Creating a Higher-Level RPGA Character - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Creating a Higher-Level RPGA Character

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
excelis
Feb 22, 2010 0:43:05
My current goup has a problem. Basically one of our group is only level 5 and the others are level 8 (or almost level 8). Due to the level brackets of the LFR modules the level 8's can no longer adventure with the level 5 and there are no other RPGA groups with which the the level 5 can adventure.

One option (which we all hate) would be for all of us to start level 1s and level them up to 5 (because the first bracket is 1-4). Then the original level 5 could join these new characters and level up to 8 (second braket is 5-7). Then all switch back to our originals and continue on. This would require months of leveling due to our schedules while all our main characters would sit unplayed. Not to mention the wasted work on these secondary characters because they would get little or no play after being used for leveling up the level 5.

It appears to me that CCG would allow the level 8s to roll up new legal RPGA characters of higher than level 1. If so then the level 8s can all roll up level 5s and save us all that wasted time and effort of getting new characters up to level 5 just to discard them after a few adventures with the original level 5. Here is the quote from CCG 1.95 that I refer too: "If you're creating a character higher than 1st level for a specific campaign (either RPGA program or a home game), simply follow the rules in the Dungeon Master's Guide page 143, in addition to those in the guide."

So can we roll up new legal RPGA characters of higher than level 1 in the above situation?
#2
bgibbons
Feb 22, 2010 1:04:34
So can we roll up new legal RPGA characters of higher than level 1 in the above situation?

No.

"All characters start at 1st level unless otherwise specified. Some RPGA programs might have characters starting at a higher level, in which case see “Creating a Higher-Level Character” below."

Some RPGA programs might in the future, but right now, the only game in town in LFR, which does not.

"Living Forgotten Realms characters are created using all the rules presented in the RPGA Character Creation Guide (and start at 1st level just like many characters)"

All LFR characters must start at level 1. You cannot roll up a new legal LFR character of higher level.

Your options are:
* Find another group, either nearby or online, in which that person can play to level up;
* Send him away for the weekend to a good-sized convention. A ten-slot convention can give you three levels in a weekend;
* Start brand new 1st level characters, play them up to 4th level, then play L4-7 modules to get that character up to 7 so that he can play L7-10 modules... and since this probably won't be the last time this happens, hold on to those characters, since you might need to do this again.

Yes, if you are a small-sized group and are interested in only playing one character each, this is a problem. It's going to happen again: consider that a 10th level PC and 11th level PC cannot ever adventure together, and in a group of six with rotating DMs, it's pretty unlikely you'll all end up crossing over to paragon at the same time.

The other option, if you are just interested in playing one character within your own group, is to simply decide that you're not playing LFR any more, but rather a home campaign using the LFR adventures for inspiration, in which case you can do anything you want, you just can't ever take those characters to an LFR event.
#3
wagnert
Feb 23, 2010 18:28:27 My group solved this problem by having multiple characters per level. We alternate between 2 or 3 level 1-4 characters till they hit level 5. We then start more level 1 characters. We also play the level 4-7 characters till we hit level 8. We usually play each adventure 2 or more times using a different character each time (as required). We get to try out multiple different types of characters and learn how to play each to fight well and complete other characters into a team. Admittedly, we usually get to play 2-3 games a week, but not everyone can make it more than once a week or two. Most of us have at least one Paragon level character. Almost all of us have at least 1, and usually more, 7-10 characters, 4-7 characters, and 1-4 characters. That way, if the normal cleric or wizard can't make it this session, someone else usually has a cleric or wizard character to fill the gap. If your group is 6 or 7 people (including the DM), you could play more regularly with a party of only 4 using alternate characters, and still have each player have a character able to play with the group at whatever level when you have six players plus a DM.
#4
RyndarLocke
Apr 12, 2010 9:05:16
So can we roll up new legal RPGA characters of higher than level 1 in the above situation?

No.

"All characters start at 1st level unless otherwise specified. Some RPGA programs might have characters starting at a higher level, in which case see “Creating a Higher-Level Character” below."

