I could be wrong but I cant see people traveling and paying lodging for a night or 2 in another city to come and play upto 8 or more rounds of LFR that they could do at home?
(i think this should be moved to the LFR thread)
As it's a "convention" thread it fits here as easily as in the LFR section. Unless the OP requests I move it, I think it can stay here without issue.
With everything open to everywhere playing rules, what is the incentive to run a LFR convention? Or more succinctly where is the incentive for people to travel to our conventions?
Honestly, the question's been asked for a year now, ever since the lack of regional restrictions for LFR was announced.
If your only incentive for traveling to RPGA cons in the past was playing out-of-region LG modules, or specials / interactives that weren't available for you to play at home...then, no, you don't have the incentive you used to.
I know there are players who have made friends in other cities, and travel, in part, to play with those friends. And, there are players who have difficulty getting games going in their home towns. Not everyone has a home group, or local group, with which they can get RPGA play. For those people, there's still incentive to travel to cons.
With everything open to everywhere playing rules, what is the incentive to run a LFR convention? Or more succinctly where is the incentive for people to travel to our conventions?
I could be wrong but I cant see people traveling and paying lodging for a night or 2 in another city to come and play upto 8 or more rounds of LFR that they could do at home?
Well, with the current event list for D&D experience, they don't want you there if you don't have a 4th level character, so maybe you are right...:D
The biggest reason for me to visit conventions has never been special content. The fact that I get to play with people from all over the area whom I otherwise never see is the biggest incentive for me.
Well based on the experience I had in the past three weeks I'd say the above, combined with the fact for some people don't have any other chance to play face to face is what draws people to conventions.
This is based on going to 3 conventions - one of which had roughly the same level of attendance as last year, one of which had a larger attendance for RPGA events (by a factor of 3) and one of which was a new convention (which had multiple tables of LFR in most slots, despite being a convention aimed at players of indie games).
Kithran
Luruar POC
Keith
the general issue of RPGA-only cons has been discussed ad naseum, especially at the dawn of LFR (with the elimination of region specific content and special events like battle interactives).
An RPGA only con relies on the RPGA attendees to fund the event. If you have a local venue that can support this, then the change from LG to LFR has no impact to you. If you have to pay for your venue (or the cost cannot be covered by local attendance), you have a problem.
The biggest issue many RPGA-only cons have is that they take place in venues that require an expensive rental fee (say $2000-$6000 for a weekend). At a hotel (the most likely venue) this cost is subsidized by hotel rooms... hotel rooms purchased by out-of-town players. Under LG, those out-of-town players were motivated to go to the con for the original content (out-of-region play, special adventures, interactives, etc.). Without those incentives, there is no reason for out-of-towners to favor a distant convention over a local event.
Large gaming conventions (that rely on multiple types of gamers) really aren't impacted. In fact, our local con (previously Conquest SF, now Pacificon) saw about a 20% increase over our last three years in RPGA volume.
By this logic, DDXP should have lower attendance with LFR (there is no significant unique content), but GenCon/Origins should stay flat (overall, attendance at those cons is driven by non-RPGA events).
The model for RPGA only conventions has to change. Instead of large cons that can only run in a hotel, you need smaller ones that can run at cheaper venues (say a VFW / American Legion hall or a game store). Most of these places can give you SOME space, but not a full facility for an entire 3-day weekends. I expect to see more all day events and regular gamedays to pick up the slack.
i'm running a convention at a local gamestore - it'll be 12 tables/slot for 9 slots (and another 3 slots with only 6 tables). This is about 60% the size of the maximum capacity our other LG conventions in the past had, but I don't expect to see as much out-of-town attendance.
As for special events like battle interactives.... you CAN run them! they just aren't official. And some players might like that. One technique is to use "DM empowerment" to heavily modify an existing adventure into an "interactive" mode - PCs get rewards for MOD1-1, even though they played some crazy BI set in the underdark! Granted, the PCs can't have already played MOD1-1 (but PCs that really want to play The BI could just take no-rewards; for them it's a 4e homeplay event). The important thing is the players have fun, not that their characters get neat rewards.
I will be sad to see the interaction between different gaming groups decrease, but a stronger local community will pick up the slack. if no one runs the cons, then of course the question becomes moot whether or not you go (there's no con to goto). Folks in locations where there is minimal local play are still motivated to goto RPGA-only cons - their motivation isn't unique content, it's the quantity of content.
There's certainly a alot of "wait and see" attitude in the gaming community right now. I expect we'll see some local cons pop up and die off over the next year; and people will either find something that works and proliferate it, or RPGA only cons will decrease significantly.
just my 2c
The whole fun of going to LG conventions was traveling both in and out of the game world to experience new things and new struggles. The stories were fun and different and usually worth the trip. Now we don't have to do that, we can just do them in home games.
Plus with no triad local organization there isn't anyone to even think of doing a local con just for the people around here. This whole system is a botch in my eyes. WotC should have just paid the writers to write the mods and then sold them online as pdfs and just done away with this whole set up. As far as I'm concerned Hazbro and WotC killed the RPGA.
We have already been told that the region system that was set up is strictly for logistical purposes and has no effect on the game or the players.
Well, with the current event list for D&D experience, they don't want you there if you don't have a 4th level character, so maybe you are right...:D
This puzzles me, too. You'd think that a convention that is pretty much a strictly D&D affair would have something for character levels 1-4. Of course, the Baldman Games Web site says additions are still being made. So, who knows what shall be presented when the schedule is all said-and-done?
As far as I'm concerned Hazbro and WotC killed the RPGA.
More games were sanctioned and played in September 2008 then in any previous month in RPGA history.
The king is dead. Long live the king.
This puzzles me, too. You'd think that a convention that is pretty much a strictly D&D affair would have something for character levels 1-4. Of course, the Baldman Games Web site says additions are still being made. So, who knows what shall be presented when the schedule is all said-and-done?
We do have 3 slots of stuff guaranteed for characters level 1-4 (the Open LFR slot every night Thu-Sat). The demand is for adventures 4-10 so that is what the show is provided. We do have lower level stuff mixed in and we will do our best to make sure every slot every person is playing but putting in a low level track to the show would require resources better spent elsewhere.
More games were sanctioned and played in September 2008 then in any previous month in RPGA history.
The king is dead. Long live the king.
That is more likely because you can play any module, from any region, anywhere. Plus you can replay modules now as well.
I would still prefer a regional and metaregional feel. That way people can get into the story lines within their region or metaregion and not have to try to keep track of 12 regions worth of story lines.
That is more likely because you can play any module, from any region, anywhere. Plus you can replay modules now as well.
