So, yes I'd love to see a CharOp forum. I'd like to see the entire forums main page cleaned up, a bit. Things are too scattered and generalized, at present. |
| #7melloredAug 27, 2014 11:25:20 | The "player help" forum has "chararacter optimization" as one of it's descriptions.
I think they are going to avoid a full blown "character optimization" forum. |
| #8BotanicusAug 27, 2014 11:41:00 | Thanks for the replies everyone.
I'm hoping for a dedicated CharOp forum, though as Mellored points out the current Player Help board is probably the best bet.
Hopefully we'll get an Index of handbooks set up soonish. |
| #9melloredAug 27, 2014 11:43:23 |
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| #10Eldren73Aug 27, 2014 11:44:06 | I'm hoping we avoid it, but the nature of some players being what it is, even if we never get an official forum, I imagine optimization content will find its way to one of the existing forums.
Optimization is difficult at the launch of a new edition, because there's so little (at the start) to work with. It takes time for people to play from 1st to 20th level, to work through inevitable arguments over interpretations of some rules and achieve something resembling general community consensus (even if that consensus is never codified via publication from WotC), and once you're past all that, you'll see the optimizations start to show up. For right now, we have no prestige classes, we have no really complex mechanics to start taking advantage of. Though I'm sure those oriented towards optimization will try anyway. ;) |
| (Reply to #7)tallric_kruush |
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| #12VeleriaAug 27, 2014 13:10:18 | Until the Dmg is out most number crunch is useless. Once magic items balance is known they can get to min maxing. It would be good to have a separate forum for it where new players are not immediately presented with it. a sticky link in player help would be a good option rather than presenting it as a primary forum. |
| #13BotanicusAug 27, 2014 13:25:00 | I think there's still a good amount of room for Optimizations. Consider the desire to build a tanking paladin. What race? Dwarf has some good options, but Human (Variant) allows for HAM. Is HAM better than Tough? is the traditional Longsword+Shield the best bet? is Devotion the best 'tank'? Which spells would best serve this build?
This kind of information is generally comprised in Handbooks.... I'd start one for some of the classes but i know I wouldn't be able to maintain it. |
| #14FallstormAug 27, 2014 16:03:00 | I also sincerely hope there is a 5E Character OP section however I think the DMG and the options presented therein should be present first. Once that is done I would love to see an online Charap Op for each class. |
| #15ChristopherGrovesAug 27, 2014 16:40:34 | I'd love it if they just called it 339. We need one.
Also, remember that CharOp isn't about combat only. The 10x100 challenge ... the Diplomancer ... the Jumplomancer ... the world speed records ... those are all thought-cases that can expose (as big things) useful combinations you may actually put in parts to your local game - and not always combat. |
| #16frothsofAug 27, 2014 17:16:26 | If people bothered to read the subforum descriptions, they would see it already exists. Along w a rules question forum. |
| (Reply to #16)tallric_kruush |
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| #18GladiusLegisAug 27, 2014 17:20:42 | I would think the anti-Op people would want it to be its own separate forum so that they don't have to see it. Some real cognitive dissonance at work in some of those people's minds. |
| #19FallstormAug 27, 2014 17:23:31 |
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| #20ooSitriooAug 27, 2014 20:27:06 |
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| #21MistwellAug 27, 2014 21:59:43 |
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| #22BotanicusAug 28, 2014 7:38:21 | I feel that CharOp is such a large umbrella that rolling it in with the existing Player Forum really diminishes both, and makes it harder to sort between people who are asking for a review of a character on the basis of Story or the basis of Optimization for a Situation (or Situations). As it was noted CharOp isn't about just combat though I find I make that mistaken assumption frequently.
I agree that the DMG would help charop come to be, but i dont know that it is necessary. I think the initial outlay of 'best healer' or the DPR King Candidate thread can be handled without the DMG. Choosing Fireball or not may be more informed with the additional book though.
If anyone in power is watching, please consider the request for a standalone CharOp forum. |
| #23SamrinAug 28, 2014 8:06:42 | 4e also had a character development forum right underneath CharOP. It was for flavor related advice. I'd love to see a return of both for 5e. |
| #24IxidorRSAug 28, 2014 8:32:01 | Considering CharOp seems much tighter in this edition (for now, at least) I'd bet we won't see CharOp or CharDev split off from Player Help. |
| #25AaronOfBarbariaAug 28, 2014 8:43:46 | Creating a dedicated CharOp forum would only help to continue the team-think separation of "optimizers" vs. "[insert accidental, or intentional, insulting implication here]".
Keeping all character help, whether it is optimization of mechanical aspects, aid in tailoring non-mechanical aspects, or some other thing, in the same place is the only way to treat all approaches as equal, and is thus what WotC should be (and are) doing. |
| #26Arawn76Aug 28, 2014 8:46:22 | I never frequented the Char Op forums as just wasn't my style of play to be honest but some peoplew enjoy that and I like the idea of splitting the mechanical from the roleplay.
