Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Lipfi Aug 30, 2014 12:03:37	How do you think wizards from 5e and 3.5 compare? From what i see wizards in 5e are substantially nerfed. It seams to me that spells are similar in strength (are they?) but wizards in 5e have a lot less high level spell slots. Additionally very restrictive concentration mechanics is introduced.    P.S. Iit's also worth mentioning that spells no longer scale with level.
#2 Centauri Aug 30, 2014 12:18:51	Lipfi wrote:
#3 Devils-Advocate Aug 30, 2014 12:26:26	Yep, they have been substantially nerfed, and with good reason. Wizards in 3.X (and Clerics and Druids, for that matter) were just better than other classes, plain and simple. Like demonstratably, mathematically, and in actual play, straight-up-better. In the new edition, casters got a big nerf, non-casters (well... Fighters, anyway) got a big boost, and it's still not really balanced. But it's closer than any other edition has come, 4E notwithstanding.
#4 N4M8- Aug 30, 2014 14:16:40	They have been nerfed in some ways, buffed in others (spells gaining capability by using higher level slots for example).
#5 rampant Aug 30, 2014 14:25:56	Actually that's also a nerf from 3e.   Back in 3e days the spell scaled with the power of the caster, which meant that the spells in your low level slots remained highly useful, with the exception of summoning spells, and even then a little creative monster choice could compensate for the poor scaling.    By making spells scale on slot instead of class level it means the casters have to actually choose what spells they want to be good at today instead of just letting them do any and everything with dozens of spell slots.
#6 Devils-Advocate Aug 30, 2014 14:52:56	They did get a nice buff in the form of at-will cantrips though, which I love. Now when the wizard runs out of (non-cantrip) spells, he can actually continue doing wizard things instead of having to rely on daggers and crossbows.
#7 Thoughts_My_Aim Aug 30, 2014 14:58:14	Basically Wizards have a slightly flatter power curve now - higher at level 1 with a D6 Hit Die, Cantrips, and most level1 spells casting at rougly the level that would have required level 3-5 in earlier editions. Lower at top levels because of the restricted high-end spell slots (only one 9th level spellslot ever, as far as I can tell) and the lack of automatic spell scaling.
#8 mellored Aug 30, 2014 15:01:25	Centauri wrote:
#9 rampant Aug 30, 2014 15:04:50	It's not perfect but it's no where near as bad as 3e.   And with fighter subclasses actuallybeing half-way decent, and multiple attacks no longer being gimped by movement and compatible with special maneuvers like grab or shove, it's a lot easier to have fun with fighters.
#10 Yunru Aug 30, 2014 15:04:26	Aren't warlocks the newest thing to be magical and superior? Or more specifically Eldritch Blast and it's invocations.
#11 Uskglass Aug 30, 2014 15:16:13	They are more restrained, but still very powerful. At higher level full spellcasters can match any other class for raw damage and outshine them on pretty much anything else. Also the new vancian system makes wizards more flexible, since they can now allocate slots on the fly from their known spells. Then there are at-wills as fall back when nothing else is left, or when you just want to save resources while still contribuing to the efforts.
#12 mellored Aug 30, 2014 15:18:50	Yunru wrote:
#13 mellored Aug 30, 2014 15:23:12	Though i guess to answer the OP's question.   They flattened the curve.  Wizards arn't afraid of house cats at level 1, and they don't rule the world at level 20.
#14 Uskglass Aug 30, 2014 15:24:59	mellored wrote:
#15 mellored Aug 30, 2014 15:40:04	Uskglass wrote:
#16 Uskglass Aug 30, 2014 15:51:17	Even with 4 battles per days, a high level caster has easily access to 4 or more spells that can single-handedly win or turn a battle. Still, assuming we get some errata for a handful of spells, it's possible the game could become approximatively balanced over 15 levels or so, which is not bad.
#17 mellored Aug 30, 2014 16:05:00	Uskglass wrote:
#18 N4M8- Aug 30, 2014 16:04:09	rampant wrote:
#19 mellored Aug 30, 2014 16:06:27	N4M8- wrote:
#20 Uskglass Aug 30, 2014 16:09:53	mellored wrote:
#21 mellored Aug 30, 2014 16:29:14	Uskglass wrote:
#22 Uskglass Aug 30, 2014 16:49:33	mellored wrote:
#23 animeus Aug 30, 2014 17:23:07	Devils-Advocate wrote:
#24 Thoughts_My_Aim Aug 30, 2014 17:26:58	Uskglass wrote:
#25 rampant Aug 30, 2014 17:28:00	Doesn't really seem to hit harder.
#26 N4M8- Aug 30, 2014 17:33:51	mellored wrote:
#27 Illithidbix Aug 30, 2014 18:19:51	With Concentration greatly limited buff and continious debuff spells. (a fantastic idea IMO) and some well put togeather maths it looks like spellcasters and nonspellcasters do seem very much equal in terms of "combat numbers" like average damage/round. Out of combat, I'm far less convinced. I'm not sure there is that much the non-fighers can do that spellcasters can't do with spells.
#28 Tony_Vargas Aug 30, 2014 19:42:06	Uskglass wrote:
#29 Uskglass Aug 31, 2014 3:24:39	Tony_Vargas wrote:
#30 Yunru Aug 31, 2014 3:55:04	Fighter 14/Sorcerer 3/Warlock 3 can beam spam Eldritch Blast 5 times a turn (once quickened).
(Reply to #30) ChristopherGroves	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #28) Darth_Caffeineus	Tony_Vargas wrote:
#33 Yunru Aug 31, 2014 4:25:52	ChristopherGroves wrote:
#34 Zardnaar Aug 31, 2014 6:33:24	Low level this seems to be worse than 3.5. And by low level IDK how far I would go but it could be as bad as level 9. Our group is seriously thinking about taking a all spellcaster party with the melee builds of Cleric and bard subbing for fighter types. 2 bards (melee+spell), 2 clerics (war+tempest or war+light), 1 wizard.  The main difference is spell casters in this edition seem to be broken from level 1.
(Reply to #30) Lipfi	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #32) Marandahir	Darth_Caffeineus wrote:
#37 mellored Aug 31, 2014 8:31:46	ChristopherGroves wrote:
#38 mellored Aug 31, 2014 8:34:49	Uskglass wrote:
#39 Tony_Vargas Aug 31, 2014 9:45:18	mellored wrote:
#40 mellored Aug 31, 2014 9:49:56	Tony_Vargas wrote:
#41 Brock_Landers Aug 31, 2014 10:11:59	mellored wrote:
#42 mellored Aug 31, 2014 10:31:31	Brock_Landers wrote:
#43 Brock_Landers Aug 31, 2014 10:40:17	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #36) Darth_Caffeineus	Marandahir wrote:
#45 mellored Aug 31, 2014 11:26:54	Brock_Landers wrote:
#46 Devils-Advocate Aug 31, 2014 11:38:21	mellored wrote:
#47 Brock_Landers Aug 31, 2014 11:58:39	Wipe away those class titles, some of those powers would be hard to differentiate.
(Reply to #47) Darth_Caffeineus	Brock_Landers wrote:
#49 Brock_Landers Aug 31, 2014 12:59:22	Darth_Caffeineus wrote: