The problem is we also have a player who is starting to get on people's nerves. In the first game he played, he used his computer for a character sheet and used an online dice roller. He does not appear to own any rulebooks and created his character entirely in Character Builder.
Not surprisingly, he never rolled below a 15 and his character was not bloodied despite taking a fair amount of damage.
The following week, we told him no more computers at the table. He proceeded to roll his dice quickly and still not get less than a 15 or less than average damage during the course of the adventure. The DM was not able to complete the adventure due to delays in this guy figuring out his abilities. Also, he generally figured them out incorrectly, resulting in his character thoroughly dominating the game. Unfortunately, the DM was not familiar with beastmaster rangers and did not realize what was going on.
I had the displeasure of playing at his table during the last session. Despite having two weeks to prepare to play without his computer, he had not made the effort to fill out a character sheet before the game or understand his character's abilities (he invoked the rules a dozen times and was wrong in each instance). He spent most of the first encounter yakking with people at another table, took 20 damage (as a first level ranger) without becoming bloodied, still proceeded to roll 15+ on nearly every attack, and generally contributed to an uncomfortable atmosphere at the table.
The other players were upset that his lack of participation in the first encounter had resulted in utilization of party resources that would have come in handy later. Furthermore, as soon as he did show up, he again dominated the encounter. While everyone else was hoarding their last healing surges and eying that potion in their backpacks, he was dancing about the battle hitting AC 25 and doing ridiculous damage with every attack, even his sub-optimal basic ranged attack.
After the session, I also had a chance to discuss his participation with several other players, including the venue owner (who has DMed twice for this guy now). They all expressed that they are not willing to play in a game he runs and would prefer not to play in future games with him at all. In fact, the only reason he didn't get tossed out that night is that the venue owner is reluctant to toss a customer.
Now I should also note that I am only available to run events every other week. This player and a few others are apparently available 24/7. He was very upset the first time he was told that there would not be an event the next week and has now volunteered to start DMing so that there can be events every week.
So, in short, my problem is that I'm trying to grow a community and want to keep things as open as possible so that we can continue to attract good players. Unfortunately, we've also attracted this lemmon. We have a pretty novice group at this point and many of the players are not comfortable enough with the system to confront this guy on his rules ignorance. I am concerned that he is going to start driving away other players because they don't want to play with him.
I am running the next game he is signed up for and will be reviewing his character sheet beforehand. I'll also be tracking his hit points and dicerolls on my scratch paper during the game. My plan is to go after his character in the first encounter and do at least 20 damage and give him the opportunity to make a bunch of attacks. If I do it right, I should be able to record some stats on him without him realizing that's what I'm doing. Then after the encounter, I'll call a break and confront him with whatever evidence of poor sportsmanship I have. But then what? Make him roll in the middle of the table for the rest of the night, I suppose. Do I actually have the authority as senior GM to toss him? Should I put it to the group? What if I only have 4 players and tossing him would invalidate the game?
I know the RPGA used to have an extensive set of rules and guidelines for dealing with problems like this. Are those rules still in-force with the more casual LFR campaign?
Sorry this has rambled on. It's getting late.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Yes, as senior GM for the event, you have the right and responsibility for enforcing the rules as needed. You also have the responsibility to not let one lemon spoil the fun of the rest of the players.
To be honest, at this point, I would not let him play without having a character sheet in front of him. A filled-out character sheet. With a legal LFR/RPGA build.
I would also make sure that he has a copy of the pHB, at a minimum, in front of himk, anbd if he is playing a Beastmaster Ranger, then he should also have a copy of Martial Power in front of him.
Due to his previous track record, you have every right to make him roll out in the open from the get-go, and the right to make sure he has a normal d20, rather than a spin-down die or Formula D die.
You might also want to actually sit him down, before the game starts, and explain to him what others think of his behavior.
If you take a look at his sheet before-hand, and you're the only one doing any damage to him, then you can know exactly how many hit points he has at any time without being overtly nosy - remind him that he's bloodied when he gets bloodied ("There's another 7 damage, that should have you bloodied now, shouldn't it?") don't wait for him to volunteer it. If he says he isn't, then remind him, "Well, I've done 22 damage to you so far, and you only have 35 hit points at maximum health, so unless I'm missing something you are indeed bloodied".
Basically what I'm saying is that if confronting the guy makes you uncomfortable, there are ways like those above to let the guy know that he can't just make stuff up without being noticed.
