October 2008 Questions and Comments for the Admins

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

WolfStar76

Oct 06, 2008 19:07:12
I thought I'd start off a monthly thread series to help players ask the sticky "grey area" questions that aren't explained, or are somewhat ambiguous in the RPGA guidelines (most specifically, in the most recent versions of the CCG).

For the time being I'm going to host the thread here in the LFR forum, as most of the active discussion and debate of rules seems to be taking place around the LFR campaign.

In time, as more campaigns are added, I'll likely start hosting these monthly threads in RPGA General.

My hope for this thread is to give the admins (regional, global, and RPGA) to have a place they can check in and see what the "issues of the month" are. As such, I'd hope to keep discussion and debate in *this* thread to a minimum.

Hopefully, the questions that land here will be those that have already seen a little debate and discussion, but remain unresolved.

I don't guarantee these threads will generate any immediate answers, but hopefully, at the very least, they can be used to give a quick pointer to where the existing "hot" issues are.

That said, feel free to start posting current ambiguities or concerns you have in the current RPGA rules at hand.
#2

smerwin29

Oct 06, 2008 19:28:01
Thanks Dustin. If I may make one request: please do not ask rules questions here that are strictly 4e D&D rules. Those questions will not be answered by LFR staff, and should be directed toward Customer Support, Sage Advice, or other official WotC channels.

Thanks!

Shawn
LFR Global Admin
#3

_metz_

Oct 06, 2008 22:38:28
How much control does the RPGA have over module format/information?

I have perused some of the writing guidelines and find that in many ways it is restrictive and hinders potential enjoyment, rather than preventing major issues.

I draw particular attention to the requirement of needing every fight to be on battle tiles. What happened to the days of a fight on a ship if we wanted it to be on a ship? (In a recent module, there were just rectangular blocks that said' there is a ship here' - according to that map the ship is not a terrain feature) Are we limited now in our imagination by what tiles we can use? - I get that WoTc wants to promote them but honestly do we need our fights to use them?

Furthermore, I feel it limits the PCs own involvement with fights, either they are all in a dungeon format, or the PCs 'appear' in a 'start zone' - it makes it like a video-game rather than a role-playing game.

Give me a battle grid and whiteboard marker any day. An on a related note, it is important to mention that the time it takes to construct the tiles far exceeds drawing them out in many cases, especially when a LOT of the maps use tiles from numerous sets. (in one case, that set was no longer for sale!!!)
#4

surgebuster

Oct 06, 2008 23:04:13
The tile issue is tied into the D&D Virtual Table, which will be ready uh, any time now. ;)

Some people use the tiles verbatim, while others use the maps as guidelines. DMs discretion, of course.


Joe
#5

AxeMurder0

Oct 07, 2008 4:36:56
Alchemy from the Adventurer's Vault.
Guidelines say the feat is available to players but does not speak of the alchemical items.
#6

rmahrling

Oct 07, 2008 7:00:28
I gm'ed a game this weekend at a local shop - We had two regular and two new RPGA'ers attend.

Everyone enjoyed the tiles, with the exception of the last battle - there were so many tiles it took awhile to setup.

If it takes over 10 tiles, my recommendation is, draw it out

One question I have that is general and not related to 4th Ed. is this. Can we penalize player on the XP side.

I had a player that had already participated in the same module with another character. At the end, he couldn't stand it anymore and insisted the party perform a diplomacy check to convince the townsfolk to depart from their current cult like activities. (Black Knight of Arabel).

With the gig being up, and the other players being none the wiser that he had just given away the punch line, we continued forward with the encounter.

I will go back over RPGA event rules, which seem slightly out of date. Being use to running MTG events, I am also use to a warning system.

Being a long time DM, I am use to taking away experience for this sort of behavior.

Am I bound to award him the same experience as other players? Should I just give him a fair warning not to do it in the future?
#7

Madfox11

Oct 07, 2008 7:21:17
One question I have that is general and not related to 4th Ed. is this. Can we penalize player on the XP side.

As a DM you are in charge of handing out xp, so you could certainly do so. Personally I would be very careful about withholding xp as a form of punishment since it does not work* and it begs the question on whether the behavior should get IC punishment. People prefer different styles of gaming and it is not our place to tell them how to play the game as long as everybody has fun. In your example it becomes even fuzzier. After all, the PC could have thought of it even without the pre-knowledge. The fact that you mention nobody even realized he *might* have used meta-game knowledge is an even bigger clue that it really is not worth the aggrevation of withhelding xp.

