LFR Reporting update - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

LFR Reporting update

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
patwashburn
Jun 04, 2009 17:28:39 As of Friday, June 5, organizers are no longer able to report character-specific information from Living Forgotten Realms adventures. Players are now completely responsible for tracking their character's XP, gold, and magic item bundles earned from play of Living Forgotten Realms adventures. DMs running individual tables do not need to fill in any character-specific information on their tracking forms (although they should still enter adventure questions).

When an organizer reports a Living Forgotten Realms adventure, they now need only enter the DM's DCI/RPGA number, the players' DCI/RPGA numbers, and answer the adventure questions related to the adventure. New tracking forms for all the adventures are being generated and should be added to existing adventure files soon.

Players have three options with which to track their characters' rewards:

1. Use a paper adventure logsheet. One version is available in the RPGA Character Creation Guide.
2. Use the D&D Character Builder's Journal entry function (accessible through the "Manage" tab).
3. Use the free-text tool provided in your DCI/RPGA profile to enter character information. Once you've logged into your profile, simply click on the "My Characters" link on the right-hand navigation to access this feature. You can type whatever information you'd like into the text field.

Note: Players are responsible for bringing their all adventure documentation with them to show past participation in adventures. If you're playing in a multi-adventure event (such as a convention), it's advisable to bring a paper logsheet to add recent adventure activity to your pre-event activity.

What's to prevent players from just carrying multiple characters of the appropriate level and just using whatever one they feel like at any given event? I really would have preferred more character information to be reported,not less....

It feels like we're being forced to assume that everyone isn't going to cheat, lie and steal like bandits. My local players [one's that run every week] are going to have trouble doing that, but I have many, out of towners who play at other locations and I"ve already had issues with one about gp issues. Now we are going to have even more problems....
#2
patwashburn
Jun 04, 2009 17:30:42 Sorry about the giant text, It didn't format the way I though it would....:embarrass
#3
WolfStar76
Jun 04, 2009 17:54:59 You'll note this is stickied at the top of the forum as well.
#4
_Mithreinmaethor_
Jun 04, 2009 19:00:13
Sorry about the giant text, It didn't format the way I though it would....:embarrass

WOTC doesn't care if you cheat anymore. They wish to turn a blind eye to it and hope or assume that people wont do it. It goes with their "anything goes" campaign style they chose over the previous campaign format.

Perhaps I shouldn't say they don't care if you cheat, they would just rather assume that you wont cheat.
#5
kenobi65
Jun 04, 2009 19:13:11
I really would have preferred more character information to be reported,not less....

The issue has been that implementation of the character database has been a major pain for everyone involved.
- From the start, mis-reporting led to the character records not necessarily being accurate, and getting errors fixed was a hit-and-miss proposition. If players couldn't count on the records being accurate, it became a useless tool for many of them.
-The way the database was set up, it made reporting a mid-sized or larger event tremendously time-consuming and frustrating.
- The recent split of RPGA events into WPN (public) events and private events necessitated a split in the database, with the unintentional effect of causing character records to not match up between WPN play and private play. From what I've read, the database folks didn't think that the problem was one they could easily fix.

So, while the character database was a good idea in theory, it just didn't work in practice.

And, yes, the RPGA largely operates on the honor system. The assumption is that the vast majority of players are going to be honest, and any systems that would be put in place to shut down cheaters would likely have the side-effect of making play unreasonably more difficult for the honest players, as well.
#6
emryys
Jun 04, 2009 19:53:13 I guess the only reason to cheat, would be to play in games of a level you haven'y reached properly...

If a player doesn't have an adventure record showing how they got to said level... A rule could be in place to prevent playing. Arguments would ensue... ;)

You could have a line on the adventure form for DM name/Game date.
Wouldn't prevent cheating, but might lend some credibility.
#7
_Mithreinmaethor_
Jun 04, 2009 19:55:32
I guess the only reason to cheat, would be to play in games of a level you haven'y reached properly...

If a player doesn't have an adventure record showing how they got to said level... A rule could be in place to prevent playing. Arguments would ensue... ;)

You could have a line on the adventure form for DM name/Game date.
Wouldn't prevent cheating, but might lend some credibility.

In LG the GM had to sign, date and put his/her RPGA number on the AR that was given to each player. And if something came up at a convention etc the Senior GM could audit your character and check all of your AR's to make sure it all adds up. There were even rules by which you could lose your character as well.
#8
kenobi65
Jun 04, 2009 20:38:00
In LG the GM had to sign, date and put his/her RPGA number on the AR that was given to each player. And if something came up at a convention etc the Senior GM could audit your character and check all of your AR's to make sure it all adds up. There were even rules by which you could lose your character as well.