Some RPGA programs might in the future, but right now, the only game in town in LFR, which does not.

"Living Forgotten Realms characters are created using all the rules presented in the RPGA Character Creation Guide (and start at 1st level just like many characters)"

All LFR characters must start at level 1. You cannot roll up a new legal LFR character of higher level.

Your options are:
* Find another group, either nearby or online, in which that person can play to level up;
* Send him away for the weekend to a good-sized convention. A ten-slot convention can give you three levels in a weekend;
* Start brand new 1st level characters, play them up to 4th level, then play L4-7 modules to get that character up to 7 so that he can play L7-10 modules... and since this probably won't be the last time this happens, hold on to those characters, since you might need to do this again.

Yes, if you are a small-sized group and are interested in only playing one character each, this is a problem. It's going to happen again: consider that a 10th level PC and 11th level PC cannot ever adventure together, and in a group of six with rotating DMs, it's pretty unlikely you'll all end up crossing over to paragon at the same time.

The other option, if you are just interested in playing one character within your own group, is to simply decide that you're not playing LFR any more, but rather a home campaign using the LFR adventures for inspiration, in which case you can do anything you want, you just can't ever take those characters to an LFR event.

Do you use these characters in other games besides your own small RPGA group?

Are these RPGA games hosted at a public venue? If so you have to have some kind 1-4 table available for people without characters of x level to play.

#5
kenobi65
Apr 12, 2010 10:11:13
Are these RPGA games hosted at a public venue? If so you have to have some kind 1-4 table available for people without characters of x level to play.

I don't think "you have to" is accurate; there are no such rules in the RPGA requiring an event organizer to always have an offering for entry-level players. If you're playing in a public venue, and you have a reasonable expectation that you might have new players, then it's probably a good idea to have such an offering, but it's by no means mandatory.
#6
RyndarLocke
Apr 12, 2010 16:39:09
Are these RPGA games hosted at a public venue? If so you have to have some kind 1-4 table available for people without characters of x level to play.

I don't think "you have to" is accurate; there are no such rules in the RPGA requiring an event organizer to always have an offering for entry-level players. If you're playing in a public venue, and you have a reasonable expectation that you might have new players, then it's probably a good idea to have such an offering, but it's by no means mandatory.

Public RPGA games, according to the new Gateway rules can not turn away anyone wanting to play. So, you'd have to have a 1-4 table for people without character to be able to play.

I'm only stating this, because if they're doing homeplay private rpga gaming then they can and should ignore the module levels and just play.
#7
bgibbons
Apr 12, 2010 18:01:12
Public RPGA games, according to the new Gateway rules can not turn away anyone wanting to play. So, you'd have to have a 1-4 table for people without character to be able to play.

That's a rather aggressive reading of "This D&D event must be run at a public location and should be open to any players who wish to participate." Note the second one is 'should', not 'must'.

There are a wide variety of reasons you can turn away people wanting to play, with the most obvious ones that spring to mind being:
* The venue won't let them play there (e.g., it's a convention and they haven't bought a ticket);
* Your tables are already full; or
* They don't have a legal character for what you are offering.

There is no requirement to offer a L1-4 table at every public gameday. It's a good idea, sure, but the choice of what adventures to offer is completely up to the event organizer.
#8
RyndarLocke
Apr 12, 2010 18:17:43
Public RPGA games, according to the new Gateway rules can not turn away anyone wanting to play. So, you'd have to have a 1-4 table for people without character to be able to play.

That's a rather aggressive reading of "This D&D event must be run at a public location and should be open to any players who wish to participate." Note the second one is 'should', not 'must'.

There are a wide variety of reasons you can turn away people wanting to play, with the most obvious ones that spring to mind being:
* The venue won't let them play there (e.g., it's a convention and they haven't bought a ticket);
* Your tables are already full; or
* They don't have a legal character for what you are offering.