* It is actually beneficial to the power of a PC to be withheld xp without withholding gold.

Pieter Sleijpen
RPGA LFR Global Administrator
#8

smerwin29

Oct 07, 2008 8:01:11
How much control does the RPGA have over module format/information?

In terms of how maps are created, those rules have been given to us by WotC.

Shawn
LFR Global Admin
#9

smerwin29

Oct 07, 2008 8:03:12
Alchemy from the Adventurer's Vault.
Guidelines say the feat is available to players but does not speak of the alchemical items.

We expect the updated version of the LFR Character Creation Guidelines to be available by Friday at the latest. In those updated guidelines, we are expecting changes that deal with all of the new content coming out in Dragon and the AV, as well as inclusion of the "Adventuring in the Realms" document in the CCG.

Shawn
LFR Global Admin
#10

josephkell

Oct 08, 2008 0:46:37
Mounts.

The PH and the AV present different costs for Warhorses. Which does the campaign use?
#11

WolfStar76

Oct 08, 2008 14:02:22
Death, Dying, and TPKs

The CCG (and adventure boilerplate) are being debated in the mailing list this month on the topics of dying, ressurection, and TPKs.

At issue is the question of whether or not bodies can be ressurected if the party suffers a TPK.

There are a couple camps - those that indicate you must be able to access the bodies and have access to the ritual to do *any* sort of ressurection, and those that believe you need those requirements for a raise dead, but that the Death Charity clause is active for anyone who wants/needs it.

A clarification from the admins would be helpful, as I can see where the CCG can lend itself to either interpretation. The first (gotta have the body) being the strictest interpretation, and the latter (Charity for all) being the more "wholisitic" view - making use of other RPGA/4E guidelines as part of the interpretation.

I've included (abridged) text from the CCG v1.6 below for reference.

Adventuring can be dangerous business. Your character might succumb to those dangers and die. However, death for your character is usually a temporary situation. If your character dies during RPGA Character Creation RPGA Character Creation Guide Living Forgotten Realms Page 10
the course of the adventure, you and the rest of your group have two options, provided that the groups has access to the Raise Dead ritual (either a PC has it and can use it or the characters return back to civilization), they have access to the body, and it is possible to return your character to life.

  • Pay the component cost for the ritual.
  • Invoke the Death Charity Clause

#12

_metz_

Oct 08, 2008 18:11:47
Can we get a writer's guide regarding story awards?

I understand that there is a limit to 2 story awards per adventure.

Can we ensure that these awards are, for the most part, mutually exclusive? It is very frustrating if you achieve all the story award items but are unable to have them because of an arbitrary decision.

As such I would like to ask that story awards foll the "you get A or B depending on what you did" rather than, you can get A and/or B but you are only allowed one due to RPGA rules path...

Just an idea.
#13

nofearcavalier

Oct 08, 2008 19:32:03
I've searched around trying to find the answer but have come up empty. Will there be any notion of interactives (battle or role-playing) in LFR? Interactives were a major part of the draw for RPGA conventions, at least here in the southeast. I know there are special events like Weekend in the Realms, but I'm hoping for something a little more locally controlled so we get regional flavor. To be honest, I'm disappointed so far at the loss of regional flavor and membership contribution to the campaign compared to LG. I've got some suggestions, but I'll wait until I hear about the current plans before opening a discussion. Thanks!

Brett
#14

_Mithreinmaethor_

Oct 08, 2008 19:43:42
Whether its in a regular LFR mod or an ADP mod are exps awarded at the end of the whole module or can they be awarded after each encounter?

i.e Grognard the Barbarian has 990 exps. He starts MOD X and completes the 1st encounter. could Grognard then level? or does he have to wait until the end of the module?
#15

Madfox11

Oct 09, 2008 5:25:56
Whether its in a regular LFR mod or an ADP mod are exps awarded at the end of the whole module or can they be awarded after each encounter?

Unless detailed differently in the boilerplate text of the adventure (ADAP1-2 for example will be an exception), you should only grant xp at the end of the adventure. The biggest reason for this is that leveling mid-adventure is rather time consuming, and it might raise the level of a character above the maximum allowed for said adventure. Furthermore, there is also the commonly accepted idea that you need some kind of extended rest to level, although, I cannot remember reading any rules in this regard in 4E (but I might have overlooked it).

