Yup!
As a VCL I have some limited ability to give away the occasional Custom Titles, but because I've still got a devious streak of old-school DM in me, I figured I'm going to make you puppets dance for me a bit first.
So, what's this contest I have in mind? Simple! Just kill this thread. This one, right here. The one you're reading.
How do you do that? Make a post and if there are no replies within 24 hours - you win!
What's at stake here? Your very own Custom Title!
For this particular contest I'm currently offering up your choice of the following:
A) Conversation Stopper
B) Fool of Win
So, rules!
- I make the rules. I am judge, jury, and executioner for this contest.
- Play nice. This is a foolish little contest, the Code of Conduct still applies.
- If this
experiementcontest goes off the rails and gets shut down by the Orcs (or if I'm forced to pull the plug) nobody wins - The rules are subject to change at any time
- Converse freely amongst yourselves - if you need a conversation starter, I'm taking suggestions on other titles to add to the prize pool.
- Unplanned server outages probably won't count. If WotC's forums are offline for a week, you don't win by default.
- I make and adjudicate all the rules, as per #1. I reserve the right to contradict myself
- My posts don't count - and I probably won't allow other VCLs to win either.
- I'm not opposed to bribery
- You're seriously still reading this? Shouldn't you be posting to win now?
Go forth, minions, and make me proud!
[EDIT]
I have in mind a date at which I'll be ending this contest. No, I haven't announced when this will be, nor how I will end it (nor how this will affect someone winning).
The only hint I'm prepared to give at this time is to remember rule #4.
[BETtER EdIT]
ThIS UnIT CaLLs LIGHtNING rOUND.
ThREAD DIeS in 60 MINuTeS. NoT 24-HoURs.
I said it so therefore it must be true.
Nyah.
-karma
How exactly did you manage to get ten rules out of that?
S'called covering ALL your bases.
S'called covering ALL your bases.
All your base are belong to Dustin?
Let me tell you about my 30th level drow ranger...he dual-wields scimitars, but he's TOTALLY different from Drizzt....
I think I saw your character in UO, DAOC, EQ, EQ2, WOW, LOTR, WAR, LMNOPQ, man he gets around.
I think I saw your character in UO, DAOC, EQ, EQ2, WOW, LOTR, WAR, LMNOPQ, man he gets around.
The funniest part is, I've seen him in Facebook's Tiny Adventures too.
[EDITED to thwart Uthrac, below]
But. . . I can't win. . . .
It's going to be tough to kill this thread if you keep posting . . .
What kind of PC would Hitler have played?
OK... so... how is this not "competitive SLFRT"?
I hadn't really thought of it that way.
Hmmm. . . . maybe I should give m an Honorable Mention. . .
I was thinking of it as more a forum-based derivitive of "The Game" (which you just lost, by the way).
Now, anyone have any good (note: Good!) suggestions on the role playing background for my Spellscarred Warforged Dhampyr Cleric of Kelemvor from Impiltur?
"I am created Radiant, the Undead Destroyer. Living Construct, the shatterer of Vampires. Fear me, for I wield a mean pun. Come, join me or (and?) take your punishment! Bwahahahaha!"
Incarnate Construct Stone Golem, Cleric of Lastai (The Goddess of Pleasure). I call him Hugh.
How do you do that? Make a post and if there are no replies within 24 hours - you win!
Wait, I am unclear on the rules. Per RAW above, does this mean that everyone who posts ever will receive a response if and when there are no posts for 24 hours? Or, should we go with RAI, where it seems that you mean to award just the last post(er) to which there is no reply? Does DME cover this? Can I hold one post in each hand and use them simultaneously to kill minions when I curse? Does that invalidate the need for a 24-hour time period? And, do summoned posts flank?
Go forth, minions, and make me proud!
Minionion #1 reporting for duty!
Wait, I am unclear on the rules. Per RAW above, does this mean that everyone who posts ever will receive a response if and when there are no posts for 24 hours? Or, should we go with RAI, where it seems that you mean to award just the last post(er) to which there is no reply? Does DME cover this? Can I hold one post in each hand and use them simultaneously to kill minions when I curse? Does that invalidate the need for a 24-hour time period? And, do summoned posts flank?
And see - THAT is why I'm the sole judge/rules lawyer/jury/executioner of this contest. I can safely go with RAI, and nobody can complain.
Well. . . okay, you can complain - nobody important will care.
Minionion #1 reporting for duty!
I had to read that a couple times to get it.
Bad Don! No cookie!
Can we add a level of difficulty to provide more of a challenge for the more l337 posters?
Or maybe more Moderator Empowerment?
Congrats Wolf! :D
1. Insert strawman argument.
2. Start an edition war.
3. Reference Hitler.
4. Profit!
-SYB
I'm using DME to change the rules so that the FIRST poster, and not the last, wins the contest.
Woo-Hoo! I win!
All your base are belong to Dustin?
Currently Playing Valkyria Chronicles.
After Winning a map, when the Main Character says: "We captured the enemy base" all I can think of is that he should, at some point during story mode, say "All their base are belong to us."
If only because it'll make me laugh too much.
-SYB
:invasion:It is a profession.
And I think people can earn a degree in it online . . .
And I think people can earn a degree in it online . . .
I got mine at Kaplan Institute of Managerial Harassment. You can, too. Just go to www... :P
-SYB
My living cleric of Kelemvor casts undead to death and kills this thread!
That's OK, I took some levels in Thread Necromancer.
*Raise Dead Thread*
That's OK, I took some levels in Thread Necromancer.
*Raise Dead Thread*
This is 4e. You can't just dip into a class like that. You have to take or spend a feat on it. Sorry, you are stuck with the class now.
-SYB
He can retrain out of the feat the next time he levels. :D
*shakes head* Classic powergaming.
-SYB
I think this contest is too easy. Discuss.
I don't see how there will ever be a winner. This contest is impossible to win.
I think this contest is too easy. Discuss.
It's entirely possible.
Sanity is not strong on these forums, and this is an insane contest.
It'll only stop when EVERYONE forgets about it, or when WolfStar Locks it, as I'm sure SOMEONE has this topic on their list of favorites.
There.
There.
Wait, don't close it yet...
Okay, now you can close it.
Why do female dragonborn have breasts?
Why would a warforge care?
"I'm not dead yet!"
Still, I am a forgiving person. I forgive your previous transgressions. Now, just think quietly on what I've said here for about 30 hours. After that, feel free to post with your thoughts on the topic.
-SYB
If an elf leave Netheril walking at six squares every six seconds and a dwarf leaves Waterdeep at the same time walking five squares every six seconds where do they meet and how long does it take? Show your work.
Updated to 4E for ya. ;)
And which location in Waterdeep?
And do they start on the exact same round?
And will initiative count?
How often do they accrue action points?
You all seem to fail to understand how this is supposed to work. I am supposed to post. Then the rest of you are supposed to NOT post for at least 24 hours. Then I am supposed to win. Simple rules. I can't figure out how you keep messing it up.
Still, I am a forgiving person. I forgive your previous transgressions. Now, just think quietly on what I've said here for about 30 hours. After that, feel free to post with your thoughts on the topic.
-SYB
Cool, I totally understand now.
An specific location in Netheril?
And which location in Waterdeep?
And do they start on the exact same round?
And will initiative count?
How often do they accrue action points?
Yes.
No.
pg. 42
pg. 277
African or European?
I hope those answers help.
-SYB
The chalice with the palace is the brew that is true...
Beer
+1
I hope Wolfstar understands that this type of thread really never dies, so this contest will go on forever until LFR dies.
True, the one on the Living Go boards has been running for a couple of thousand years with no winner.
I hope Wolfstar understands that this type of thread really never dies, so this contest will go on forever until LFR dies.
Oh, don't worry. I have ideas in mind should this go on so long that it becomes pointless. I don't expect to be bored with this thread for at LEAST a month, however.
And besides - the death of LFR won't be the end of it. There's a reason this is in RPGA General.
It's one of the reasons I reserve the right to change the rules at any time.
-SYB
Don't worry. It will end this weekend when I secretly sneak into all of your houses and cut off your internet access. :D
-SYB
The people who pirate wireless shall rule the world... (not me, for the record... leave my router alone, you maniac!)
The people who pirate wireless shall rule the world... (not me, for the record... leave my router alone, you maniac!)
Maniac? Was Ghengis Khan a maniac? Was Ming the Merciless a maniac? Was O.J Simpson a maniac?
-SYB
Don't worry. It will end this weekend when I secretly sneak into all of your houses and cut off your internet access. :D
-SYB
*finishes setting up traps.*
Granted, I use wireles to access when I'm on these forums.
But you're Welcome to try.
I just hope you weren't attached to your character.
And WolfStar: You're a bit of a smart aleck, aren't you?
:P
Rocks fall. The thread dies.
Actually, the rock fall was just a way of shoehorning in the requisite skill challenge. Those of us with high Athletics and Endurance will be fine. Everyone else can just roll assists.
And WolfStar: You're a bit of a smart aleck, aren't you?
I prefer the term "Evil Genius"
-SYB
This thread reminds me of the cards that say: How do you keep an idiot occupied for hours? Turn card over for answer.
-SYB
I wouldn't put it past the resident VCL/Evil Genuis...
I bet that this is just for him to get some perverse entertainment while he's working.
Apropos of nothing, nothing is apropos...
I had an apropos once. Doctor said if I didn't scratch it it would just fall off and it did.
... too quiet.
...
..
Boo!
-SYB
-SYB
Woot! I got 24 hours! I've won the contest, no reason for anyone else to post anymore.
Well, that's it. This contest is officially too high-pressure. People are starting to crack.
-SYB
Braaaaains!!!!!!
Ok, I don't want to panic anyone but this thread has an infestation of zombies. Only one way to get rid of them, everyone leave the thread for 48 hours and they should all be dead when we come back. Just back away from the reply button and nobody else has to be turned into mindless bickering petty rules lawyering non-faq reading zombies. Just go to other threads, this is really for your own good.
Yeah, that reply button is dangerous.
-SYB
Yeah, that reply button is dangerous.
-SYB
That's why I like the undead Quote button. ::nod:: :evillaugh
That's why I like the undead Quote button. ::nod:: :evillaugh
Hallelujah!
-SYB
When do we want them? Braaains.
-SYB
-SYB
take one down, thrash it around,
98 kobalds with spears on the wall...
Murmuring chorus: Cthulhu wheats, Cthulhu wheats...
In the city, the floating city, Cthulhu wakes tonight...
Show
Too many years, too few notes, wish I could remember the whole thing...
In the city, the sunken city, Cthulhu sleeps tonight....
Murmuring chorus: Cthulhu wheats, Cthulhu wheats...
In the city, the floating city, Cthulhu wakes tonight...
Curse you Kinevon, I will be going Aweeemaway Aweeeemaway all morning now.
Curse you Kinevon, I will be going Aweeemaway Aweeeemaway all morning now.
Bwhahahaha! :evillaugh
:heehee Well, too many people out for training schedule changes today, so I didn't even try to get my co-worker to break out Bwehahaha!, but even MunchkinQuest was too much to process.
Heck, the day was so bad, even Fluxx 4.0 was too hard to deal with.
Then again, I think we gave up on a game of Family Fluxx.
And, of course, I got a call with 20 seconds to go to end of shift. Oy.
:rolleye2: 
:raincloud 
:thumbsdow 
Seriously?! Firefox has no problem with the word emoticon, but tells me that teleport is spelled incorrectly? Sometimes I just want to curl up next to my linguistics diploma and cry.
-SYB
That much emoticon-ism hurts my brain.
Seriously?! Firefox has no problem with the word emoticon, but tells me that teleport is spelled incorrectly? Sometimes I just want to curl up next to my linguistics diploma and cry.
-SYB
Linguistics?
Wow, and I thought my friend with the English degree was shooiting low.
(kidding.)
-SYB
Really? Out of curiosity, which ones?
-SYB
My English Major buddy works for Target.
Fairly high on the food chain, but he's still on the floor.
-SYB
Really? Out of curiosity, which ones?
Well, he wound up working for a regional Multiple Listing Service (an organization that lets realtors share listings from company to company), and worked his way up to being a director of that organization. Then, he went back to school, got his law degree, and built a practice around consulting for real-estate firms. Now, he's looking at going back to get a PhD.
