Does anyone know what the DM rewards, expected to be sent-out in August(?), will be?
I'm actually not sure a change is needed. If you can no longer sanction a specific LFR adventure for private play the old way through the RPGA "Event Sanctioning" process, one could always just sanction some generic private home play event and report it for DM rewards credit.
I find it kind of sad that the only way to earn RPGA Rewards at this point is via reporting generic homegames. With LFR off the grid, WWD&D Gamedays leaving it at "you get to keep the adventure", and Encounters shipping me a second and third set of condition cards for 6 months work, it seems they're more interested in paying for standees than in any kind of interesting player or DM support these days and more interested in selling their events than in selling the idea of an association of roleplayers.
You earn reward points for GMing LFR, WWDDGD, and Encounters as well as generic home games. Now some or all of that might change in the future - certainly the signs of yet another shift in the way the reward program works are beginning to show - but at the moment you can earn your rewards just from Encounters, for instance.
I've never seen anyhitng official from him or anyhone else saying that this policy has changed and that they now double-reward for such events.
I agree that a) if LFR is no longer played at sanctioned WPN/RPGA events you won't earn reward points for running it and b) it looks as if there's some plan to change the rewards programme anyway but at the moment it looks like you get a point for every session you report through the WPN system, no matter what type of event it is.
If all that happens with LFR is that adventures become available outside the WPN system, you may still be able to create an event and report it if you want a GM Reward point. You may have to call the session Home Campaign (Forgotten Realms). It may be that D&D Private Play disappears altogether. It may be that the Home Campaign option disappears altogether removing any GM reward from LFR. But these are all speculation at the moment; the current system seems to be 'GM five reported sessions in a six-month period and get a reward'.
A lot of new folks got rewards due to D&D Encounters this time around.
There are changes coming soon to the program. When you get your rewards letter (pretty soon), it will discuss some of these changes.
DM reward is... interesting. Looks like the Gray Hag Gencon Ravenloft board game promo?
Weird, I must be one of the first to get my DM reward letter.
DM reward is... interesting. Looks like the Gray Hag Gencon Ravenloft board game promo?
Does it say Promo #1 in the bottom right corner?
Does it come with a mini?
Does it say Promo #1 in the bottom right corner?
Does it come with a mini?
Yes, it does say Promo #1 in the lower right corner. No mini- just the card and letter in an envelope. Did the Ravenloft boardgame have a hag in it?
Does it say Promo #1 in the bottom right corner?
Does it come with a mini?
Yes, it does say Promo #1 in the lower right corner. No mini- just the card and letter in an envelope. Did the Ravenloft boardgame have a hag in it?
There is a hag mini in the game. The hag stats in the game are for a boss monster; the monster card is for a standard monster.
The letter includes a section on DM Rewards Changes. Encounters and Gameday DM Rewards will be included in the kit from now on. Private play no longer counts for DM Rewards [confirmation]. Public play still counts; the way rewards work for it is changing, but they haven't decided how they're changing them yet. Stay tuned on the website for more details.
Firstly, I appreciate that you've continued to reward DMs, don't get me wrong. For me, the problem is that I'm not getting rewards that I value as something useful as either a DM or as a player, for use when I'm not DMing. While you clearly put a lot of thought into it, neither the dark sun card box nor the gray hag promo help me at all with playing or running actual D&D and the condition cards are kind of nice, but also an unnecessary peripheral and something that I received over and over in Encounters as well. The adventures each spring have certainly been nice, but for someone who DMs only homegames as a break when I'm not busy DMing RPGA events or LFR, they are of little use. Likewise when it comes to the kits, I would rather print a pdf adventure with no art and get something more useful to me than have a high-quality adventure that I'll never run again. The exception for me is the ship tiles, which were very nice and useful, though I suspect only because I happened to run a naval combat shortly after receiving them. I say for me, because clearly there are a variety of DMs that do things very differently, and care about very different things. I'm certain there are tons of people that run the adventures regularly, for instance.
The best thing I can think of that I would like and that would be useful to as many people as possible (if not everyone) is a D&D Coupon good for $x off any D&D product at my FLGS, with the store being able to redeem the coupons through you, like a grocery store and coupons for a particular food item. This would help me, my friends I've had similar conversation with, and anyone else to get the particular product that would help them with their style of DMing or their style of playing when they are not DMing. Everyone is happier about what they get, the store sees increased sales, you guys see increased sales, everybody wins.
I think having coupons like that for both DM Rewards and in the kits would make DMing public events a lot more appealing to a wider range of the DMs I know, and would make RPGA events easier to run in my area. I live in a pretty busy gaming community: a couple dozen regular DMs, a couple cons each year, 50-100 regular RPG players depending on college timing. Back when you included minis in the Gameday kits, as an organizer, I had my choice of DMs. Since that stopped, I've had more and more trouble finding DMs as time goes on. It's a simple matter of the work and time involved in versus the reward for that commitment, and I've had several comments to the effect that all they see themselves receiving is an adventure they'll no longer care about as soon as the event is over.
So to wrap up, speaking for myself and several of my local DMs, we ARE appreciative and we understand you have a limited budget, we would just rather see that budget go in directions that are more useful to more of us more of the time.
This way the people who run a lot of LFR games have the tiles you need to run futher adventures (because you know that a lot of authors will want to use those tiles - there are what..4-5? adventures now that use the ship tiles)
And because I had some tiles I decided to buy of the other tile packs aswell.
I would have loved to have the other rewards to be tiles aswell. I get the marketing aspect behind sending us some dark sun stuff as a promo, but I have no use for the box, some desert tiles would in my opinion have had the same effect to draw our attention towards Dark Sun.
And this new promo card thing for the Ravenloft game.. I get the cross promotion..but it's even less usefull for me then the Darksun box was. Still I recognize that it's a free extra we get so I'm not realy complaining about it..I just think it's a shame that it's not something we could actually use in running our games. Like some tiles, a mini or even dice
We don't matter to them like the Magic players and Coordinators, who really pay the bills.
I expect by this time next year, WPN will not support RPGA events, and the RPGA will exist in name only. I don't think this is entirely WotC's idea, however. I bet it is the suits at Hasbro who are demanding a bigger profit from what is essentially a bunch of advertsing interns (aka, those of us who run the events and promote the games).
For years now, I have struggled to make my home games conform to the 'requirements' of RPGA sanctioned play, both for the benefit of my players and myself, in the form of the swag.
Then they cut player rewards.
And now, with the August 'reward' (and I use that term very loosely) we have gotten a letter saying that there will be no more points or rewards for home play, only public events (aka 'Doing your damn advertising for you for less pay than an INTERN gets.') Now, instead of having to gather and report the data, we get the 'reward' in the Event Kits.
The second part, good idea. The first part, well, frankly, bite me. Really.
I've dealt with the system for 4 years, working hard to have a minimum table for reporting, and now they just decide that my home game matters not.
Well, guess what? Wizards just made it easier on me to formally decide to hand of the D&D WPN Events to the other guy I got on the system in the Dark Sun Encounters, and start spending the time demoing other games that I like even more for my FLGS like Savage Worlds and Call of Cthulhu. If I'm not getting real support and rewards anymore, I might as well ENJOY the games I am running as much as I can.
Should make it easier to run Eberron at home now, though. I no longer have to have 4 players in what is a non-combat and largely political game anyway.
Cheers!