Can we ensure that these awards are, for the most part, mutually exclusive? It is very frustrating if you achieve all the story award items but are unable to have them because of an arbitrary decision.

The decision to have only two story awards was not arbitrary at the time (and perhaps still not). We do agree that story awards should be mutually exclusive and we will keep more attention to it.

I've searched around trying to find the answer but have come up empty. Will there be any notion of interactives (battle or role-playing) in LFR? Interactives were a major part of the draw for RPGA conventions, at least here in the southeast. I know there are special events like Weekend in the Realms, but I'm hoping for something a little more locally controlled so we get regional flavor. To be honest, I'm disappointed so far at the loss of regional flavor and membership contribution to the campaign compared to LG.

Lets not get into a discussion about the pros and cons of interactives in this sticky thread. There are some very good reasons why we are somewhat leery about the use of interactives. There are definitely NOT going to be LARP-like interactives. We are still discussing battle-interactives and series of mini-missions, but don't get your hopes up. They are time consuming to create, difficult to manage (especially in a setting which WotC prefers to have a good control on what is published) and difficult to run. In regards to the mini-missions, events like Weekend in the Realms are actually reasonably similar to such special events, just on a world wide scale.
#16

szwanger

Oct 10, 2008 8:43:44
Do ritual books and ritual scrolls count towards the limit of found magic items? The CCG implies they don't, but doesn't address the issue explicitly.
#17

Cailte

Oct 10, 2008 11:12:14
Who do we report potential mechanical issues to with modules?


What is the Campaign position on the Horizon Syndicate from "Children of Darkness" in Dragon 367?
#18

dragonstar_the_green

Oct 10, 2008 14:11:18
When reporting adventure questions, will there be an added option of leaving it blank? My players just finished Barrow of the Ogre King, and none of the answers for question 2 fit. I used the answer that was closest (whhivh really was nowhere near), but when the PCs do something so far out of the scope of the adventure (as they often will), I think we need the option to either leave it alone or select "D: None of the Above".
#19

soccerref73

Oct 10, 2008 14:16:10
Greetings...

Do ritual books and ritual scrolls count towards the limit of found magic items? The CCG implies they don't, but doesn't address the issue explicitly.

Ritual books and ritual scrolls (and eventually alchemical formulas and quite possibly other consumables) are not considered found magic items and do not take up one of your found-item slots.
#20

soccerref73

Oct 10, 2008 14:20:10
Greetings...

The PH and the AV present different costs for Warhorses. Which does the campaign use?

Well, technically, you can't buy the mounts out of Adventurer's Vault at all, whereas you have open access to the Player's Handbook. So, I would say that the price in the PH is the "correct" price in the sense that it is the only price that is available under the campaign rules.

With that said, one would hope that at some point WotC will issue errata for either AV or the PH so that the two books have the same price.
#21

soccerref73

Oct 10, 2008 14:25:56
Who do we report potential mechanical issues to with modules?

For a regional adventure, the regional writing director and/or the appropriate global admin; for a core adventure, any of the global admins.

What is the Campaign position on the Horizon Syndicate from "Children of Darkness" in Dragon 367?

We have discussed this a bit, but I don't think we have an official campaign position on it yet. Look for more information regarding "published" organizations like the Horizon Syndicate in the next update to the CCG. (I realize that's not much of an answer, but at the moment, it's the only answer I can give.) For the most part, it's not something that I would consider as having a major impact, since no organization is going to play a role in an adventure unless the author gets permission to use the organization.

I do realize, however, that many folks would like to be able join these sorts of organizations simply as part of their character development regardless of whether or not the org ever shows up in an adventure, and I would not be surprised to find more instances of these kinds of organizations appearing in Dragon Magazine articles, because they are nice bits of flavor. So, we will at some point devise an actual answer to the question of whether and how one goes about joining such organizations.
#22

soccerref73

Oct 10, 2008 14:34:19
Greetings...

When reporting adventure questions, will there be an added option of leaving it blank?

From a database standpoint, I think that's unlikely. Realistically speaking, if your group went down a path that doesn't fit any of the available adventure questions, it's unlikely that your particular outcome will end up being a "majority response" to that question anyway, and the most typical use of adventure questions will be to determine the "official" outcome of events based on which answer gets the most responses.