Ah, yes. Linguistics Degree. Four years spent learning better ways to say, "Would you like fries with that?"
-SYB
Sorry, I think my older brother cops it. English major, in Shakespearean Literature.
He wound up going back to college, and having to take make-up Sciences classes, to become an MD.
Then again, IIRC (who knows? He is almost a decade older than I am), he kept retaking the SATs because he was unsatisfied with anything less than double 800s....
-SYB
Babbling keeps the thread going, and keeps resetting the 24-hour clock. :D
And I want to be the last one to reset it.
So, everyone: STOP POSTING! ;)
And I want to be the last one to reset it.
So, everyone: STOP POSTING! ;)
Okay. You first.
-SYB
Okay. You first.
-SYB
Non, non, mon cher SYB, apres vous.
Non, non, mon cher SYB, apres vous.
I'll decide for the both of you, I'll go, for I am full of win!
Non, non, mon cher SYB, apres vous.
Did I just get called "My love" by a frenchman?
-SYB
Did I just get called "My love" by a frenchman?
-SYB
Apparently.
Could have been worse.
Could've been a male Bugbear.
Could've been a male Bugbear.
Yeah, them Bugbear Stranglers have a special attack. Owchies.
I will not reply to you post
-SYB
I didn't.
-SYB
*facepalm*
Did I just get called "My love" by a frenchman?
-SYB
Sigh. No.
What are they teaching in schools these days?
"After you, my dear Alphonse."
"No, no, after you, my dear Gaston."
Repeat and rinse, ad infinitum.
So much for classical allusions...
Plus, everyone should be working on this instead.
"After you, my dear Alphonse."
"No, no, after you, my dear Gaston."
Repeat and rinse, ad infinitum.
So much for classical allusions...
I prefer this classic:
"There's something you don't see every day, Chauncey."
"What's that, Edgar?"
"Ray, when someone asks if you are a God, you say YES!"
-SYB
"Lay on, MacDuff. And damned be him who first cries, "Hold! Enough!""
I prefer this classic:
"Ray, when someone asks if you are a God, you say YES!"
But he still isn't a valid choice for deity in LFR.
But he still isn't a valid choice for deity in LFR.
Can I worship Mumra, the Ever Living instead?
-SYB
Can I worship Mumra, the Ever Living instead?
-SYB
Nope, the only exception to the official FR gods list is of course Tinky-Winky, who is usually just classed as an alternate form of Tempus.
Nope, the only exception to the official FR gods list is of course Tinky-Winky, who is usually just classed as an alternate form of Tempus.
There's a thought.
A teletubby as a God of War.
Sounds like Robot Chicken.
There's a thought.
A teletubby as a God of War.
Sounds like Robot Chicken.
Silly boy, chickens aren't robots. They are aliens.
-SYB
"Life, don't talk to me about life."
Quoting Vogun poetry as a Cleric of Marvin gives your opponents a -2 to AC, as they cower in agony, trying to cover their ears.
Unfortunately, your allies, unless they also worship Marvin, are at -2 to hit, as they try to cover their ears in agony, too.
Die! Die! Why won't you DIE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??
This thread has Divine Miracle and a 30 in its primary attribute.
-SYB
This thread has Divine Miracle and a 30 in its primary attribute.
-SYB
It's also a Warforged, so we need to give it a CDG to actually kill it.
*CDGs Thread.*
There.
clem: Here's one.
The Dead Collector: That'll be ninepence.
The Thread: I'm not dead.
The Dead Collector: What?
clem: Nothing. There's your ninepence.
The Thread: I'm not dead.
Quoting Vogun poetry as a Cleric of Marvin gives your opponents a -2 to AC, as they cower in agony, trying to cover their ears.
Unfortunately, your allies, unless they also worship Marvin, are at -2 to hit, as they try to cover their ears in agony, too.
Woo, new bard concept!
-SYB
Magic and mystery are part of their history...
-SYB
Now I've got Rainbow in the Dark running through my head.
Take it back, take it BACK!!!!
Now I've got Rainbow in the Dark running through my head.
Take it back, take it BACK!!!!
Is that better or worse than having "It's a small world" running through your head.
Gah. Almost got myself with that one.
Is that better or worse than having "It's a small world" running through your head.
Gah. Almost got myself with that one.
Darn you to heck, kinevon!
Now I must retaliate...
You are the Dancing Queen, young and sweet, only seventeen
Dancing Queen, feel the beat from the tambourine
You can dance, you can jive, having the time of your life
See that girl, watch that scene, dig in the Dancing Queen
Now I've got Rainbow in the Dark running through my head.
Take it back, take it BACK!!!!
Why don't you have the Gummi Bears theme song running through your head?
-SYB
Is that better or worse than having "It's a small world" running through your head.
Gah. Almost got myself with that one.
It's a world of Dhampyrs, a world of Warforged,
It's a world of Eladrin, a world of Dragonborn.
There's so much that is new
that it's time were we concede
it's the New Realms afterall.
It's the New Realms afterall
It's the New Realms afterall
It's the New Realms afterall
It's the New, New Realms!
Oh Mystra's dead and the worlds reshaped
so much has changed and few have escaped.
Though the names the same
the designers had no shame and
it's the New Realms afterall!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There, that's my revenge for the whole Aweeeeema Away thing Kinevon.
-SYB
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
We spend our time at WOTC
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
WOTC took the money players spent on the DMG
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
They've just revealed the final Cylon
and Battlestar Galatica is almost done.
This song keeps repeating so everyone can sing along
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
We spend our time at WOTC
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
WOTC took the money players spent on the DMG
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
They've just revealed the final Cylon
and Battlestar Galatica is almost done.
This song keeps repeating so everyone can sing along
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
We spend our time at WOTC
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
WOTC took the money players spent on the DMG
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
They've just revealed the final Cylon
and Battlestar Galatica is almost done.
This song keeps repeating so everyone can sing along
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
We spend our time at WOTC
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
WOTC took the money players spent on the DMG
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
They've just revealed the final Cylon
and Battlestar Galatica is almost done.
This song keeps repeating so everyone can sing along
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
We spend our time at WOTC
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
WOTC took the money players spent on the DMG
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
They've just revealed the final Cylon
and Battlestar Galatica is almost done.
This song keeps repeating so everyone can sing along
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
We spend our time at WOTC
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
WOTC took the money players spent on the DMG
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
They've just revealed the final Cylon
and Battlestar Galatica is almost done.
This song keeps repeating so everyone can sing along
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
We spend our time at WOTC
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
WOTC took the money players spent on the DMG
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
They've just revealed the final Cylon
and Battlestar Galatica is almost done.
This song keeps repeating so everyone can sing along
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
We spend our time at WOTC
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
WOTC took the money players spent on the DMG
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
They've just revealed the final Cylon
and Battlestar Galatica is almost done.
This song keeps repeating so everyone can sing along
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
We spend our time at WOTC
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
WOTC took the money players spent on the DMG
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
They've just revealed the final Cylon
and Battlestar Galatica is almost done.
This song keeps repeating so everyone can sing along
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
We spend our time at WOTC
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
WOTC took the money players spent on the DMG
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
They've just revealed the final Cylon
and Battlestar Galatica is almost done.
This song keeps repeating so everyone can sing along
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
We spend our time at WOTC
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
WOTC took the money players spent on the DMG
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
They've just revealed the final Cylon
and Battlestar Galatica is almost done.
This song keeps repeating so everyone can sing along
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
We spend our time at WOTC
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
Would you like a DDI subscription
WOTC took the money players spent on the DMG
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
Splat books are dead
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
They've just revealed the final Cylon
and Battlestar Galatica is almost done.
:invasion:
I had the strangest urge to quote your entire post and add "Me too!"
I had the strangest urge to quote your entire post and add "Me too!"
I DO know where to find you, sir.
I had the strangest urge to quote your entire post and add "Me too!"
I actually wanted it to be much longer but that's the maximum length.
I actually wanted it to be much longer but that's the maximum length.
Thank WotC for small favors.
-SYB
G'nite everybody!
-Matt
But I think we have seriously irritated the reining Priests of Kelemvor, since this thread probably will live past its time and never die a natural death.
Mini-SLFRT/STT
I also know how I'll improve this contest in future iterations, should we decide we want to try this again.
Unplanned outages do NOT count. Planned outages, however. . .
So it's a flurry of posting right up until the planned outage hits? Heh.
Out... Age!
Out... Age!
Out... Age!
More (or less ;) ) seriously, how would you build Sherlock Holmes as a D&D character?
Out... Age!
Out... Age!
Out... Age!
More (or less ;) ) seriously, how would you build Sherlock Holmes as a D&D character?
If you're using 3.5: Urban Ranger Variant.
Animal Companion is a Middle-Aged Human Healer, last Name, Watson.
And if Splatbooks are dead, how come I have a copy of Martial Power sitting next to my PHB?
What is it, if not a Splat Book? (Power book = Subset of Splatbook.)
More (or less ;) ) seriously, how would you build Sherlock Holmes as a D&D character?
Not sure, but I bet someone's statted him up for Call of Cthulhu.
Bitter much?
-SYB
Nope, but earworms deserve each other. I like the new Realms a lot, no complaints from me!
-SYB
Somebody posted "bad touch" on this thread? I am surprised. We seem to have kept it pretty tame. Weird, but tame.
If you look up at Vamroc's...well, whatever it is...a certain line, referring to onanism, was removed. All 24 occurences of it.
-SYB
If you look up at Vamroc's...well, whatever it is...a certain line, referring to onanism, was removed. All 24 occurences of it.
Onanism?
WTF?
Bad Vamroc. No donut.
-SYB
Hey at least I got noticed by Administrators so in my book thats like hitting a major organ in my attempt to get the thread killed.
More (or less ;) ) seriously, how would you build Sherlock Holmes as a D&D character?
With 3.5, I'd go with a Factotum/Master Inquisitive (from the Eberron Campaign). Of course, he'd have an ongoing addiction to one of Sharn's many abusive substances.
With 3.5, I'd go with a Factotum/Master Inquisitive (from the Eberron Campaign). Of course, he'd have an ongoing addiction to one of Sharn's many abusive substances.
Just one?
I still think the Urban Ranger Variant with an MD Companion makes more sense.
If you're using 3.5: Urban Ranger Variant.
And in 4th Edition?
-SYB
And in 4th Edition?
That makes things trickier, since in 4e there's no skill-monkey class that emphasizes intelligence. Here's what we're looking for in Holmes:
Stats Emphasized: Intelligence (obviously), Wisdom, possibly Charisma (he was a decent disguise artist, when the situation called for it)
Skills Required: Insight, Perception, History, Arcana, Dungeoneering, Thievery, Bluff, Initimidate
I'm thinking an Wis/Int Avenger build might be most appropriate, multi-classing into Artificer. Holmes was something of a zealot when it came to solving a case.
-SYB
Eh. I don't think any of the leader classes would make an appropriate cross-class for him. He was never a healer, that was Watson's forte.
Oh I have played with several leaders who didn't heal....
Oh I have played with several leaders who didn't heal....
At all? Jerks. It is a class feature that has no other value and takes almost no effort to use.
-SYB
At all? Jerks. It is a class feature that has no other value and takes almost no effort to use.
-SYB
One was new and just got overwhelmed, the other I would call a 'special' player, he had opinions about what he should and shouldn't do. I buy healing potions more often after playing with him.
Charging 50gp per use is a BARGAIN! ;)
MY healing words do more healing than a healing potion AND you don't have to spend any of your own actions.
Charging 50gp per use is a BARGAIN! ;)
Oh, I certainly prefer those. I only use the potions when there is no leader or when the leader is 'special'. Note the finger quotes used around special....
What is your favorite LFR mod and why?
Ok, suggested topic of the day:
What is your favorite LFR mod and why?
I'm going to have to say, any mod except SPEC 1-1.
12. Blasted. Hours.
This is the thread that never ends,
Yes it goes on and on my friends...