I find it kind of sad that the only way to earn RPGA Rewards at this point is via reporting generic homegames. With LFR off the grid, WWD&D Gamedays leaving it at "you get to keep the adventure", and Encounters shipping me a second and third set of condition cards for 6 months work, it seems they're more interested in paying for standees than in any kind of interesting player or DM support these days and more interested in selling their events than in selling the idea of an association of roleplayers.
You earn reward points for GMing LFR, WWDDGD, and Encounters as well as generic home games. Now some or all of that might change in the future - certainly the signs of yet another shift in the way the reward program works are beginning to show - but at the moment you can earn your rewards just from Encounters, for instance.
Not according to the letter I just read. You get rewards now as part of the kits for Encounters and Gamedays, nothing else. Private play reward points are gone. Public play will be tracked but it didn't sound like you were going to get any rewards for DMing LFR or any other adventure at a storefront.
While this will probably increase the participation for DMs at the Encounters and Gamedays (something I have very little problem recruiting for), it does nothing to drive players into the store. I also forsee a further decrease in LFR offerings at my monthly meetups as more and more DMs move to their own games. :/
I hope I am wrong.
ps: I don't know how appropriate giving a rare card for a boardgame will be to many as a thank you for DMing D&D games... it's kind of like bringing a baby shower gift to a wedding. whlie I might have a kid (buy the boardgame) in the future, I sure wasn't thinking about it yet and would have much preferred that toaster oven
There are changes coming soon to the program. When you get your rewards letter (pretty soon), it will discuss some of these changes.
Now that the letter's apparently out, can I get a synopsis of the changes? It would be nice if those of us who didn't get a rewards mailing for whatever reason could still know what's going on.
What I (as a organizer) am having trouble with is getting people to come to events, at least lately. Perhaps everyone is burned out on Dark Sun with encounters or something, but I had a really low turnout, like half of what I usually get for gamedays, with the same advertising.
My wife suggested that since it's summer, perhaps many were on vacation. I hope she is right and Red Box gets the numbers back up. I am going to probably do something to bring folks in to the event, like a raffle for a free copy of the red box as a player reward. It would be swell if we could have something better than the pregen character sheet to hand out.
I haven't received my letter yet, but after reading that wizards custhelp site linked to above, it seems that there is no longer any reason to be a part of the DM rewards program if you only run home games. Does that about sum it up?
That is the way the letter reads, which is of course disappointing. While I have mentioned in other posts I know its free incentive and cost WotC money and I understand it needing a change, there are far better less costly rewards that they could offer (even free ones such as discounts on products as others have mentioned) that could be the alternative to just axing it completely.
Not everyone can take time away from their families or have a game store close enough to participate, but it is what it is and we forge on.
What are we supposed to do with itCall me a cynic, but I can't help but wonder if they didn't have a couple cases of the cards left from GenCon and figured it was a convenient way of getting rid of them."A pack of ongoing damage cards (2 packs) for the DMs. This pack of cards is the DM reward for this season."
My two cents:
I don't DM for the rewards; I respect that they're freebies and I've always appreciated the effort and cost WotC put into sending us things. So thank you, most sincerely. Likewise, I'm OK with changing the program to focus on the successful Encounters program. It makes sense and it doesn't surprise me at all, speaking as an LFR DM.
Now the bitchy part:
Please don't send me a card with a note claiming it's a custom reward, especially if it's a promo piece which is useless to me unless I buy the board game. I would have really just rather have gotten a letter apologizing for no DM reward. You've given me two modules, one of which was good and one of which was awesome; a bunch of cool tiles; and a pretty box. I would be OK with "missing out" on another free reward.
Claiming the Gray Hag is a custom reward, when it's the same thing you gave out at Gencon? Ow.
My two cents:
I don't DM for the rewards; I respect that they're freebies and I've always appreciated the effort and cost WotC put into sending us things. So thank you, most sincerely. Likewise, I'm OK with changing the program to focus on the successful Encounters program. It makes sense and it doesn't surprise me at all, speaking as an LFR DM.
Now the bitchy part:
Please don't send me a card with a note claiming it's a custom reward, especially if it's a promo piece which is useless to me unless I buy the board game. I would have really just rather have gotten a letter apologizing for no DM reward. You've given me two modules, one of which was good and one of which was awesome; a bunch of cool tiles; and a pretty box. I would be OK with "missing out" on another free reward.
Claiming the Gray Hag is a custom reward, when it's the same thing you gave out at Gencon? Ow.
But hey, now you have two!
But hey, now you have two!
+1 laugh point. ;)
There were the Haves and the Have-Nots, sure, but the Have-Nots were logical enough to understand that if they wanted to have, they only had to play or DM more, or trade with someone who DMed a lot, for instance.
That's one of the main reasons I started DMing LFR at launch instead of a home game: to be a Have from the beginning this time around. Then the big delay in summer/fall of 08 happened and I was miffed. Then player rewards were removed and I was miffed, then the PDFs started and I was miffed, then the rewards got crappier, con support was gone for a while, rewards cards got too prevalent with the PDFs so they got nerfed in LFR, the rewards cards have never been openly supported at non-LFR 4e Events, Encounters brought the return of "special" rewards cards, and now home play doesn't count for anything, I'm not getting much of anything I care about in return for my time and energy DMing adventures I don't particularly want to DM.
It seems like all of these problems would have never happened and I'd be perfectly happy if they'd kept up with Rewards cards, for Players & DM Rewards both, removed the minis from rewards to lower their costs, never did the PDFs (or took them away and outlawed printed/copied cards now) and let players use the cards in ANY public event, with perhaps special rules for how exactly they're used in each type of event.
To me, it seems like they're adding incentive for players to come play special events at stores, and that's working, but they're also taking incentive away from DMs to do anything other than to run a home game exactly how they like. I don't think they see what's coming if they suddenly have a huge player population at every store and no DMs.
I don't personally know anybody that only DMs. I'm sure they're out there, but I would suspect it's a very small percentage. I don't mean incentivize us to DM with stuff to DM with, I mean incentivize us with stuff we can use when we're not DMing. Then we're more involved, more of the time, on all fronts.
WotC gives me plenty of incentives come DDXP & GenCon time in the form of a paid hotel room and a gigantic stack of books that I don't have to pay for. Plus, it's friggin' awesome to have a group from a year - or more! - past come running across the huge expanse that is Sagamore Ballroom in order to strongly request that I run an adventure for them before the end of the show ;)
On topic, I'm a bit disappointed in the decision to include a reward for a product that really has nothing to do with the game we're being rewarded for. I understand that it's a marketing decision; a plead to the DMs to pick up a new boardgame for their players. I am not complaining about it, but rather wanted to voice my opinion that I'd really have preferred some new tiles or a DM-only "save 20% on a D&D rulebook" coupon or something. Heck, maybe an online inventory clearance sale for DMs only through the WotC website
Game on!
I just-- I'm kind of increasingly getting to the point where I no longer care about the WotC message and event programming and am not interested in going out of my way and spending my money and time helping them for little reward, including fun. And I don't find DMing Encounters anywhere near as fun as DMing a home game or even LFR.
The Reward this season is absurd based on the criteria of what the DM Reward program is supposed to be. Don't give me the hoohah of it having to be low cost either, this is part of the marketing budget (or should be) the DMs are your window to a live community of players.
LFR is the reason many people subscribe to DDI, it should be getting more support, not less. I think the changes are for the large part dumb, and further evidence that the RPGA is irrelevant to WoTC and Hasbro. Honestly they should offer the D&D license up for sale to Paizo or Goodman and have it be done.
I will still be hosting and running LFR games, but I'm not going to count on Wizards for support, they are doing piss poor in marketing their product to their most rabid/loyal fanbase. *Thumbs up* Good job!
