http://www.forbeck.com/2008/12/03/the-gen-con-drama-deepens/
Anyone know what this means for Gencon in the future and especially us LFR players?
It's unlikely that, via bankruptcy or via a takeover (hostile or friendly) that GenCon, the show, is going to go away - though, yes, stranger things have happened.
With that said, odds are good that WotC, or at least the RPGA, will want to continue to be present at the show - being as it's the largest hobby gaming show in the country. Yes, there was some drama this past summer over WotC attending or not - but that was largely due to the bankruptcy court case, and (it is rumored) due in no small part to the fact that WotC was one of the companies owed money.
To say "GenCon owes us money" in court, but then give them more money for the next should would, I suspect, be a conflict of interest in no small way (I'm not a lawyer in any way, this is all personal speculation).
So, the options I forsee are:
1) GenCon (the show) dies on the vine.
SOMEONE will pickup the detritus and in a few years there will be a new show with a new name, under new management. This year would probably leave a vaccuum.
2) GenCon is taken over
The RPGA/WotC signs new contracts, and the show goes on.
3) GenCon files their bankruptcy plan, re-orgs, and comes out okay in the end.
See #2.
Carl
FWIW: The "GenCon Acquisition Group" (those who made an unsolicitied bid to buy GenCon) stated that the convention would continue to be held in Indianapolis.
Well, I don't think there are many other places that make sense. (I also know that, a couple of years ago, GenCon LLC looked at their options in other cities, and elected not to move the convention.)
The Indy Convention Center is quite large (and will be even larger in a couple of years, as the RCA Dome is being torn down, and the Convention Center will expand into that space). GenCon totally fills the convention center, as well as pretty much every bit of meeting space in the surrounding hotels.
AFAIK, the only convention center in the Midwest that can compete with that, from a space standpoint, is McCormick Place in Chicago. But, McCormick is significantly more expensive, and the hotel situation in Chicago isn't nearly as good as it is in Indy (there are only a couple of hotels close to McCormick; most people who attend conventions at McCormick stay at downtown hotels, and take buses to and from the convention).
So, that'd leave them with thinking about moving outside of the Midwest. While moving to another part of the country would be appealing to people from that region, the fact that GenCon is fairly centrally located may play a role in the size of its attendance. And, even then, there's likely a fairly limited number of convention centers that are big enough for a convention the size of GenCon.
I'd speculate it means very little for us as a whole.
3) GenCon files their bankruptcy plan, re-orgs, and comes out okay in the end.
See #2.
And from statements Gencon LLC has made their re-org is going very well and they've negotiated with all their debtors. They estimated they could come out of Chapter 11 protection in early spring next year. So this could all be moot points in short order (and I really hope the Gencon Acquisition Group gets nowhere near Gencon in any fashion).
News Release: http://www.gencon.com/2009/corporate/press/releases/2009/2009.01.09.press.aspx
GenCon Forum Discussion: http://community.gencon.com/forums/p/19029/212499.aspx#212499
See you all there in August.
I know I didn't attend last year because of this.
I do not understand the attachment to the name anyway. The con is not held in Lake Geneva WI anymore.
I want a great con, and could care less what it is called or how many roman numerals follow its name.
If GenCon wasn't able to make these changes, then the options of selling the name *might* have been an option.
As it stands GenCon LLC has lots of experience with running what has become the nations largest gaming convention. Frankly, for the health of the show, I'm glad they've been able to pull through.
Another company would have picked up the pieces, sure, but I suspect it would have taken perhaps 5 or more years for them to really bring things up to speed (and I may be a bit generous there).
GenCon LLC pulling out of bankruptcy is the best thing that could have happened for the show.
Seeing these folks get 'cheated' by legal maneuvering cheeses me off.
I might attend future events, as this is still the keystone con, but I will NEVER buy another piece of Gen Con gear. They seem to have misspent the money from my previous purchases. I cannot support the fools more than through my ticket purchases (and those will irk me forever more).
I will buy my convention mementos from other vendors who actual need the support and will make good use of my patronage and do not need to cry to uncle sugar and ask that the government step in and allow them pay off their vendors for pennies on the dollar.
Besides, I will go out on a limb and assume that among the hardest hit by the court allowed debt relief (bill reduction) will be their primary T-shirt/badge/bag/silkscreeners/printers/etc they have used in the past. Perhaps their future items will be of lower quality as they likely will not be using the same folks they so recently burned (if these folks even managed to stay in business after getting stiffed). The quality of these items might suffer if they have to go to new sources.
As for the organization itself, I hope the management of Gen Con is totally replaced. If they could not make money during the past few years when things were pretty good, they certainly are going to be in trouble now that people are going to be a little (if not alot) more budget conscious.
Well if the same poor managers are running the show, the opportunity to buy the name will come up again. Next time they will have to go Chapter 7 or sell out before getting that far in debt.
But how many other's got shortchanged in the Chapter 11 hearing? Companies have thin enough margins as it is. Getting hosed on your own labor is bad enough, but likely the cost of goods is greater than the settlement and these folks really got hosed horribly.