Oh, I certainly prefer those. I only use the potions when there is no leader or when the leader is 'special'. Note the finger quotes used around special....
special = jerk
-SYB
No options to handle things like the Rogue with Blinding Barrage as his daily, still left after the encounters, but the final "encounter" is both non-combat and non-skill challenge, just "Hi! Give us all your stuff!" Irritating, IMO. Here I have a power that would do nasty things to the whole opposite side, especially as they are ALL well within the AoE, and no way to actually play out the conflict.Now, on to a less irritating (maybe) subject.
How would you build Dave Lister in LFR?
Kryten, obviously, would be a warforged paladin of someone-or-other. Definitely Lawful Stupid. ;)
Would Lister need to be an Invoker or whatever it is that has a spirit companion, which would therefore be Rimmer?
Ok, suggested topic of the day:
What is your favorite LFR mod and why?
Played my Paladin of Kelemvor on Dale 1-2 High Teir with the exception of that TERRIBLE skill challenge it's probably the most fun I've had with that charactor. The down side is that charactor hit eighth at the end of the adventure so I have to wait until enough of my group can play 7-10.
-SYB
Ok, suggested topic of the day:
What is your favorite LFR mod and why?
I love them all, because LFR is the greatest thing since sliced bread!
-SYB
Is it really that hard to slice bread?
-SYB
Yeah, I've always wondered about that.
Now, on to a less irritating (maybe) subject.
How would you build Dave Lister in LFR?
Kryten, obviously, would be a warforged paladin of someone-or-other. Definitely Lawful Stupid. ;)
Would Lister need to be an Invoker or whatever it is that has a spirit companion, which would therefore be Rimmer?
The Cat - Half-Elf Bard with max Charisma
Lister - Half-Orc Rogue (and no, not because he's black! Because he's a smegging pig!)
Kryten - Warforged Paladin (little bit of healing, little bit of protection)
Rimmer - Tiefling Wizard
-SYB
Is it really that hard to slice bread?
Yeah, I've always wondered about that.
Well, if someone is going to slice bread, first you have to give them a knife. I don't know about you, but there are many, many people I wouldn't trust with safety scissors, let alone a real bread knife.
Sliced bread: Keeping sharp things out of other people's hands since 1928
-SYB
-SYB
Hey at least I got noticed by Administrators so in my book thats like hitting a major organ in my attempt to get the thread killed.
Perhaps you should re-read my original rules posting.
If this thread get shut down by Orcs, or if I feel the need to pull the plug nobody wins.
When a post of yours is edited by the ORC staff to remove content, it's generally a good idea not to repost the content that was removed.
Yeah, I've always wondered about that.
It's actually pretty annoying. I bake my own bread, so I don't have sliced bread; I've been doing it for years, but I still get in a hurry and make a bad cut from time to time, and that can 1) ruin a lot of bread and 2) make the loaf harder to use.
For example, let's say a cut isn't totally straight, and the bottom right corner is thicker than the rest of the piece. That might just make a sandwich annoying to eat, but if I don't cut the next piece at a similar angle, it will leave me with only like 3/4 of a piece of bread. If I do cut it at an angle, the whole loaf is strange. I can try to gradually reduce the mis-cut angle over several pieces of bread, but that requires more control than just not making a mistake in the first place.
Also, you can make a mess out of things by slicing a whole piece too thin (falls apart when you try to use it) or too thick (wastes bread, makes it harder to eat--thick sandwiches, toast that's not warm in the middle, etc.).
If nothing else, cutting bread takes time and effort that you people with store-bought bread don't have to worry about.
-SYB
Is it really that hard to slice bread?
Is a barrel of monkeys really all that much fun?
-SYB
So, can I play a Pious Templar of Ehlonna in LFR?
Yes. No. Expect Table Variation. See pg. 42.
One of those answers should help you.
-SYB
So, can I play a Pious Templar of Ehlonna in LFR?
Why Ehlonna?
-Matt
you all just lost the game.
Huh?
-SYB
Oh no. The torch just burned out. Now I'll probably be eaten by a grue...
-SYB
-SYB
The chamber is filled with flammable gas. You explode.
-SYB
Use explosion
Why Ehlonna?
-Matt
Because Ehlonna has longbow as a possible favored weapon. Hard to do a ranged Pious Templar with Pholtus or Pelor...
-SYB
Because Ehlonna has longbow as a possible favored weapon. Hard to do a ranged Pious Templar with Pholtus or Pelor...
Ohhhh... rightrightright. I was thinking Corellon and Solnor Thelandria were the longbow ones.
A buddy of mine and I were working on a similar idea yesterday, involving an Elf Paladin/Templar of Mayaheine.
-Matt
I want the monk to have a power called: "Boot to the Head"
And another power called "Trashing Bozos."
And another power called "Trashing Bozos."
And another power called "Sorry for being so MAD in 3rd edition."
-SYB
Ohhhh... rightrightright. I was thinking Corellon and Solnor Thelandria were the longbow ones.
A buddy of mine and I were working on a similar idea yesterday, involving an Elf Paladin/Templar of Mayaheine.
-Matt
One of my characters for a home game, still in 3.5, is for a Marshal 4/Fighter 4/Divine Crusader.
Unfortunately, Ehlonna doesn't have the best choices of domains.
I want the monk to have a power called: "Boot to the Head"
I still owe you a boot to the head. Should I make a monk?
I still owe you a boot to the head. Should I make a monk?
Just make sure you tape the boot to the head and put it on YouTube.
-SYB
Is this what you guys do when I'm not around to watch?
Yes, actually.
-SYB
Is this what you guys do when I'm not around to watch?
That, and we cast Magic Missile at the darkness!
Is this what you guys do when I'm not around to watch?
Why? Do you... like to watch?
Why? Do you... like to watch?
His middle name is Stalker. Darkwolf Stalker Bloodsbane (his parents were cruel).
-SYB
What 4E mechanic could most benefit from improvement?
Bonus points for concise description of the problem and a suggested fix.
(Yeah, I'm terrible at closing threads...)
Suggested topic of the day:
What 4E mechanic could most benefit from improvement?
Bonus points for concise description of the problem and a suggested fix.
(Yeah, I'm terrible at closing threads...)
Hmm...
The mechanic for whining about the things you don't like.
Power:
Pointless Complaint:
Keywords: Whining, moping, keyboard
Standard action At-Will
CHA v Will
Hit: break the sanity of other posters
Effect: You grant combat advantage, and take -2 to AC v Fire Attacks(Infinite duration, cumulative)
Suggested topic of the day:
What 4E mechanic could most benefit from improvement?
Bonus points for concise description of the problem and a suggested fix.
(Yeah, I'm terrible at closing threads...)
The word 'wield'. It is (pardon the pun) unwieldy. It isn't really a defined word, but it is used constantly.
Fix: ...... Honestly, I can't come up with a fix that satisfactorily works for how wield is used in context of Staff of Defense and how it is used in context of Rogue Weapon Talent.
-SYB
What 4E mechanic could most benefit from improvement?
...all of them?
Description of problem: The entire system.
Solution: Fifth Edition. Until then... trash can.
...hey, you asked.
-Matt
...all of them?
Description of problem: The entire system.
Solution: Fifth Edition. Until then... trash can.
...hey, you asked.
-Matt
*shakes head*
OK, so you abhor it.
Whopty do.
this kind of post is kind of what mine was getting at.
If you don't like it, don't play it.
...all of them?
Description of problem: The entire system.
Solution: Fifth Edition. Until then... trash can.
...hey, you asked.
-Matt
If you don't like it, then leave. Nobody is stopping you.
-SYB
If you don't like it, then leave. Nobody is stopping you.
-SYB
Actually, I am. I have him trapped in my basement and am force feeding him 4e D&D until he tells us where plans are.
Actually, I am. I have him trapped in my basement and am force feeding him 4e D&D until he tells us where plans are.
Fair enough. I stand corrected.
-SYB
Suggested topic of the day:
What 4E mechanic could most benefit from improvement?
Bonus points for concise description of the problem and a suggested fix.
(Yeah, I'm terrible at closing threads...)
We're supposed to believe we are in a "real" fight during an encounter but a 5ft by 5ft square is a relatively big area. So shouldn't we get some kind of dodge mechanic or miss chance in addition to the standard OA.
This post is made of Win.
I think you will find it is actually electrons. They stopped making stuff out of win when they moved the manufacture overseas.
We're supposed to believe we are in a "real" fight during an encounter but a 5ft by 5ft square is a relatively big area. So shouldn't we get some kind of dodge mechanic or miss chance in addition to the standard OA.
Dodge mechanic... you mean like AC?
-SYB
- Minions
- Traps
- Rituals
- Skill challenges
- Lack of XP value of terrain
- board game feel / MMO feel
- Warlock base dmg (or pacts, depending on your striker-based complaint)
- Power creep
- Dark Sun wasn't the base campaign
- The first bullet on PH p34 under "Play a dragonborn if you want to..."
(The above are not necessarily my own views, though many are to some extent. The last one, of course!)
And I was expecting:
- Minions
- Traps
- Rituals
- Skill challenges
- Lack of XP value of terrain
- board game feel / MMO feel
- Warlock base dmg (or pacts, depending on your striker-based complaint)
- Power creep
- Dark Sun wasn't the base campaign
- The first bullet on PH p34 under "Play a dragonborn if you want to..."
(The above are not necessarily my own views, though many are to some extent. The last one, of course!)
I'm confused.
-SYB
And I was expecting:
- Minions
- Traps
- Rituals
- Skill challenges
- Lack of XP value of terrain
- board game feel / MMO feel
- Warlock base dmg (or pacts, depending on your striker-based complaint)
- Power creep
- Dark Sun wasn't the base campaign
- The first bullet on PH p34 under "Play a dragonborn if you want to..."
-Minions give a feeling of power when you cut through a swath of them. (Swordmage with Swordburst. Crud, I'm surrounded. Oh, wait, I'm not.)
-Traps are traps. They don't seem all that different, other than the layout of their stat blocks.
-Rituals are fun.
-I have no problem with skill challenges, if for no other reason than: I trained in History and Diplomacy for a REASON!
-That's a DM issue. Not a DMG issue.
-I playes FFXI before I ever played D&D. My first thought when I played 3.5 was: this is what FFXI SHOULD be: wander around, kill monsters, and you don't have to spend 18 hours at a time to be able to afford a 10g piece of equipment. And, I grew up playing board games. I love the tactical aspect of 4th. It feels like the best of Disgaea and FFT (NOT TA. there was NOTHING worthwhile about that game.)
-I only played one Warlock, for one session, and we didn't have a single appropriate-level encounter. But I've played with warlocks, and I have NO complaints about their damage.
(and I LOVE their pacts)
-It happens. And it's happening a LOT slower than in 3.5. Deal.
-It'll be out soon. Dark Sun isn't Base Campaign material. It's very much a supplementary world. Athas isn't for newcomers. (Besides, I'm happy BECAUSE it's not the base campaign. This way, we get a DSCG and a DSPG. Unless you meant: instead of FR, in which case, I agree with you, I would have preferred LA to LFR.)
-Yeah, I'll agree that was more than a little cheesy.
If you don't like it, then leave. Nobody is stopping you.
-SYB
I... did... leave...
Anyways, back on topic, Divine Crusader of Ehlonna... hmm... Celerity seems like a pretty good choice, actually. Decent power, decent spell list, too.
-Matt
I... did... leave...
Anyways, back on topic, Divine Crusader of Ehlonna... hmm... Celerity seems like a pretty good choice, actually. Decent power, decent spell list, too.
-Matt
Well, if we are going to keep switching editions, then it is my turn. How should I best build my character? I want his class to be Halfling.
-SYB
Well, if we are going to keep switching editions, then it is my turn. How should I best build my character? I want his class to be Halfling.
-SYB
Halfling as a... Class?
are we really goiing that far back?
Well, if we are going to keep switching editions...
Well, we don't have to keep switching. I mean, I have a dream that my four little PCs will one day live in a world where they will not be judged by the edition of their PHB, but by the content of their character. I have a dream that one day, the best of all editions, first, fourth, third, and red-book, can come together in a system that promotes engaging roleplaying and dramatic conflicts without the design flaws, WoW-cloning, and rules ambiguities that plague the individuals.
It can be done!