My two cents:
I don't DM for the rewards; I respect that they're freebies and I've always appreciated the effort and cost WotC put into sending us things. So thank you, most sincerely. Likewise, I'm OK with changing the program to focus on the successful Encounters program. It makes sense and it doesn't surprise me at all, speaking as an LFR DM.
Now the bitchy part:
Please don't send me a card with a note claiming it's a custom reward, especially if it's a promo piece which is useless to me unless I buy the board game. I would have really just rather have gotten a letter apologizing for no DM reward. You've given me two modules, one of which was good and one of which was awesome; a bunch of cool tiles; and a pretty box. I would be OK with "missing out" on another free reward.
Claiming the Gray Hag is a custom reward, when it's the same thing you gave out at Gencon? Ow.
I am afraid that I have to agree.
I coordinate Game Days, Encounters and LFR at 3 Conventions a year... and while I never try to complain about anything free.... a DM Reward that is for some other game altogether???
I hope they will be worth something on eBay as I have less than zero interest in the Ravenloft boardgame/RPG.
LFR is the reason many people subscribe to DDI
Many =/= most.
I think you might be surprised at how *few* D&D players (or DDI subscribers, for that matter) are involved in LFR, or have even *heard* of it. Based on numbers I've seen in the past about levels of RPGA play, I'm pretty confident that active RPGA players, worldwide, are in the tens of thousands. That's going to be a pretty small fraction of the total D&D player universe.
5000*10*12=600k
Thats easy money, and given what little they were paying the authors for the RPGA, and the lack of printing costs on Dunegon and Dragon magazines, they are making a killing. They can afford one staffer to even read and cannonize the adventures, not to mention the cross promotion of novels, computer games and other revenue opportunities?
I know the Globals will do a great job, but if WoTC pulling back from the RPGA doesn't concern the player base, then we're in trouble...and so are they.$$
but I do see that most RPGA players are indeed on DDI.
Not that I'm trying to be argumentative...but I have to ask, where do you see this? Among the RPGA players you know? Among the RPGA players here on the WotC Community boards? Both of those are small, and not necessarily representative, samples.
One of the things I've learned is that while "me and all my friends" may feel like a big group, and must be representative of the broader gaming community...odds are that it's not.
You might note I'm also lacking the DDI icon right now, but that's a temp. thing, will be getting back to the program in a couple months.
LFR is the reason many people subscribe to DDI
Many =/= most.
I think you might be surprised at how *few* D&D players (or DDI subscribers, for that matter) are involved in LFR, or have even *heard* of it. *SNIP*
I would agree. There are many players that do not play LFR and depending on what happens with the changes that could change even more. I had two brand new groups of players start yesterday, all either new to D&D or having not played it since 2nd or early 3.0. If I had the redbox I might have let them use it. I am not sure I will, I just don't feel like taking a step back myself and eventually if everyone else played the current system new players should be able to pick it up as well without needing essentials. I realize this is not all on topic but I look at it this way. The card simply made me laugh. I would have been happy with a letter that simply said, "Thank you for your work." In fact, if money were an issue send it to me here or in an email and save the printing and stamp. I have every hard cover book (no soft covers as I have not seen much worthwhile there) so if things change too much I can still play. I may question my DDI subscription if things change too much but I will hold my breathe to see what happens over the next number of months.
As a side note for Greg - I am not sure what will happen with future rewards but here is something simple to consider. We probably have plenty of people willing to volunteer a bit of time, such as yourself, and have skills in cartography. Have someone make a bunch of simple maps say 24x24 or whatever that an be set to 1" squares and have them saved as a .pdf. Then you can email them at little cost and let us print them out if we find them useful. At least it is a resource and potentially not much in terms of cost, you may simply need to somehow get updated emails etc.
Thanks for the comments folks. I really appreciate the feedback.
We're going to be talking a lot in the next few months about the types of rewards we can offer DMs (and players) outside of the program play kits. I know that with the addition of other component enhancements to the D&D game in the coming months, we'll have more potential options.
Believe me, if I could give all of you a pony or a Camaro (one per DM please - quantities are limited), I totally would do that. I know how hard you work to make your games fun for everyone involved. And we're still going to try to find more ways to show our appreciation.
Game Days are going to start to see more promo materials in the near future - takeaways for players and DMs. In addition, if you're running LFR games in the stores or at cons, we're investigating ways to deliver promos to you as well.
As soon as I can tell you more about it, I will!
As a DM who runs only home games, I am sad to see home games excluded from the Rewards program. My schedule won't allow me to commit to encounters, and when I can attend a game day or a convention, I like to sit on the other side of the screen. Although I am certain that nobody at Wizards would put it in these terms, removing home games from the Rewards program sends the message that home games don't really matter. Yet I'd wager that there are a lot more people playing home games than Encounters and such.
It would be nice to hear more about the reasoning behind these changes.
It would be nice to hear more about the reasoning behind these changes.
I'm obviously not Chris, but I've seen this topic debated on this board repeatedly over the past decade.
In the past, I've heard (on this board) that the RPGA's point of view was that public play was considerably more likely to be bringing in new players than home play, which tends to be more insular and is more likely to consist of the same players, week in and week out. In most cases, private play groups are just that -- private. If someone wants to learn how to play D&D, public play events are generally going to be the easiest way for that person to do so.
While the RPGA certainly exists to encourage overall play of D&D, bringing those new players into the hobby seems to be particularly important.
Now, certainly, some home games will be bringing in new players (even, in some cases, those who are totally new to the hobby). Nonetheless, the RPGA has seemed to feel that it's the public play which they really want to encourage, as that's where the likelihood of bringing in truly new players seems to be the highest.
And, finally, if the RPGA is operating under a limited budget (which I do not know for a fact, I'm just hypothesizing), and lacks sufficient resources to reward *every* DM, then they're going to reward those who are most likely to be recruiting new people to the hobby.
I'm glad to hear that you're still examining other options for DM Rewards. Please don't write off home play quite yet - perhaps expand it to require 15 points instead of 5? That might give more incentive to play at a store/ convention/ etc as opposed to playing at home, without directly discounting the effect that home players have on the hobby.
Another suggestion: dice! I love my DDM dice from GenCon a few years back and would love to see further sets... maybe with LFR faction symbols in place of the 20 or something? Even sending a basic d20 instead of an entire set would be sorta cool.
Our rewards should always tie into the hobby we're promoting, after all. I love showing my new swag to my players and saying, "Hey, see what you get for DMing? All these cool tools and enhancements for the game we're already playing!"
Thanks for staying engaged in the discussion, Chris.
As a DM who runs only home games, I am sad to see home games excluded from the Rewards program. My schedule won't allow me to commit to encounters, and when I can attend a game day or a convention, I like to sit on the other side of the screen. Although I am certain that nobody at Wizards would put it in these terms, removing home games from the Rewards program sends the message that home games don't really matter. Yet I'd wager that there are a lot more people playing home games than Encounters and such.
It would be nice to hear more about the reasoning behind these changes.
Great way to put it Chris. I too was sad to see emphasis shift away from the home setting where D&D rose to popularity and to sanctioned events at stores or cons. I just checked and the only way I can do an Encounters night is to take off work 2 hours early and drive 110 miles to an event. If that was a Saturday, it would be very different and perhaps my whole group (all over 40 now) could make it a regular event.
I too also like to play when at cons (although I rarely do now as I am sucker for organizers who plead and beg!).