That doesn't mean that we will always get every single question exactly right in terms of the possible outcomes -- it's entirely likely that there will be instances in which a number of people find that none of the answers to a particular adventure question really captures their experiences. All I can say is that the DM should try to think about what the author really wants to know with a particular question and choose the answer that most accurately represents the outcome your table achieved. In other words, try to imagine what the most likely use of the answer will be -- to decide if a particular NPC should appear in a future adventure, if a particular magic item goes to Group A or Group B, if a particular event had a "happy" or "unhappy" ending, and so forth. I think you'll find in most cases that you can choose an answer that is at least a reasonable approximation of the broad brush strokes even if it is not really representative of the exact details of what happened at your table.

Basically, the adventure questions are intended to help push the next story in a particular direction. By necessity they can't represent all or even most of the nuances of possibility. So, the answer you choose should be the one that would push the next story in the closest direction (of the available choices).
#23

howie23

Oct 10, 2008 18:25:05
I am asking the administrators to consider the following option:

If a character dies and is unable to be raised, that the player have an option to start a new character at the same level as the one who died.

1) This is a common mechanism in home games. It allows for established groups of players to continue playing together instead of breaking up such groups.

2) The alternative may well mean that a player MUST replay adventures, effectively just grinding through the adventures, in order to be able to play unplayed mods at higher levels with the new character. This necessity may take place if the player has already played/judged enough existing 1-4 adventures such that he cannot play enough unplayed adventures to reach 4th level.

3) It eliminates the chance of a player leaving the campaign if unable to continue play at higher levels.

4) This is necessary due to the logistics of the architecture of the campaign regarding the designated level range of adventures.

If this request is not entertained, I would ask that an alternative solution be identified, such as mandating that a character can always be raised through the efforts of NPC friends or the like.

Edit: Please post discussion in the Death and Choices thread in order to keep this thread more managable for the admins.

Thanks.

David
#24

Keith53

Oct 10, 2008 19:40:51
2) The alternative may well mean that a player MUST replay adventures, effectively just grinding through the adventures, in order to be able to play unplayed mods at higher levels with the new character. This necessity may take place if the player has already played/judged enough existing 1-4 adventures such that he cannot play enough unplayed adventures to reach 4th level.
David

David,
You may not be aware but with the adaptable coming out, there are sufficient adventures to play 3 different PCs (at least) to 4/5th level without using the replay option. Your assumption is incorrect.

Keith
#25

howie23

Oct 10, 2008 19:47:07
David,
You may not be aware but with the adaptable coming out, there are sufficient adventures to play 3 different PCs (at least) to 4/5th level without using the replay option. Your assumption is incorrect.

Keith

I'm responding in the Death and Choices discussion thread to keep this thread clean.

David
#26

WolfStar76

Oct 11, 2008 5:13:02
I'm responding in the Death and Choices discussion thread to keep this thread clean.

David

Thank you for that.

For reference: Death and Choices thread
#27

just_be_glad_now

Oct 13, 2008 0:10:12
The Adventurer's Vault has provided something resembling errata for Enchant Magic Item, on page 198. There are now 3 different texts saying how the Enchant Magic Item can be used.

1. PHB text (oldest): Enchant a non-magic item.
2. RPGA-CCG 1.6 (newer): Enchant a non-magic item, or upgrade an item +x to item +x+y
3. Adventurer's Vault (newest): Enchant a non-magic item, upgrade an item +x to item +x+y, or add property to item +x.

Which of these do we use for LFR? Regardless of the answer, please clarify in RPGA-CCG 1.7 so that no one else asks.

Thanks,
Brayden Glad
#28

frupton

Oct 16, 2008 0:37:00
Another Adventuer's Vault question:

The CCG lists as "Masterwork Armor, Weapons, and alchemical feat" as allowed content from the adventurer's vault.

The price of masterwork armor is listed as "special". The text on p.6, para 2, says
Masterwork armor always has an enhancement bonus, and the price of the masterwork armor material is incorporated into the overall cost of the magic armor. For example, +4 crysteel mail armor costs 45,000 gp -- the same as nonmasterwork +4 chain armor. Thus, an adventurer of higher level is generally better off shopping for masterwork armors than the armors he or she used at lower levels.

Questions:

1) A 16th level cleric in LFR with 45,000 gp on hand buys a suit of +4 armor. Can he buy a suit of +4 crysteel mail armor?