I would still prefer a regional and metaregional feel. That way people can get into the story lines within their region or metaregion and not have to try to keep track of 12 regions worth of story lines.
So you have more options and that upsets you? If you don't want to keep track of 12 regions worth then don't play 12 regions. See fixed. Play 3-4 and cores.
The campaign is about options. More options means more choices even if that choice is to limit yourself and play less.
With everything open to everywhere playing rules, what is the incentive to run a LFR convention? Or more succinctly where is the incentive for people to travel to our conventions?
I could be wrong but I cant see people traveling and paying lodging for a night or 2 in another city to come and play upto 8 or more rounds of LFR that they could do at home?
There is none. Conventions, at least where I live, are more or less dead this year. This is likely a result of the poorly thought out LFR structure (play anything, anywhere) and the recession.
On the positive side I saved a lot on airfare and hotels this year!
There is none. Conventions, at least where I live, are more or less dead this year. This is likely a result of the poorly thought out LFR structure (play anything, anywhere) and the recession.
On the positive side I saved a lot on airfare and hotels this year!
I think "poorly thought out" is simply a matter of opinion. I travelled to conventions to play, and I would if any were near by. But I for one like the new "play anything, anywhere" philosophy. I can't speak for the organizers, but I'm sure they did think of this, and I'm sure they have the numbers to back them up.
I find I'm doing more home games than ever before, and I for one am loving it. In fact, we did two games this weekend, with a full table. Next weekend, we'll likely do another couple of games for the DMs to play the adventures they ran, and for our other local players who weren't able to attend.
I miss conventions, but I can live without the 4 hour drive. I'll still try to make it to the big shows, which I don't think will hurt much for the new system.
That is more likely because you can play any module, from any region, anywhere. Plus you can replay modules now as well.
I would still prefer a regional and metaregional feel. That way people can get into the story lines within their region or metaregion and not have to try to keep track of 12 regions worth of story lines.
There have been other campaigns (Mark of Heros, Xen'Drik Expeditions) that have been without boundries. They still didn't, apparently, equal the amount of play being seen now.
XE, by all reports, did really well in part because of its "no boundries" faction-based system of play.
Despite all the headaches that cropped up with missed deadlines, and other issues.
More games were sanctioned and played in September 2008 then in any previous month in RPGA history.
The king is dead. Long live the king.
Over here on the west coast (SF bay area), our weekly game-days at local stores are SLAMMED. Where we used to run 2-4 LG tables per week (times two stores), we now run 6-8 LFR tables per week. And we're not keeping up with the module release schedule (we're only just now running the last four 1-1 regionals and will not run any 1-2 regionals until 2009).
Our local labor day con had the highest RPGA table count ever with the premiere of LFR.
Weekend in the realms ran as many tables as any local RPGA con in the area (in two days, our area ran about 18 tables times three slots = 54 tables).
... and that's what i personally know about.
Triads rarely ran conventions out here, they were always run by different active gaming individuals. We had about 3-5 RPGA only cons per year and 2-3 gaming conventions where the RPGA was merely one participant. We WILL have at least one RPGA only conventions next year (albeit smaller than our previous LG cons... only 110 tables instead of the typical 160), and there WILL be an RPGA presence at the larger gaming conventions.
If CONs are not happening in your area, than ask the individuals who typically run them whey they are choosing not to. Maybe they're tired. Maybe they don't want to take the financial risk, maybe they are uninterested in LFR/4e. maybe it's time to "pass the torch".
When you rely on the same four people to coordinate the gaming experience for an entire area, you have a very easy point of failure when those four people stop doing that.
A lot of RPGA convention activity happens at larger gaming conventions. It's relatively easy (and little to no financial risk) to get space at a larger convention to run RPGA events. I'd like to think that GenCOn and Origins cost the RPGA less than DDXP, and probably have bigger attendance numbers (but I don't know that for sure). There's no reason not to run at those events. To those event runners, it's irrelevant whether or not you run 3.5 LG or 4e LFR.
CONs aren't dead. RPGA isn't dead. It's changed. Learn to adapt. And more importantly, if you really WANT a convention, make it happen - don't complain to others that it's impossible.
The incentive for these players (and many did come in from out of state) is to play with friends they've known for years, or to come play adventures so that they can go run them at home and avoid replaying as much as possible.
The important thing is the players have fun, not that their characters get neat rewards.
That's a pretty glass-half-full view of the community we all know and love. :P I would NEVER have been able to sell that one to either of the LG regions I was a Triad for.
That's a pretty glass-half-full view of the community we all know and love. :P I would NEVER have been able to sell that one to either of the LG regions I was a Triad for.
When I became Triad, I got a number of e-mails from my player base - "I know that we focus on having great mods, and that's more important than having good rewards. But those don't have to be mutually exclusive - we can have good mods with good rewards..."
Over here on the west coast (SF bay area), our weekly game-days at local stores are SLAMMED. Where we used to run 2-4 LG tables per week (times two stores), we now run 6-8 LFR tables per week. And we're not keeping up with the module release schedule (we're only just now running the last four 1-1 regionals and will not run any 1-2 regionals until 2009).
CONs aren't dead. RPGA isn't dead. It's changed. Learn to adapt. And more importantly, if you really WANT a convention, make it happen - don't complain to others that it's impossible.
The Bay Area is my favorite RPGA area, lots of good stuff there and its been that way for a long time. The Bay Area had a thriving and active community in all types of conventions before RPGA as well. It really is a special place.
I think that a lot of this comes from the new LFR system being a universal shared experience. You can get the same play experience in Chicago as you can in Minneapolis, so all else being equal, the incentive to drive to Minneapolis is much less.
The LG system had a diversified play experience, and travel from Chicago to Minneapolis provided a reward because it was a different play experience.
In the LG system, the play experience was modified by participants, size, venue, timeliness, and content. With the LFR system, the play experience is changed by only participants, size, and venue. Looking at it analytically, I see less incentive to travel to conventions under LFR than under LG.
But seriously, without the open play I'd not be having as much fun as I am now. I'm still going to drive to DNDXP and Origins in 2009 for the first time each. I can't make gencon since I don't have that much vacation time to spare, at least I don't think I do... maybe my parents won't be ticked if I cancel my march vacation to go down and visit them in florida.
More games were sanctioned and played in September 2008 then in any previous month in RPGA history.
The king is dead. Long live the king.
That's nice to know. I'm glad you have a statistic like that on hand to post on the message board. I do think that being the first full month where a brand new living campaign setting using a new rule set might unbalance the scales of those kinds of numbers however.