All of which could be fabricated easily enough by someone determined enough...especially if you're in from "out of town".

Just saying that the ARs were, by no means, a foolproof way of stopping cheating.
#9
ibixat
Jun 05, 2009 0:34:44
All of which could be fabricated easily enough by someone determined enough...especially if you're in from "out of town".

Just saying that the ARs were, by no means, a foolproof way of stopping cheating.

People who felt like cheating were already going to cheat, mounds of paperwork on everyone else involved to attempt to stop this (and fail at stopping it) was just silly. Making people jump through hoops who play legit and causing the cheaters to just fabricate the hoops they jumped through just ends with everyone wasting time that could be better spent doing other things.

If someone is going to cheat oh well, there is no prize, there is no award at the end, there is no actual competition that must be won, and just like playing a video game with cheat codes turned on, it won't be nearly as satisfying in the end. When I someday reach 30th I want to know that I played every single adventure, killed hundreds of baddies, failed to succeed here and there and overall have the stories and memories of those games. Some guy who just makes a 21st level character with fake history and plays through the 20's won't have had as much fun with his character as I have, and it's his loss, not mine.
#10
KarmaInferno
Jun 05, 2009 6:29:08 The reality is that it's just not worth it for the RPGA to actively try and prevent cheating.

You inconvenience and possibly alienate legit players, spend significant time and resources, and for what, really?

Will it improve play for the membership? Not really.

You might catch a handful of cheaters, and... not affect anyone else by this, as the cheating really has no real effect on anyone but the cheaters.

So, not worth it.

-karma
#11
dbeman
Jun 05, 2009 6:49:47
WOTC doesn't care if you cheat anymore. They wish to turn a blind eye to it and hope or assume that people wont do it. It goes with their "anything goes" campaign style they chose over the previous campaign format.

Perhaps I shouldn't say they don't care if you cheat, they would just rather assume that you wont cheat.

I've said this before and I'll say it again now...