Seeing these folks get 'cheated' by legal maneuvering cheeses me off.
I might attend future events, as this is still the keystone con, but I will NEVER buy another piece of Gen Con gear. They seem to have misspent the money from my previous purchases. I cannot support the fools more than through my ticket purchases (and those will irk me forever more).
I will buy my convention mementos from other vendors who actual need the support and will make good use of my patronage and do not need to cry to uncle sugar and ask that the government step in and allow them pay off their vendors for pennies on the dollar.
Besides, I will go out on a limb and assume that among the hardest hit by the court allowed debt relief (bill reduction) will be their primary T-shirt/badge/bag/silkscreeners/printers/etc they have used in the past. Perhaps their future items will be of lower quality as they likely will not be using the same folks they so recently burned (if these folks even managed to stay in business after getting stiffed). The quality of these items might suffer if they have to go to new sources.
As for the organization itself, I hope the management of Gen Con is totally replaced. If they could not make money during the past few years when things were pretty good, they certainly are going to be in trouble now that people are going to be a little (if not alot) more budget conscious.
Well if the same poor managers are running the show, the opportunity to buy the name will come up again. Next time they will have to go Chapter 7 or sell out before getting that far in debt.
What in the world are you talking about???
GenCon's bankruptcy plan is to pay off each creditor the full amount of their submitted claim in increments over time. No one is getting less than they submitted damages for. So ultimately no one is getting "screwed".
It was Gallela's GAG group that offered to pay 70% of the debt in full if the groups accepted, rather than be incremently paid. GC is meeting all of its debt square on , and has shown that their reorg plan generated a profit last year. Having worked on a number of conventions, I can tell you it's almost impossible to operate large ones like this at a profit each year. You simply hope the losses aren't so great that they offset the tax benefits.
I'm looking forward to moving forward under the same group that has defied the last few year's economical trends, and actually added customers and growth...unlike many other cons/trade shows that have seen drops in attendance/funds.
I'm sorry you won't be there to enjoy this truly unique experience with the rest of us, but I think your venom is majorly placed on the wrong people.
Gen Con Announces a New Registration System
Gen Con was given an opportunity on January 5th for the development of a new registration system. This is a brand new,
adaptable system that promises to be flexible and agile enough to grow with us rather than against us. Gone are the days
of the system crashing, difficulty searching events and slow performance. While we will be developing the system as we
go, we strongly feel the pros far outweigh the cons. You spoke, we listened, and now we all have a new registration system.
What does this mean to you? Well, it means you will need to create a new account in the new system by going to
registration.gencon.com, starting next week. Also, please note that Badge Registration has been pushed to Sunday,
February 15th at 12:00 pm (ET) and Hotel Registration will go live on Tuesday, February 17th at 12:00 pm (ET), due
to the Monday holiday. More information on account creation and registration will be coming soon!
We thank you in advance for your patience and apologize for the short notice of this announcement. We are very much
aware of what this type of development schedule means, and there will undoubtedly be some hiccups along the way. We
know you will have lots of questions; we will keep you posted as developments arise.
We are very excited about this opportunity and know you will be too!
Essentially this means that in order to submit events or register for a badge/events, you will need to create a NEW ACCOUNT when the system goes online....hopefully today around Noon PST.
What in the world are you talking about???
GenCon's bankruptcy plan is to pay off each creditor the full amount of their submitted claim in increments over time. No one is getting less than they submitted damages for. So ultimately no one is getting "screwed".
It was Gallela's GAG group that offered to pay 70% of the debt in full if the groups accepted, rather than be incremently paid. GC is meeting all of its debt square on , and has shown that their reorg plan generated a profit last year. Having worked on a number of conventions, I can tell you it's almost impossible to operate large ones like this at a profit each year. You simply hope the losses aren't so great that they offset the tax benefits.
I'm looking forward to moving forward under the same group that has defied the last few year's economical trends, and actually added customers and growth...unlike many other cons/trade shows that have seen drops in attendance/funds.
I'm sorry you won't be there to enjoy this truly unique experience with the rest of us, but I think your venom is majorly placed on the wrong people.
Have you ever run a business?
You get a request for quotation, and replay with a quote. You get a purchase order (contract) confirming the order at your quote price. You lay out cost of goods, add in labor/overhead/shipping and a few measley percentages for profit, and then make delivery and give someone your invoice for payment as per the terms of the quotation/PO... which the purchaser now wants to take much much much more than the agreed upon (likely 30 days) terms to settle. You either had to to settle for 70% or hire a lawyer to get your claims in for the bankruptcy (the cost of the lawyer may have outweighed the potential recoup in possible write-off... resulting in a virtual blackmail to settle for 70%).
If you ever even delivered papers and had someone stiff you would know what fire was lit under me when I hear about bankruptcy. I have had to lay off 40% of my workers when just one of my four major clients went from paying between net30 and net45 to going belly up. My business survived fine, and my lifestyle never changed, but that is only because I protected my family at the cost of those families of the workers I let go to balance my bottom line. I hated handing out pink slips, but when contracts are 'renegotiated' and not honored little things like employees getting steady work and steady pay are now very much in doubt.