2) A 16th level cleric in LFR finds access to a set of +4 armor in an adventure. Can he acquire a suit of +4 crysteel mail armor?

3) A 12th level cleric in LFR finds access to a set of +4 armor in an adventure. Can he acquire a suit of +4 crysteel mail armor?

My understanding of RAW is that the answer to all of these is "yes", but would appreciate confirmation.

Edited to add:

4) A 16th level cleric in LFR currently has a suit of +3 chain armor. Assuming that he can buy a suit of +4 crysteel mail, does he pay the full price, or only the price to upgrade from +3?
#29

TrustTymora

Oct 17, 2008 4:30:53
Question about selling Found Magic Items / Rituals:

You get 1/5 for selling a magic item. Assuming a player wants to burn a found magic item slot they could take
Show
bag of holding from AGAL1-1 and sell it for 200 gold correct?
#30

WolfStar76

Oct 17, 2008 6:18:34
**VCL Transparency Notice**

By request I'm going to be adding a sticky thread about the Scepter Tower of Spellguard here in the LFR forum.

We have a limit of 3 stickies per forum, so this thread is being moved to RPGA General (which is a better fit in the long run anyhow).

I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussions.
#31

TrustTymora

Oct 18, 2008 17:21:50
Question about selling Found Magic Items / Rituals:

You get 1/5 for selling a magic item. Assuming a player wants to burn a found magic item slot they could take
Show
bag of holding from AGAL1-1 and sell it for 200 gold correct?
#32

WolfStar76

Oct 18, 2008 19:07:22
Is this the wrong forum for these questions? Is this an allowed loop hole for getting more gold than the 50gp option - as shown for the AKAN1-1 mod?

Thanks.

You'd come out ahead in gold, but you'd be behind in Found Item Slots - since you can never fill that slot with anything else.

I see nothing else barring that action.
#33

TrustTymora

Oct 19, 2008 0:18:12
You'd come out ahead in gold, but you'd be behind in Found Item Slots - since you can never fill that slot with anything else.

I see nothing else barring that action.

Rituals and potions don't take up slots. That means select the ritual and sell it for 330gp no slot wasted. Or am I not understanding something?
#34

WolfStar76

Oct 19, 2008 3:27:38
Rituals and potions don't take up slots. That means select the ritual and sell it for 330gp no slot wasted. Or am I not understanding something?

No, I was the one who was confused - I'd forgotten we were discussing a ritual instead of a magic item. Blame my 7-day-a-week work schedule. I retract my answer.
#35

TrustTymora

Oct 19, 2008 11:59:46
So what I'm trying to get at is that unless the Ritual is 100gp or less if the player doesn't want a 'Found Magic Item' then they will always select the ritual and sell it instead of taking the 50gp gold option.

I bring it up for Admin consideration simply because a simple rule that stated "there is no resale value for rituals as there is no demand for them - this overrides the PHB rule of 'limited demand' " may be what is intended for the LFR campaign and needs to be added to the Character Creation appendix part for LFR.
#36

Madfox11

Oct 20, 2008 4:20:29
Items are sold for 20% of the market price value, so you actually need more than a 250 gp ritual for it to be worth it at low level. Considering we cannot provide more then 100 gp in rituals in one treasure bundle at low-level 1-4(check the writer's guidelines), a treasure bundle with rituals could NEVER be more valuable then the gold option.

Pieter Sleijpen
RPGA LFR Global Administrator
#37

Keith53

Oct 20, 2008 7:43:24
Actually, the ritual offered as treasure in AKAN1-1 did not comply with the LFR Writers' Guidelines; it was an error by the administrators.

Per page 299 of the PH, one may sell ritual scrolls or books for half market value, which so long as we follow the writers guidelines, exactly corresponds to the amount of the more gold option. So if you pick up a 150 gp market value ritual book playing up and sell it for the 75 gp, or choose 75 gp, same difference.

Granted if you played low, and the 150 gp market value book was offered in the general treasure bundles, you could gain an additional 25 gp doing that choice. Not a big deal.

Keith
#38

Cailte

Oct 20, 2008 7:53:20
What will happen when Martial Power (etc) comes out in terms of access to the new content?

For example, say I currently have a Ranger, and I'd like to use the Beastmaster option in place of the original TWF or Archer builds - will I have to abandon my current character to access the Beastmaster stuff or will I be allowed to change the character appropriately?

