(If they get up sooner than that, great - but I wouldn't count on it.)
Chris has mentioned that he's got information forthcoming on other RPGA/D&D Organized Play events - let's hope that Championship information will be included.
I wonder if they are going to do the voting for the PC's thing again.
1 - no they are not voting for characters.
2 - They are epic level characters
3 - yes they are pregens (last year was an experiement - not going to repeat it)
4 - Would not count on seeing the characters before you sit down at the table. That's part of the fun.
Part of the fun for my group is seeing the characters before the championship and running practice games with them. We actually really enjoy that.
So, consider that one vote for getting the characters early.
Tom
That happened in another tournament we were involved in and it was really cool.
Tom
I think it will not be interesting. I think it will suck. sitting down with a 21st level character that you have no knowledge of will not be fun. I can think of in my head is "OH, wait i forgot about this random feat you need to take another five damage."
im with you there, its like they want ppl like the Critical hits crew to be the only one who stand a chance of going in round 2.
Anyway ill play but my team and i are so rdy to be killed in the 1th or 2nd room.
Any more details? TIme is getting short.
How many more details are you expecting? Given Dave C's post above (epic level, pregenerated characters, don't expect to see them ahead of time), I, personally, wouldn't expect to see *any* additional details before the convention.
To expand on what others are saying:
Not showing the characters beforehand at all? Considering that we're dealing with epic-level characters (a tier of play which most, if not all, of the people participating have not been involved with--and I speak advisedly, owning a game store and playing the game since before it came out in previews), I would venture to say that "that's part of the fun" = "that's part of the frustration".
It's one thing to not finish at a 4-hour timed event because of skill playing, another thing entirely for valuable time being consumed trying to figure out the complexity that is a character that high level when "cold reading" it. Synergies between characters and design elements will get missed; most people haven't even experienced the element of epic destinies in play; and most haven't seen the effects of epic-tier magic items in play.
The difference between (say) a 17th level character (the highest of the RPGA characters at this point, and there are not many of these, and we run 30+ tables a month plus slot zero's at my store + people go to conventions) and a 25th level character (midrange for epic) is huge:
5 feats (of which all could be epic-level, which not many have seen in play)
4 powers (3 of which call for the removal of extant powers)
2 epic destiny abilities
unknown number of magic items that people haven't seen before
Epic Destiny with two abilities
Add that level of complexity to monsters with powers and abilities at a level few are familiar with and the fact that the explosion of options in the game make it near impossible for people to even be more than vaguely aware of characters outside of the ones they actually play much less familiar with the possible abilities thereof and you've got a recipe for people failing in the Open not because they're not good players but because they're failing merely at *comprehending their characters*.
I'll point out this also HEAVILY skews the Open towards those most likely to be prepared for it: RPGA players. RPGA players have the luxury of seeing dozens of different character types in play, noticing their interactions and talking about them, because they play at tables with different people all the time. Non-RPGA players are usually restricted to 1, maybe 2 home games with the same 4-5 other people playing 4-5 characters who are all the same.
Please reconsider releasing no information about the pregens. Of course the ideal solution would be to release the pregens, but at the very least, class/race combinations and specific levels would help people to be able to at least research the *possibilities* beforehand.
Yes - playing an Epic character sight-unseen might be complex, but managing the complexity is part of the challenge.
I wasn't aware that Dave C's response was definitive (I don't really know who he is).
Dave C. (wavester) is the RPGA's Senior GM at the big shows (GenCon, Origins, DDXP). He recruits the judges, he sets everything up. In short, it's his show.
I don't necessarily disagree with any of your points...but I also note that "no foreknowledge" was the way the D&D Open was done "back in the day". It's only been in the past few years that players got to see the characters ahead of time. It may be that TPTB wanted to go back to that style of running the Open. It may also be that the complexity in an epic-level 4E character makes this less than a great idea. I guess we'll see.
BTW, your note about this tilting the playing field towards RPGA players only goes so far. Many RPGA players play with a fairly limited group of players; they may not have significantly more experience with the sorts of situations you list than an active home-gamer. And, LFR isn't yet in Epic play, either.
And it's not that RPGA players have more experience in epic play; it's that the nature of the RPGA encourages a variety of different characters to be played (even in small populations) as new mods come out. They've more experience with the wider variety of possibilities, having experienced many different classes being played, than home-gamers who stick with a single character throughout playing with other people doing the same.
It may be the way the D&D Open was done "back in the day", but so many things have changed that clinging to that seems a bit ridiculous.
I wouldn't call it "clinging", since they obviously *didn't* do it that way for the past few years. And, I'm just theorizing...I have no idea if that's the thinking behind the change.
It's not even called the "Open". I've never played in the "Open"
Then, ummm, why did you (who started this thread) entitle it "GenCon D&D Open Championship"?