-Matt
Well, we don't have to keep switching. I mean, I have a dream that my four little PCs will one day live in a world where they will not be judged by the edition of their PHB, but by the content of their character. I have a dream that one day, the best of all editions, first, fourth, third, and red-book, can come together in a system that promotes engaging roleplaying and dramatic conflicts without the design flaws, WoW-cloning, and rules ambiguities that plague the individuals.
It can be done!
-Matt
Roleplaying is just another word for nothing left to lose.
-SYB
Roleplaying is just another word for nothing left to lose.
-SYB
Nothing, I mean nothing honey if it ain't Roleplaying, no no
-Minions give a feeling of power when you cut through a swath of them. (Swordmage with Swordburst. Crud, I'm surrounded. Oh, wait, I'm not.)
The feeling of power is great. Their challenge value per XP cost is not. The podcasts have had developers saying they regret how minions played out two or three times (one was regarding the largest problem at Epic play, IIRC).
-Traps are traps. They don't seem all that different, other than the layout of their stat blocks.
In 3.5, a trap was often a chance for the rogue to shine. The one PC went in hiding, sweat a little, worked their magic, and announced the coast was clear and some horrid trap had been disabled. Ok, and similar to how many other gaming systems make classes shine, but not truly exciting (especially for the rest of the table).
In 4E, traps are in combat and something you should engage with. But, they suffer from wildly random ways of being put together and being 'found', such that they can be used to abuse a party. (Insane DCs so they can't be seen, can't be seen unless adjacent, all sorts of nebulous and inconsistent countermeasures, etc.) They have a much lower 'quality' control level than monsters. The interaction with thievery is weak - take a striker and have them not attack for 6+ rounds while they disarm a trap they may or may not know is complexity six? Crazy. The concept is supremely awesome. We want Indiana Jones. But what ends up on the table is not the fun depicted on PH 176-177. Instead, from Gen Con on, players learned to attack or ignore traps and to never disarm them. That's a real shame. I am really hopeful PHII or DMGII will correct the mechanic to make rogues and others trained in thievery capable of taking on a trap (and for this to be worth their while). There are lots of possible solutions here.
-Rituals are fun.
Go on, I'm listening!
-I have no problem with skill challenges, if for no other reason than: I trained in History and Diplomacy for a REASON!
I'm ok with them, but they are first and foremost very poorly written, both before and after the errata. The four-plus-part column in DDI is some proof of this. But really, just seeing how DMs (especially new ones) struggle with this points to their poor quality from a design standpoint. Sure, any good DM can take this and make it useful. It is nice to have the use of skills codified from an XP perspective and to see skills play a role in most adventures. It isn't a well defined system.
The rules struggle between optimization by parties ("We don't want to fail, so let's have our best diplomat say...") and efforts by DMs to counter that (I'm going to go around the table even though the errata says not to). They fail to create organic reactions from players/PCs. They make it easy to just throw some dice and offer little to create open RP. ("Oh, you succeeded. That's because you researched at the library and found that..." Player: "Actually, I was thinking I was speaking to the mage friend we met in that tavern...").
You can have some great skill challenges. There are some awesome DMs that make most skill challenges fun. And there are some good techniques out there. But, as written, skill challenges were and are weak and could use some work.
-That's a DM issue. Not a DMG issue.
I don't think so. Terrain has huge impacts on the game, but it seems designed that you don't factor it into the combat. Having monsters auto-hide, pop into combat, have favorable positioning, be placed behind difficult terrain... these have strong effects on combat. There should be some accounting for this in 4E.
-I playes FFXI before I ever played D&D. My first thought when I played 3.5 was: this is what FFXI SHOULD be: wander around, kill monsters, and you don't have to spend 18 hours at a time to be able to afford a 10g piece of equipment. And, I grew up playing board games. I love the tactical aspect of 4th. It feels like the best of Disgaea and FFT (NOT TA. there was NOTHING worthwhile about that game.)
I love the tactical aspect too. It is still strange for me to hear developers say how they worked to emulate MMOs when for so long it had been the other way around. The upside is some really nice fluidity to the game, a lot of openness and flexibility to PC management/building, and a real sense of team play. The downside is an ultra-fantastic power level for PCs and a world that fails to reflect it (we have mutant powers and the village doesn't care), a lack of realism (the whole rules set is much less an approximation of what might be happening in a fantasy world than previous editions), and a sense of grind to some combats.
-I only played one Warlock, for one session, and we didn't have a single appropriate-level encounter. But I've played with warlocks, and I have NO complaints about their damage.
(and I LOVE their pacts)
The pacts are super fun. The damage just seems to be sad to me. I play them and judge them often, and they are fun but fail to deliver on the same level as other strikers. If we take leaders as more or less fulfilling their role equally but in different ways, and defenders in drawing attention and strikers in dealing damage, etc., the warlock is just on unequal footing.
-It happens. And it's happening a LOT slower than in 3.5. Deal.
The PH was brilliant. With a few exceptions, you really could see tons of cases where different options were equal from a mechanical perspective but had different flavors. The new books and the previews don't show that same discipline. It is being acknowledge by developers (they seem to be working to help the wizard and they acknowledge the issues in podcasts), so perhaps it is something that will tighten or perhaps it is by design (cheese sells).
To be clear, it isn't a huge problem for me, but I sure see it and I do see it limit play for some people who play less often. They feel overshadowed by lower level PCs with new classes and don't want to / have the time to rebuild.
-It'll be out soon. Dark Sun isn't Base Campaign material. It's very much a supplementary world. Athas isn't for newcomers. (Besides, I'm happy BECAUSE it's not the base campaign. This way, we get a DSCG and a DSPG. Unless you meant: instead of FR, in which case, I agree with you, I would have preferred LA to LFR.)
Any authority behind that statement? I dared hope DS would be what the Ampersand was hinting towards, but I haven't heard anything. Agreed, it is a terrible base campaign. I was just having some fun with some of the items.
-Yeah, I'll agree that was more than a little cheesy.
See, we agree on all sorts of stuff!
-SYB
The feeling of power is great. Their [minions'] challenge value per XP cost is not. The podcasts have had developers saying they regret how minions played out two or three times (one was regarding the largest problem at Epic play, IIRC).
On the other hand, at least the developers made an attempt at creating the "mook." 3.5 did not do mooks very well, if at all. In order to create an encounter with a greater number of critters, each of those critters had to have a lower to-hit, AC, and save DCs, meaning that after a certain point, the gap between mook to-hit bonus and PC AC became too high to be meaningful. (Easy example: COR8-04) On top of that, adding those meaningless mooks would take away from the ability of the main threats to be meaningful as well. Though technically, adding minions to an encounter takes away from the XP budget available to the main threats... at least the minions are meaningful combatants.
There is a better way, though.
In 3.5, a trap was often a chance for the rogue to shine. The one PC went in hiding, sweat a little, worked their magic, and announced the coast was clear and some horrid trap had been disabled. Ok, and similar to how many other gaming systems make classes shine, but not truly exciting (especially for the rest of the table).
3.5 traps had their problems too. Magical traps, the ones only Rogues could find, could be overcome with Detect Magic, Dispel Magic, and Antimagic Field. Nonmagical ones could be found (and bypassed by magic like, say, Dimension Door) by anyone. And then you've got wonky CRs for traps...
But 4E traps are just bad. The whole system for traps needs an overhaul, that we know.
I'm ok with them [skill challenges], but they are first and foremost very poorly written, both before and after the errata. [...] It isn't a well defined system.
The rules struggle between optimization by parties ("We don't want to fail, so let's have our best diplomat say...") and efforts by DMs to counter that (I'm going to go around the table even though the errata says not to). They fail to create organic reactions from players/PCs. They make it easy to just throw some dice and offer little to create open RP.
Once again, though, at least 4E tried to create a system for resolving non-combat conflicts. What came out is terrible (I called it during the preview developer videos, when the video about their "social combat" system was presented by a developer who was stuttering and was scratching the back of his head), but remember... baby steps.
I don't think so. Terrain has huge impacts on the game, but it seems designed that you don't factor it into the combat. Having monsters auto-hide, pop into combat, have favorable positioning, be placed behind difficult terrain... these have strong effects on combat. There should be some accounting for this in 4E.
There's really no easy way to account for terrain, unless we figure out a way to quantify the effects of terrain on combat.
It is still strange for me to hear developers say how they worked to emulate MMOs when for so long it had been the other way around. The upside is some really nice fluidity to the game, a lot of openness and flexibility to PC management/building, and a real sense of team play. The downside is an ultra-fantastic power level for PCs and a world that fails to reflect it (we have mutant powers and the village doesn't care), a lack of realism (the whole rules set is much less an approximation of what might be happening in a fantasy world than previous editions), and a sense of grind to some combats.
This one is like abortion; either you're on one side or the other. Personally... I have a PC to play MMOs with. I play paper-and-pencil games to have an experience that cannot be emulated by my computer. So when 4E tries to be like my computer... that's a dealbreaker.
3.5 has its problems, too. Any improvement (and oh, it needs improvement), though, to D&D needs to be in an entirely different direction than where 4E went.
It [power-creep] happens. And it's happening a LOT slower than in 3.5. Deal.
Actually... quite the opposite. See Adventurer's Vault. On top of that, the power-creep was setting in before 4E's first splatbook came out; see the Illusionist!
-Matt
And I was expecting:
- Minions
- Traps
- Rituals
- Skill challenges
- Lack of XP value of terrain
- board game feel / MMO feel
- Warlock base dmg (or pacts, depending on your striker-based complaint)
- Power creep
- Dark Sun wasn't the base campaign
- The first bullet on PH p34 under "Play a dragonborn if you want to..."
(The above are not necessarily my own views, though many are to some extent. The last one, of course!)
My take on these.
Minions. I think if they got a save vs automatic damage, they'd be ok. You could also change it so they get a save vs damage from a miss isntead of simply taking no damage. Still minimal bookkeeping for them, and keeps the feel of "one good hit" takes them down. It feels like there's too much automatic damage out there, from lightning weapons to double-barreled rodgun BS.
Traps. I like the idea of them being a part of combats, but the execution could use some help. Sadly the "thievery" classes are strikers; if your leader was handling traps they'd still be able to contribute with minor action heals and such. Maybe if trap countermeasures were 1/round minor actions, or not 4+ success skill challenges, people would actually try them. Also, if anybody read and used p. 85 of the DMG, that a delayed trap only has a 50% chance to reactivate each round after being delayed, that might be a useful tactic.
Rituals. Other than casting times being a little longer than I'd like, they're okay by me. I see a lot of them as "skill shortcuts" that cost you time and money--Knock lets your wizard get past a locked door, but it doesn't obsolete the rogue's Thievery because he can do it faster and cheaper.
Skill Challenges. Again a good idea that could be executed better. The approach should promote a sequence of: PC comes up with what they want to do, DM determines appropriate skill and relevance to the challenge, PC makes check, DM narrates results. I also don't like the idea that the skill check determines what the character does to succeed. The space that's currently used to tell you what the PC does with his check should be used to give advice for ways the DM can determine relevance and present the results. Using the previous example: instead of saying "Arcana: The PC researches in the library ..." it should say "Library or Research: There is a reknowned library in the city where the PCs could research information on ...." and list likely (but not finitely) appropriate skills "(Arcana, History)"
Terrain. I think the game was designed with terrain features contributing to combats in mind, but there aren't any guidelines as to how much or what types fall within the expected range.
Board game/MMO feel. I really just don't get this feeling from the game.
Warlocks. I haven't played them or paid enough attention to them to make an informed opinion.
Power Creep. It has been better contained than previous editions. However, it seems in particular that they are letting loose a bit with higher damage. Attacks and defenses have a definite measurable balance; there's a formula and they're keeping to it (for the most part, at least.) But damage has been escalating (superior weapons, magic items) which has the potential to unbalance striker/non-striker damage ratios, as well as unbalance the offense/defense choices for classes like fighters.
Dark Sun. I do love the setting, but I would not in an RPGA environment. Of course, maybe it's because I think Dark Sun would be best served if you eliminated the Divine power source (elemental-based worship would fall into the Primal source) and the RPGA wants to play "everything goes" style. Settings that are in large part defined by what they exclude from the old idea of "core" will lose way too much campaign feel in the RPGA.
Dragonborns looking like dragons. OMG really? To be fair, they should have added a bullet point to the other races. Like "Play a dwarf if you want .... to look like a short beardy guy."