So how many of those games were conventions, since that seems to be the topic at hand? A rise in conventions would support a growth theory, followed up by corresponding data from October-November to see if that growth continued, fell or stayed the same. If things continued to rise, then perhaps I could be wrong, I can admit that possibility could happen although I also have to admit your comment was rather rude.
The last convention only games we played for LFR weren't exactly inspiring to get us to play another convention game. We did have the trouble of being the only table run despite three people signing up to judge at it. That's probably the last thing we'll do for LFR unless something drastic changes (4.5 or 5th edition for example) to draw us back in.
Just to point it out, the RPGA is far from the only role playing game association around. The Pathfinder Society, the other Living Campaigns that continue past being RPGA-ditched, the C&C Society, the HMA, etc. Gamers will find ways to game, we continue to swing dice under the banner we choose.
:P
That's nice to know. I'm glad you have a statistic like that on hand to post on the message board.
Grumpy grumpy LOL
I do think that being the first full month where a brand new living campaign setting using a new rule set might unbalance the scales of those kinds of numbers however.
Record numbers are record numbers. You can site your reasons pro or con but numbers are up from LG launch and LG year-to-year. This contradicts your statement of the RPGA being dead. That was the entire point of my response.
So how many of those games were conventions, since that seems to be the topic at hand? A rise in conventions would support a growth theory, followed up by corresponding data from October-November to see if that growth continued, fell or stayed the same. If things continued to rise, then perhaps I could be wrong, I can admit that possibility could happen although I also have to admit your comment was rather rude.
Thats okay. Some find me rude but then again some rather enjoy my bluntness. My response once again was that RPGA play was not declining or the RPGA was 'dead' and not LFR convention incentives. I'm sure Chris, RPGA Content Manager, will speak to LFR and RPGA numbers next month at the RPGA Member's Meeting at D&D Experience. We'll let that do the talking.
The last convention only games we played for LFR weren't exactly inspiring to get us to play another convention game. We did have the trouble of being the only table run despite three people signing up to judge at it. That's probably the last thing we'll do for LFR unless something drastic changes (4.5 or 5th edition for example) to draw us back in.
Just to point it out, the RPGA is far from the only role playing game association around. The Pathfinder Society, the other Living Campaigns that continue past being RPGA-ditched, the C&C Society, the HMA, etc. Gamers will find ways to game, we continue to swing dice under the banner we choose.
We are all well aware there are others choices to game and gaming associations (in fact I'm friends with many that run them and in fact some that do used to work for me). Choices are a good thing. The fact that there are choices has nothing to do with the topic or even my response to an offshoot of it.
Just for the on-topic part I don't think its any campaigns job to support and justify the existance of shoddy conventions. The LG regional system did that. There were shows that were just not well done but survived because the regional system got people to travel and support them for the opportunities they provided. Now that they are gone those shows are folding up. Quality shows existed before LG and quality shows will exist after LG. Provide an excellent play experience and fun and people will travel to play at your show regardless of the system. LFR should be focused, and is, on provided exciting and fun play experiences to as many of its players as possible, and not finding ways to support shows which in reality support and represent a small fraction of a percentage of their player base.
Dave C
We ran a small convention that ran an avg of 4 or 5 tables a day with Saturday being an avg of 6 to 8 (due to an interactive)
Most of our guests came from Oklahoma, with a few from Texas and elsewhere.
So by your logic since we are not a large con we deserve to fold?
So your view is that small conventions were all shoddy?
So by your logic since we are not a large con we deserve to fold?
Dave said that quality conventions will continue and shoddy ones will not. I don't see where he equated small with shoddy in any way... that seemed pretty clear to me.
Joe
Dave said that quality conventions will continue and shoddy ones will not. I don't see where he equated small with shoddy in any way... that seemed pretty clear to me.
Joe
Well, shoddy implies limited resources/supplies/parts, which small conventions often have.
Most of the conventions that will go on from now are the conventions that existed before the RPGA, and added RPGA to their programs. Conventions that sprung up because of RPGA-such as Weekend in the such and such will be the conventions that will face the greatest risk-reward ratio. Risk-reward ratios often involve 80% failure and 20% success.
Well, shoddy implies limited resources/supplies/parts, which small conventions often have.
I'd rather not play the semantics game, but that isn't really what shoddy means and certainly not what Dave was communicating (yes, I read minds).
Shoddy implies that something is of poor quality or an inferior product. The word has no relation to limited resources.
Regarding the incentive to play at conventions and their value as introductions to DnD, there is a critical distinction to make.
Only conventions that offer a wide range of games/systems attract an influx of new players to LFR. RPGA-only conventions are essentially a retention tool that keeps already-invested players interested. Feel free to argue on anecdotal evidence, but this is the case worldwide.
Players who are already invested, (ie: people who attend RPGA-only conventions) will play the game anywhere, whether at home, a FLGS or at a convention. Thus, the common complaint of the invested player; why would I pay to play at a convention when I can play for free at home? Well, the important thing is that they are playing and having fun doing so, rather than where they are doing it.
This is why DDXP offers a limited amount of games for level one PCs. Quite simply, it is an RPGA-only convention attended only by invested RPGA players and it is scheduled accordingly. The popularity of the 4e preview offered at last DDXP is the exception that proves the rule.
Joe
With the way the economy has gone at this point most of them will just save their money to make it to DDXP or Gencon etc. There is no need for them to drive the 2 or 3 hrs and pay for a night of 2 of a hotel room to just come play with friends.
We luckily do not host another con until next summer so we will see how the other conventions in our area go and are populated to play LFR. Then we will see if its worth trying to setup the convention or not.
Grumpy grumpy LOL
You obviously are not happy with the RPGA (it's not everybodys cup of tea) and what it presents so why the trolling?
I'm far from trolling, thought things like your little Grumpy comment are what I'd consider rude, I'm offering my opinion on how things are going for the RPGA as I see them. As for you question, I've been a member of the RPGA for over 5 years now, obviously not as long as a lot of people, but a sizable amount of time. I got my friends into it, brought them to conventions, ran home games, even took a few trips to other cities to play.
I did a number of RPGA style games, Living Dragonstar, Mark of Heroes, Living Greyhawk. I've got some dungeon magazines with Polyhedron and collected some of the older RPGA mods from back when it wasn't just an abbreviation. We even reported our home games and ran them under RPGA guidelines.
Then 4th edition hits, everything is closed down and the RPGA is shoved into the DCI program. It changed how it was and what is being offered has been proving to only push us away from it and 4th edition as a whole since that's the only offering anymore. Instead of being an organization promoting role-playing and gaming like that it's just pushing a rules set we haven’t grown to love over the past few months of playing it.