1. What is the point of cheating in a cooperative RPG?
2. Who cares if someone does?

Yes its cheating in the sense that they are not following the rules....but it also doesn't give anyone an unfair competitive advantage over anyone else. There are no ratings or rankings to speak of...heck there aren't even participation prizes for players anymore.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 patwashburn Jun 04, 2009 17:28:39	As of Friday, June 5, organizers are no longer able to report character-specific information from Living Forgotten Realms adventures. Players are now completely responsible for tracking their character's XP, gold, and magic item bundles earned from play of Living Forgotten Realms adventures. DMs running individual tables do not need to fill in any character-specific information on their tracking forms (although they should still enter adventure questions). When an organizer reports a Living Forgotten Realms adventure, they now need only enter the DM's DCI/RPGA number, the players' DCI/RPGA numbers, and answer the adventure questions related to the adventure. New tracking forms for all the adventures are being generated and should be added to existing adventure files soon. Players have three options with which to track their characters' rewards: 1. Use a paper adventure logsheet. One version is available in the RPGA Character Creation Guide. 2. Use the D&D Character Builder's Journal entry function (accessible through the "Manage" tab). 3. Use the free-text tool provided in your DCI/RPGA profile to enter character information. Once you've logged into your profile, simply click on the "My Characters" link on the right-hand navigation to access this feature. You can type whatever information you'd like into the text field. Note: Players are responsible for bringing their all adventure documentation with them to show past participation in adventures. If you're playing in a multi-adventure event (such as a convention), it's advisable to bring a paper logsheet to add recent adventure activity to your pre-event activity. What's to prevent players from just carrying multiple characters of the appropriate level and just using whatever one they feel like at any given event? I really would have preferred more character information to be reported,not less.... It feels like we're being forced to assume that everyone isn't going to cheat, lie and steal like bandits. My local players [one's that run every week] are going to have trouble doing that, but I have many, out of towners who play at other locations and I"ve already had issues with one about gp issues. Now we are going to have even more problems....
#2 patwashburn Jun 04, 2009 17:30:42	Sorry about the giant text, It didn't format the way I though it would....:embarrass
#3 WolfStar76 Jun 04, 2009 17:54:59	You'll note this is stickied at the top of the forum as well.
#4 _Mithreinmaethor_ Jun 04, 2009 19:00:13	Sorry about the giant text, It didn't format the way I though it would....:embarrass WOTC doesn't care if you cheat anymore. They wish to turn a blind eye to it and hope or assume that people wont do it. It goes with their "anything goes" campaign style they chose over the previous campaign format. Perhaps I shouldn't say they don't care if you cheat, they would just rather assume that you wont cheat.
#5 kenobi65 Jun 04, 2009 19:13:11	I really would have preferred more character information to be reported,not less.... The issue has been that implementation of the character database has been a major pain for everyone involved. - From the start, mis-reporting led to the character records not necessarily being accurate, and getting errors fixed was a hit-and-miss proposition. If players couldn't count on the records being accurate, it became a useless tool for many of them. -The way the database was set up, it made reporting a mid-sized or larger event tremendously time-consuming and frustrating. - The recent split of RPGA events into WPN (public) events and private events necessitated a split in the database, with the unintentional effect of causing character records to not match up between WPN play and private play. From what I've read, the database folks didn't think that the problem was one they could easily fix. So, while the character database was a good idea in theory, it just didn't work in practice. And, yes, the RPGA largely operates on the honor system. The assumption is that the vast majority of players are going to be honest, and any systems that would be put in place to shut down cheaters would likely have the side-effect of making play unreasonably more difficult for the honest players, as well.
#6 emryys Jun 04, 2009 19:53:13	I guess the only reason to cheat, would be to play in games of a level you haven'y reached properly... If a player doesn't have an adventure record showing how they got to said level... A rule could be in place to prevent playing. Arguments would ensue... ;) You could have a line on the adventure form for DM name/Game date. Wouldn't prevent cheating, but might lend some credibility.
#7 _Mithreinmaethor_ Jun 04, 2009 19:55:32	I guess the only reason to cheat, would be to play in games of a level you haven'y reached properly... If a player doesn't have an adventure record showing how they got to said level... A rule could be in place to prevent playing. Arguments would ensue... ;) You could have a line on the adventure form for DM name/Game date. Wouldn't prevent cheating, but might lend some credibility. In LG the GM had to sign, date and put his/her RPGA number on the AR that was given to each player. And if something came up at a convention etc the Senior GM could audit your character and check all of your AR's to make sure it all adds up. There were even rules by which you could lose your character as well.
#8 kenobi65 Jun 04, 2009 20:38:00	In LG the GM had to sign, date and put his/her RPGA number on the AR that was given to each player. And if something came up at a convention etc the Senior GM could audit your character and check all of your AR's to make sure it all adds up. There were even rules by which you could lose your character as well. All of which could be fabricated easily enough by someone determined enough...especially if you're in from "out of town". Just saying that the ARs were, by no means, a foolproof way of stopping cheating.
#9 ibixat Jun 05, 2009 0:34:44	All of which could be fabricated easily enough by someone determined enough...especially if you're in from "out of town". Just saying that the ARs were, by no means, a foolproof way of stopping cheating. People who felt like cheating were already going to cheat, mounds of paperwork on everyone else involved to attempt to stop this (and fail at stopping it) was just silly. Making people jump through hoops who play legit and causing the cheaters to just fabricate the hoops they jumped through just ends with everyone wasting time that could be better spent doing other things. If someone is going to cheat oh well, there is no prize, there is no award at the end, there is no actual competition that must be won, and just like playing a video game with cheat codes turned on, it won't be nearly as satisfying in the end. When I someday reach 30th I want to know that I played every single adventure, killed hundreds of baddies, failed to succeed here and there and overall have the stories and memories of those games. Some guy who just makes a 21st level character with fake history and plays through the 20's won't have had as much fun with his character as I have, and it's his loss, not mine.
#10 KarmaInferno Jun 05, 2009 6:29:08	The reality is that it's just not worth it for the RPGA to actively try and prevent cheating. You inconvenience and possibly alienate legit players, spend significant time and resources, and for what, really? Will it improve play for the membership? Not really. You might catch a handful of cheaters, and... not affect anyone else by this, as the cheating really has no real effect on anyone but the cheaters. So, not worth it. -karma
#11 dbeman Jun 05, 2009 6:49:47	WOTC doesn't care if you cheat anymore. They wish to turn a blind eye to it and hope or assume that people wont do it. It goes with their "anything goes" campaign style they chose over the previous campaign format. Perhaps I shouldn't say they don't care if you cheat, they would just rather assume that you wont cheat. I've said this before and I'll say it again now... 1. What is the point of cheating in a cooperative RPG? 2. Who cares if someone does? Yes its cheating in the sense that they are not following the rules....but it also doesn't give anyone an unfair competitive advantage over anyone else. There are no ratings or rankings to speak of...heck there aren't even participation prizes for players anymore.