But i digress.
I just ran a group through "Sense of Wonder" (where you once agin work for a gnome) & found i was having trouble reading the maps. What happened to the B&W maps of old. The simple to read, easy to understand maps of Dungeon. Now i know that Wizards is trying to sell more units of their "Dungeon Tiles" but i have some issues with trying to illustrate maps with them. (assuming iof course that thats what i'm looking at)
1. If you don't print the maps in colour they look dreadful & are incredibly hard to distinguish details.
2. Even when printing in B&W & not in colour the full colour maps are a drain on my resources (mainly ink).
3. The lack of a legend or key on the map makes people resort to flicking back and fourth between pages as the GM tries to figure out what is what. For instance in "Sense of Wonder" there are three items (multiples of the same item, not three different items) that do not appear on the encounter list because they are not combat creatures. I had read through the adventure three times before running & still had to go looking to make sure the item was what i thought it was.
4. At one point i actually mistook a particular room for another room & had to try and figure out where the wording is ambigous. Now this to was probably my own fault but still the maps didn't help
As a group we would rather utilize a tactical map & dry erase markers. Mainly due to the available choices & the creativity that such freeform mapping can sometimes invoke.
What i was wondering was what does everyone else think about the maps in living modules?
What i was wondering was what does everyone else think about the maps in living modules?
I like having the maps as they are. They're based on dungeon tiles, which gives GMs plenty of options for how to create their maps.
Pulling from their Dungeon Tiles collection to make the maps we see, using the dungeon tile mapping program and blowing up the image to "full size" for use at a table, or simply doing like you prefer (and I do as well) and drawing out the map on a battlemap with wet-erase.
I just played (and then read through) CORE1-3 and don't see any problems with the map(s) therein. The only part I can see being problematic would be if you didn't read the details about the sigil and let people get past it without doing the prerequisite work.
Anyhow, I vote in favor of the system in use now. It creates maps that are standardized (instead of this author using MSPaint, this author using Dunjinni, this one using tiles, this one hand-drawing things, etc). I don't have to worry about trying to translate completely different map at different scales, etc.
Just my $.02
What really threw me on the maps was when i was reading the map for encounter 3 (page 16) of Flames of Initiation (BALD-1-1). This is a prime example of where a hand drawn map would have been better then relying on dungeon tiles.
I wont go into detail but the encounter includes two creatures who hide in water. This in its self is fine but there are only two "puddles" of water, each contained within 2 squares each. Any player who has played for more then two seconds is going to say "Nope, their are monsters in that water." Now if this map had been hand drawn the Designer would have had a much easier time of developing the maps. after all one of the concepts behind 4E is "Dynamic Environment."
If one had hand drawn the maps, it could have included slippery terrain & both shallow & deep water. at the very least it wouldn't have contained two perfectly round pools right next to each other.
I like having the maps as they are. They're based on dungeon tiles, which gives GMs plenty of options for how to create their maps.
Actually, i would have thought making the map free-hand would have given you much more in the way of options for map creation, after all the only limit would be the writers imagination.
Anyhow, I vote in favor of the system in use now. It creates maps that are standardized (instead of this author using MSPaint, this author using Dunjinni, this one using tiles, this one hand-drawing things, etc). I don't have to worry about trying to translate completely different map at different scales, etc.
I have no problem with standardization of maps, but as i understand it, the RPGA is now paying for modules & they do seem to have a "map-guy" on staff, so the point is moot. Its not exactly like hand drawn maps are extremely hard to make, nor is it like living greyhawk, where the maps were fan made.
It just seems a little like they are trying to hard. After all, there are going to be 5 to 7 people at the table in any given session & only one of those people is actually going to be able to see these map (the GM). I suppose in the end it all comes down to style... different strokes and all that.
Thank you for your $.02 (um is that Australian or American cents?)
I wont go into detail but the encounter includes two creatures who hide in water. This in its self is fine but there are only two "puddles" of water, each contained within 2 squares each. Any player who has played for more then two seconds is going to say "Nope, their are monsters in that water." Now if this map had been hand drawn the Designer would have had a much easier time of developing the maps. after all one of the concepts behind 4E is "Dynamic Environment."I know the encounter you're talking about. I'm pretty sure you meant each "puddle" was 2x2 (Square) you make it sound like each was 2x1. ;)If one had hand drawn the maps, it could have included slippery terrain & both shallow & deep water. at the very least it wouldn't have contained two perfectly round pools right next to each other.
I'll concede that free-handing can make for less "square/round" maps, I don't know that I miss the difference, however, as in combat I'm seldom taking the time to observe how "irregular" a body of water is and instead just deciding how to avoid falling (or being pulled) in.
A matter of preference there I guess.Actually, i would have thought making the map free-hand would have given you much more in the way of options for map creation, after all the only limit would be the writers imagination.
I have no problem with standardization of maps, but as i understand it, the RPGA is now paying for modules & they do seem to have a "map-guy" on staff, so the point is moot. Its not exactly like hand drawn maps are extremely hard to make, nor is it like living greyhawk, where the maps were fan made.
I'm not aware of the RPGA having a map-guy. I know the magazines have someone doing maps, but it's my understanding that maps in the RPGA are a duty given the module authors. I haven't seen the writer's guidelines myself, but that's my understanding based on conversations based on those guidelines.It just seems a little like they are trying to hard. After all, there are going to be 5 to 7 people at the table in any given session & only one of those people is actually going to be able to see these map (the GM). I suppose in the end it all comes down to style... different strokes and all that.
Thank you for your $.02 (um is that Australian or American cents?)
American. I'm a yank, for better or worse. :D
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lfrx/writers
I've been thinking of trying to write some modules (though I think I'll need some more experience at running games, first), and I found this extremely enlightening.
...and the new DMG is awesome.
For LFR (at least?), the writer's guidelines are posted clear on the website, so you can reference them if you like:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lfrx/writers
Nice.
Doesn't solve me having too many other things taking up my free time, but still, well worth noting.
Whats more neither side has felt the need to quote the CoC or resort to childish name calling... i think we went terribly wrong somewhere.
In the end though i think the whole map thing comes down to a matter of personal choice & honestly i shouldn't complain; after all its free.
Let us shake hands & mayhap one day soon we shall find ourselves on the WotC Battlefield, fighting side by side.
Saint Matthew
Patron Saint of Gamers
Well Wolfstar I think one of us should contact someone in charge of the board... ;) i think we may have done something wrong here. We are both on differing sides of this issue, but have had a friendly discourse with both sides making good points based on fact and logic.
Whats more neither side has felt the need to quote the CoC or resort to childish name calling... i think we went terribly wrong somewhere.
In the end though i think the whole map thing comes down to a matter of personal choice & honestly i shouldn't complain; after all its free.
Let us shake hands & mayhap one day soon we shall find ourselves on the WotC Battlefield, fighting side by side.
Saint Matthew
Patron Saint of Gamers
The (sad?) truth of the matter is, I've never read the CoC. Yeah. . . odd for a VCL I suppose, but I just go by the "Don't be a jerk, don't allow for jerks" rule of thumb and . . . well. . . it got me this task, so I must be doing something right.
But if the lack of mud-slinging has left you dissapointed, I'm sure I could call you poopy-head or something. Y'know, just so you don't feel completely cheated.
Poopyhead.