I understand the marketing strategy to move it to stores where those experiencing the games can immediately make purchases and it serves to re-empahsize the FLGS (which should be put on an endangered list somewhere). Other companies in the gaming world have tried to push this before...GW anyone?...I hope it serves the D&D line well.
I suppose that the private play groups are really not that good about bringing in new players and the stores seem like fertile ground.....although my group of those 40 year olds who don't have the time for Encounters events....all now have their pre-teen kids in our adult group and we are almost at the point of having to have 2 groups.
Thanks for making your post Chris (oh and love your website too!)
Thanks for the comments folks. I really appreciate the feedback.
We're going to be talking a lot in the next few months about the types of rewards we can offer DMs (and players) outside of the program play kits. I know that with the addition of other component enhancements to the D&D game in the coming months, we'll have more potential options.
Believe me, if I could give all of you a pony or a Camaro (one per DM please - quantities are limited), I totally would do that. I know how hard you work to make your games fun for everyone involved. And we're still going to try to find more ways to show our appreciation.
Game Days are going to start to see more promo materials in the near future - takeaways for players and DMs. In addition, if you're running LFR games in the stores or at cons, we're investigating ways to deliver promos to you as well.
As soon as I can tell you more about it, I will!
Instead of the pony or camero (both cool mind you)
how about a minature short hair house yak?
They go well in inner city and rural areas....except the occasional smell.
I look forward to hearing what you have planned.
Edit: Can I have a cherry red mustang, with the sport package
I'm in my mid-30's, father of an almost 5-year-old and a 5-month-old, and married to a non-gamer. Those all combine to make my available time for any kind of gaming scarce. More or less, that means that I run the Game Day events and occasionally got to play LFR.
Tangent:
Notice the past tense.... a key player in the local LFR group decided to bail on the edition after the last set of Rules Updates. His point has been "I don't care what the rules are as long as I know what they are," and he feels that it's now impossible to predictably design for a concept. With his departure, the LFR group can't reliably make a table.
/Tangent
Although the tokens have been useful, my almost-5-year-old absolutely LOVES the minis I got from the DMG2 Game Day, and I've since acquired a few for him second-hand. (Some of which he got with his own savings.) I've enjoyed being able to read through the adventures I've acquired from running things, but don't feel that they are sufficient reward in and of themselves, simply because the Game Day adventures can't often be easily used outside that context. The Dark Sun adventure appears to be an exception, as you could start with Bloodsand Arena, run the adventure from this month's Dungeon, and then go to Lost Cistern, and build a tier from there.
I like the idea of a coupon for D&D product/accessory, or for custom dice. I might also suggest that anybody who acquires more than X reward points in a year receive a certificate for a free DDI subscription of some period, where X is some sufficiently large number. (The number floating through my head is 75 or so -- looking at something significantly in excess of one game a week.)
If the process is going to continue to be tokens for Game Day events, then I would like to request that the tokens be adventure-specific -- if an adventure has a bunch of elves, make the tokens elves, etc.
Mr. Tulach, I respect that you've got the challenge of making a bunch of incompatible camps happy. However, the general thought of "give us things we can use on both sides of the screen" seems to be a good idea.
Thanks for the comments folks. I really appreciate the feedback.
We're going to be talking a lot in the next few months about the types of rewards we can offer DMs (and players) outside of the program play kits. I know that with the addition of other component enhancements to the D&D game in the coming months, we'll have more potential options.
My eariler rant aside, I have a quick idea for you that could keep using the points/reporting system in place. And it would be really easy to track and give out the rewards.
Every X points accumulated, earn a cupon code for one free month of DDI. No printing costs, no mailing, easy to give, and definatively useful.
And if you do want to stick with some kind of physical rewards, consider also GMs like me, who have many differet games and likes things that go with all of them. I started with RPGA for the minis/tiles/poster maps, because they work with any fantasy game (and a many non-fantasy games) that I might run, therefore giving me more utility out of the items. I'd clearly understand the need to cut the frequency of these rewards (or the points needed) becuase they do cost more, but those might draw more people.
Now, certainly, some home games will be bringing in new players (even, in some cases, those who are totally new to the hobby).
My home game this year brought in 3 new players, 2 completely new to the hobby. My store events brought in 12 so far. About 1/5th of my new players were for my home game. And this is a small town, Bible-belt kind of area. I imagine that larger cities and college towns might have an even closer ratio.
My home game this year brought in 3 new players, 2 completely new to the hobby. My store events brought in 12 so far. About 1/5th of my new players were for my home game. And this is a small town, Bible-belt kind of area. I imagine that larger cities and college towns might have an even closer ratio.
As I noted, some home groups surely do bring in significant numbers of new players; I simply don't think that that's the norm. However, I'm not as certain that your personal experience or "numbers" would be substantially different if you lived in a more urban or gamer-friendly area.
I live in suburban Chicago, and I'm probably more active in RPGs (both LFR and home games) than I really should be.
I DM in four different home campaigns, and play in three others, in addition to playing LFR. Across all of my home games (which total about 30 unique players), we've added a grand total of three new players (two of whom were new to gaming) in the past 5 years. That said, based on what I read on various gaming boards, I suspect that my home games have far less churn than many game groups (though, I still suspect that many, if not most, home groups do little to bring truly-new gamers into the hobby).On the other hand, I've been involved in a group which runs well-publicized, public LFR events every Monday evening at a game store on the north side of the city. While there's a core of guys who show up every week, there's also a constant influx of new players.
First I have to mention, just in case it was taken the wrong way, that my post was more about the type of reward. I don't care if we have a reward or not, yes I think it is great if we do, if it is something we can use. You are not going to please all of the people all of the time, we know that. I don't like ponys or Camaros (maybe a picture of Smokey and the Bandit [yes I know it was not a Camaro but you get the idea. There are a lot of things that can't be given out or would be difficult and although I have always liked the idea of things like discounts on items or DDI we are the base for that product. Giving us a discount hurts the bottom line so I won't complain. But doing something such as Buy $50 get $10 off or something is cheap probably cheaper than many advertising campaigns might be even if 2000 people take advantage. Things like the condition cards were nice but only 1 set does not help much. Mini's were fabulous but I can see the cost especially in mailing. The mods were nice too but maybe it would save money to do it as a PDF and your RPGA number is the means to download/print. I for one made some really nice initiative cards for my players. Not everyone uses 3x5 cards but some do and if you came up with 10 nice cards (enough for players and mobs of monsters) it might be useful to many people. Still to me the best thing you can do is simply say, "thank you." I know the letter said it but via a this card is a thank you.
CH-Chirs (sorry too many Chris' all of a sudden,) keep putting out your great product and you will get support from the community, it may not be as nice as from WoTC or RPGA but we are listening and appreciate your work. I used your store last week and will again this week. Keep it up!
In the past, I've heard (on this board) that the RPGA's point of view was that public play was considerably more likely to be bringing in new players than home play, which tends to be more insular and is more likely to consist of the same players, week in and week out. In most cases, private play groups are just that -- private. If someone wants to learn how to play D&D, public play events are generally going to be the easiest way for that person to do so.
This reasoning certainly makes sense (and, obviously, RPGA's budget can't possibly be unlimited
). On the other hand, home games keep people playing who otherwise might not, and I'd wager that players involved in long-term campaigns, which will either be home games or LFR, are the core of DDI subscribers and the best source of steady repeat purchases than are new customers.It's really not that big a deal to me personally—mostly, I'm just curious, and an information junkie. DM Rewards has no bearing on whether I run my home game, or how often … but it does bear on whether I report those activities to the RPGA. Nothing motivates me now to sanction and report my home games, which is fine (less paperwork for me) if WotC doesn't want to know.