There is no incentive for us to be a part of any present or future RPGA conventions, to us the RPGA is dying off.
I'm having difficulty trying to understand how you're not trolling.
I'd like to point out that calling someone a troll is, in itself, seen as trolling/baiting in the CoC, and that doing so opens up a poster to being reported and dealt with by the ORCs. Therefore, I recommend we just stop tossing that term around. (It wouldn't hurt, either, if people who've used the term go back and edit their posts accordingly.)
Also - keep in mind that trolling is only a loosely defined term. Someone voicing their true complaints with the system, to me, isn't trolling (unless/until they make a point of repeating themselves ad nauseum).
Others are welcome to their opinions, and even to their own interpretations of facts.
For now, let's stick to the topic of LFR Conventions, and not question each other's posting intentions.
[/VCL]
So you're bitter that a new edition that you personally don't care for got released, and the game company that released it decided to support it. You know the RPGA isn't actually in any danger and is doing better than it's ever done (new campaigns have started before, new editions have been released before, and yet September was the biggest month ever). Your particular group refuses to adapt despite the clear desire of many (likely most) other groups to do so. And through all of this, you decide to blame WotC for "killing" the RPGA.
I'm having difficulty trying to understand how you're not trolling.
I think you just joined the RPGA very recently if you interpret the post that way.
This has to do with conventions and the content they can offer. The LG system was diverse and restricted and the LFR system is uniform and unrestricted. During 2003-2007, many small conventions sprung up to run primarily LG and RPGA games. The OP is saying that these conventions will disappear in many areas because of lack on incentive to run them. The old system created a nitch (your content was limited by geography) and the new system removes that nitch (you content is now not limited by geography).
Living Death, Living Kingdoms of Kalamar, Living Jungle, Living Spycraft, Living Rokugan, Virtual Seattle and even more.
Sure a lot of those still exist, but now as something run by the parent companies. It's sad to see the RPGA shrink back down to just the owner properties like it used to be so very very long ago. At least back then they had Gamma World though. ;)
Why don't you ask the coordinators of the five largest independent RPGA-specific conventions if they will be running a convention in 2009? Ask them why or why not.
I'm sure you have the data to determine which conventions these are. If I had to guess, Theocracy by the Bay and Weekend in Dyvers would be among them. Or just post the top 20 conventions of 2008 by RPGA table count, and we'll eliminate the ones that are part of an existing convention (like Dragon*Con).
Dave,
Why don't you ask the coordinators of the five largest independent RPGA-specific conventions if they will be running a convention in 2009? Ask them why or why not.
I'm sure you have the data to determine which conventions these are. If I had to guess, Theocracy by the Bay and Weekend in Dyvers would be among them. Or just post the top 20 conventions of 2008 by RPGA table count, and we'll eliminate the ones that are part of an existing convention (like Dragon*Con).
I probably could figure it out but I won't because it doesn't matter and really isn't relavent to the discussion. (now don't take that wrong I've run a lot of big shows myself and I understand the work that goes into them and personally know most of the people doing it - this is not belittling their work in any fashion).
People have unreasonable and unfounded expectations of what the RPGA and the LFR campaign are here for. The RPGA is the organized play organization for Wotc gaming products. That is D&D and Star Wars (D&D obviously being the massive chunk of that pie). Their job is to get more people playing D&D and having fun (thus wanting to play more D&D). Everything they do should be based on the foundation of more people playing more games (imo). LFR is the flagship 4th edition campaign that is breaking all records and meeting that goal of more people playing more games. The campaign is open with every person in it having the same play opp's as everybody else. Fair across the board.
So you don't need to travel to play as much as you did with LG. Why is that a bad thing? Are people playing less? No. Are people leaving the RPGA because of it? No. In fact people are joining by the boatload and playing more then ever before.
It's this sense of entitlement that some shows and more-so players have that drives me nuts. "Why should I go to a convention now?" Why is it my or anybody elses job to give you a reason to do something. Was the show fun? It was? Cool go again.
Some conventions want special things to draw in players and thus justify their exsistance. Special things give to the minority and take from the majority. They weaken the campaign because it is not fair across the board anymore. There are the haves and have-nots. Why would a campaign want to do that to itself to keep the few happy?
Run a great and fun convention and you'll be just fine. If you can't run without something special to draw in the extra people then maybe its time to realize you need to shrink or change how you do things.
I think you just joined the RPGA very recently if you interpret the post that way.
I've been an RPGA member since 2004.
And for what it's worth, MFM, I'm the president of the Role Playing Games Club at UCI, and Jake S. and I started the UCI RPGA group a few years ago that you now play and run games in.
This has to do with conventions and the content they can offer. The LG system was diverse and restricted and the LFR system is uniform and unrestricted. During 2003-2007, many small conventions sprung up to run primarily LG and RPGA games. The OP is saying that these conventions will disappear in many areas because of lack on incentive to run them. The old system created a nitch (your content was limited by geography) and the new system removes that nitch (you content is now not limited by geography).
And I'm saying that these conventions disappearing, though perhaps unfortunate, does not come anywhere near signaling the demise of the RPGA when it is clear that it is doing as well as - or better than - it's ever done. Dave put it best, I think.
Dave,
Why don't you ask the coordinators of the five largest independent RPGA-specific conventions if they will be running a convention in 2009? Ask them why or why not.
I'm sure you have the data to determine which conventions these are. If I had to guess, Theocracy by the Bay and Weekend in Dyvers would be among them. Or just post the top 20 conventions of 2008 by RPGA table count, and we'll eliminate the ones that are part of an existing convention (like Dragon*Con).
I ran Theocracy by the Bay for four years, along with a few smaller conventions in the San Jose Bay Area. Our biggest show was 250 tables and we usually ran more tables than Gencon Socal did. By all accounts, TbtB was a strong convention, I had a lot of people come from across the country to play, had a very high repeat attendance rate, and still get emails from people who are going to run a convention asking for advice.
I will not be running a convention in 2009. The new RPGA rules change the economics of the convention business. The people who travelled to the convention and stayed in the hotel enabled me to get a discount on the meeting room space that made the event affordable. If I lose the 15% of attendees who stay at the hotel, I will lose money, even if I raise the price for the other 85% by half. Now I don't run conventions to make money, but I do incur a large personal financial risk in doing so--I do it to provide a service to the local gaming community and to raise money for charity. We have raised more than $8000 for the local humane society.
Large RPGA only conventions did more to foster a sense of community than anything else I can think of during Living Greyhawk. If WotC chooses to throw those conventions under a bus because they don't fit their new model, that is certainly their choice. It is my choice to not run a convention. Local gamers lose, puppies lose, but somehow WotC wins.