There is no requirement to offer a L1-4 table at every public gameday. It's a good idea, sure, but the choice of what adventures to offer is completely up to the event organizer.

It's not aggressive. It's just pure fairness. If you run a public RPGA event and then turn away anyone not playing a character of level x or higher you have lost the spirit of what the RPGA is and always has been.

"Hey we're a public RPGA event, but if you don't have a 7-10 character or you can't play. Ok so that's 4 people with level 10's, and you 2 new guys are sol find a new hobby."

EDIT: If you have a legit reason to not host a levl 1-4 game, (no GM's, you only 1-4 table is already full, or you're a private home game) that's fine. And, we don't know if this is private game or a sanctioned public event, so I can only speculate it's a public event or the GM would have just made the call to keep playing his private game despite levels.
#9
pedr
Apr 13, 2010 18:03:34 A clarification about the distinction (where one exists) between Private Play and WPN Public events, in case there is any confusion:

If you are playing Living Forgotten Realms in order to advance LFR characters then you must follow all the LFR rules including respecting the level bands. Whether the LFR adventure is run at a public WPN event or a private gathering ordered as 'Private Play' is irrelevant.

No-one is going to check whether you actually run your LFR adventures according to the rules, particularly if it is a private event. This means that if you want to use the LFR adventures outside the official LFR campaign, no-one will notice and no-one will stop you. It may (or may not) be slightly outside what WotC expect/hope will happen with those adventures, but there's no way anyone would notice.

If, however, you run an LFR adventure without following the rules, the characters playing the adventure cannot use the xp, gold, story awards, or anything else gained in that adventure in the LFR campaign. This means that if you ignore the level bands, or create 7th level characters to play a 7-10 adventure, or allow the players to play bugbears and kobolds, you're not actually playing the LFR campaign, even if you are using LFR adventures.

As far as 'turning away new players' goes, any public event which is advertised on the event calendar should list the adventures which have been ordered for that event. It's not 100% clear, of course, but if an event only offers paragon tier adventures, attendees should be on notice that the event requires experienced characters. Now if you use the new search engine on the WotC site I'll admit that this doesn't indicate the adventures, but it also doesn't indicate things like time of event, entry prices, etc, so anyone attending will have to contact the organiser in advance, at which point the organiser ought to be indicating whether there are any level bands which will not be catered for.

I'm afraid I don't have any other suggestions for the OP, except to encourage some online play, and to plan for this - as mentioned - because this situation will reoccur over the course of the campaign.
#10
Cavuste
Jul 18, 2010 21:52:37 Just out of curiosity, after reading the CCG 1.99, it seems that you DO have the option to create a character at lvl 1, 5, 8, or 11 at your leisure. Obviously starting your very first character in your very first game at lvl 11 would be stupid, but if you are in my boat, where a lot of the game days have a lot of mid-high heroic tier adventures, I believe you are allowed to jump into those if you want. Obviously not recommended for newer players, of course.

Can anyone set me straight on my interpretation of these guidelines?
#11
kenobi65
Jul 18, 2010 22:26:02
Just out of curiosity, after reading the CCG 1.99, it seems that you DO have the option to create a character at lvl 1, 5, 8, or 11 at your leisure. Obviously starting your very first character in your very first game at lvl 11 would be stupid, but if you are in my boat, where a lot of the game days have a lot of mid-high heroic tier adventures, I believe you are allowed to jump into those if you want. Obviously not recommended for newer players, of course.

Can anyone set me straight on my interpretation of these guidelines?

You are correct; you can now create characters at higher levels; but that wasn't the case when this discussion was active.

The option to create a new character above 1st level is a new one, first introduced when CCG 1.99 was released a few weeks ago. If you look at the dates of all of the earlier posts in this thread, they all were made *before* the new CCG (and this option) was available.

So, everything that was said in those earlier posts about not being able to do this in LFR is no longer relevant.
#12
Cavuste
Jul 18, 2010 22:38:13 Oh I know, I saw that dates and assumed that the previous posts were irrelevant, I just wanted to make sure that my interpretations of the current ruling were correct and this seemed to be the best forum for that.

