Vampires as PCs - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Rhral Jan 27, 2015 16:29:09	Hello everyone while I read that in "Ravenloft: Van Richten's Guide to Vampires" which the very last page states a rather troublesome and problematic rule about why you can't play as a Vampire, which this is not only restrictive but also boring to cast entirity of Vampires under the "antagonist race" which has genocidal over/undertones to it and of course there's claims that the book makes the Vampires more 'complex' but not making them playable characters defeats this entire purpose if so since if one turns into a vampire, it can be a oppertunity of having "Friendly Neighborhood Vampire" examples but by automatically turning in the character sheet and becoming NPCs makes this impossible. Well, if there's games like "Vampire: The Masquerade/Reqiuem" that allows you to play as a Vampire, why can't Ravenloft? I have two possible counter points that first of all "evil" can be a subjective term that just because you feed on blood doesn't mean it makes you automatically evil (especially if some Vampires have a certain 'moral code' which they only kill and suck dry ones in self defense while the non-combative/'innocient' ones, they only feed half of their blood leaving the victim anough blood to surivie or even sucking blood during sex as a form of sensational pleasure for both partners to enjoy (as the human, the sensation of the vampiric kiss and the blood being drained from them and as the vampire, the pleasurable sensation of sucking their blood)..since I think maybe I would rather prefer Vampires or rather it would be best to describe Vampires as "hendoistic" then 'evil' since then again, "hendoism" goes against the ascesiticism of what mainstream religions represent hence they deem vampires "evil" because they rerpesent everything ascestics reject...but then again, there's also those who enjoy inflicting harm for pleasure and amusement without any regard of the victim which is where the "evil" comes in or rather it's where sociopathy/pychopathy comes in as a worthy title of "antagonist"), and also I think Vampire themed games can be different which can be more about political infighting and 'suriving the night' or 'growing as a vampire lord/lady of the night' rather than standard "Hero" context.
#2 Llenlleawg Feb 19, 2015 13:23:47	Vampires in Ravenloft are understood to be the vampires of traditional lore. They are not a race. They are not just a different kind of being, or people in a particular state, who happen to take blood as food. (If you want that for Ravenloft, play a vampyre, rather than a vampire.) They are rather unholy mockeries of what was once living. To get into the proper Gothic spirit of what a horrible thing a vampire is, consider what happens to Lucy Westenra in Dracula when she is slain by the Count and becomes one of the Un-Dead: When Lucy, I call the thing that was before us Lucy because it bore her shape, saw us she drew back with an angry snarl, such as a cat gives when taken unawares, then her eyes ranged over us. Lucy's eyes in form and colour, but Lucy's eyes unclean and full of hell fire, instead of the pure, gentle orbs we knew. At that moment the remnant of my love passed into hate and loathing. Had she then to be killed, I could have done it with savage delight. As she looked, her eyes blazed with unholy light, and the face became wreathed with a voluptuous smile. Oh, God, how it made me shudder to see it! With a careless motion, she flung to the ground, callous as a devil, the child that up to now she had clutched strenuously to her breast, growling over it as a dog growls over a bone. The child gave a sharp cry, and lay there moaning. There was a cold-bloodedness in the act which wrung a groan from Arthur. When she advanced to him with outstretched arms and a wanton smile he fell back and hid his face in his hands. She still advanced, however, and with a languorous, voluptuous grace, said, "Come to me, Arthur. Leave these others and come to me. My arms are hungry for you. Come, and we can rest together. Come, my husband, come!" There was something diabolically sweet in her tones, something of the tinkling of glass when struck, which rang through the brains even of us who heard the words addressed to another. As for Arthur, he seemed under a spell, moving his hands from his face, he opened wide his arms. She was leaping for them, when Van Helsing sprang forward and held between them his little golden crucifix. She recoiled from it, and, with a suddenly distorted face, full of rage, dashed past him as if to enter the tomb. When within a foot or two of the door, however, she stopped, as if arrested by some irresistible force. Then she turned, and her face was shown in the clear burst of moonlight and by the lamp, which had now no quiver from Van Helsing's nerves. Never did I see such baffled malice on a face, and never, I trust, shall such ever be seen again by mortal eyes. The beautiful colour became livid, the eyes seemed to throw out sparks of hell fire, the brows were wrinkled as though the folds of flesh were the coils of Medusa's snakes, and the lovely, blood-stained mouth grew to an open square, as in the passion masks of the Greeks and Japanese. If ever a face meant death, if looks could kill, we saw it at that moment. And so for full half a minute, which seemed an eternity, she remained between the lifted crucifix and the sacred closing of her means of entry. Van Helsing broke the silence by asking Arthur, "Answer me, oh my friend! Am I to proceed in my work?" "Do as you will, friend. Do as you will. There can be no horror like this ever any more." And he groaned in spirit.
#3 Cyber-Dave Jul 11, 2015 21:54:44	I hate to say it Llenlleawg, but you are sort of wrong. That is what vampire's *can* be in some Ravenloft campaigns. That is what some of the Ravenloft products suggested that vampires should be (Van Richten's Guide is a good example). That being said, the novel Vampire of the Mists introduced a protagonist elf vampire, Jander Sunstar, whose overall traits would have put him at home in an Ann Rice novel. I could have sworn there was a Ravenloft product that also gave rules for vampire PCs (though I can't remember which one anymore, so maybe I am wrong). In the end, what any individual table wants to do with vampires will depend on what sort of horror the table wants to run. If the table want to run a classic Gothic tale of haunting and survival in face of great Evil, allowing vampire PCs would be a mistake. If the group wants to run a new Gothic tale of haunting and and an attempt to remain human despite the depravity of one's own nature, a vampire PC could work. In neither case would I suggest the sort of "relative morals" the OP suggests. That doesn't really fit with the theme of Ravenloft or D&D. There are absolute alignments in D&D. Ravenloft punishes one for acts that are capital Evil. Being a vampire in a Ravenloft themed game is a curse. But, there is room for a story with a PC vampire in a Ravenloft game. Jander Sunstar is proof of that. The only question is whether the table wants to run that sort of story.
#4 OrdoVeth23 Jul 22, 2015 19:14:38	Cyber-Dave - The Ravenloft product that covered playing as a vampire (as well as other undead) was Requiem: The Grim Harvest. Libris Mortis also covered playing undead characters, but was a 3.5 product. On a side note, there's also Ghostwalk, which is a 3e product that covers playing as undead characters of the ethereal variety.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Rhral