Bart Scott
I ran Theocracy by the Bay for four years, along with a few smaller conventions in the San Jose Bay Area. Our biggest show was 250 tables and we usually ran more tables than Gencon Socal did. By all accounts, TbtB was a strong convention, I had a lot of people come from across the country to play, had a very high repeat attendance rate, and still get emails from people who are going to run a convention asking for advice.
I will not be running a convention in 2009. The new RPGA rules change the economics of the convention business. The people who travelled to the convention and stayed in the hotel enabled me to get a discount on the meeting room space that made the event affordable. If I lose the 15% of attendees who stay at the hotel, I will lose money, even if I raise the price for the other 85% by half. Now I don't run conventions to make money, but I do incur a large personal financial risk in doing so--I do it to provide a service to the local gaming community and to raise money for charity. We have raised more than $8000 for the local humane society.
Large RPGA only conventions did more to foster a sense of community than anything else I can think of during Living Greyhawk. If WotC chooses to throw those conventions under a bus because they don't fit their new model, that is certainly their choice. It is my choice to not run a convention. Local gamers lose, puppies lose, but somehow WotC wins.
Bart Scott
Do local gamers really lose? What's preventing them from setting up local game days in the area? Are you saying that your convention's primary draw was the mods people could only play there? It might suck for your convention that the draw is gone, but the players now can participate in all the mods without having to make a huge deal out of it.
Do local gamers really lose? What's preventing them from setting up local game days in the area? Are you saying that your convention's primary draw was the mods people could only play there? It might suck for your convention that the draw is gone, but the players now can participate in all the mods without having to make a huge deal out of it.
Yes, they do. We already have game days at two local stores (I started them at one of them). Conventions create a sense of community, far more so than a couple tables in the back room of a game store. Having 160 people playing at the same time, lets people mix, meet new friends and feel like a part of something bigger than just their table.
Conventions are also a great tool for developing judges. At a game store, a handful of people generally handle all of the judging duties. At a huge con, you need more judges, and I did a lot of judge development that increased the number of judges in the area. Quite a few of the area judges started at one of my cons (with low APL mods). Now the amount of play is constrained by the limited space at the game stores, and not everyone who wants to play gets to. I had enough capacity to make sure everyone who registered by one week prior to the con got to play as much as they wanted, and even had room for some walk ins.
Conventions are more immersive. When you are rushing to a game store after work and have to worry about getting home to get enough sleep so you can function at work the next day, you are not having as much as fun as you could at a convention where gaming is all you are doing for a day.
Local players could set up their own game days, but those require organization. After I started running cons, several gamers approached me about running big game days mid way between large cons, and that never went anywhere. The people with the skill set to run large game days happen to be the people that run cons.
Like I (and several other successful con organizers) have said, RPGA only cons are going to dramatically decrease in size and numbers. I think this is a bad thing for the RPGA.
Run a great and fun convention and you'll be just fine. If you can't run without something special to draw in the extra people then maybe its time to realize you need to shrink or change how you do things.
Gencon is having some financial difficulty, and we already lost So Cal Gencon, which was a really a great and fun convention.
And for what it's worth, MFM, I'm the president of the Role Playing Games Club at UCI, and Jake S. and I started the UCI RPGA group a few years ago that you now play and run games in.
Thank you very much for the group and all the hard work. I have been gaming with that group since I moved to California and like it very much-the people are friendly and there is always plenty of gaming. It has gone on to become the longest-running regular RPGA group in Southern California.
What ceregon said. A good convention provides a lot more than just opportunities to play modules X, Y, and Z...unfortunately, a fair number of gamers don't see beyond that.
I would say that it isn't the gamers' fault. Something not-so-simple is the actual culprit, and the area where people like Ceregon seem to be ignoring/ignorant of, the way to let people know of the value your convention adds:
Marketing. Good marketing (including advertising) is the key to keeping your LFR-only convention alive. If all you advertise are the modules played, then you don't have a draw for anyone who isn't local.
If, on the other hand, you emphasize some of the other things available, like "Meet new players", "Play 3 scheduled games, and a possible Midnight Madness game each day", etc.; you might still have a draw for non-locals to come. Don't forget to mention local attractions, either.
You probably won't pull anyone from New York City to come to Los Angeles, but you can probably draw people within a few hundred miles to your convention.
Ceregon, did you unilaterally decide to kill Theocracy by the Bay, or did you run a poll of the people who have attended in the past before deciding to kill it?
What ceregon said. A good convention provides a lot more than just opportunities to play modules X, Y, and Z...unfortuantely, a fair number of gamers don't see beyond that.
If a good convention has little to do with the actual modules, then that convention should be able to live regardless of having some kind of exclusive adventure draw. If the gamers aren't interested in creating that sense of community, what's the issue?
EDIT: What kinevon said.
Thank you very much for the group and all the hard work. I have been gaming with that group since I moved to California and like it very much-the people are friendly and there is always plenty of gaming. It has gone on to become the longest-running regular RPGA group in Southern California.
I've been very pleased with its sustainability, too. I'm in the process of getting UCI sanctioned as a Game Day location so that I can start organizing games through the actual club (complete with reserved rooms and some actual students playing). I'll keep you posted.
I would say that it isn't the gamers' fault. Something not-so-simple is the actual culprit, and the area where people like Ceregon seem to be ignoring/ignorant of, the way to let people know of the value your convention adds:
Marketing. Good marketing (including advertising) is the key to keeping your LFR-only convention alive. If all you advertise are the modules played, then you don't have a draw for anyone who isn't local.
If, on the other hand, you emphasize some of the other things available, like "Meet new players", "Play 3 scheduled games, and a possible Midnight Madness game each day", etc.; you might still have a draw for non-locals to come. Don't forget to mention local attractions, either.
My point was that there were players in LG whose primary (if not sole) reason for traveling to out-of-town conventions was to play stuff that they couldn't play at home...be it out-of-region modules, specials, interactives, whatever. I suspect that the other "features" of a convention that ceregon mentioned aren't particularly relevant to many of those players, and the things you mention probably won't do much to attract them.
It certainly doesn't help that the economy's in the tank, and there are likely many players who aren't traveling to out-of-town cons for that reason, as well.
You have the repeat players, who met some nice people, enjoyed playing with them, and come back to spend time with their convention buddies.
You have the people who come in with the family, and spend only part of the itme at the con, and some of the time with their families seeing the sights, making their family vacation coincide with a special event for Mom or Dad. Or Junior...
Sometimes a con will serve as a lead-in (or follow-up) to another event. ConQuest Vegas, for instance, specifically grabs the weekend right before or after GAMA to grab the early or late crowd.