All I know is that I like D&D, and that's why I'm here. And I am so grateful for the wonderful RPGA group that I play with.
I applaud the effort. But, if haters (on both sides of the issue) could be stifled this easily, it would have worked ages ago.
-SYB
Edit: just to be clear, I am a 4E fan. I play it, write for it, etc.
The feeling of power is great. Their challenge value per XP cost is not. The podcasts have had developers saying they regret how minions played out two or three times (one was regarding the largest problem at Epic play, IIRC).
Haven't gotten that high, yet. Minions lead to the most priceless use of the Fey Pact Boon I have ever witnessed. Curse, Kill, *bampf*, Curse, AP, uising Bravura presence, Kill, Kill, *bampf*. Without minions, I don't think that that would have been able to happen.
In 3.5, a trap was often a chance for the rogue to shine. The one PC went in hiding, sweat a little, worked their magic, and announced the coast was clear and some horrid trap had been disabled. Ok, and similar to how many other gaming systems make classes shine, but not truly exciting (especially for the rest of the table).
In 4E, traps are in combat and something you should engage with. But, they suffer from wildly random ways of being put together and being 'found', such that they can be used to abuse a party. (Insane DCs so they can't be seen, can't be seen unless adjacent, all sorts of nebulous and inconsistent countermeasures, etc.) They have a much lower 'quality' control level than monsters. The interaction with thievery is weak - take a striker and have them not attack for 6+ rounds while they disarm a trap they may or may not know is complexity six? Crazy. The concept is supremely awesome. We want Indiana Jones. But what ends up on the table is not the fun depicted on PH 176-177. Instead, from Gen Con on, players learned to attack or ignore traps and to never disarm them. That's a real shame. I am really hopeful PHII or DMGII will correct the mechanic to make rogues and others trained in thievery capable of taking on a trap (and for this to be worth their while). There are lots of possible solutions here.
Ok, I see what you're saying. You have a point.
However, not being one to play thieves, it's nice to be able to do SOMETHING with the traps.
Go on, I'm listening!
I like the ritual system. That is all.
I'm ok with them, but they are first and foremost very poorly written, both before and after the errata. The four-plus-part column in DDI is some proof of this. But really, just seeing how DMs (especially new ones) struggle with this points to their poor quality from a design standpoint. Sure, any good DM can take this and make it useful. It is nice to have the use of skills codified from an XP perspective and to see skills play a role in most adventures. It isn't a well defined system.
The rules struggle between optimization by parties ("We don't want to fail, so let's have our best diplomat say...") and efforts by DMs to counter that (I'm going to go around the table even though the errata says not to). They fail to create organic reactions from players/PCs. They make it easy to just throw some dice and offer little to create open RP. ("Oh, you succeeded. That's because you researched at the library and found that..." Player: "Actually, I was thinking I was speaking to the mage friend we met in that tavern...").
You can have some great skill challenges. There are some awesome DMs that make most skill challenges fun. And there are some good techniques out there. But, as written, skill challenges were and are weak and could use some work.
Believe me, I dont' think they're perfect. I just think that they work well enough for my purposes. And my group is able to get in plenty of RP in the skill challenges. (8 hour regular LFR mod. Started at 7pm. Whoops.)
I don't think so. Terrain has huge impacts on the game, but it seems designed that you don't factor it into the combat. Having monsters auto-hide, pop into combat, have favorable positioning, be placed behind difficult terrain... these have strong effects on combat. There should be some accounting for this in 4E.
Shrug. I'll have to sort of agree. You're more than welcome to give extra xp for dangerous terrain in your campaigns. In my home campaign, we gain more story xp than combat xp. and the combats are always at least level +5 in difficulty.
I love the tactical aspect too. It is still strange for me to hear developers say how they worked to emulate MMOs when for so long it had been the other way around. The upside is some really nice fluidity to the game, a lot of openness and flexibility to PC management/building, and a real sense of team play. The downside is an ultra-fantastic power level for PCs and a world that fails to reflect it (we have mutant powers and the village doesn't care), a lack of realism (the whole rules set is much less an approximation of what might be happening in a fantasy world than previous editions), and a sense of grind to some combats.
Yeah, I mean, next to elves, walking, talking dragons, and magic, the rules are unrealistic.
:P The pacts are super fun. The damage just seems to be sad to me. I play them and judge them often, and they are fun but fail to deliver on the same level as other strikers. If we take leaders as more or less fulfilling their role equally but in different ways, and defenders in drawing attention and strikers in dealing damage, etc., the warlock is just on unequal footing.
Again, don't have enough experience as
a warlock player
. I have a Feylock in one of my parties who is God, however.
The PH was brilliant. With a few exceptions, you really could see tons of cases where different options were equal from a mechanical perspective but had different flavors. The new books and the previews don't show that same discipline. It is being acknowledge by developers (they seem to be working to help the wizard and they acknowledge the issues in podcasts), so perhaps it is something that will tighten or perhaps it is by design (cheese sells).
To be clear, it isn't a huge problem for me, but I sure see it and I do see it limit play for some people who play less often. They feel overshadowed by lower level PCs with new classes and don't want to / have the time to rebuild.
I'm just going to have to shrug here. The second paragraph isn't power creep at all, however. It's Option Saturation. (the bane of my existance. Don't get me started on how many different 3.5 PCs I've made vs how many I've Played.)
Any authority behind that statement? I dared hope DS would be what the Ampersand was hinting towards, but I haven't heard anything. Agreed, it is a terrible base campaign. I was just having some fun with some of the items.
No, just my personal feelings based on the following: they're trying to get new people in to D&D, and, considering the inherent danger of Athas, it doesn't seem like it would make a good base setting, scaring some people off. (as I said, unless you mean in FRs place, then I totally agree with you.) I've never played Dark Sun, but I didn't start D&D until 3.5. My friends have, and it interests me. I even have Athas.org's 3.5 update. :D
And I have all of the Currently Rereleased Books from Troy Denning. (Man's a genius)
Actually... quite the opposite. See Adventurer's Vault. On top of that, the power-creep was setting in before 4E's first splatbook came out; see the Illusionist!
Yeah, because the illusionist is totally the Pun-Pun of 4e.
As is the AV.
As is MP.
As is, well, everything after the core books.
-SYB
I applaud the effort. But, if haters (on both sides of the issue) could be stifled this easily, it would have worked ages ago.
That's the Internet for ya.
-Matt
Haven't gotten that high, yet. Minions lead to the most priceless use of the Fey Pact Boon I have ever witnessed. Curse, Kill, *bampf*, Curse, AP, uising Bravura presence, Kill, Kill, *bampf*. Without minions, I don't think that that would have been able to happen.
That is full of awesome.
Spycraft (d20 based) has the saving throw concept for mooks. You do damage to them, and they immediately make a save (3.5 style) vs 10 + 1/2 the damage inflicted. They then end up dying most of the time (your damage goes up as their level increases), but sometimes one of them will hang on for 2-4 rounds (just as in the movies!). It works really well for the idea of one mastermind and a bunch of guys standing in Bond's way.
In D&D, you do want the minions to die easily. But, you want their threat to be a bit higher. These aren't supposed to be (except in a few cases) useless thugs... they should still present danger. The overall threat level is supposed to be correct (1/4 XP of a regular monster) but really isn't.
Again, I'm not trying to be sour on 4E. I love me the 4E.
However, not being one to play thieves, it's nice to be able to do SOMETHING with the traps.
Totally. In a home campaign I would probably implement some of the ideas that were suggested. Ideally, you could disarm a trap in about three rounds. Or, even better, each trap has iterative steps. For example, a scything blade has two blades. First success: Each blade is at -2 to hit. Second success: one blade disabled. Third success: Trap disabled. This way, each thievery check can accomplish something (and right now). Coupled with maybe this being a move action (feat or utility to make it a minor) and you have something that rogues could be proud of and which would be worth doing. It's a simple rule that could just be "Each trap has iterative success results. Each successful thievery check should have a tangible result that lessens the threat." Then you can add some codification if desired. Failures could even be fun. Thinking of Indy, when things go wrong, the traps speed up. So, First failure: +4 to trap's attacks. Second Failure: One extra attack from trap per round, etc.
You're more than welcome to give extra xp for dangerous terrain in your campaigns. In my home campaign, we gain more story xp than combat xp. and the combats are always at least level +5 in difficulty.
I'm just starting to wrestle with this one. It could be cool to have some guidance in DMGII. Just some ideas of what constitutes an XP bump. As it stands, I can do all sorts of stuff and have it be theoretically fair. Not what I might do, but you end up seeing players suffer.
Yeah, I mean, next to elves, walking, talking dragons, and magic, the rules are unrealistic.
Well, relative realism... I mean that fireball, attacking with an axe, traps, and everything else isn't just x[W] plus x ongoing, like all the magical effects in the vast world would translate into Ws, a set of conditions, ongoing damage, and movement.
I hear ya on the other stuff. Troy Denning is a guy I need to buy several drinks for.
I'm so bad with instructions...
Wolfstar, can you clarify... am I supposed to try to end this thread, or prolong it?
I'm so bad with instructions...
You are supposed to stop posting. Trust me.
-SYB
You are supposed to stop posting. Trust me.
-SYB
Ok, gotcha. Thanks!
-Matt
Question: Did the developers ever mention how they're looking at fixing the Wizard?
-Matt
Don't fix what isn't broken.
Oof, this will start an argument.
-SYB
I... did... leave...
Anyways, back on topic, Divine Crusader of Ehlonna... hmm... Celerity seems like a pretty good choice, actually. Decent power, decent spell list, too.
-Matt
On topic? I thought the topic was ways to kill this thread.
Back to my DCoE, though, I am leaning toward Celerity, but the power is a waste, since this PC wears full plate and a heavy shield, and the extra movement from Celerity is, like too many other things, based on lighter armors and load.
Believe me, as a plain Marshal, or Marshal/Fighter, he has no need to go for light armor. Not to mention that his current armor has a bit of money in it, now. +1, Swarmguard, Durable, Restful & Glamered. Not to mention the expense of getting the symbol of Hextor changed into the symbol of Ehlonna on it...
Wizard just needs more content, that's all.
And forum posters need to be more content.
-SYB
And forum posters need to be more content.
-SYB
Yeah, that's going to happen.
/sarcasm
At least it's not as bad a mentioning the 3.5 Soulknife on the Giantitp forums.
I swear, you'd think that that base class bullied(or worse) most of the posters on those forums.
My favorite line about that class someone once said:
The monk will outdo you because his fists count as magic weapons.
Someone hadn't read the SRD.
-SYB
Detective Gubbins, a grizzled veteran of the version wars and the man who single handedly put down vice dens of the Living Greyhawk campaign. He has seen it all and heard all the excuses. Players sit up straight when he walks by, but it is DMs that really have to be on the ball, he can't stand a crooked DM.
Detective Spork, fresh faced rookie straight out of the WOTC Academy. Might not have the experience, but her honesty and drive got her noticed on the Maple Story beat and a quick transfer to the big time. She knows she has to prove herself to Gubbins.
Chief Inspecter Tulach isn't sure this new team will work out. Gubbins is still smarting after losing his old partner in the Weekend in the Realms riots but he knows that if someone doesn't reign in Gubbins the Detective might go rogue they would have to call in H.A.S.B.R.O. to stop him. Nobody wants that.
Episode One 'Night of the Orc':
Our show opens in a gameshop, could be anywhere, six gamers and a DM are about to run an LFR Module.
Player one - So here is my new warforged dhampyr paladin of Kelemvor.
Player two - Cool, I have a unaligned drow ranger with two scimitars who really likes killing people and wearing their skin, which is totally ok because he is unaligned.
Player three - I have a gnoll who totally eats people, but it is cool because he is unaligned.
Player four - I have an elf princess who rides a pretty pony and casts spells to make things pretty!
Player five - I have an orc...
Suddenly a ceiling tile opens above the table and Gubbins and Spork in full black SWAT kit repel down.
Gubbins - Hold it right there buddy, let me see your orc card!
Spork - RPGA Character Creation Rule 3.27 specificly states that ....
Player five - I don't need one! I am running him as a reskinned halfling!
Gubbins slams the perp against the table.