Jan 27, 2015 16:29:09

Hello everyone while I read that in "Ravenloft: Van Richten's Guide to Vampires" which the very last page states a rather troublesome and problematic rule about why you can't play as a Vampire, which this is not only restrictive but also boring to cast entirity of Vampires under the "antagonist race" which has genocidal over/undertones to it and of course there's claims that the book makes the Vampires more 'complex' but not making them playable characters defeats this entire purpose if so since if one turns into a vampire, it can be a oppertunity of having "Friendly Neighborhood Vampire" examples but by automatically turning in the character sheet and becoming NPCs makes this impossible.

Well, if there's games like "Vampire: The Masquerade/Reqiuem" that allows you to play as a Vampire, why can't Ravenloft?

I have two possible counter points that first of all "evil" can be a subjective term that just because you feed on blood doesn't mean it makes you automatically evil (especially if some Vampires have a certain 'moral code' which they only kill and suck dry ones in self defense while the non-combative/'innocient' ones, they only feed half of their blood leaving the victim anough blood to surivie or even sucking blood during sex as a form of sensational pleasure for both partners to enjoy (as the human, the sensation of the vampiric kiss and the blood being drained from them and as the vampire, the pleasurable sensation of sucking their blood)..since I think maybe I would rather prefer Vampires or rather it would be best to describe Vampires as "hendoistic" then 'evil' since then again, "hendoism" goes against the ascesiticism of what mainstream religions represent hence they deem vampires "evil" because they rerpesent everything ascestics reject...but then again, there's also those who enjoy inflicting harm for pleasure and amusement without any regard of the victim which is where the "evil" comes in or rather it's where sociopathy/pychopathy comes in as a worthy title of "antagonist"), and also I think Vampire themed games can be different which can be more about political infighting and 'suriving the night' or 'growing as a vampire lord/lady of the night' rather than standard "Hero" context.