(Not everyone has time to have multiple characters, some folks get to play once every couple of months for example.)
#39

TrustTymora

Oct 20, 2008 9:12:55
Actually, the ritual offered as treasure in AKAN1-1 did not comply with the LFR Writers' Guidelines; it was an error by the administrators.

Per page 299 of the PH, one may sell ritual scrolls or books for half market value, which so long as we follow the writers guidelines, exactly corresponds to the amount of the more gold option. So if you pick up a 150 gp market value ritual book playing up and sell it for the 75 gp, or choose 75 gp, same difference.

Granted if you played low, and the 150 gp market value book was offered in the general treasure bundles, you could gain an additional 25 gp doing that choice. Not a big deal.

Keith

Okay, so we shouldn't see this in future modules because the writers guideline ensures that the rituals offered will be in line. The AKAN1-1 treasure is an anomaly - correct? Nothing official stops the player from doing this in AKAN1-1 however - correct?
#40

TrustTymora

Oct 20, 2008 9:18:12
Items are sold for 20% of the market price value, so you actually need more than a 250 gp ritual for it to be worth it at low level. Considering we cannot provide more then 100 gp in rituals in one treasure bundle at low-level 1-4(check the writer's guidelines), a treasure bundle with rituals could NEVER be more valuable then the gold option.

Pieter Sleijpen
RPGA LFR Global Administrator

Yes "Magic Items" are 20%. My concern is to p.299 PHB and Rituals:
SELLING RITUAL BOOKS
OR SCROLLS
You can sell ritual books or ritual scrolls for half the market
price of the rituals they contain
, assuming that the DM
agrees that demand for a particular ritual exists. Although
you can try to sell copies of a ritual you know, doing so
offers no financial gain, and there is limited demand for
ritual books or scrolls. You pay the full cost to create a
scroll and can typically sell it for only half value. In addition,
the number of people in the world who can afford to
perform an expensive ritual and who can succeed on the
necessary skill checks is small, and many of the NPCs who
are skilled enough and wealthy enough to be potential
customers already have collections of ritual books available
to them.

#41

soccerref73

Oct 22, 2008 11:47:47
1) A 16th level cleric in LFR with 45,000 gp on hand buys a suit of +4 armor. Can he buy a suit of +4 crysteel mail armor?

2) A 16th level cleric in LFR finds access to a set of +4 armor in an adventure. Can he acquire a suit of +4 crysteel mail armor?

3) A 12th level cleric in LFR finds access to a set of +4 armor in an adventure. Can he acquire a suit of +4 crysteel mail armor?

4) A 16th level cleric in LFR currently has a suit of +3 chain armor. Assuming that he can buy a suit of +4 crysteel mail, does he pay the full price, or only the price to upgrade from +3?

(1) Yes
(2) Yes
(3) Yes
(4) He only pays the upgrade price and may choose any legal masterwork material (based on the new enhancement bonus) as part of the upgrade.

The question I do not know the answer to (but I have asked for clarification) is what happens if you already have a suit of masterwork armor and you want to upgrade the enhancement bonus. In the example above, suppose a character owns a suit of +4 crysteel mail armor and is ready to upgrade the enhancement bonus to +5. Does it have to remain crysteel, or can the player choose a different masterwork material appropriate to the new, higher enhancement bonus (such as weavemail in this example)?

The upgrade question is fairly important since the base properties of the higher-level masterwork armors also include higher base AC bonuses, but I can't find anything in the PH or Adventurer's Vault that answers this. If anyone knows of a reference, please let me know.

It would seem to me that once you choose the type of material that a suit of armor is made from, that ought to be locked down (the same way you can't change a suit of scale mail into a suit of plate mail once you decide to buy or find it as scale mail) but the rules do seem to assume that the PCs will automatically have masterwork armor when they reach the appropriate level for a particular enhancement bonus (otherwise masterwork armor would cost more than non-masterwork armor).
#42

siliconrose

Oct 23, 2008 16:34:48
This is perhaps a bit of a whacked out question:

If I use an access slot to get access to a magic item from, say, the Adventurer's Vault, could I then purchase two of that item if I wanted to?