And thanks to those of you who listen to the Icosahedrophilia podcast. Putting the recordings out has added a whole new dimension of fun to the experience.
And thanks to those of you who listen to the Icosahedrophilia podcast. Putting the recordings out has added a whole new dimension of fun to the experience.
Off topic: I just started listening to your podcast, very enjoyable. Send your thanks for a new listener to the Tome Show.
However, I also got a copy of the Tomb of Horrors reward that I already got as a reward for keeping my contact information current. Did everybody else get a 2nd copy as well?
No.
So keep the feedback coming.
As soon as I can tell you more about it, I will!
Thanks, Chris; I appreciate you taking the time to read and register the feedback. It is worth noting again that I have two free modules plus some cool tiles from this program and that is awfully nice.
Personally, I'm sad that home adventures will no longer count, as I just enrolled in this program a few months ago for the express purpose of counting my home games. I don't have time to DM anything else. However, I understand that we're just talking about bonus freebies and so I'm not that upset that this is going away.
I'm looking forward to running my players through the Tomb of Horrors freebie and I've pre-ordered Castle Ravenloft so I'll be able to use the reward that was just mailed.
I don't need 2 copies of Tomb of Horrors though, so if anybody wants my 2nd copy, PM me.
That's it. Simple. Simple, until you try to draw boxes around the demographic that maters and the best way to further the company's goals.
Here are some demographics:
- Experienced / old gamers
- New gamers
- Hardcore frequent gamers
- Casual players
- D&D gamers
- Board game gamers
- Living campaign gamers
- Home campaign gamers
- DMs
- Players
- Gamers that participate in stores
- Gamers that go to cons
- Gamers that play at home
- Adults
- Young
If you visited Sagamore Ballroom at Gen Con, you could look at the LFR tables and the Ravenloft or Intro (Red Boxed Set) tables and see very different demographics. If you go to D&D Encounters sessions you will see different demographics as compared to hardcore LFR gamers or large convention attendees. PAX is a different demographic than the largest convention in your area.
From a business perspective, you have to take limited budgets and look at which areas mater. The areas that mater should be the ones that will further the goals of the company, which are usually linked to profit.
It is also important to track the satisfaction of demographics and how their level of satisfaction changes in ways that impact the company goals. A small demographic can become sufficiently dissatisfied to cause big problems for the company.
When I look at the current landscape, it strikes me that focusing (whether rewards or marketing or DDI space, whatever) too narrowly on a particular demographic will eventually hurt the company. When the company focuses solely on LFR, it hurts the type of gamer that wanted LG. When the company focuses too much on D&D Encounters, it hurts LFR. If the company focuses too much on Essentials, core/old D&D is hurt. If the company focuses too much on board games, other areas will suffer.
This is because the demographics, even when small, can be vocal. I am blown away by how a few contentious issues and late mods have hurt the LFR demographic. I am very sure that some of the success of Encounters and some of the increase I see in gamers playing other non-D&D games in my area is linked to this. I suspect the changes at various times with rewards for LFR has created incorrect reporting of how much play has taken place. I suspect LFR reward changes have also hurt both play and DMing over time, but not as strongly as the other issues. I would not be surprised to find that big convention DMs are still judging big conventions (because of the very meaningful rewards) but not as willing to DM at local conventions to the same extent (because of the incredibly poor convention reward program recently put in place).
When I look at the six judges I work with for D&D Encounters, they are right now pretty tired. 15 weeks is a long series to judge, with a lot of responsibility. Even with the relatively low amount of effort, I see burnout. The store will replace them, but now a 20-week season comes? I think rewards need to really increase. Right now Encounters rewards players with reward cards and renown, that to be honest, are not incredibly strong... but strong enough to be an incentive to play over DMing. A copy of the mod right now is strongest as a reward because of E-Bay prices, but not for what is actually supposed to be the reward (DM rewards, drink cozie, condition cards). D&D Encounters DMs will need more rewards in the near future. Myself? I am eyeing my Dark Sun campaign and thinking I need to concentrate on that over Encounters or LFR.
Gaming kit rewards also come with issues. What happens when your DM changes partway through that season? What happens in a 20-week season when you end up with three DMs for one table? It isn't unreasonable to expect a DM to step down after 10 weeks or so.
For LFR, the new rules are pretty devastating, in my opinion. This was one of my big concerns when I heard about the changes away from WotC's management. I really believe living campaign is important for WotC's future. While the company should absolutely attract new players and casual players, it also needs to cater to experienced hardcore frequent gamers. They are the most vocal and also the ones that are in the best position to bring new players into the game.
Rewards should really encourage that behavior. What if DMs received an extra "point" every time they sign a new DCI card? What if they gained extra points for running a different type of game (say, running a board game and LFR and a home game in the same month)? I think we really want to encourage that kind of behavior.
LFR should really be a point of emphasis for WotC. It is vital to its goals, I am sure of it. Look at all those Paizo players and tell me WotC should not have done more to retain those LG 3E players! We should still want to bring them in and we sure don't want to lose LFR players to them or any other living campaign. But if I look at one of the area gaming stores... their Warhorn site used to show LFR every day of the week. Now there are a couple of slots and just as many living Shadowrun games. As this has changed, the number of tables (and the number of new players) has dropped. And those LFR judges have started up 4E home campaigns, want to try Eclipse Phase, want to play Legend of the Five Rings. Look, I love playing all the games I just mentioned, but I also want D&D to be king. LFR gamers need to be retained.
In terms of rewards. Gamers love stuff they can use in their games. Minis, tiles, templates, cool stuff like that. Condition Cards were good, they just weren't good repeated many times. Ship Tiles and mods have been fantastic. Money off DDI or product in stores always sounds great.
I'll close with this. I try to speak my mind but please understand I do so knowing I know very little and that I greatly respect those in charge. This is a tough job. When I look at what Chris Tulach has done... this is a much smarter WotC and he has helped implement some fantastic programs with what is surely a tight operating budget. The history of gaming companies is a disastrously bleak one, filled with bankruptcy (including TSR). The layoffs suggest WotC is not profitable, or at best not comfortably so. I am thankful for any reward, no mater what it may be. It is better than the reward any other gaming company provides.... none of them provide any.
I would not be surprised to find that big convention DMs are still judging big conventions (because of the very meaningful rewards) but not as willing to DM at local conventions to the same extent (because of the incredibly poor convention reward program recently put in place).
When I look at the six judges I work with for D&D Encounters, they are right now pretty tired. 15 weeks is a long series to judge, with a lot of responsibility. Even with the relatively low amount of effort, I see burnout. The store will replace them, but now a 20-week season comes? I think rewards need to really increase. Right now Encounters rewards players with reward cards and renown, that to be honest, are not incredibly strong... but strong enough to be an incentive to play over DMing. A copy of the mod right now is strongest as a reward because of E-Bay prices, but not for what is actually supposed to be the reward (DM rewards, drink cozie, condition cards). D&D Encounters DMs will need more rewards in the near future. Myself? I am eyeing my Dark Sun campaign and thinking I need to concentrate on that over Encounters or LFR.
Alpha - your comments were sound as usually. I will simply add a couple of things. I am a big con judge and past local/event/gameday/store judge. I do very little in the store anymore. Part is likely because of the lack of [decent] swag. Some of my recent new players were amazed by the books from the cons and even the backpack from Winter Fantasy. My old store players loved coming because I would have rolloffs for all of the stuff (aside from a few monster mini's I kept for myself.) They walked away with mini's, maps, the adventure, pregens potentially. It was like a benefit for coming. Because there was a bit of incentive to come I leaned toward GM'ing when I could.