Thanks for the prompt response:-)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 excelis Feb 22, 2010 0:43:05	My current goup has a problem. Basically one of our group is only level 5 and the others are level 8 (or almost level 8). Due to the level brackets of the LFR modules the level 8's can no longer adventure with the level 5 and there are no other RPGA groups with which the the level 5 can adventure. One option (which we all hate) would be for all of us to start level 1s and level them up to 5 (because the first bracket is 1-4). Then the original level 5 could join these new characters and level up to 8 (second braket is 5-7). Then all switch back to our originals and continue on. This would require months of leveling due to our schedules while all our main characters would sit unplayed. Not to mention the wasted work on these secondary characters because they would get little or no play after being used for leveling up the level 5. It appears to me that CCG would allow the level 8s to roll up new legal RPGA characters of higher than level 1. If so then the level 8s can all roll up level 5s and save us all that wasted time and effort of getting new characters up to level 5 just to discard them after a few adventures with the original level 5. Here is the quote from CCG 1.95 that I refer too: "If you're creating a character higher than 1st level for a specific campaign (either RPGA program or a home game), simply follow the rules in the Dungeon Master's Guide page 143, in addition to those in the guide." So can we roll up new legal RPGA characters of higher than level 1 in the above situation?
#2 bgibbons Feb 22, 2010 1:04:34	So can we roll up new legal RPGA characters of higher than level 1 in the above situation? No. "All characters start at 1st level unless otherwise specified. Some RPGA programs might have characters starting at a higher level, in which case see “Creating a Higher-Level Character” below." Some RPGA programs might in the future, but right now, the only game in town in LFR, which does not. "Living Forgotten Realms characters are created using all the rules presented in the RPGA Character Creation Guide (and start at 1st level just like many characters)" All LFR characters must start at level 1. You cannot roll up a new legal LFR character of higher level. Your options are: * Find another group, either nearby or online, in which that person can play to level up; * Send him away for the weekend to a good-sized convention. A ten-slot convention can give you three levels in a weekend; * Start brand new 1st level characters, play them up to 4th level, then play L4-7 modules to get that character up to 7 so that he can play L7-10 modules... and since this probably won't be the last time this happens, hold on to those characters, since you might need to do this again. Yes, if you are a small-sized group and are interested in only playing one character each, this is a problem. It's going to happen again: consider that a 10th level PC and 11th level PC cannot ever adventure together, and in a group of six with rotating DMs, it's pretty unlikely you'll all end up crossing over to paragon at the same time. The other option, if you are just interested in playing one character within your own group, is to simply decide that you're not playing LFR any more, but rather a home campaign using the LFR adventures for inspiration, in which case you can do anything you want, you just can't ever take those characters to an LFR event.
#3 wagnert Feb 23, 2010 18:28:27	My group solved this problem by having multiple characters per level. We alternate between 2 or 3 level 1-4 characters till they hit level 5. We then start more level 1 characters. We also play the level 4-7 characters till we hit level 8. We usually play each adventure 2 or more times using a different character each time (as required). We get to try out multiple different types of characters and learn how to play each to fight well and complete other characters into a team. Admittedly, we usually get to play 2-3 games a week, but not everyone can make it more than once a week or two. Most of us have at least one Paragon level character. Almost all of us have at least 1, and usually more, 7-10 characters, 4-7 characters, and 1-4 characters. That way, if the normal cleric or wizard can't make it this session, someone else usually has a cleric or wizard character to fill the gap. If your group is 6 or 7 people (including the DM), you could play more regularly with a party of only 4 using alternate characters, and still have each player have a character able to play with the group at whatever level when you have six players plus a DM.