Gubbins - None of that perp, hand over the sheet!
Spork - Wait Detective Gubbins, what is wrong with him reskinning?
Gubbins - Whats wrong! I'll tell you what is wrong, you let reskinning start the next thing you know it will be total anarchy! Is that an elf or a prairie dog! Nobody will know!
Player four - Actually Princess Mimsi is an elf...
Gubbins - You all think this is a joke don't you, well let me tell you a story about a guy who wanted his half elf to look totally human, so you couldn't tell, well he went on to roleplay an undead!
DM - Thank god you guys were here!
Gubbins - Shut it buster, we are here to watch you run this adventure, we got a report of you giving full xp to a group that failed a skill challenge, you better hope we don't see anything wrong.
Player one - So here is my new warforged dhampyr paladin of Kelemvor.
Player two - Cool, I have a unaligned drow ranger with two scimitars who really likes killing people and wearing their skin, which is totally ok because he is unaligned.
Player three - I have a gnoll who totally eats people, but it is cool because he is unaligned.
Player four - I have an elf princess who rides a pretty pony and casts spells to make things pretty!
Player five - I have an orc...
Suddenly a ceiling tile opens above the table and Gubbins and Spork in full black SWAT kit repel down.
Gubbins - Hold it right there buddy, let me see your orc card!
Spork - RPGA Character Creation Rule 3.27 specificly states that ....
Player five - I don't need one! I am running him as a reskinned halfling!
Gubbins slams the perp against the table.
Gubbins - None of that perp, hand over the sheet!
Spork - Wait Detective Gubbins, what is wrong with him reskinning?
Gubbins - Whats wrong! I'll tell you what is wrong, you let reskinning start the next thing you know it will be total anarchy! Is that an elf or a prairie dog! Nobody will know!
Player four - Actually Princess Mimsi is an elf...
Gubbins - You all think this is a joke don't you, well let me tell you a story about a guy who wanted his half elf to look totally human, so you couldn't tell, well he went on to roleplay an undead!
DM - Thank god you guys were here!
Gubbins - Shut it buster, we are here to watch you run this adventure, we got a report of you giving full xp to a group that failed a skill challenge, you better hope we don't see anything wrong.
-SYB
Back to my DCoE, though, I am leaning toward Celerity, but the power is a waste, since this PC wears full plate and a heavy shield, and the extra movement from Celerity is, like too many other things, based on lighter armors and load.
Hmm...
Your PC wouldn't happen to be an elf or half-elf, would he?
The reason I'm wondering is because something you could kick around is finding ways to take extra domains. Seeker of the Misty Isle for Travel domain, or Contemplative for another of Ehlonna's domains, for example. Then, you'd have a more versatile spell list.
Another idea I'm wondering about (not 100% sure that this works yet) is taking Sun domain for Greater Turning 1/day, which would qualify (maaybe) your PC for other things that require the ability to turn undead.
Divine Crusader is a tough class to make effective; it takes some creativity.
-Matt
SRD is for weak gamers. Real gamers read the hardbound books.
-SYB
Oh, the XPH says the same thing about the Soulknife's mind blade as the SRD: Your Mind Blade counts as a Magic Weapon for purposes of overcoming Damage Reduction.
So he was essentally telling me, "I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm going to try to sound authoritative on it anyway."
It made me giggle.
New on Fox Wednesdays! Join the action packed but reality based adventures of The RPGA Police, Wizards of the Coast's elite strike team sent to deal with cheats, rebels, renegades and ne'er-do-wells that attempt to poison the pure and holy spirit of RPGA gaming!
+1
-SYB
New on Fox Wednesdays!
Don't you mean "A&E's Biography?"
Shawn
(who wants to be played by Kiefer Sutherland)
Don't you mean "A&E's Biography?"
Shawn
(who wants to be played by Kiefer Sutherland)
OK, so long as you pay his Salary for the show. :D
Don't you mean "A&E's Biography?"
Shawn
(who wants to be played by Kiefer Sutherland)
No insult intended, but...
Don't you think that would be pretty bad casting?
-SYB
What do you most love about 4E?
(Crit fail if your response is sarcastic)
Bloodied is an elegant fix to the previous hole in the rules called "How does he look?" Suddenly, we have a simple mechanic with broadcasts the health level of a combatant. No more asking the DM whether we're allowed to tell other players are exact HP values, no more "I'm about a third down;" instead, we have Bloodied.
Brilliant.
-Matt
The days of Orcs critting and killing someone at full hit points is over.
-SYB
Survivability of 1st level characters.
Seconded. I love the fact that noob PCs are no longer so darn fragile.
-SYB
Hmm...
Your PC wouldn't happen to be an elf or half-elf, would he?
The reason I'm wondering is because something you could kick around is finding ways to take extra domains. Seeker of the Misty Isle for Travel domain, or Contemplative for another of Ehlonna's domains, for example. Then, you'd have a more versatile spell list.
Another idea I'm wondering about (not 100% sure that this works yet) is taking Sun domain for Greater Turning 1/day, which would qualify (maaybe) your PC for other things that require the ability to turn undead.
Divine Crusader is a tough class to make effective; it takes some creativity.
-Matt
Pure human, unfortunately, or not. ;)
And the turning from Sun appears, from the way it is phrased, to require having regular turnings. Plant, on the other hand, explicitly grants turnings of its own.
And the turning from Sun appears, from the way it is phrased, to require having regular turnings. Plant, on the other hand, explicitly grants turnings of its own.
Excellent. Though, be careful; some prerequisites specify that you have to be able to turn or rebuke undead in order to qualify.
Contemplative is still worth looking into, though.
What level is he at the moment? 8th?
-Matt
-SYB
The need for system mastery is probably the worst thing about 3e. What was the topic again?
-SYB
Spleens, and how tasty they are.
Spleens, and how tasty they are.
I like them with a light sauce and good red wine.
-SYB
Pure human, unfortunately, or not. ;)
And the turning from Sun appears, from the way it is phrased, to require having regular turnings. Plant, on the other hand, explicitly grants turnings of its own.
Well, at least you get the bonus feat.
Speaking of... I know your PC uses a longbow, but... he doesn't by chance have Power Attack, does he?
-Matt
Excellent. Though, be careful; some prerequisites specify that you have to be able to turn or rebuke undead in order to qualify.
Contemplative is still worth looking into, though.
What level is he at the moment? 8th?
-Matt
PLANT DOMAIN
Deities: Ehlonna, Obad-Hai.
Granted Powers: Rebuke or command plant creatures as an evil cleric rebukes or commands undead. Use this ability a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. This granted power is a supernatural ability.
Add Knowledge (nature) to your list of cleric class skills.
Spell-wise, which is why I was looking at Divine Crusader, there are at least good spells in Celerity. Expeditious Retreat, at least, doesn't seem to have armor and load requirements. And Haste, even for groups with boots of speed, still has its uses.
Contemplative looks interesting, but that Knowledge Religion requirement is a bit steep. 13 ranks. Especially when including classes that don't have it as a class skill.
Not to mention having to meet your deity...He is actually only 6th level right now. 4th level Marshal, 2nd level Fighter. The plan is to take 2 more levels of Fighter, which will get him the BAB needed to take Divine Crusader. That gives him his next 10 levels (DC is a 10 level PrC), so I only need to figure out where to go at 19th level +, if the campaign goes that long.
And I ever manage to get my Tuesday nights free to play in it again.
Then again, I wish I had known about the Scout/Ranger/Swift Hunter/Improved Skirmish thing back when I started my LG character... Would have made a much more impressive archer...
Pious Templar is nice, but I hate having to use my neck slot for a Wisdom item just to get the class spells, since his Wisdom is only 10.
My other Tuesday night character is targeting Pious Templar. And that one is just going to be sick. Ranger 4/Scout 6/Pious Templar gives him both Evasion and Mettle, along with Ranger and Paladin spells. Of course, it does cap out his Skirmish damage a bit low, but you have to give up something.
Well, if you're only up to Marshal4/Ftr2, you might want to at least glance at Ranger2. It'd give you Rapid Shot for free... but then you'd run into the armor requirement.
This is all assuming your primary weapon is a longbow. Am I right?
-Matt
Hmm...
Well, if you're only up to Marshal4/Ftr2, you might want to at least glance at Ranger2. It'd give you Rapid Shot for free... but then you'd run into the armor requirement.
This is all assuming your primary weapon is a longbow. Am I right?
-Matt
Actually, this character owns a shortbow, but only as a backup weapon, mainly designed to get into melee and draw attacks in his full plate and heavy shield. One of the problems with the build, of course, is being able to do something to draw those attacks from my more lightly armored damage dealers.
Amazing how fast big bucks can go away, when something not directly combat-related pops up that you need to get... Had to get a title to get title to some land that a gate we use opens onto...
Actually, this character owns a shortbow, but only as a backup weapon, mainly designed to get into melee and draw attacks in his full plate and heavy shield. One of the problems with the build, of course, is being able to do something to draw those attacks from my more lightly armored damage dealers.
Amazing how fast big bucks can go away, when something not directly combat-related pops up that you need to get... Had to get a title to get title to some land that a gate we use opens onto...
Yeah, I hear that. I ran into the same problem back in year four in LG, except in my case it was continue saving for a metamagic rod or purchase the Choker of Eloquence that popped up on the AR.
As for being able to do something to draw attacks... what seems to be the problem you're running into? Do you enter the melee too late? Does your DM "put you on ignore" while bashing at the lower-AC combatants?
-Matt
Yeah, I hear that. I ran into the same problem back in year four in LG, except in my case it was continue saving for a metamagic rod or purchase the Choker of Eloquence that popped up on the AR.
As for being able to do something to draw attacks... what seems to be the problem you're running into? Do you enter the melee too late? Does your DM "put you on ignore" while bashing at the lower-AC combatants?
-Matt
I get there okay, given my lower speed, but when an opponent has the option of hitting the tank doing 7-10 points of damage per hit, or the large, unarmored type doing 30+ points per hit, the choice is fairly obvious. Even unintelligent opponents are likely going to go after the "big, soft hurt" instead of the little "tooth breaker".
Add-in allies that don't use my character's presence to gain flank (and their sneak attack dice), and sometimes I feel like it is only my Marshal auras that are appreciated.
Oh, on LG and buying stuff: It was only because my character died in a module with waaaay too much overcap that he was able to get both a periapt of wisdom and gloves of dexterity. Apparently, since my PC was the only one who died, we would have had enough overcap to resurrect him, not just raise dead.
25K GP overcap?But anyways, as for a damage increase; you might want to check out Divine Might. Also, you'll probably end up with an Animated shield at some point, freeing up both your hands for Strx1.5 damage.
-Matt
-SYB
You made the right choice, as True Resurrection wasn't actually on the available-for-purchase spell list.
But anyways, as for a damage increase; you might want to check out Divine Might. Also, you'll probably end up with an Animated shield at some point, freeing up both your hands for Strx1.5 damage.
-Matt
Raise Dead is 5K, Resurrection is 25K. I am not sure how much True Resurrection is, but it was something that I had to keep in mind at one point, running a human Pious Templar of Ehlonna who has things like the Favor of Grazzt but being from the Pale.........
Fortunately, I played him in the one trial before I wound up helping free a demon... And, of course, like anyone who played that module, he wound up buying that stupid doll. "Die, Heretic, Die!" Just too amusing.
Force bow was on his list, I just could never manage to save enough money to afford it. I kept stopping along the way for a few "little" things, like an armband of elusive action, anklet of translocation, periapt of wisdom +2, gloves of dexterity +2, changing out his composite longbow (Str +3) +1 for a composite longbow (Str +3) made of dragonbone by elvencraft. He used some of the other money to get a Str +5 version, as well, for use when he was Raging. Fighter 4/Barb 1/PT 3, OotBI 1 for a short time (9th level when he died and was raised, not enough mods available to play to quite make it back to 9th level).
As to Divine Might, it unfortunately requires the ability to turn undead, which he doesn't have. And it isn't provided by any of his PrCs, as far as I remember. Might be worth taking a level of Cleric, despite the BAB loss, just to get the turns and bonus damage.
No insult intended, but...
Don't you think that would be pretty bad casting?