The second part I have highlighted in your note also relates to the first. Its an issue of time. I don't have time to play 2-3 times a week. Some of us have spouses/kids (some think their jobs are). My wife would never let me be gone that much even if it was only this activity that I did. Personally if it is an issue of no rewards (not that it makes a great deal of difference) but I would prefer to spend time hosting a game at my home so I can be closer to my family and have less travel time. I can offer much nicer surroundings and can play an actual campaign if I choose too even if it is somehow stringing unified LFR mods together. For me its a matter of enjoyment and convenience. I choose to play for 4 hours versus 1 and choose to do so with a group to make it feel more controlled. We always look for new players, I have been playing since 1980 and the other DM in the group since he got a copy of Chainmail and read how to modify it in the 70's. Even though I happen to be very near my 40th B-day I have an 8-month old. While my gaming means a great deal to me especially the memories, but it is nothing compared to by growing family. If there is anything I would hope to see changed would be that home games - those of us that have kept playing for years and those starting out - be included in tracking/rewards.
I liked the idea of points for signing up new people although I do see issues. I was lucky enough about 2 years ago to request and after a few months receive a couple of packets of DCI applications. I gave out 9 last week, we now have 2 groups of all new players joining us in a home game with 2 GM's meeting weekly. I would be hard pressed to believe that the enounters sessions and other sessions (aside from well advertised yet infrequent WWGDs and releases) at the store, in our area, would be hard pressed to see these numbers on a weekly basis. How did I do this...well I paid meetup, it cost me $40 to do advertising for WoTC. It was worth it to me but I don't know for how long. Maybe WoTC should consider spending the rewards money on more technology that gets gamers together, although I have not seen it, I hear ENworld is doing something just like this. I prefer not to give out my address but do it by zipcode with contact info and a "looking for a game"/"in a came"/"needing players" etc., the system seen on these forums has been poor at best.
While rewards are great for DM's, especially when they are useful, I would be equally happy if the reward to the DM were usable by the players to give them something for joining the game. The only thing I would hate to see would be a rehash of the last game day reward card. Usable only that day?!?! Talk about a waste of money, a nice card that was worthless 4 hours after you got there. Make it a reward that the players will talk about the next X times they play, talk about a reward that is also advertising.
Sorry, Chris does a great job, there just seem to be so many options that would be far more beneficial to WoTC and its players at the same time, if a similar program were continued. No I can't sell books as easily as a game store especially if the game is hosted there, but maybe there is something we can do through the program that encourages existing and new players and at the same time encourages them to purchase product.
I would like it if the Home LFR DMs still got some kind of reward, even if it's something like 10 points for a DM reward and you were to get 1 point for an LFR homegame, and 2 points for WPN/Public play. I know our local LFR group has bought many books and pulled in a lot of people that hadn't tried 4E before, or were lapsed D&D players. Many times we play at FLGS's.
I really liked getting the mini repaint rewards a few years back. I missed the boat tiles, which are really cool, for those that got them in our group. I hope the DM rewards program continues, because it is fun to get something for your DMing work.
Alpha, yet another good comment.
I have to say as I was typing my previous post I though of one thing that I did not type and was in the article you mentioned. ENTITLEMENT. There are very few words I dislike in our language and it is one of them. While I may come off sounding like we deserve something by all means I do not. I don't ever want to feel like I should get this or that or its owed to me. I do it because I enjoy it and I simply want to be able to keep doing so, how I go about it may be different and it may mean getting away from things I enjoy now but become limiting in the future. As I have said elsewhere. The only thing that really means anything to me from the standpoint of receiving something is a, "Thank you." especially from the players. Adding "I enjoyed it," makes it that much better. And maybe its a bit harsh but if your a player and can't say, "thank you" maybe you should play on a computer where no one cares either way.
Alpha's smart, as always.
I'll note one of the important differences for me between running LFR and running Encounters. When I run LFR, I can build new DMs who'll run LFR for me somewhere down the line. I don't really want to play Encounters a ton -- it's interesting, I can see playing one or two seasons, but ultimately the repetitiveness of level 1-4 encounters would wear me down.
So LFR has a built-in incentive for DMing in that regard.
Conversely, Encounters is designed for the store owner, not for the players. The store owner has more incentive to make Encounters work than he did to make LFR work, in general. This shows in the success of Encounters.
I.e., I'm not saying either's good or bad, but I figured it was worth noting the difference.
Here is what I am going through:
Encounters has essentially killed my home game. I have a wife and children who deserve my time, and since I now spend one evening out rolling dice, I don't spend every other Saturday around my dining room table. I was ready to take a break from DMing Encounters because it is a long season, until I saw it was Keep on the Borderlands, something I would have more interest in running. So I am once again, committing myself to 20 weeks. 20 weeks! My wife just about died. It does take dedication to run a good encounters game, I don't just show up and run it. I read it a few times, I pluck minis to use with it, I dig out dungeon tiles to use with it (so that I am not revealing the entire map). The prep work is at least 2, probably more, hours per week. I don't care much about rewards for this but it sure would be nice to have something to encourage other DMs. I am having trouble getting commitments from both DMs and players for season 3 due to it's length.
The recent changes to LFR pretty much killed it for me. I disagree with many of the changes made and see little point to running those stories versus running something else (e.g. our next meetup I am continuing my Slaying Stone game). I am not alone in this feeling I am sure. I am waiting to see what changes are made at the end of the year with LFR, perhaps if there is more purpose to running games and starting at level 1 I will revisit... but until then, no thanks.
I hear there is something else in the works. My sincere hope is that it's encounters-like, without restrictions on when you can run the sessions, and what you can bring into them. I really do like the format of Encounters, it makes for drop in play. Heck, I am considering running Season 1 again on a different night to see if I can't get some folks together to roll some dice. It would be an easier pill to swallow if I said to my wife that I was going to run games Sunday afternoon instead of loafing on the couch watching football.
LFR is the reason many people subscribe to DDI, it should be getting more support, not less.
I don't think that LFR is the reason for most subscriptions to DDI, but I do know that in my local gaming group (about 3 full tables, with waitlist, twice a week), there are very, very few people without DDI subscriptions. I'm sure most of those would allow their subscriptions to lapse sans LFR. So support can still be worth it.
The hag card is indeed a slap in the face. I haven't actually used any of the previous DM rewards, but I could (save several of the condition cards). The hag is like an advertisement for a product I have no interest in. Support for Game Days is probably the best use of the RPGA budget. I will always DM for some minis and a poster map. And of course these tie in directly with new products. Tokens, however, aren't really worth is--I'd rather gain XP for a real character than a pregen.
I don't know how many D&D players are involved in LFR. WotC/Hasbro probably has metrics on that. It's probably worth DM rewards worth something just to collect useful data--I really think WotC/Hasbro is dropping the ball by not using the opportunity to cheaply gather a ton of useful market statistics. They're one of the few gaming companies out there that aren't trying to leverage the internet for analytics--even board game companies do this now. But at any rate, some decent support for us could potentially be very profitable, especially for the low-overhead DDI subscriptions (which I'm sure are much more profitable per capita than books).