#4 RyndarLocke Apr 12, 2010 9:05:16	So can we roll up new legal RPGA characters of higher than level 1 in the above situation? No. "All characters start at 1st level unless otherwise specified. Some RPGA programs might have characters starting at a higher level, in which case see “Creating a Higher-Level Character” below." Some RPGA programs might in the future, but right now, the only game in town in LFR, which does not. "Living Forgotten Realms characters are created using all the rules presented in the RPGA Character Creation Guide (and start at 1st level just like many characters)" All LFR characters must start at level 1. You cannot roll up a new legal LFR character of higher level. Your options are: * Find another group, either nearby or online, in which that person can play to level up; * Send him away for the weekend to a good-sized convention. A ten-slot convention can give you three levels in a weekend; * Start brand new 1st level characters, play them up to 4th level, then play L4-7 modules to get that character up to 7 so that he can play L7-10 modules... and since this probably won't be the last time this happens, hold on to those characters, since you might need to do this again. Yes, if you are a small-sized group and are interested in only playing one character each, this is a problem. It's going to happen again: consider that a 10th level PC and 11th level PC cannot ever adventure together, and in a group of six with rotating DMs, it's pretty unlikely you'll all end up crossing over to paragon at the same time. The other option, if you are just interested in playing one character within your own group, is to simply decide that you're not playing LFR any more, but rather a home campaign using the LFR adventures for inspiration, in which case you can do anything you want, you just can't ever take those characters to an LFR event. Do you use these characters in other games besides your own small RPGA group? Are these RPGA games hosted at a public venue? If so you have to have some kind 1-4 table available for people without characters of x level to play.
#5 kenobi65 Apr 12, 2010 10:11:13	Are these RPGA games hosted at a public venue? If so you have to have some kind 1-4 table available for people without characters of x level to play. I don't think "you have to" is accurate; there are no such rules in the RPGA requiring an event organizer to always have an offering for entry-level players. If you're playing in a public venue, and you have a reasonable expectation that you might have new players, then it's probably a good idea to have such an offering, but it's by no means mandatory.
#6 RyndarLocke Apr 12, 2010 16:39:09	Are these RPGA games hosted at a public venue? If so you have to have some kind 1-4 table available for people without characters of x level to play. I don't think "you have to" is accurate; there are no such rules in the RPGA requiring an event organizer to always have an offering for entry-level players. If you're playing in a public venue, and you have a reasonable expectation that you might have new players, then it's probably a good idea to have such an offering, but it's by no means mandatory. Public RPGA games, according to the new Gateway rules can not turn away anyone wanting to play. So, you'd have to have a 1-4 table for people without character to be able to play. I'm only stating this, because if they're doing homeplay private rpga gaming then they can and should ignore the module levels and just play.
#7 bgibbons Apr 12, 2010 18:01:12	Public RPGA games, according to the new Gateway rules can not turn away anyone wanting to play. So, you'd have to have a 1-4 table for people without character to be able to play. That's a rather aggressive reading of "This D&D event must be run at a public location and should be open to any players who wish to participate." Note the second one is 'should', not 'must'. There are a wide variety of reasons you can turn away people wanting to play, with the most obvious ones that spring to mind being: * The venue won't let them play there (e.g., it's a convention and they haven't bought a ticket); * Your tables are already full; or * They don't have a legal character for what you are offering. There is no requirement to offer a L1-4 table at every public gameday. It's a good idea, sure, but the choice of what adventures to offer is completely up to the event organizer.
#8 RyndarLocke Apr 12, 2010 18:17:43	Public RPGA games, according to the new Gateway rules can not turn away anyone wanting to play. So, you'd have to have a 1-4 table for people without character to be able to play. That's a rather aggressive reading of "This D&D event must be run at a public location and should be open to any players who wish to participate." Note the second one is 'should', not 'must'. There are a wide variety of reasons you can turn away people wanting to play, with the most obvious ones that spring to mind being: * The venue won't let them play there (e.g., it's a convention and they haven't bought a ticket); * Your tables are already full; or * They don't have a legal character for what you are offering. There is no requirement to offer a L1-4 table at every public gameday. It's