You have a range of official steps open to you, if you think that informal approaches aren't going to work. I think your plan is a sound one, but if you find that he doesn't respond to suggestions that he stop cheating, you could show him or give him copies of the rules and penalties available and then in future issue official cautions or warnings - and warnings have to be reported to the RPGA. The lowest appropriate sanction for cheating (e.g. misreporting a die roll or failing to track hit points) under the penalty guidelines is a warning, and repeated offences after receiving a warning can lead to session or even 'play area' ejection.
The RPGA rules suggest that players should be given 'second' chances until the RPGA steps in and suspends their membership, but if the venue owner becomes so exasperated with him that he doesn't want him in the venue, that's got nothing to do with the RPGA!
From there, if he's a character builder he can print out a character sheet so he'll have a paper copy, eliminating the need to have a computer open at the table.
In terms of dice rolling I think the best you can do is to have him roll in the middle in view of other players, any cheaty-sneaky rolls should be fairly obvious (like dice drops, etc). Have him calculate some of the numbers in front of you, most players won't mind doing as long as its not for every single roll. I do it on occasion, usually because my players tend to forgot something versus cheating though.
I personally don't believe in requiring a player to have the books, as long as they have the information and a basic understanding. As long as someone has the information it doesn't matter to me who actually does. Maybe a third of my player base owns the PHB, although every few games I get another person who buys it without any mention from me (more flies with honey then with vinegar).
I think its easy enough of a rule to require players to focus at table, however you'd need the venue owner to enforce that kind of rule. If possible get the venue owner to create a code of conduct for gaming on-site (something simple forbidding cheating, harassment, disrupting the game, etc) and have each player sign it with violations resulting in temporary suspensions up to being disallowed at tables held on-site.
You would be reasonable to ask players to clearly announce when as an action they are using Second Wind, or drinking a potion of healing, etc. to avoid claims of healing that were not noticed.
Don't know if the gamer is intentionally cheating or just ignorant of the rules or whatever. If fairly new, I would suggest a private session to go over his character sheet and make him familiar with the various numbers. That will also let you as DM be more familiar with his character.
Keith
1) As everyone else has said, roll in the middle of the table, or at least roll out in the open. "Roll and scoop" results in an automatic re-roll.
2) Character sheets are a must. If you don't have it written on a character sheet you can't use it. Not even Second Winds.
3) Every DM, especially with new DMs or players, can and should call for explanations for anything that sounds off or way too good. There are certainly a lot of ways that a 1st level PC in 4E can do 25 damage in a round. But it can help everyone be comfortable with how powers work if it is explained in detail at least a few times.
4) Don't be afraid to keep track of damage on a dry-erase/white board, chalkboard or poster board or the like. For everyone. PCs and NPCs alike. If it looks like this yahoo (ok, that might be unfair but ...) has taken enough damage to be bloodied and he isn't, ask him how many hit points his PC has. Most PCs at 1st level won't have more than 30 (my Avenger barely eeks out 27) so a 20 damage non-blooded 1st level PC is a no no.
5) Talk to the owner of the restaurant. He might not like turning away players or customers, but getting rid of one bad apple can save the whole bunch. I'm sure if you explain how many folks are uncomfortable with this player that he'll be willing to make the call that results in least harm to the community.
I suspect that this player is either so new that he doesn't know what he doesn't know and is trying to fake it (non-maliciously) or he is a chronic pain in the --- and even if confronted with the above, will still find ways to make your life miserable.
But talk to the player first and try 1-4 above. This could just be the "honeymoon" period as everyone learns the game, and this could solve a lot of problems including the ones you're running into with this player.
If those don't work, then 5 is probably your go-to choice.
PS
6) You could make sure everyone understands the RPGA rules and guidelines, which include sportsmanship (ie no cheating), fair play and fun for -all-. Might want to post the rules doc somewhere or make sure your organizer brings them with him.
I know the RPGA used to have an extensive set of rules and guidelines for dealing with problems like this. Are those rules still in-force with the more casual LFR campaign?
There are RPGA rules; RPGA enforcement, however, is a much more non-existent matter.
To a large extent, decisions as to who can and cannot play are left up to the venue owner and the event organizer.
It is commendable (or perhaps a sign of how bad it is) that you're willing to address this issue--a common problem among gamers is conflict-averseness, which leads to one problem player driving away multiple other players you'd rather have instead.
As others have noted, there's two basic things you could do to make your life easier:
- Require character sheets.
If you think there's a chance he's honestly confused as to what he can do, use a character sheet that's clearer. Here's one I use for new players.
- Require dice to be rolled in the center of the table.