Get special rates for extra days at your facility, encourage people to get in early or late to take advantage of local sightseeing stuff, or schedule around special events.
GAMA, national rodeo, CES, Road America, etc.
I would say that it isn't the gamers' fault. Something not-so-simple is the actual culprit, and the area where people like Ceregon seem to be ignoring/ignorant of, the way to let people know of the value your convention adds:
Marketing. Good marketing (including advertising) is the key to keeping your LFR-only convention alive. If all you advertise are the modules played, then you don't have a draw for anyone who isn't local.
If, on the other hand, you emphasize some of the other things available, like "Meet new players", "Play 3 scheduled games, and a possible Midnight Madness game each day", etc.; you might still have a draw for non-locals to come. Don't forget to mention local attractions, either.
You probably won't pull anyone from New York City to come to Los Angeles, but you can probably draw people within a few hundred miles to your convention.
Ceregon, did you unilaterally decide to kill Theocracy by the Bay, or did you run a poll of the people who have attended in the past before deciding to kill it?
First of all, I really don't like being called ignorant. I put together some of the most successful (both financially successful and very popular with gamers) RPGA conventions on the west coast. I don't know of many other RPGA only conventions anywhere in the country that ran as many tables we did.
The problem with your suggestions is that they "might" attract people. I have to sign contracts that could potentially cost me thousands of dollars and I'm not going to take that risk when all signs point to a decrease in the viability of conventions. I have ten years of experience negotiating with hotels and planning events and am familiar with the usual tactics.
I decided to not run a convention in 2009 after running the numbers and talking to other convention organizers. I also talked to several out-of-towners who attended multiple conventions of mine, and they aren't coming. They would like to, but the costs are no longer justified in their opinion. I can't really blame them either, I used to fly to 6-8 conventions per year, in 2009 I might go to 2. I don't need to poll all of the attendees. Many of them have emailed me hoping that I'll run another con, but once again, and I cannot state this strongly enough, if I lose the 15% of my attendees who stay in the hotel, the costs of the convention become too high. If all of my attendees are local, I'm going to lose money on every table I rent space for, and that means I can't make it up in volume.
Certainly, but are those the only players who came in from out-of-town?
Probably not...but if enough of them are, it may be enough to turn what was a money-making (or at least break-even) convention in the LG days into a money-loser in the LFR days, as ceregon describes.
If all of my attendees are local, I'm going to lose money on every table I rent space for, and that means I can't make it up in volume.
Why not? It worked for the Change Bank (or, if you want a gaming reference, Eve and Larry's Alchemy from OOTS - same joke).
:P
Why not? It worked for the Change Bank (or, if you want a gaming reference, Eve and Larry's Alchemy from OOTS - same joke).
Yeah...I used to work on a product (a very well-known brand name, in fact) that had a "value" positioning (i.e., it was sold at a VERY low price, compared to the competition). A guy I worked with compared it to "Uncle Larry's Used Cars -- we lose a little bit on every sale, but we make it up in the volume!!!"
Certainly, but are those the only players who came in from out-of-town?
You have the repeat players, who met some nice people, enjoyed playing with them, and come back to spend time with their convention buddies.
You have the people who come in with the family, and spend only part of the itme at the con, and some of the time with their families seeing the sights, making their family vacation coincide with a special event for Mom or Dad. Or Junior...
Sometimes a con will serve as a lead-in (or follow-up) to another event. ConQuest Vegas, for instance, specifically grabs the weekend right before or after GAMA to grab the early or late crowd.
Get special rates for extra days at your facility, encourage people to get in early or late to take advantage of local sightseeing stuff, or schedule around special events.
GAMA, national rodeo, CES, Road America, etc.
The number of people who would be interested in such an arrangement approaches zero.
You have single people, who aren't interested in sightseeing by themselves.
You have married people with nongaming spouses, who spend wife points to game, and can't spend more to stick around town. The spouse is probably not interested in sightseeing without her spouse, either.
You have married couples who game, who may only have a limited time to spend away from their children. Or they may not have enough time, money, or interest in making a longer vacation.
Many events in town also occur on weekends. If they're big enough, they'll either take your hotel space entirely, or charge rates far above what gamers want to spend.
The only time I've stayed after a gaming convention is in Las Vegas. Since that's where you're from, perhaps your perspective is skewed.
I suspect the only large independent RPGA-specific conventions that are going to survive are those operating in large game stores, or which have unusually low-cost gaming space (like the Tommy G. Thompson Youth Center). And even those are going to see a big drop in gamers coming from more than an hour and a half's drive away.
Over the Thanksgiving weekend, I worked at the Stuffed COWS convention in suburban Chicago (at the College of DuPage). The con offered a variety of games: LFR, of course, but also LG, Living Arcanis, Witch Hunter, and Pathfinder Society, among others.
In past years, when the con's focus was on LG (and frequently had Verbobonc premieres or specials), we could count on getting a dozen or so players coming down from Wisconsin, a few from Michigan, a few from Iowa, a few from Indiana, etc. (including a number of LG Triad members from other regions).
This year, we still had a few folks from those areas, but only a handful. The vast majority of the attendees were from the immediate area. Overall, attendance was indeed down. How much of that was due to not needing to travel to play particular modules, versus the weak economy, is hard to say. But, the loyal players who used to travel for Stuffed COWS know all about it (it's run on the same weekend, in the same place, for a decade or so). For whatever reason, players who used to come, didn't.
Some conventions want special things to draw in players and thus justify their existence. Special things give to the minority and take from the majority. They weaken the campaign because it is not fair across the board anymore. There are the haves and have-nots. Why would a campaign want to do that to itself to keep the few happy?
Run a great and fun convention and you'll be just fine. If you can't run without something special to draw in the extra people then maybe its time to realize you need to shrink or change how you do things.
David, when I go to your con's website and see the front page plastered with depictions of the special events, and then I read this, I have to wonder if you're being incongruous as a matter of principle, or whether there's some other motive. Indeed, I must say that you're probably the worst possible mouthpiece for Wizards on this issue, as it is clear you're the primary beneficiary.
However, you're fortunate because you have the opportunity to demonstrate to this community the truth and honesty of your statements. I challenge you to strike 'SPEC1-2', 'Beyond the Door', 'Siege of Blood and Shadow' and the 'Preview Material' from your schedule, offer a refund of people's con tickets and badges, then return after the con to say that you honestly didn't lose your 'extra people' because you ran a 'great and fun convention'. Anything less, and you remain the only 'have' in a sea of 'have-not' convention organizers.