Allows for both mindsets to quickly find what they're looking for so gets my vote |
| #27ShadewynAug 28, 2014 9:55:06 |
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| #28SamrinAug 28, 2014 10:04:55 |
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| (Reply to #25)tallric_kruush |
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| (Reply to #29)AaronOfBarbaria | That concern is exactly why off-topic posts are against the code of conduct, and can and should be reported (which is a simple click-select reason from menu-type brief explanation-click process) and will be deleted from the thread in question.
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| #31tallric_kruushAug 28, 2014 15:03:57 | Yeah, I figured that would be the logical evolution of your rebuttal. Your probably right to not even go there; it's a line of thought I've also considered, myself. I hear you.
We're not in complete agreement, but it can definitely see your points. I do agree some good could come of allowing the various styles to intermingle a bit more. They'll hopefully realize none of us are really playing the game that differently; and if we are, how could that possibly be a bad thing?
As to the current vibe, I hope things naturally calm down, as the aggressors lose interest or migrate to other venues. That's often the case as the game (in this case 5E) and community mature post-launch.
I hate using ignore features, and haven't yet ever employed them, though of late I've nearly done so. I'd prefer to not miss out on the ranters' occasional insights. We all have them, after all. I guess if I see enough bad and not enough good from individual members, that's the way to go. :/ |
| #32Arawn76Aug 28, 2014 14:08:08 | Hmm some of the points have actually turned me around on this I do think there could be some serious benefit to having charop and such mixed in :-) |
| #33spelleyAug 28, 2014 14:57:56 | Headline: Man Changes Mind After Reasonable Discussion On Internet Forum! Gonna have to check the weather for flying pigs |
| (Reply to #33)tallric_kruush |
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| #35Sailing_Pirate_RyanAug 28, 2014 15:17:19 | If sub-forums are possible on these boards, then we could have a general purpose "player help" forum with sensible optimization advice on playable builds (what we have now) combined with a CharOp sub-forum explicitly labled as "a place for people who like building characters that no sane DM would ever let them play". A place for Pun-Pun and his ilk. That'd be fun. : ) |
| #36MistwellAug 28, 2014 15:17:44 |
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| #37SamrinAug 28, 2014 17:15:49 |
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| #38FallstormAug 28, 2014 19:00:04 |
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| #39tallric_kruushAug 28, 2014 20:01:20 | I think Aaron's point was that we shouldn't have to take that step. I presented the exact argument you have just presented above, but I'd like to think Aaron's ideal situation could work. |
| #40Brock_LandersAug 28, 2014 23:11:54 |
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| #41Arawn76Aug 29, 2014 1:32:43 |
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| #42Brock_LandersAug 29, 2014 1:41:25 | I find "optimisation" pretty operational.
Did not like what 3rd Ed really brought to the table: D&D: The Gathering. |
| #43Arawn76Aug 29, 2014 1:52:12 |
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| #44Brock_LandersAug 29, 2014 1:57:55 |
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| #45Arawn76Aug 29, 2014 2:34:57 | Ah got you. Yes broken builds were/are common in 3e |
| #46Brock_LandersAug 29, 2014 2:42:15 |
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| #47FallstormAug 29, 2014 12:55:53 |
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| #48The_JesterAug 29, 2014 13:20:19 | I hope not.
I have a great optmizer in my group who is also a great roleplayer, so I know the two are unrelated.
*However*, charop boards are different. They're not for people who want to build awesome characters; optimizers and people who love threorycraft and designing characters will do so. Charop boards are for people who aren't optimizers to come and get builds. It's the place for people to go to "win" D&D and break the game. People who want to be better but don't have the time (or skill) to optimize themselves. I'm less forgiving about that because it's less about your fun at building characters or testing your skill of the system, and more about kicking ass. And kicking ass is the worst aspect of optimization. |
| #49FallstormAug 30, 2014 10:03:36 |
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| #50The_JesterAug 30, 2014 13:22:49 |
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| #51UnknownMournerAug 30, 2014 15:53:58 | To the original question: Do you want them to post in general DnD discussion? Or in a sub-board you can ignore?
It's not my thing, but having their own link is fine. |
| (Reply to #50)Lokiron |
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| #53FallstormAug 30, 2014 18:18:48 |
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| #54FallstormAug 30, 2014 18:29:25 |
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| #55animeusAug 30, 2014 18:37:39 |
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| #56DemoMonkeyAug 30, 2014 19:00:26 | I don't really understand the hate for Char-o from a DM point of view.
If a player manages to find intricacies of the rules that make their character overpowered and the game less fun for the other players, congratulate them on their cleverness, offer them a pastry or an adult beverage as a reward, drop a piano on them (the character, not the player), set them to making a new character and carry on.. |
| #57The_JesterAug 30, 2014 19:02:00 |
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| #58The_JesterAug 30, 2014 19:04:18 |
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| #59DemoMonkeyAug 30, 2014 19:10:13 | "But cleverness isn't required to make an overpowered character with the CharOp board, following simple directions is. No skill required."
Conveniently, the solution still applies. |
| #60The_JesterAug 30, 2014 19:25:00 |
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| #61GhostStepperAug 30, 2014 20:00:58 |
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