However, speaking from experience... I'm not sure how much rewards make a difference. My FLGS has players chip in $2 per game, and the DM gets the money in the form of a gift card. As a result, I DM a lot to feed my board game addiction, but we still have problems mustering tables due to lack of a DM. If people aren't willing to judge for $8-$12 per game, and in fact will pay $2 to play, rewards may not be meaningful. Maybe unique, unpurchasable stuff would make a difference, like if maybe DMs and only DMs could earn the player reward cards. But maybe not.
I'm guessing that WotC, or at least the D&D division, is treading water at this point. Not enough new players attracted to the game, too many old players alienated. Perhaps that's part of the reason Essentials has several throwbacks to earlier editions (which, IMO, are pointless for that purpose). Again, the metrics would be useful here. (Too bad collaboration with Paizo about getting data on Pathfinder is out of the question--it'd be darn useful.) Only the people who love D&D but aren't resistant to change are still here, and even many of them are upset with some of the changes.
D&D may not survive Essentials. There may be no 5th edition (though I hope there is--a real revision to the 4e rules could result in an awesome game). I do think that the drive to attract new players isn't having its intended effect--but again, that's an empirical question. But it seems like everything WotC does these days is alienate more players, and that has to change. They need to focus on things that are small enough that, even if players get upset, won't drive them away, but that will also draw more players in. A tricky balance--new players won't be exposed to small changes. If Essentials doesn't achieve this, there may not be another chance.
I'm guessing that WotC, or at least the D&D division, is treading water at this point. Not enough new players attracted to the game, too many old players alienated.
Even if 4E isn't selling the way that WotC might like (and I have no idea if this is true or not)...bear in mind that, even those "disappointing" sales are at an order of magnitude (if not several orders of magnitude) greater than what any other RPG sells.
Right now, large conventions are well supported (Dave C takes care of his DMs), play in stores is well supported (Encounters DMs are relatively well taken care of), and small conventions have... convention support kits, which are poorly designed from a perspective of rewarding the convention DMs. My small convention DMs ran games for two reasons - one, to help me out; two, because it gave them their five points for DM Rewards in one weekend. Swag was always terrible (because I lose money on the convention every year as it is), and the one major incentives for the DMs that also play - the Rewards Cards - are going to be invalid at the end of the year (although they're still included in the convention support kits). Where this is especially distressing is that large conventions and game stores are usually stop #2 for gamers in my area - the small convention is frequently where they are introduced to Organized Play.
In short, I don't mind that the point-based DM Reward system is going so much as it leaves my convention with no way to incentivize DMs beyond appealing to their basic human kindness (and, to be fair to them, they do have quite a bit of that). If the Convention Support Kits could be improved to include material that would be desirable to the convention DMs, that would greatly improve my opinion of the changes.
I'm guessing that WotC, or at least the D&D division, is treading water at this point. Not enough new players attracted to the game, too many old players alienated.
Even if 4E isn't selling the way that WotC might like (and I have no idea if this is true or not)...bear in mind that, even those "disappointing" sales are at an order of magnitude (if not several orders of magnitude) greater than what any other RPG sells.
That doesn't matter. If 4E wasn't selling enough and losing money and WotC/Hasbro decided that they weren't going to publish it anymore, it just doesn't matter in the least what other publishers are doing for numbers.
That old joke comes to mind: "Boss, what are we gonna do, we're losing money selling each ! Yeah, but we'll make it up on volume!"
I think everyone should read this post a few times.
I don't think there should be a DM Rewards program for private play at all, so I'm glad it is gone. WoTC really doesn't (and shouldn't in my opinion) have to do anything extra for those who choose to DM their games in their homes. I am a DM and yes, I took advantage of the DM rewards program--like welfare, unemployment, or any other handout if it is out there, why not use it? But, seriously, though I am grateful for all the cool stuff I used or sold on ebay, why should I get something extra for running games in my house? Isn't the fun of the game enough?
Yes, I appreciate the gesture of what the DM rewards system was originally designed for, and yes, I understand that it might have been an (poor) attempt to boost sales. If you have to bribe people with monster tokens or dungeon tiles in the shape of a boat to run the game in their homes, something is wrong with the game--or (more likely in this case) it is competing with things that are often more popular (can you say X-BOX, college football, or DVR's?).
Personally, I LOVE D&D. I will be our DM regardless of any stupid DM Rewards program. If a DM Rewards program exists I will try to take advantage of it, you bet. But that won't ever be the reason I DM a PRIVATE game, and I won't cry and whine about it not being there.
Now then. Conventions. This is a different animal. I have organized conventions, worked conventions, and participated in conventions. If WoTC wants to do something for those who promote their games in a public venue (where new players (read "customers") can potentially be gained), this is where it needs to focus (my opinion). Being able to give a "BIG BOX OF SWAG" to convention organizers to hand out to its DM as a thank you for their time is important. Why? Well, duh. Why spend the time DMing at the convention when you can, oh I don't know, GO TO THE CONVENTION!? But if WoTC offered a nice piece of SWAG for the convention organizer to hand out, it would be a nice thank you for those who need to be thanked--we DM's who offer up our time at conventions and encounters and such to promote and support D&D.
However, I don't like this point system stuff. I think the rewards should be more immediate. You run a game at a convention--BOOM you get a reward right there. You run three games at a convention--BOOM you get another reward. You run five? Another reward, etc and so forth. The convention organizer just hands them out right there on the spot. All this crap about sanctioning a game and then reporting it is kind of cumbersome and requires a bunch of IT support I'm sure--of course, you got some good data from it. Regardless, just beef up the support kits and let the organizers hand out the stuff right then and there. Instant rewards.
Yes, this has the potential for corruption--"hey let's hold half this back, sell it on ebay and not tell anybody" or "I like Barbie better than Ken so I'm going to give Barbie more SWAG than Ken". Well, that will be self critiqueing. Those convention organizers who choose to do this kind of stuff, will soon not have any DM's willing to run games for them (and I'm sure if word got back to WoTC of this kind of behavior, they wouldn't be too happy--afterall, I've seen your ban lists for MTG). All WoTC has to do is make the contents of it's "Convention Kits" public knowledge. The math will take care of itself (hmm...lets see, 20 pieces of SWAG...20 DM's but only 10 got SWAG...something doesn't add up).
Anyway, what do I know? Well, I know this: I'll be running my D&D games as scheduled whether or not I get DM Rewards points for them anymore. AND, I won't be crying and whining about it. But, I won't be sanctioning and reporting private events any longer either--why would I spend my time doing that now? There's nothing in it for me. What? So I can see how many games I've played? I can do that at home on the refrigerator calander. What? so WoTC can get free data? Yeah, right. I support WoTC by buying their products and occasionally running a public game (you bet, I would run more public games if I got something for it)--they shouldn't need anything else from me.
WoTC if you are listening, I'm glad you turned off private play DM rewards--it was a money sink and only hurt you. Why do I care if you are hurt financially? I happen to like 4th ed D&D very much and want to see it continue far into the future. BUT..I think it would pay you dividends if the DM's who run games at conventions get a little something. Maybe you have this in mind--maybe you don't. I'm sure you have a plan and you'll tell us what it is eventually.
For me this is all very simple--"Condition A"=I like your games and your company so I buy your stuff and play your games. "Condition B"=I don't like your games or your company so I don't play your games anymore or (most importantly to you) buy your stuff. For me "Condition A" doesn't ride on hand-outs. It rides on great content. And so far "Condition A" abides (I see no reason why it won't stay that way, 4th ed rocks).
If I sound elitist, yes, you're darn right I am--I'm the customer. MY opinion is the only thing that matters when it comes to spending MY money--and don't you dare forget it (I sure won't).