I'm sure 'you'll be just fine', as you promise. Do you feel confident walking this walk? If not, I'm not sure you're the best mouthpiece for the RPGA concerning these issues.
Brayden Glad
But you sure did a good job of appearing haughty.
I don't think that would do anything but illustrate his point - that conventions have become artificially big and rely on exclusivity that attracts people who don't go for the content of the convention but rather the ability to experience something first, or that few other people get to experience. This is, again, a boon to the minority and a slight to the majority, and it's something that the RPGA is clearly toning back. That's a good thing, it was far too prevalent.
But you sure did a good job of appearing haughty.
Thank you
Mr. Christ said,
David, when I go to your con's website and see the front page plastered with depictions of the special events, and then I read this, I have to wonder if you're being incongruous as a matter of principle, or whether there's some other motive. Indeed, I must say that you're probably the worst possible mouthpiece for Wizards on this issue, as it is clear you're the primary beneficiary.
However, you're fortunate because you have the opportunity to demonstrate to this community the truth and honesty of your statements. I challenge you to strike 'SPEC1-2', 'Beyond the Door', 'Siege of Blood and Shadow' and the 'Preview Material' from your schedule, offer a refund of people's con tickets and badges, then return after the con to say that you honestly didn't lose your 'extra people' because you ran a 'great and fun convention'. Anything less, and you remain the only 'have' in a sea of 'have-not' convention organizers.
I'm sure 'you'll be just fine', as you promise. Do you feel confident walking this walk? If not, I'm not sure you're the best mouthpiece for the RPGA concerning these issues.
Brayden Glad
I'm just a bad bad puddycat.
D&D Experience is a Wotc show I run for them. I don't make the schedule. I run it. Regardless Spec1-2 will run at other shows just like Sec1-1 is right now. I'm sure Beyond the Door will be released and the Delve will run at other shows as well.
Also I'm not the RPGA's mouthpiece. I'm just somebody who has run shows for them and for myself and has an opinion. Weight it how you want.
Regardless of those corrections I've never said shows won't loose people. That would be a pretty silly statement to make. What I've said is good shows will continue to be good shows and draw people in and marginal shows that got by because the system proped them up will not. I do not think it is a good idea for the RPGA to change or implement a system to support marginal shows at the cost of other players feeling slighted. That's what people want. They want shows to have special things to force people to travel to them if they want to play them.
I just cannot see why this conversation has even dragged on to this point. You can jump up and down on the reasons you think justify it (community, source of new members, etc.) but in the end the have-nots the system creates outnumber the ones who benefit from it by a huge margin.
Regardless of those corrections I've never said shows won't lose people. That would be a pretty silly statement to make. What I've said is good shows will continue to be good shows and draw people in and marginal shows that got by because the system propped them up will not. I do not think it is a good idea for the RPGA to change or implement a system to support marginal shows at the cost of other players feeling slighted. That's what people want. They want shows to have special things to force people to travel to them if they want to play them.
You must not care about the point that ceregon made.
A good convention will still attract people, but if they aren't the right people, the people who will stay in the hotel, the convention cannot be run at a financially appropriate level. His convention could attract 10% more people, because it's so fun, but if they're all locals, the convention will be a financial disaster.
Independent convention organizers do not have a corporation funding their costs out of the corporation's marketing budget.
You must not care about the point that ceregon made.
A good convention will still attract people, but if they aren't the right people, the people who will stay in the hotel, the convention cannot be run at a financially appropriate level. His convention could attract 10% more people, because it's so fun, but if they're all locals, the convention will be a financial disaster.
Indepentent convention organizers do not have a corporation funding their costs out of their marketing budget
This has nothing to do with me 'not caring'. It's called being realistic.
It is not the RPGA's job to attract the 'right people' to Ceregon's show. With the LG model he had the tools to attract the right players to run the show as he wanted to run it. Now that campaign is gone and has been replaced by a new one (it happens and will happen again). The campaign decided to go with an open format that benefits everybody over those that can travel (and a decision as I've stated that I agree with). That format does not support the same benefits to traveling that the old campaign did and it is not beholden to anybody to do so.
Get some friends, play D&D, and have fun. Been plastered all over the place. The RPGA and LFR support that from top to bottom. Nowhere does it say get some friends, a plane ticket, some hotel rooms, play D&D, and have fun nor should it.
This has nothing to do with me 'not caring'. It's called being realistic.
It is not the RPGA's job to attract the 'right people' to Ceregon's show. With the LG model he had the tools to attract the right players to run the show as he wanted to run it. Now that campaign is gone and has been replaced by a new one (it happens and will happen again). The campaign decided to go with an open format that benefits everybody over those that can travel (and a decision as I've stated that I agree with). That format does not support the same benefits to traveling that the old campaign did and it is not beholden to anybody to do so.
Get some friends, play D&D, and have fun. Been plastered all over the place. The RPGA and LFR support that from top to bottom. Nowhere does it say get some friends, a plane ticket, some hotel rooms, play D&D, and have fun nor should it.
The current system doesn't benefit everyone, it benefits even less people. Now if I want access to extra content I have to travel to DDXP instead of driving 3 hours. It's easy to say such things when you're one of the last conventions with access to said content.
Your attitude would be different if you were an organizer for a smaller con that died out due to the new campaign's structure.
The current system doesn't benefit everyone, it benefits even less people. Now if I want access to extra content I have to travel to DDXP instead of driving 3 hours. It's easy to say such things when you're one of the last conventions with access to said content.
Your attitude would be different if you were an organizer for a smaller con that died out due to the new campaign's structure.
No it wouldn't. I am well aware things change and not always in ways that benefit me or things I work on. It requires people to have the ability to step back form their personal involvement in things and see the big picture. If you're always focused on yourself then ya some changes will tick you off no matter what the reasoning is behind them.
Also if you would have read everything you would realize that no you don't have to drive to DDXP for extra content because everything at the show will be released later just like everything from Gencon has been released for play (I believe the special is open to all on January 1st). People are coming to the show because it's fun, perhaps local to them now, and they get to spend a lot of time with friends they don't normally see. I know several from Europe and Australia coming over and I know for a fact it's not due to the content we're running.
Playing something six months before everyone else, when your characters are the appropriate level to play it, is a big pull.
People can play SPEC1-1 in January, six months after it debuted at GenCon.
Playing something six months before everyone else, when your characters are the appropriate level to play it, is a big pull.
It is? That's odd. Most people I heard (and I have heard a lot of them) were complaining that since special content was now playable at home, even after a period of time, it was no longer a "pull" at all, much less a "big pull." "Now I have no reason to go to GenCon or DDXP at all" is what I hear most of the time.