Anyway, you're clearly unhappy, and I guess I can understand why. You and your team did well the past few years, and now you learn that they've changed the rules (in a way which you feel puts you at a disadvantage).
But even not being at a disadvantage competitively, I know that I won't have as much FUN playing if the first half of the Championship is going to primarily consist of looking at character sheets and going "wtf does this do?". As well, if you give the tables reasonable amounts of time to absorb the characters before time starts, you're going to increase the time the slot *takes*, thus meaning that other events at GC I sign up for I won't be able to participate in.
As well, if you give the tables reasonable amounts of time to absorb the characters before time starts, you're going to increase the time the slot *takes*, thus meaning that other events at GC I sign up for I won't be able to participate in.
I played the D&D Open several times in the early 2000s, when it was in the old "no foreknowledge of the characters" format. IIRC, they did give the groups some time at the beginning of the slot to familiarize themselves with the PCs. And, I suspect that the adventures were written to take that time into account (particularly in Round 1).
Also, from what I recall, they simply had a "hard stop" at the end of the slot. You were scored based on how far you got by the end of the slot. No one went over; it simply wasn't allowed.
However, I just hope that there is some synergy in the actual characters, so a level of system familiarity will be able to identify existing power combinations, and the like. At Epic levels, the room for both extreme synergy, and extreme counter-syngergy, is huge. Personally, I'm really looking forward to the Dark Sun Arenas, but that's because I like being able to build my own character.
(And yeah, I was the captain of the C Team last year. My buddy and I were playing a Fighter and a Warlord, respectively, and we were picked up by a team of 3 Canadians playing an Invoker, Barbarian, and Sorcerer. Go big or go home, baby.)
Lot of updates (including characters being used) will be going up on the Wizards of the Coast - Gencon website this week (hopefully Wed or Thur). So keep your eyes open for all that goodness. Lots of information on how things are going to roll this year.
Also just as a heads up the characters are in Character Builder format. So you will need a valid and updated version of the Character Builder to view them. So if you don't then start bugging a friend.
Thanks
Lot of updates (including characters being used) will be going up on the Wizards of the Coast - Gencon website this week (hopefully Wed or Thur). So keep your eyes open for all that goodness. Lots of information on how things are going to roll this year.
Also just as a heads up the characters are in Character Builder format. So you will need a valid and updated version of the Character Builder to view them. So if you don't then start bugging a friend.
Thanks
What is the URL for the Wizards of the Coast - Gencon Website?
This is the only one I know of. There are no downloads available yet.
If it is epic level, what level are the characters?
And when you say 'website' what website are you refering to?
It's Epic.
And when you say 'website' what website are you refering to?
The Gen Con site on off the Wizards Event page has the incorrect blurb for the Championship. Looks like a cut-and-paste error. It is currently showing the blurb for the Delve.
Hold on. The website says that it is a 1st level delve. But the description from GenCon says that it is an Epic Level game. Which is it? I signed up for the event because the description said Epic Level.
If it is epic level, what level are the characters?
It's Epic.
YAH! Cause Epic needs no stinkin' level!
What?
Haven't got the chance to see them, no Char builder on my work machine.
I hope that wasn't aimed at me, ORC, but if it was then 1) it was an attempt in a tongue-in-cheek way to remind Dave that he hadn't answered the other question in the thread (hence on topic) and 2) I apologize if anyone took offense to the manner in which I did it.
You are good chief. The message replaces a previous one that was pretty insulting from early this morning.
You are good chief. The message replaces a previous one that was pretty insulting from early this morning.
Yup...the earlier post, and my VCL slap-down of it, were both removed by ORC_Ertai.
I only looked at the level 30 versions of the characters (no more time than that at lunch). The one thing that struck me was that each had all three epic defense feats, along with expertise/versatile expertise. A few other feats appeared several times among the characters. It makes me wonder if WotC'll ever acknowledge that their math is messed up, and just fix it so that we can get rid of these cookie-cutter, must have, absolutely necessary feats.
I am tech-stupid. I downloaded the characters, have a fully updated Character builder, but cannot seem to get the characters to show up. What am I doing wrong?
My Documents\ddi\Saved Characters
Once you've done that, if they still don't show up in the CB's character list, you can use browse --- it's right next to "create new" --- to locate the files.
Once you've done that, if they still don't show up in the CB's character list, you can use browse --- it's right next to "create new" --- to locate the files.
Yep, in my experience the list of characters in the CB doesn't refresh if you add new files to the folder. You need to use the browse function to add the 'new' folder, even if it's one which is already displayed. It's odd, but it works!
Characters are here: clicky
Haven't got the chance to see them, no Char builder on my work machine.
Parable for the Gnome? Really?
I'm not saying they ought to be optimized, but it is just cruel to give 3 of the builds either Demigod or some variant of Demigod(considered one of the best of the Epic Destinies) and then give one character Parable(considered flat out to be the worst Epic Destiny)