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Hypothetical cheating in private event

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Geer_
Feb 25, 2010 19:21:10 I have a hypothetical question regarding if a player is caught cheating in a private session. Currently, I've been running the pre-made modules (H1 & H2, might be starting H3 soon) for my players. In our last session, I believe I caught one of the players cheating. (Specifically, he edited a macro such that the online dice roller would produce a minimum result of 10 on a d20 roll for a saving throw, instead of being a pure d20 roll.) I noticed this after the session was over when I was double-checking for power and healing surge uses, etc., so I have yet to bring up the issue to the player; that will happen next session. Since this was just a casual game, there's no official penalty to be had. However, I was considering signing up for DM rewards, so each of the sessions would be officially tracked, all the players would have DCI/RPGA numbers, etc. So my question is twofold:
1. Say the above had occurred during an "official" session. If this is just a private event, but it is still effectively sanctioned as a WPN/RPGA event, does that mean that the player is subject to the penalties for an RPGA event, i.e. a warning in this case? Would a report have to be filed? (Or, for that matter, are players in general subject to the other penalties in general, e.g. a caution for showing up late?)
2. In the event #1 is true, how would such a scenario be handled when the incident is discovered after the fact, i.e. after the session has ended?
#2
WolfStar76
Feb 25, 2010 20:06:38 The current status of RPGA penalties is a bit of a grey area. As you undoubtedly noticed, the rules document is a fair bit out of date. However, I feel comfortable saying that those ARE still the official rules and procedures.

To that end:

1) I would say yes, RPGA rules apply when a game is RPGA sanctioned. To that end, if you as the Senior GM/Organizer wish to persue the matter and file an official report about the behavior, you're certainly well within your rights to do so.

2) I would say yes here as well. Cheating is cheating - if the game were "real" instead of virtual and you found out about it after the fact because someone else at the table told you about loaded dice being used - you'd still be within your rights to penalize the player accordingly.
#3
Dragon9
Mar 04, 2010 7:22:34 Was this game being played online? If not, make him roll physical dice. If it's not online, there's no reason to be using a dice bot. If it is online and he has prven untrustworthy in that regard, roll for him.
#4
Geer_
Mar 04, 2010 18:13:13 Indeed, it was online (via MapTool). Hard to be in person when part of your group has moved away to different cities/provinces. ;) Can't really do physical dice-rolling due to lack of webcams. In fact, I suspect him of "fudging" some of his actual dice rolls when we were playing together with real dice. So I was requiring everyone to use the program to ensure no one could lie about what what they rolled. It never occurred to me that someone could still cheat by editing the macros.
In any event, I raised the issue with the player, saying that if he pulled that kind of stunt again, he would be out of the group, and warned him what the additional consequences would have been had this in fact been sanctioned. (Aside: I don't necessarily mind the occasional fudge of the dice; I do it myself in my capacity as DM to increase/decrease the difficulty of the encounter if necessary, e.g. if things are going extremely badly for the players. However, this was quite blatant and happened repeatedly.) I've also temporarily solved the problem by removing the players' ability to edit the macros. There are probably ways around that, but for now it should do.
#5
gc1ceo
Mar 08, 2010 12:17:08 Roll for him and cite your reasons, probably the easiest thing aside from banning him from the table. I use MTs both offline and online myself (its great to just project a map instead of trying to put it together for my purposes).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Geer_ Feb 25, 2010 19:21:10	I have a hypothetical question regarding if a player is caught cheating in a private session. Currently, I've been running the pre-made modules (H1 & H2, might be starting H3 soon) for my players. In our last session, I believe I caught one of the players cheating. (Specifically, he edited a macro such that the online dice roller would produce a minimum result of 10 on a d20 roll for a saving throw, instead of being a pure d20 roll.) I noticed this after the session was over when I was double-checking for power and healing surge uses, etc., so I have yet to bring up the issue to the player; that will happen next session. Since this was just a casual game, there's no official penalty to be had. However, I was considering signing up for DM rewards, so each of the sessions would be officially tracked, all the players would have DCI/RPGA numbers, etc. So my question is twofold: 1. Say the above had occurred during an "official" session. If this is just a private event, but it is still effectively sanctioned as a WPN/RPGA event, does that mean that the player is subject to the penalties for an RPGA event, i.e. a warning in this case? Would a report have to be filed? (Or, for that matter, are players in general subject to the other penalties in general, e.g. a caution for showing up late?) 2. In the event #1 is true, how would such a scenario be handled when the incident is discovered after the fact, i.e. after the session has ended?
#2 WolfStar76 Feb 25, 2010 20:06:38	The current status of RPGA penalties is a bit of a grey area. As you undoubtedly noticed, the rules document is a fair bit out of date. However, I feel comfortable saying that those ARE still the official rules and procedures. To that end: 1) I would say yes, RPGA rules apply when a game is RPGA sanctioned. To that end, if you as the Senior GM/Organizer wish to persue the matter and file an official report about the behavior, you're certainly well within your rights to do so. 2) I would say yes here as well. Cheating is cheating - if the game were "real" instead of virtual and you found out about it after the fact because someone else at the table told you about loaded dice being used - you'd still be within your rights to penalize the player accordingly.
#3 Dragon9 Mar 04, 2010 7:22:34	Was this game being played online? If not, make him roll physical dice. If it's not online, there's no reason to be using a dice bot. If it is online and he has prven untrustworthy in that regard, roll for him.
#4 Geer_ Mar 04, 2010 18:13:13	Indeed, it was online (via MapTool). Hard to be in person when part of your group has moved away to different cities/provinces. ;) Can't really do physical dice-rolling due to lack of webcams. In fact, I suspect him of "fudging" some of his actual dice rolls when we were playing together with real dice. So I was requiring everyone to use the program to ensure no one could lie about what what they rolled. It never occurred to me that someone could still cheat by editing the macros. In any event, I raised the issue with the player, saying that if he pulled that kind of stunt again, he would be out of the group, and warned him what the additional consequences would have been had this in fact been sanctioned. (Aside: I don't necessarily mind the occasional fudge of the dice; I do it myself in my capacity as DM to increase/decrease the difficulty of the encounter if necessary, e.g. if things are going extremely badly for the players. However, this was quite blatant and happened repeatedly.) I've also temporarily solved the problem by removing the players' ability to edit the macros. There are probably ways around that, but for now it should do.
#5 gc1ceo Mar 08, 2010 12:17:08	Roll for him and cite your reasons, probably the easiest thing aside from banning him from the table. I use MTs both offline and online myself (its great to just project a map instead of trying to put it together for my purposes).