Maybe we can sum this up so we can let it go. WotC chose a campaign model for LFR that removed certain elements that enticed and "incentivized" travel to other regions and to conventions in favor of a campaign model that attempts to give everyone the same play opportunities as everyone else.
They did this with full understanding that this would reduce the incentives to attend conventions for those people who attended conventions for certain reasons (getting content they couldn't get elsewhere). There are still people who attend conventions for other reasons. However, they knew that certain conventions probably would fold--while that is too bad (and I am one who ran conventions in the past that counted on people seeking out-of-region or unique content and still lost money because I wasn't doing it for money), WotC feels, I believe, that the players gained by making the content distribution more fair and wide-ranging greatly, greatly, greatly outpaces those who will be turned off because they benefited from creating artificial restrictions on play, turning the campaign into a case of "haves" and "have-nots." And I happen to agree with them.
It is a shame that certain conventions who catered to the "haves" will suffer or fold. Maybe as the campaign progresses we (as members of the RPGA and LFR staff) can find ways to make conventions more attractive to people without again creating an environment where the few who had the time and money to travel and attend conventions will want to without disenfranchising the majority of the players who cannot.
Some may posit that the community that conventions foster is more important to the campaign than providing equal play opportunities to the majority of the players. Whether this is true or not may or may not be seen over time, because even hindsight is not 20/20 and is twisted by the opinions of those trying to prove their points. But that is the course WotC has set at this time, and that is the course we shall follow.
Thanks,
Shawn
LFR Global Admin
RPGA Convention Coordinator for a few years
People can play SPEC1-1 in January, six months after it debuted at GenCon.
Playing something six months before everyone else, when your characters are the appropriate level to play it, is a big pull.
3 months and 2 weeks. Not 6 months.
If that time frame really makes that big of a difference then travel. I doubt to the majority it does.
Replied about 4 days late.
Post therefore irrelevant, and discarded.
WotC chose a campaign model for LFR that removed certain elements that enticed and "incentivized" travel to other regions and to conventions in favor of a campaign model that attempts to give everyone the same play opportunities as everyone else.
Thank you for this, btw.
As a player, I am actively playing in the organization now at least partially due to this change.
Originally Posted by Ferol, Debtor of Torm
People can play SPEC1-1 in January, six months after it debuted at GenCon.
Playing something six months before everyone else, when your characters are the appropriate level to play it, is a big pull.
3 months and 2 weeks. Not 6 months.
If that time frame really makes that big of a difference then travel. I doubt to the majority it does.
What about 4 months and 2 weeks, David? Because I'm fairly certain Gen Con was in August. That makes you more than 60% as wrong as the guy you corrected.
Shawn, I'm sure you realize that in the long run, saying you agree with a decision, but then addressing a counterargument only by claiming that decision came from above makes you appear toady at best and ineffective at worst.
Merwin said:
And I happen to agree with them...Some may posit that the community that conventions foster is more important to the campaign than providing equal play opportunities to the majority of the players. Whether this is true or not may or may not be seen over time, because even hindsight is not 20/20 and is twisted by the opinions of those trying to prove their points. But that is the course WotC has set at this time, and that is the course we shall follow.
Brayden Glad
Shawn, I'm sure you realize that in the long run, saying you agree with a decision, but then addressing a counterargument only by claiming that decision came from above makes you appear toady at best and ineffective at worst.
Well, I guess I shouldn't have tried to be reasonable and rationale by looking at all sides of the issue. I'll just go back to being my toady and ineffective self. At least we were able to have a productive discussion without getting personal.
Well, I guess I shouldn't have tried to be reasonable and rationale by looking at all sides of the issue. I'll just go back to being my toady and ineffective self. At least we were able to have a productive discussion without getting personal.
There is no room here for reason or being rationale. Just bile and discontent being spewed forth. I should have stuck with my statement of being done with this thread weeks ago. At this point I am though. I've stated my views. Done.
Apparently now according to the letter I got the other day, it'll be to get campaign cards and the like. Player rewards is now going to be convention support program?
Yes but they have as of yet to quantify what constitutes a Convention. Until they post all the updates to the Rewards system we will not know. It would be nice if the card prize support included every convention, but I will wait to see.
Some of them quite large as well.
Weird how they managed to get people to attend without "regional" events.
-karma
It looks like the RPGA Rewards program is getting an overhaul. It will focus more on being a DM. The card rewards will be moved over and used as convention support. Perhaps this aspect will help those who wish to hold conventions attract players.
and regardless of that shouldn't the DM's be the ones we are rewarded first (and the most) over the players? They are the ones putting in the hours and hours of work to make playing possible in the first place.
It looks like the RPGA Rewards program is getting an overhaul. It will focus more on being a DM. The card rewards will be moved over and used as convention support. Perhaps this aspect will help those who wish to hold conventions attract players.
Mr. Christ says
and regardless of that shouldn't the DM's be the ones we are rewarded first (and the most) over the players? They are the ones putting in the hours and hours of work to make playing possible in the first place.
Well, hopefully they will make the cards widely available to many cons, not just the 3 RPGA cons, but still require the 25 table convention definition...and maybe they can make the cards region specific as long as everyone now has a 'standard' set of cards to use.
If they cycle through sets of cards quickly (aka, 1 set/month) that will give an incentive to go to cons as well as greatly diversify use. Most people's card stacks for a given class seem to me to be about the same everywhere and every time.
Un a relatively unrelated note, I'm quoting David here due to the novelty of agreeing with him on something.
Brayden Glad
That said, I'll be in attendance, and be sure to take notes for sharing as soon as the meeting is over (if not during the meeting).
Hmm. . . maybe I'll Twitter the announcements as they come out. That'd make a handy log. . .
So, I think many local cons will be able to distinguish themselves by aiming at specific character levels. If you want to be able to play your Paragon or Epic character more than every month or so, it might mean hopping over to the next state or province and attending the convention that is offering nothing but 11-20 modules. For many people, they would be able to play more with one or two characters in a single weekend than in six months of local games or smaller conventions that can't offer as much range.
Hmm. . . maybe I'll Twitter the announcements as they come out. That'd make a handy log. . .
Those of us who won't be able to make it would most definitely appreciate this!
Those of us who won't be able to make it would most definitely appreciate this!
I'm sure I'll post my impressions of the meeting shortly afterward, but if you want "real time" tweets, I'll be happy to oblige - my other twitter followers will just have to be patient with me spamming them for that hour.
I don't promise I'll be able to keep up with @replies, but I can try.
It shouldn't be hard to find me on twitter either, for those who are curious/anticipatory.