-SYB
I just want to scream like Jack Bauer on "24" when I DM. "ROLL . . . THE . . . DICE!!!!"
PLANT DOMAIN
Deities: Ehlonna, Obad-Hai.
Obad-Hai is awesome. Choose the Shalm. The rest of the build doesn't matter!
As to Divine Might, it unfortunately requires the ability to turn undead, which he doesn't have. And it isn't provided by any of his PrCs, as far as I remember. Might be worth taking a level of Cleric, despite the BAB loss, just to get the turns and bonus damage.
Hmm...
Paladin4 might be worth a look. Can't recall off-hand if Holy Liberators get Turn Undead.
Just looking for ways to get his Cha bonus to do things. I tend to get that way with my own PCs; turning dumpstats into assets (Snowflake Wardance, for example).
-Matt
Hmm...
Paladin4 might be worth a look. Can't recall off-hand if Holy Liberators get Turn Undead.
Just looking for ways to get his Cha bonus to do things. I tend to get that way with my own PCs; turning dumpstats into assets (Snowflake Wardance, for example).
-Matt
The charisma bonus is always useful for Paladins. It increases the damage they deal with Divine Challenge.
-SYB
-SYB
If you don't like it, then leave. Nobody is stopping you.
-Matt
Hmm...
Paladin4 might be worth a look. Can't recall off-hand if Holy Liberators get Turn Undead.
Just looking for ways to get his Cha bonus to do things. I tend to get that way with my own PCs; turning dumpstats into assets (Snowflake Wardance, for example).
-Matt
Paladin requires (shudder) LG as an alignment.
I understand that. Cha is not his dumpstat, obviously. Currently 23, I think, counting his cloak. 32 point buy, and the Pathfinder racial mods, which is +2 to one stat of his choice for humans.
Paladin requires (shudder) LG as an alignment.
I understand that. Cha is not his dumpstat, obviously. Currently 23, I think, counting his cloak. 32 point buy, and the Pathfinder racial mods, which is +2 to one stat of his choice for humans.
Hmm...
Favored Soul could also be worth a look, as would Bard.
-Matt
Hmm...
Favored Soul could also be worth a look, as would Bard.
-Matt
You will have to wait until PHB2 comes out to play more than 3 levels of Bard.
-SYB
Since we are playing old edition tips here, I rolled up a wizard named Boggles for Dungeons and Dragons. His stats are 6 str, 8 con, 11 dex, 14 int, 5 wis, 10 cha. He has 1hp and a dagger, a backpack, a spellbook and a ten foot pole. Anyone have any tips on keeping him alive until I get to six level and become useful?
Walk VERY slowly, and DON'T TRIP.
You will have to wait until PHB2 comes out to play more than 3 levels of Bard.
-SYB
You can't be a Bard if you're Lawful Good. They have to be Neutral.
You can't be a Bard if you're Lawful Good. They have to be Unaligned.
Corrected.
-SYB
Since we are playing old edition tips here, I rolled up a wizard named Boggles for Dungeons and Dragons. His stats are 6 str, 8 con, 11 dex, 14 int, 5 wis, 10 cha.
Hehe. Did you roll 3d6 for each stat and then decide what class he would do well in? No school like the old school.
I sometimes think it would be a fun way to make 4e characters for a one-shot adventure or even small home campaign. Between the racial bonuses and the various classes I figure there is no set of numbers that wouldn't make a semi-survivable character of some type.
A
for anyone who does this.I understand that. Cha is not his dumpstat, obviously. Currently 23, I think, counting his cloak. 32 point buy, and the Pathfinder racial mods, which is +2 to one stat of his choice for humans.
Also, how closely is you guys' game mirroring the Pathfinder rules? How often are you receiving feats? Are you using Pathfinder's feats? Skill point rules? Other Pathfinder elements?
-Matt
Like the spawn of Darth Vader and Miss Piggy.
Pigs in Spaaaaaaaaace!!!!
Also, how closely is you guys' game mirroring the Pathfinder rules? How often are you receiving feats? Are you using Pathfinder's feats? Skill point rules? Other Pathfinder elements?
-Matt
Sigh. Hard to explain. We started it in, more-or-less, purely Pathfinder Beta, but I had to build in old HeroForge 3.5 because I wasn't up to adding Marshal at that time to the PFS spreadsheet I had.
In the meantime, we started another game, separate GM, which hewed even more closely to Pathfinder Beta, and still does, but in order to help increase the flavor difference for each game, the GM for this game decided to switch back, mostly, to standard D&D rules, other than the stat bonuses, and feat acquisition speed, of Pathfinder.
So, standard D&D rules with the exception of initial stat bonuses (grandfathered) and feat acquisition (which actually comes from a set of houserules, but they pretty much match Pathfinder's every odd level setup). Not sure if we are still using Pathfinder rules for 0 level spells or not.
Bard: Limited to light armor, IIRC, to use their spells.
Favored Soul: Having a 10 Wisdom tanks the saves against the spells, although using Cha for spells castable would be nice. At least the armor wouldn't be an issue.
Since we are playing old edition tips here, I rolled up a wizard named Boggles for Dungeons and Dragons. His stats are 6 str, 8 con, 11 dex, 14 int, 5 wis, 10 cha. He has 1hp and a dagger, a backpack, a spellbook and a ten foot pole. Anyone have any tips on keeping him alive until I get to six level and become useful?
Hide, and avoid AoE spells. Do everything possible NOT to become the target of spells like Magic Missile.
Cast Sleep early, then run away and hide if there are still opponents that are awake.
Other than that, rerolling is your best option. Also, according to the PHB, I think this character is strongly suggested to reroll, since it has a negative modifier overall. Ugh.
Page 8, PHB:
REROLLING
If your scores are too low, you may scrap them and roll all six scores again. Your scores are considered too low if the sum of your modifiers (before adjustments because of race) is 0 or lower, or if your highest score is 13 or lower.
Sigh. Hard to explain. We started it in, more-or-less, purely Pathfinder Beta, but I had to build in old HeroForge 3.5 because I wasn't up to adding Marshal at that time to the PFS spreadsheet I had.
In the meantime, we started another game, separate GM, which hewed even more closely to Pathfinder Beta, and still does, but in order to help increase the flavor difference for each game, the GM for this game decided to switch back, mostly, to standard D&D rules, other than the stat bonuses, and feat acquisition speed, of Pathfinder.
So, standard D&D rules with the exception of initial stat bonuses (grandfathered) and feat acquisition (which actually comes from a set of houserules, but they pretty much match Pathfinder's every odd level setup). Not sure if we are still using Pathfinder rules for 0 level spells or not.
Bard: Limited to light armor, IIRC, to use their spells.
Favored Soul: Having a 10 Wisdom tanks the saves against the spells, although using Cha for spells castable would be nice. At least the armor wouldn't be an issue.
As long as you have a Strength and Constitution of 13, you can get a feat for heavier armor. That should deal with your armor problem.
-SYB
Page 8, PHB:
REROLLING
If your scores are too low, you may scrap them and roll all six scores again. Your scores are considered too low if the sum of your modifiers (before adjustments because of race) is 0 or lower, or if your highest score is 13 or lower.
Page 8 of my copy of Men & Magic talks about Elves, Halflings and Other Types. Glad you pointed me to it, I had forgotten that Halflings were limited to Fighting Men only and capped at 4th level. Page 10-11 are about the stats, but I don't see anything about rerolling them. The sample stats are similar to Boggles, but for a cleric.
Page 8 of my copy of Men & Magic talks about Elves, Halflings and Other Types. Glad you pointed me to it, I had forgotten that Halflings were limited to Fighting Men only and capped at 4th level. Page 10-11 are about the stats, but I don't see anything about rerolling them. The sample stats are similar to Boggles, but for a cleric.
Try page 42. I hear it answers all questions.
-SYB
Try page 42. I hear it answers all questions.
-SYB
That is sooo zen, there is no page 42 in any of the three books. To find all the answers, first know there are no answers.
So, standard D&D rules with the exception of initial stat bonuses (grandfathered) and feat acquisition (which actually comes from a set of houserules, but they pretty much match Pathfinder's every odd level setup). Not sure if we are still using Pathfinder rules for 0 level spells or not.
Bard: Limited to light armor, IIRC, to use their spells.
So that means you're not subjected to Pathfinder Power Attack, brilliant.
As for the Bard, you're subject to Arcane Spell Failure in heavy armor. But there are a good amount of Bard spells which lack somatic components, and thus aren't subject to Arcane Spell Failure. Spells like Inspirational Boost, Bladeweave, Critical Strike, Blur, and Sonic Weapon. Alter Self is long enough duration for you to be able to cast before donning your armor, too.
Heh... turns out we've been discussing a brand-new edition all along!
-Matt
So that means you're not subjected to Pathfinder Power Attack, brilliant.
As for the Bard, you're subject to Arcane Spell Failure in heavy armor. But there are a good amount of Bard spells which lack somatic components, and thus aren't subject to Arcane Spell Failure. Spells like Inspirational Boost, Bladeweave, Critical Strike, Blur, and Sonic Weapon. Alter Self is long enough duration for you to be able to cast before donning your armor, too.
Heh... turns out we've been discussing a brand-new edition all along!
-Matt
Blur is a wizard spell. You will need the Wizard Multiclass feat to get it.
I think it is Utility 6 or 10.
-SYB
It's okay, because Bards can multiclass into "several" classes.
They can take the base multiclass feats multiple times. This I have learned from reading. Can they take multiple copies of the Adept, Acolyte or other feats?
-SYB
Edition wars. Sorta like the new Godwin's Law of D&D forums.
-Matt
As long as you have a Strength and Constitution of 13, you can get a feat for heavier armor. That should deal with your armor problem.
-SYB
The feat only allows yo to wear armor one step heavier, and that is not the actual requirement for it. The way Bards are defined, they don't qualify for the feat, either.
The feat only allows yo to wear armor one step heavier, and that is not the actual requirement for it. The way Bards are defined, they don't qualify for the feat, either.
Funny. My copy of the PHB says anyone qualifies for it if they have 13 Strength and Constitution and are proficient in either Hide or Leather armor.
-SYB
- Avengers, Bards, Sorcerers, and Barbarians look like fun.
- Invokers seems a bit too specific for a class. Direct line to God sounds like one offs rather than a job description. Clerics probably wonder what the heck is up with them as well.
- Wardens and Druids just don't leave me cold so far. Its a primal thing, I don't understand. Forgot the Shaman, same deal.
- Races:
- Gnomes. Actually a bit sorry to see they didn't play more with the 'I'm a monster now' thing more. It is riff that played well, but they just ignored it really. Could have been a fun thing for some adventures. Oh well, a monster no more.
- Devas, I keep picturing Barbara Streisand or Brittany Spears here, no real feel for them yet.
- Goliaths seem a bit like warforged to me.
- Half-Orcs. Not sure there was a big cry for them, but hey welcome back guys.
- Shifters, file under Druids and Wardens. I am sure they are big for somebody.
- Gnomes. Actually a bit sorry to see they didn't play more with the 'I'm a monster now' thing more. It is riff that played well, but they just ignored it really. Could have been a fun thing for some adventures. Oh well, a monster no more.
- Looking forward to seeing the rules in the back and the new feats.
I have just set up a Shadar Kai Bard for LFR, will see what else appeals once the book comes out. What grabs you?
I have just set up a Shadar Kai Bard for LFR, will see what else appeals once the book comes out. What grabs you?
Shadar-Kai Bard.... Sounds like a goth band.
-SYB
Shadar-Kai Bard.... Sounds like a goth band.
-SYB
Now I am going to have to have him humming Bela Lugosi's Dead all the time. My take is that he is charismatic and smart, smart enough to know that the best way to be a part of epic stories is to be in the back watching the guys with big swords whack the monsters while he thinks of cool ways to tell the story later.
Now I am going to have to have him humming Bela Lugosi's Dead all the time. My take is that he is charismatic and smart, smart enough to know that the best way to be a part of epic stories is to be in the back watching the guys with big swords whack the monsters while he thinks of cool ways to tell the story later.
Ah. Planning to borrow the wizard's lawn chair and fruity drink? I can see the stories now:
"The enemies were fearsome, but I dispatched them handily. The fighter? He was whimpering in the back, begging me to save his scrawny hide."