Llenlleawg

Feb 19, 2015 13:23:47

Vampires in Ravenloft are understood to be the vampires of traditional lore. They are not a race. They are not just a different kind of being, or people in a particular state, who happen to take blood as food. (If you want that for Ravenloft, play a vampyre, rather than a vampire.) They are rather unholy mockeries of what was once living. To get into the proper Gothic spirit of what a horrible thing a vampire is, consider what happens to Lucy Westenra in Dracula when she is slain by the Count and becomes one of the Un-Dead:

When Lucy, I call the thing that was before us Lucy because it bore her shape, saw us she drew back with an angry snarl, such as a cat gives when taken unawares, then her eyes ranged over us. Lucy's eyes in form and colour, but Lucy's eyes unclean and full of hell fire, instead of the pure, gentle orbs we knew. At that moment the remnant of my love passed into hate and loathing. Had she then to be killed, I could have done it with savage delight. As she looked, her eyes blazed with unholy light, and the face became wreathed with a voluptuous smile. Oh, God, how it made me shudder to see it! With a careless motion, she flung to the ground, callous as a devil, the child that up to now she had clutched strenuously to her breast, growling over it as a dog growls over a bone. The child gave a sharp cry, and lay there moaning. There was a cold-bloodedness in the act which wrung a groan from Arthur. When she advanced to him with outstretched arms and a wanton smile he fell back and hid his face in his hands.

She still advanced, however, and with a languorous, voluptuous grace, said, "Come to me, Arthur. Leave these others and come to me. My arms are hungry for you. Come, and we can rest together. Come, my husband, come!"

There was something diabolically sweet in her tones, something of the tinkling of glass when struck, which rang through the brains even of us who heard the words addressed to another. As for Arthur, he seemed under a spell, moving his hands from his face, he opened wide his arms. She was leaping for them, when Van Helsing sprang forward and held between them his little golden crucifix. She recoiled from it, and, with a suddenly distorted face, full of rage, dashed past him as if to enter the tomb.

When within a foot or two of the door, however, she stopped, as if arrested by some irresistible force. Then she turned, and her face was shown in the clear burst of moonlight and by the lamp, which had now no quiver from Van Helsing's nerves. Never did I see such baffled malice on a face, and never, I trust, shall such ever be seen again by mortal eyes. The beautiful colour became livid, the eyes seemed to throw out sparks of hell fire, the brows were wrinkled as though the folds of flesh were the coils of Medusa's snakes, and the lovely, blood-stained mouth grew to an open square, as in the passion masks of the Greeks and Japanese. If ever a face meant death, if looks could kill, we saw it at that moment.

And so for full half a minute, which seemed an eternity, she remained between the lifted crucifix and the sacred closing of her means of entry.

Van Helsing broke the silence by asking Arthur, "Answer me, oh my friend! Am I to proceed in my work?"

"Do as you will, friend. Do as you will. There can be no horror like this ever any more." And he groaned in spirit.

Cyber-Dave

Jul 11, 2015 21:54:44

I hate to say it Llenlleawg, but you are sort of wrong. That is what vampire's can be in some Ravenloft campaigns. That is what some of the Ravenloft products suggested that vampires should be (Van Richten's Guide is a good example). That being said, the novel Vampire of the Mists introduced a protagonist elf vampire, Jander Sunstar, whose overall traits would have put him at home in an Ann Rice novel. I could have sworn there was a Ravenloft product that also gave rules for vampire PCs (though I can't remember which one anymore, so maybe I am wrong). In the end, what any individual table wants to do with vampires will depend on what sort of horror the table wants to run. If the table want to run a classic Gothic tale of haunting and survival in face of great Evil, allowing vampire PCs would be a mistake. If the group wants to run a new Gothic tale of haunting and and an attempt to remain human despite the depravity of one's own nature, a vampire PC could work. In neither case would I suggest the sort of "relative morals" the OP suggests. That doesn't really fit with the theme of Ravenloft or D&D. There are absolute alignments in D&D. Ravenloft punishes one for acts that are capital Evil. Being a vampire in a Ravenloft themed game is a curse. But, there is room for a story with a PC vampire in a Ravenloft game. Jander Sunstar is proof of that. The only question is whether the table wants to run that sort of story.

OrdoVeth23

Jul 22, 2015 19:14:38

Cyber-Dave - The Ravenloft product that covered playing as a vampire (as well as other undead) was Requiem: The Grim Harvest.

Libris Mortis also covered playing undead characters, but was a 3.5 product. On a side note, there's also Ghostwalk, which is a 3e product that covers playing as undead characters of the ethereal variety.