Second:

What's table etiquette with bringing a character with a creation card (or perhaps even a playtest character) to a table? I'd imagine it's "inform the DM before play starts", but I'd also rather not be a bother if it's not necessary.
#43

WolfStar76

Oct 23, 2008 16:46:13
This is perhaps a bit of a whacked out question:

If I use an access slot to get access to a magic item from, say, the Adventurer's Vault, could I then purchase two of that item if I wanted to?

I'd think so, if you've the gold to spend.

I don't think *most* magic items have effects that would stack with themselves, however. Unless you wanted to hand an item temproarily to a party member for the use in a single adventure.

Second:

What's table etiquette with bringing a character with a creation card (or perhaps even a playtest character) to a table? I'd imagine it's "inform the DM before play starts", but I'd also rather not be a bother if it's not necessary.

Officially, I think you're supposed to prove you've got the cards in your cardstack, period.

In practice, your GM will probably overhear you when you explain your class/race to your party. It's seldom that they'll ask you to prove you have the card, but it's best to have it with you just in case. Not having it could require you to play another character.
#44

siliconrose

Oct 23, 2008 17:03:18
My shadar-kai, definitely, the DM and the players will find out during the introduction. However, the spellscar for my drow rogue won't be so obvious, and she certainly wouldn't tell the party unless she had to.

I might write up a little sheet for the DM with the two spellscarred features from the FRPG. They definitely need to know about the ability to sense the Spellplague, even if it's not that likely to come up in the average adventure. Handing that over would get the point across. ^^

I definitely plan to keep my Creation cards on me at all times. Sadly, I don't have any others yet. ^^
#45

kinevon

Oct 24, 2008 0:34:54
Okay, it looks like the whole access slot thing has disappeared, since the new advancement form does not have those lines anymore, I don't see teh reference in the LFR section of the guide, and it appears that magic items from Dragon, AV, etc, are all now normally legal items.

Is that correct?

So, now, you get up to your level in number of found/rewarded magic items, which can be of any level offered, but only usable if within your level+4 range; and any number of other, affordable magic items, usually only up to your level (although there seems to be the possibility of something, whether a card or a story award, that might offer an option to exceed your level in certain circumstances).
#46

Keith53

Oct 24, 2008 6:23:37
Yes, the whole access list was dropped as too confusing and complex for players and it was difficult to implement for the on-line character tracker.

So if you are of sufficient level and have the GP, you can just buy a magic item or whatever out of AV.

Keith
#47

pedr

Oct 26, 2008 17:34:52
Does the listing of "Any" on page 2 of the CCG indicate that all content except for explicitly disallowed content is available in LFR? Or does the wording on page 8 which only refers to magic items and rituals/formulas imply that other items (particularly mundane items, vehicles, mounts etc) are not available in LFR?
#48

WolfStar76

Oct 27, 2008 10:12:35
Does the listing of "Any" on page 2 of the CCG indicate that all content except for explicitly disallowed content is available in LFR? Or does the wording on page 8 which only refers to magic items and rituals/formulas imply that other items (particularly mundane items, vehicles, mounts etc) are not available in LFR?

Anything in the AV that isn't explicitly denied by another rule is now available if you have the money/level(s) to purchase it.
#49

pedr

Oct 27, 2008 14:25:04
Anything in the AV that isn't explicitly denied by another rule is now available if you have the money/level(s) to purchase it.

This is how I'd interpret things. I saw a post by one of our regional admins which argued that the page 8 wording took precedence, so I thought I'd ask here to see if we can get a consensus/official interpretation.
#50

WolfStar76

Oct 27, 2008 14:41:17
This is how I'd interpret things. I saw a post by one of our regional admins which argued that the page 8 wording took precedence, so I thought I'd ask here to see if we can get a consensus/official interpretation.

Hmm. I guess I can see it either way.

The troubling sentance is "Other items are restricted resources, meaning
that you need to gain access to the item to purchase it, even if you are of the same level as the item."

This sentance appears to be a holdover from the less-clear definition of what is/isn't a player resource.

I *think* it's meant to read that anything not in a player resource (IE - from a book not on the list, from an unfinished Dragon magazine, from the Compendium, etc) cannot be purchased unless you have access (via a story award/from found treasure/etc.

That said, I'm not an admin, so their ruling over-rides my interpretation. My interpretation is that "restricted resources" means books not on the list.
#51

_Mithreinmaethor_

Oct 27, 2008 15:09:18
What will happen when Martial Power (etc) comes out in terms of access to the new content?