If the issue is ignorance, the above changes should help cure that. Otherwise, the next step is either to pull him aside for a private conversation, and if that doesn't work, it's time for a talk with the venue owner.
Mike
We have two tables, so I'm meeting with the other DM tomorrow to plan our strategy.
We will institute a policy of DMs giving each character sheet a cursory review before the game and going over any abilities that the DM or other players are less familiar with. This will encourage DMs and players to step outside their preferred classes and learn more about the game.
We will also request that players declare their action type, action name, and bonus then roll the D20 in front of their books where others can see. This is both for fairness (cheating prevention) and so that the table can work as a team to police the gamestate. I think this will be enough of a boon to the party in terms of remembering and applying beneficial conditions as to offset the extra time required.
Regarding leaving the table; during combat, you leave at your own risk. You will be attacked, if that is tactically appropriate for the enemies. Unless you leave specific instructions to the contrary, you will be on delay until you return. Players who miss a significant portion of an encounter may (at DM's discretion) not receive full experience for that encounter or associated treasure options.
If the problem somehow manages to persist through the first half of the adventure, we'll call a break and the other DM, the restaurant owner, and I will sit down with the player and tell him that if he's not here to play D&D, he needs to go. I think that will make it a little less personal than if I singled him out.
I will post to let you all know how it works out. Personally, I'm hoping he settles right in and we don't have any problems. The kid wants to DM in the future. We could use him as it's hard to make this a weekly thing with all of my other obligations. He's one of the few people in the group with nothing else on his schedule. But, on the other hand, no one wants a half-out-to-lunch, rules-ignorant cheater running their game.
We will also request that players declare their action type, action name, and bonus then roll the D20 in front of their books where others can see.
This is one I try to enforce locally as well, maybe not rolling in front of the books when I have friends only at the table but I'm pretty adamant that if you didn't tell me what you were doing before you made an attack roll that it is a basic attack. Same thing on skill challenges when you roll a die and blurt out that you do something and say that's a 35... Nothing rolled before an action is declared ever counts.
In fact, the only reason he didn't get tossed out that night is that the venue owner is reluctant to toss a customer.
If he does not have a Player's Handbook or Martial Power (for Beastmaster) then he must not a very good customer unless, of course, he buys lots of other games at that particular store.
If he does not have a Player's Handbook or Martial Power (for Beastmaster) then he must not a very good customer unless, of course, he buys lots of other games at that particular store.
The game location is at a local restaurant, not a game store, per the original post. So, the one does not follow from the other, although the FLGS would agree that someone who didn't buy their books at the FLGS is a not-good customer for them...
Pull him aside and say there's been concern about how well he seems to do on his rolls and the large number of hit points he has. Tell him to please print out a character sheet and roll regular dice like everyone else.
If he doesn't change his habits then don't be afraid to turn him away. Better to lose one person rather than several that refuse to play with him or have less fun because they think he's cheating.
The RPGA is a hobby, not a babysitting service. You don't have to guarantee everyone a seat.
Oh, and for fun and giggles, might want to read up on this:
http://www.blifaloo.com/info/lies.php
Some cues to see if people are lying
I called him out on a roll in the first encounter kind of gave a spiel about how everyone needs to help police the gamestate and make sure bonuses are declared and included. He promptly declared an attack at +7, rolled a 9 and said "14", proving my point.
He got several rules issues wrong, did not track his hit points (I had to remind him that he was bloodied), etc. I continue to think that some of the dice rolling is cheating, but the other stuff might just be a very poor understanding of the game. Unfortunately, the poor understanding always seems to play in his favor.
Feeding into this is the fact that he is the only regular player with a striker, so his damage output seems abnormally high. I think the other DMs just haven't realized how low his defenses are. Since we have alot of defenders, it has been hard to go after him, too. Consequentially, he often has a free pass to attack without much retribution. So he seems much tougher than he is.
On the positive side, I think the problem has an end in sight. Our other players are learning very quickly and are much more into picking up the rules (literally, even; there were 2 brand new PHBs at the game on Friday) and making an effort to play the game right. They weren't fooled for more than an instant when he claimed to have threatening reach with his greatspear and they called him before I did when he tried to charge with both his PC and his beast on the same standard action.
I will not be at the game next week and four of the six player slots are taken. But if he gets into the game, he will be playing with a pretty seasoned group (one other DM at the table and another experienced DM running the game). We'll have a briefing beforehand to go over some of the rules he's been living on the edge of and just continue to crack down on his behavior until either it goes away or he does. And if that fails, well, once he hits third level, he's going to have an awfully hard time going to fourth on just the free version of Character Builder!