SO, in the meantime, keep cranking out good stuff--oh and let me know if you need any help. I've got LOTS of great ideas.. haha (bet you never heard that before).
Make mine 4th ed! You guys rock (for now at least). However, I reserve the right to change my mind at any time and without warning.
I think everyone should read this post a few times.
I don't think there should be a DM Rewards program for private play at all, so I'm glad it is gone. WoTC really doesn't (and shouldn't in my opinion) have to do anything extra for those who choose to DM their games in their homes. I am a DM and yes, I took advantage of the DM rewards program--like welfare, unemployment, or any other handout if it is out there, why not use it? But, seriously, though I am grateful for all the cool stuff I used or sold on ebay, why should I get something extra for running games in my house? Isn't the fun of the game enough?
Quoted from another thread:
Tangible rewards are the main reason my playgroup has stuck it out with 4th edition. I'm not saying 4th Edition is awful...but there are better systems out there; and the one thing (other than brand recognition) that seperated D&D from the others no longer exists.I can understand that there are considerable costs associated with printing and mailing modules, boxes and map tiles; which is what makes me wonder why they did away with Rewards cards which I assume can be printed and mailed as cheaply, if not cheaper than Magic player rewards.
I believe that, with the exception of the occassional "Games Days" (which can be treated like a small convention) there shoudn't be any in-store RPG gaming. Its time consuming, can require considerable space, and in-store RPG play doesn't generate the type of impulse income that in-store CCG gaming does. (ie players buying boosters in between games, etc.)
The RPGA (and to an extent the DCI/Magic Player Rewards) turned into a free rewards program specifically for the purpose of data mining. (You can get just about everyone's personal information if you offer to give them free stuff!) I would actually like to see the RPGA go back to being a paid program with incentives to both join and renew.
Dbeman, dude I think you've hit the nail on the head. Hey WoTC take note (if you even are reading this), I think this is a great idea the man has here. Go back to the old way of doing it.
1. Have all the convention/encounters support you wish for those guys who choose to enjoy the game in that fashion AND
2. Have a separate RGPA membership (complete with dues and perks) for those who choose to enjoy the game at home.
What would be REALLY cool is for WoTC to find a way to include RPGA membership along with their $76.00 DnD insider dues.
Do you think they'll listen to us, dbeman? I think they do listen, honestly. I'm sure they have some cunning plan in the works. We'll see how it pans out.
Boo-ya,
Dbeman, dude I think you've hit the nail on the head. Hey WoTC take note (if you even are reading this), I think this is a great idea the man has here. Go back to the old way of doing it.
1. Have all the convention/encounters support you wish for those guys who choose to enjoy the game in that fashion AND
2. Have a separate RGPA membership (complete with dues and perks) for those who choose to enjoy the game at home.
What would be REALLY cool is for WoTC to find a way to include RPGA membership along with their $76.00 DnD insider dues.
Do you think they'll listen to us, dbeman? I think they do listen, honestly. I'm sure they have some cunning plan in the works. We'll see how it pans out.
WotC's support programs are very much a vicious circle. They find a good way of doing something and then attempt to improve on it; inevitably screwing it up. Then they attempt to improve upon the improvements (hmmm...this wall is too red. Let's fix it by using more red paint!). This goes on for a few years before they return to what was working in the first place. Then they'll attempt to improve....well you get the point.
So yeah...we will eventually see membership dues reinstated. And it will work well...until they attempt to improve it.
I don't think there should be a DM Rewards program for private play at all, so I'm glad it is gone. WoTC really doesn't (and shouldn't in my opinion) have to do anything extra for those who choose to DM their games in their homes. I am a DM and yes, I took advantage of the DM rewards program--like welfare, unemployment, or any other handout if it is out there, why not use it? But, seriously, though I am grateful for all the cool stuff I used or sold on ebay, why should I get something extra for running games in my house? Isn't the fun of the game enough?
I completely disagree with this and I am kind of upset they have taken away my ability to receive rewards. While yes, the game is fun enough and I do it for the love of the game, I think we can all agree the DMing preparation is hard work and trying to get new people to try their hand as a DM is truly a pain. The little bone was a nice perk to put in my extra effort.
I am an assistant organizer of a local gaming group in the Tampa Bay area, but because I am not a permanent store event organizer or a member of a local store, I'm no longer eligible for rewards which does not seem right.
I have signed up many new players (most have either never had a DCI number or are completely new to D&D) with DCI numbers, ran numerous LFR sanctioned games that are considered "private" because they weren't at a store, but most have been held at our local meetup location.
None of these games should be considered private and disqualify me for rewards because they were open to anyone from the gaming group, which only requires you to sign up for our group on Meetup.com.
I am an assistant organizer of a local gaming group in the Tampa Bay area, but because I am not a permanent store event organizer or a member of a local store, I'm no longer eligible for rewards which does not seem right.
I have signed up many new players (most have either never had a DCI number or are completely new to D&D) with DCI numbers, ran numerous LFR sanctioned games that are considered "private" because they weren't at a store, but most have been held at our local meetup location.
None of these games should be considered private and disqualify me for rewards because they were open to anyone from the gaming group, which only requires you to sign up for our group on Meetup.com.
Note that games do not have to be run at retail stores to be listed as public and eligible to run the newest adventures. According to the description of the new reward system, there will be some form of reward for GMing public LFR adventures, so long as they are sanctioned and reported through the WPN system as Public Play. Note, too, that if you do that you will be able to send campaign consequences reports, according to the latest blog post.
WPN events must be held at a public location. To add a location to your WPN account, use the (oddly named) Join WPN forms here: www.wizards.com/Company/WPN/Join.aspx - there's an option to add locations. I believe that there is some manual checking of the information you enter before you can then sanction public events at that location, but so long as it is not a private home, and is somewhere which has an address which can be made public, you should be fine.
Now I don't think anyone's been told what the public LFR rewards will be - the rewards for Game Days, Encounters, and the new store-based program that starts next year will, apparently, be sent with the kits - but at least at the moment Wizards are saying that there will be something.
One final point: at present, while you can't run Encounters at non-store locations, you can run Worldwide D&D Game Days at any registered public location, should you want to.
You store store store store store store store store store store store store mentality is screwing things up for those of us who want to get involved and or be competitive. It's been stinking up this hobby for a long time now.A customers 2c.
In a perfect world, the awesomeness of the game would be reward enough. That said, it is surely a good idea to have rewards because (as you clearly demonstrate) people respond to them. I am pretty sure the pendulum will keep swinging and will change over the years.
For others that may be bringing in new players and happen to have a store in the area, you can bring your cards into a gaming store that runs Magic games and they can send them in for you. They usually make periodic shipments and likely won't mind including yours (especially if your players will visit sometimes).
It is a swinging pendulum. When LFR first started out the complaint was that stores were being completely left out of the picture and home play was king.
In a perfect world, the awesomeness of the game would be reward enough. That said, it is surely a good idea to have rewards because (as you clearly demonstrate) people respond to them. I am pretty sure the pendulum will keep swinging and will change over the years.
For others that may be bringing in new players and happen to have a store in the area, you can bring your cards into a gaming store that runs Magic games and they can send them in for you. They usually make periodic shipments and likely won't mind including yours (especially if your players will visit sometimes).
I find it interesting that my meetup has less LFR than it did before the changes to the campaign, and home play is now king. It's the exact opposite effect of what was desired (from my perspective at least according to your comment). Too many changes to the program seem to create friction and drive players away from the store or LFR entirely... I await January with baited breath.