a good idea, sure, but the choice of what adventures to offer is completely up to the event organizer. It's not aggressive. It's just pure fairness. If you run a public RPGA event and then turn away anyone not playing a character of level x or higher you have lost the spirit of what the RPGA is and always has been. "Hey we're a public RPGA event, but if you don't have a 7-10 character or you can't play. Ok so that's 4 people with level 10's, and you 2 new guys are sol find a new hobby." EDIT: If you have a legit reason to not host a levl 1-4 game, (no GM's, you only 1-4 table is already full, or you're a private home game) that's fine. And, we don't know if this is private game or a sanctioned public event, so I can only speculate it's a public event or the GM would have just made the call to keep playing his private game despite levels.
#9 pedr Apr 13, 2010 18:03:34	A clarification about the distinction (where one exists) between Private Play and WPN Public events, in case there is any confusion: If you are playing Living Forgotten Realms in order to advance LFR characters then you must follow all the LFR rules including respecting the level bands. Whether the LFR adventure is run at a public WPN event or a private gathering ordered as 'Private Play' is irrelevant. No-one is going to check whether you actually run your LFR adventures according to the rules, particularly if it is a private event. This means that if you want to use the LFR adventures outside the official LFR campaign, no-one will notice and no-one will stop you. It may (or may not) be slightly outside what WotC expect/hope will happen with those adventures, but there's no way anyone would notice. If, however, you run an LFR adventure without following the rules, the characters playing the adventure cannot use the xp, gold, story awards, or anything else gained in that adventure in the LFR campaign. This means that if you ignore the level bands, or create 7th level characters to play a 7-10 adventure, or allow the players to play bugbears and kobolds, you're not actually playing the LFR campaign, even if you are using LFR adventures. As far as 'turning away new players' goes, any public event which is advertised on the event calendar should list the adventures which have been ordered for that event. It's not 100% clear, of course, but if an event only offers paragon tier adventures, attendees should be on notice that the event requires experienced characters. Now if you use the new search engine on the WotC site I'll admit that this doesn't indicate the adventures, but it also doesn't indicate things like time of event, entry prices, etc, so anyone attending will have to contact the organiser in advance, at which point the organiser ought to be indicating whether there are any level bands which will not be catered for. I'm afraid I don't have any other suggestions for the OP, except to encourage some online play, and to plan for this - as mentioned - because this situation will reoccur over the course of the campaign.
#10 Cavuste Jul 18, 2010 21:52:37	Just out of curiosity, after reading the CCG 1.99, it seems that you DO have the option to create a character at lvl 1, 5, 8, or 11 at your leisure. Obviously starting your very first character in your very first game at lvl 11 would be stupid, but if you are in my boat, where a lot of the game days have a lot of mid-high heroic tier adventures, I believe you are allowed to jump into those if you want. Obviously not recommended for newer players, of course. Can anyone set me straight on my interpretation of these guidelines?
#11 kenobi65 Jul 18, 2010 22:26:02	Just out of curiosity, after reading the CCG 1.99, it seems that you DO have the option to create a character at lvl 1, 5, 8, or 11 at your leisure. Obviously starting your very first character in your very first game at lvl 11 would be stupid, but if you are in my boat, where a lot of the game days have a lot of mid-high heroic tier adventures, I believe you are allowed to jump into those if you want. Obviously not recommended for newer players, of course. Can anyone set me straight on my interpretation of these guidelines? You are correct; you can now create characters at higher levels; but that wasn't the case when this discussion was active. The option to create a new character above 1st level is a new one, first introduced when CCG 1.99 was released a few weeks ago. If you look at the dates of all of the earlier posts in this thread, they all were made before the new CCG (and this option) was available. So, everything that was said in those earlier posts about not being able to do this in LFR is no longer relevant.
#12 Cavuste Jul 18, 2010 22:38:13	Oh I know, I saw that dates and assumed that the previous posts were irrelevant, I just wanted to make sure that my interpretations of the current ruling were correct and this seemed to be the best forum for that. Thanks for the prompt response:-)