Modern bankruptcy laws might require a higher payback (even a full amount, eventually) BUT tying up your creditors capital like that is terribly rude and the bankrupt party's inability to pay their creditors in a timely manner due to these filing/ruling/agreement delays could severly damage the creditor's/vendor's credit rating, cause layoffs, or even result in bankruptcy in the creditor/vendor.
I might be expressing an outrage you might not hear often or have given much thought to... but it certainly is something that is genuine. Veteran's that got so fired-up when their local posts started handing out little American flags that turned out to be made in China...or (former) waiter/waitresses that see fellow customers leaving no tips know of what I speak... sometimes you have to be closer to the situation to fully empathize with strong reactions it can provoke.
Credit is money that actually belongs to someone else. You have an obligation to pay it back as per the agreed to terms. Anything short of that is stealing. If they are now under court order to pay it all back, then if the order is fully complied with it is now just a case of denying the creditor the use of his property for an extended period of time (still, not a very nice thing in my book). Call me wacky, or say I am overly Lawfully alligned, but I feel fully justified my reactions.
If Con's margins are so thin that its organizors make or lose money nearly randomly from year to year then they should get out of the business. With advertising and exhibitors likely pulling back in these less than rosey economic times, now is not the time for a roll the dice and hope for a profit. If you can manage a profit in these leaner times, then there should be no reason why you cannot continue to run in the black when the economy improves.
If this year is not only supposed to yeild a profit but needs to amass profit enough to payoff past debt as well, then things are no looking so good. I wish GC luck, and hope they can pull it off. They certainly would have to have had major changes to go from losses during previous boom years to making profits during a lean year. Let's see if they can do it.
GenCon may have been a major client, although that is surely debatable, but they were surely not one of only four, but one of around 40-50.
Convention centers rent out not just 4 weekends a year, but as many as they can, along with as many other days as they can.
There are many events that use convention centers that make GenCon, large as it seems to be, look like a penny ante operation. Consider the Consumer Electronics Show, held twice a year in Chicago and Las Vegas. Neither city's major convention facility is actually large enough for the CES to keep everything in a single building.
Really, yes, there were probably some legal expenses, but the major creditors to GenCon almost certainly were fairly large corporations themselves, so they probably already had lawyers on retainer to handle things like this for minimal additional expense.
Same way large companies have a technical support group to handle computer problems. Sometimes you pay the techs to sit there, but other times they are busier than bees.
So, IMO, I think you are overreacting to the whole bankruptcy thing, really. Those companies involved almost certainly have more than enough float of their own not to suffer from financial consequences from a single company with cash flow issues.
If this year is not only supposed to yeild a profit but needs to amass profit enough to payoff past debt as well, then things are no looking so good. I wish GC luck, and hope they can pull it off. They certainly would have to have had major changes to go from losses during previous boom years to making profits during a lean year. Let's see if they can do it.
They already showed a profit starting last year if I'm reading things correctly. This *has* come about with major changes, includeing the discontinuations of "other shows". GenCon SoCal was dropped a few years ago due to poor attendance, and despite a large fan turnout for Star Wars Celebration, many of their financial issues stemmed from those shows as well.
Accordingly, that show has also ceased to exist. For the time being it appears that GenCon Indy is the only show they really run themselves, and then the lend some assistance (and a name) to GenCon Europe, but I don't believe they directly run that show themselves.
There are also reports of them streaminling their internal operations, including their ticket printing/ordering system.
Ultimately? It seems GenCon LLC was simply trying to be a large provider of "geek cons" and found (the hard way) that this plan wasn't going to work. So now they're back down to their core business, and being happy with what that provides.
GenCon SoCal was dropped a few years ago due to poor attendance, and despite a large fan turnout for Star Wars Celebration, many of their financial issues stemmed from those shows as well.
My understanding of the sitution is undoubtedly not perfect, but what I read back when GenCon originally filed for bankruptcy is that the bankruptcy was the direct result of GenCon running the last Star Wars Celebration con for Lucasfilm (as I understand it, that was the only SWC that GenCon was involved in).
They had apparently felt that, having set up the infrastructure for running a "geek con", that they'd try to create an economy of scale by using that infrastructure to run a number of conventions. It sounds like, in the case of SWC, their expenses outstripped their revenue.
My understanding of the sitution is undoubtedly not perfect, but what I read back when GenCon originally filed for bankruptcy is that the bankruptcy was the direct result of GenCon running the last Star Wars Celebration con for Lucasfilm (as I understand it, that was the only SWC that GenCon was involved in).
They had apparently felt that, having set up the infrastructure for running a "geek con", that they'd try to create an economy of scale by using that infrastructure to run a number of conventions. It sounds like, in the case of SWC, their expenses outstripped their revenue.
That gels pretty well with what I heard as well.
Hence, them refocusing on "just GenCon" seems to be a good move for the bottom line.
I can't wait for Gen Con this year and don't expect it to be any less the "Mecca" for gamers