For example, say I currently have a Ranger, and I'd like to use the Beastmaster option in place of the original TWF or Archer builds - will I have to abandon my current character to access the Beastmaster stuff or will I be allowed to change the character appropriately?

(Not everyone has time to have multiple characters, some folks get to play once every couple of months for example.)

Unfortunately yes. Those are class features that are not able to be retrained by the retraining rules. We have several people locally that are waiting for the books release before they make any new characters for that exact point.

I know this wont make you happy but its the way the rules work. Every Rogue/Ranger/Fighter and Warlord out there will be in the same boat when they see all the shiny new stuff in the book.
#52

gamersgambit

Oct 27, 2008 15:49:25
You know, in that particular case, I've very little trouble completely ignoring the rules. With a new edition, and a new level of DM empowerment, and as a senior GM, as well as seeing no potential for abuse, changing a class "feature choice" based on newly available and legal information doesn't strike me as anything strange or out of the ordinary. It's certainly not abusive. The player would still need to do so as a *RETRAINING* slot, in my opinion; along with any powers from a new book he/she would want to retrain as well.
#53

_Mithreinmaethor_

Oct 27, 2008 15:58:58
Unfortunately GM empowerment means little in an organized Living campaign like LFR. So sure you can break the rules as you see fit of course but if you get called on it at a convention etc and have the possibility of losing your character is it worth it? Or any of the other penalties?

This problem came was the same problem they had in 3.5 and they did not allow you to do so then, so I dont expect to see them do so now either.
#54

Keith53

Oct 27, 2008 17:49:02
Does the listing of "Any" on page 2 of the CCG indicate that all content except for explicitly disallowed content is available in LFR?

Yes, the general rule is what is stated on pages 1-3, unless an explicit change is cited in the campaign specific appendix.

Or does the wording on page 8 which only refers to magic items and rituals/formulas imply that other items (particularly mundane items, vehicles, mounts etc) are not available in LFR?

There is some uncertainty among admins, to be sure, but frankly the wording of the third bullet paragraph on page 8 deals exclusively with magic items, rituals and formulas as written. Some of the wording may be obsolete now, but hard to know what new books might be allowed in total or partially.

There is a question being put to WotC as to their intention on sale of actual alchemical items (versus sale of formulas and usage of the alchemy feat) in AV. We are awaiting a response (or errata).

Keith
#55

szwanger

Oct 31, 2008 14:59:38
You know, in that particular case, I've very little trouble completely ignoring the rules.

Unfortunately, it won't be you, as a Senior DM, paying the price for breaking the rules, but your players. When they go to an event somewhere else with a Beastmaster ranger who started play in October, they'll likely be yelled at, accused of cheating, maybe even ejected from the table, and certainly forced to change to a different character, even if they have to make a new one on the spot.

Then when they come back to your events, they'll be confused and angry. Maybe they'll stop playing at your events because they're upset that you misled them or because they don't understand why the rules change from one location to another.

So it isn't fair to your players for you to arbitrarily decide which rules to follow. In a home game, of course, it would be different.
#56

Keith53

Oct 31, 2008 17:02:36
DM empowerment is for the table or session DM to have flexibility in running the adventure, not to have the power to ignore portions of RPGA or LFR rules.

If the situation involves what happens in an adventure (do the bad guys fight or talk or run or surrender), the DM can decide. Hopefully he will consider what the author suggests, but ultimately he decides.

If the situation involves character traits or stuff that persists in the campaign, no, the table DM does not get to decide if you want to stay LFR legal. As was noted, the next table DM may well disagree and now the player could be reported for not complying with campaign rule. (worst case)

Keith
#57

WolfStar76

Nov 01, 2008 6:25:19
And with a new month, a new thread is being created. This post will be unstuck shortly.
#58

mdonais

Nov 02, 2008 1:28:31
Does the listing of "Any" on page 2 of the CCG indicate that all content except for explicitly disallowed content is available in LFR? Or does the wording on page 8 which only refers to magic items and rituals/formulas imply that other items (particularly mundane items, vehicles, mounts etc) are not available in LFR?

The intention is to allow everything from the resources that list ALL.

If a magic or mundane item appeared in a non-player resource, such as an adventure then you would not be granted access to that item without a specific card that grants you access.

So you can buy a non-magical Great Spear even though it is not specifically mentioned in the third bullet point of page 8.

--
Mike.