-SYB
Ah. Planning to borrow the wizard's lawn chair and fruity drink? I can see the stories now:
"The enemies were fearsome, but I dispatched them handily. The fighter? He was whimpering in the back, begging me to save his scrawny hide."
-SYB
And he'll have the bluff check to prove it too
And he'll have the bluff check to prove it too
Natch.
-SYB
Funny. My copy of the PHB says anyone qualifies for it if they have 13 Strength and Constitution and are proficient in either Hide or Leather armor.
-SYB
Get on the right track, or get out of the kitchen, please. All your doing is prolonging the issue, not trying to end it. And you want to be the last poster, don't you? Not the one everyone calls "loser"?
Or should we start guessing what the initials SYB stand for? Remembering that, right now, I would reference a female wolf for the B....
Get on the right track, or get out of the kitchen, please. All your doing is prolonging the issue, not trying to end it. And you want to be the last poster, don't you? Not the one everyone calls "loser"?
Or should we start guessing what the initials SYB stand for? Remembering that, right now, I would reference a female wolf for the B....
Ironically, close, and yet so far off the mark.
-SYB
So after running One Dark Night in Weeping Briar as a slot zero today I can say I am pleased with how the bard progresses and it was nice to see who the Avenger played out. I am looking forward to the book even more now.
Whosawhatsitnow?
-SYB
It's the PHII Game day module I believe.
Yep, it uses the Avenger, Invoker, Bard, Barbarian and Paladin (with Divine Power powers) as demos of the new character types. Fun scenario.
-SYB
Naah, they just didn't have one ready, because they're still trying to optimize it to perfection.
That is like putting lipstick on a pig. (Quoting "They Live", not presidential candidates).
-SYB
Naah, they just didn't have one ready, because they're still trying to optimize it to perfection.
I suspect it had more to do with miniatures. They used all figures from Demonweb, so I think that explains why we get a Dragonborn Paladin instead of one of the other new classes.
I suspect it had more to do with miniatures. They used all figures from Demonweb, so I think that explains why we get a Dragonborn Paladin instead of one of the other new classes.
Oooooh, shiny mini.
-SYB
Speculate as you see fit.
Realized this'll never end otherwise?
I remain confident it would - but only at the point it stops being "fun".
I've also comeup with changes I'll make in future varients of this contest if its something we ever feel like repeating.
Quick, somebody get a dozen monkeys, three rolls of duct tape, a Pina Colada and five Mexican jumping beans.
-SYB
So, now the need to entertain Wolfstar increases dramatically.
Quick, somebody get a dozen monkeys, three rolls of duct tape, a Pina Colada and five Mexican jumping beans.
-SYB
Not Asking.
I'm just going to keep mentally replaying the "Prison Cafeteria" scene and the "Your Move" scene from the Watchmen until I get to my Happy Place.
"Two-Nothing. Your Move."
I've also comeup with changes I'll make in future varients of this contest if its something we ever feel like repeating.
Such as . . . ever decreasing the amount of time needed between posts . . . ;)
This thread has been identified as gratuitous and in violation of the Code of Content.
Anyone continuing this thread by posting will be subject to a lifetime ban from the RPGA.
This thread is closed.
Sincerely,
The Forum Administrators
a bunny with a pancake on his head.
Look it up. ;)
Ok, here's the suggested topic for conversation for the next 24 hours:
What one rule change could the RPGA make to increase play (either by new or current players?
Regional Flavor DME Challenge
All you need is to have read/played the mod and spend a few brain cells on what the region is like!
-SYB
Hats off to Wolfstar for his iron-clad domination of this thread. Sweet. I like nice-guy dictators.
Ok, here's the suggested topic for conversation for the next 24 hours:
What one rule change could the RPGA make to increase play (either by new or current players?
Better introductory material for new players. A quick summary of coming up with a character, how the campaign works (things like treasure selection, mod level restrictions, how quests work), and maybe even a couple of dedicated new player scenarios. I know we have the RPGA Rules and lawerly Character Creation doc, I mean one page front and back sort of thing aimed at new players. A lot of players have never played RPGA and think it is purely some sort of competition, ala Magic Tournaments. Having a nice intro doc for people who walk up and look could go a long way towards bringing in new players. Some intro scenarios that focus on basic forgotten realms background flavor and some simple fights would allow organizers to walk new players into the campaign and help them get answers to questions. I realize there is a perception that RPGA is a sustainer, not a recruiter, but I am seeing that isn't true with the local group I play with. I have DMed and played with a bunch of people who never read the forums, don't go to cons and got into the local LFR group after long breaks from D&D. They often have questions they don't ask so they don't look like a 'noob' and I think that is sad. I also see people walk up, watch a bit then move on, having a nice WOTC produced intro/recruiting thing the group could hand out to them before they walk off could turn some of them into new players. I realize is isn't a rules change, but that is how I would work on getting new players in.
As for old players, I don't think it would make any difference on retention, but I would drop the no trade rule on one item per level. It is frustrating to not read the spoilers, get an item then one game later be offered a better one. I know power gamers are what they are trying to prevent, but they just read the spoilers and don't make the mistakes. It is the honest uninformed players, the majority, that are hurt by the no swap rules. I might go with four items from each tier of adventure and you can swap them out but don't get anything for the item you swap myself, but I am sure the rules lawyers can tell me why that is bad idea. That's me done, Alpha, what about you? You don't get to just ask here you know....
The rewards at the end of the modules don't have enough variety as I'd like. Add more AV items, for example.
Come on, you can do better, SYB! Make that quantity carry some quality!
$50 bill?
-SYB
$50 bill?
-SYB
I think he meant something that might actually happen.
I think he meant something that might actually happen.
I don't actually have any ideas on this one. I actually wouldn't mind seeing some rules that decreased play by some of the more aggravating players (hygiene rules for instance, or some rule that discouraged munchkins).
-SYB
So, while I am waiting to get banned permanently, any more ideas on stuff for a 3.5E Marshal/Fighter/Divine Crusader PC?
Well... the more we discuss it, the more I'm starting to lean towards something besides Divine Crusader.
-You'd be taking Weapon Focus for a weapon you won't use.
-You'd gain a domain power you don't want.
-Your spell list would be super-narrow.
-Divine Crusader does not assist what this PC is trying to accomplish.
The best option we've talked about here is probably Marshal4/Ftr2/Bard, actually. Just focus on long-term spells (to get around ASF) and non-somatic spells to use on the spot.
-Matt
What one rule change could the RPGA make to increase play (either by new or current players?
Extend table size to include three-player tables and seven-player tables. LFR already has provisions within its modules to adjust them based on size of table, meaning that the campaign could take that thought a step further. Table size has been a hassle for as long as I've been in the RPGA, and any step to make more tables go off would increase play.
-Matt
I agree that the gateway to RPGA is a bit steep and that information can help. Personally, I started with the RPGA because I heard the word "Greyhawk" and because I realized I could play from time to time and still get a great campaign feel. I traveled a lot for work in those days and I could never be part of a every week or every other week campaign - I ended up missing too much to stay at the same level and to follow the plot.
The RPGA, in my mind, offers a lot of bennies:
- A consistent dependable campaign and rules set. You can walk in off the street and know there are no bizarre house rules, no major negatives regarding plot/story/etc. You can count on standard D&D and a standard application of the campaign world.
- You play with, judge, and are judged by, overall, some pretty good talent. Overall, a lot of expert and "old hat" gamers are involved.
- It is easy to throttle your play to the right amount. You can play a couple of times every week or play once a month or just go to cons and still be a part of the campaign.
- Strong integration of new content. The RPGA does an increasingly good job of offering new material and of linking story together. Dragon, Dungeon, the new sourcebooks... you often have very little wait at all to use the material and the material is often based on RPGA play or the RPGA active campaign. You don't have to worry about your DM making you wait until they buy/read the book - you can play what you want now.
- Variety around gaming group and judge. While there is little that can compare with an awesome home campaign involving players you really dig, more often than not a home campaign has pluses and minuses... but there is no escape from them. With the RPGA, you generally have some table variation. Maybe you take turns judging and tend to play with 6 of 8 players you know well, or maybe you play with scores of gamers in a metropolitan area, or maybe you get to experience hundreds across various cons. You can get a lot of play styles and experience the game with more variety and flexibility.
The barrier to entry is often that those in the RPGA look inwards and not outwards. It can feel like a clan or clique and getting started is hard. You can take a quick look at any of those "Can I play an x in LFR?" threads to see a number of responses that might as well be "Shut up, n00b!". The CCG, while better than the previous LG incarnation, is still hard to grasp. It can be hard to get started and to get the temerity to try it.
In thinking through this, I see some opportunities:
- I really like Tancread's idea of a one-pager for new players
- I think there needs to be a solid front page to the RPGA web page that really has useful links for new players. The current version resembles someone's messy gaming closet
- More gamedays like Weekend in the Realms, but with a difficulty level pegged at INTRO and the plot set to AWESOME
- A better forum for finding new players and filling games
- Perhaps some promitional events that give new GMs and new players rewards (and maybe rewards to those who help bring them to the table)
For existing players, I think you want more reasons to care and more reasons to play. These can be in game and out of game. In game, replaying and the rapid leveling lead to having many PCs, which in turn make play feel less special. You don't have that one PC you really care about. Instead, you can have so many PCs you barely know more than their names, despite having played several modules with them. I think LFR could have a better means by which your play carries meaning. The LG regional feel really sucked you in and gave meaning to your PC's achievements. Out of game, rewards and involvement can make a big difference. Some thoughts:
- Increasing plot links and making story awards matter would increase the reasons we have to play frequently with out PCs.
- It might also be possible to do something around 'titles' and 'positions'. They would have to be somewhat rare, perhaps on the order of one PC per module. The limit of two story awards makes this harder to implement. Still, having that one "Hero of the battle of x" can make you really want to play. And, just knowing such things are out there can make you want to play more.
- I would like to see a more concerted effort to link mods across regions. Instead of having just the region x series, have a core mod reward a player with the favor of x from a certain regional mod. Have intros that give reasons to PCs for why they are involved. DM: "Today you find yourself in Baldur's Gate." Player: "Why?". Or, DM asks "Why would you be here" and player says "I have no earthly idea!" It isn't that hard to have a mod provide some hooks. "As someone from x, the stability of the Sea of Swords impacts you. Thus, you have been asked to travel to..."
- Having DME suggestions within mods and having options for play can greatly increase the fun of having multiple PCs and using Replay. Many players embrace replay out of a 'ho-hum' feeling of need rather than from any desire to play a scenario a second time. But, some mods (Gangs of Wheloon) seem to have so many options that you are willing to do so.
- Rewards to DMs are good, but I think player rewards should exist as well. The rewards should not break the game, but should be the kind you want to accumulate. One possibility is to have reward cards, when used, provide some benefit to the DM. Player uses a card, then uses the +1, now it becomes some bonus that the DM can use at a time of their choosing. Thus, the cards would be a strategic thing, not a free ride. The PC still benefits (due to strategic use when they need the bonus(es)), but it doesn't unbalance the game. And, with that caveat, the cards could actually get more interesting and still be balanced.
- I liked the old player/GM levels/titles. I think those are worth bringing back and then having them mean something. Back when I started, players and GMs took pride in being Master, Grandmaster, etc. And DMs took pride in getting the 3.5 spell templates, the Fist, and other bennies.
- It might be interesting to reward frequent GMs with early access to Specials. For example, a GM that has DMed x adventures can go to the RPGA site and put in their special code to unlock SPEC1-2 before the normal date and run it.
- I still think it would be fantastic to reward GMs with discounts off of DDI or off of setting or GM expansion books (such as FRPG, FRCG, Manual of the Planes, Draconomicon, Open Grave).
- The RPGA could also allow GMs at a certain level to run certain Dungeon adventures. This wouldn't be much work at all. The database could handle the issue, allowing only GMs that are at a certain judging level to order the mod, which would be just the bundle info and tracking sheet. As a GM, you would have real bragging rights when you can offer something special to players.
Extend table size to include three-player tables and seven-player tables. LFR already has provisions within its modules to adjust them based on size of table, meaning that the campaign could take that thought a step further. Table size has been a hassle for as long as I've been in the RPGA, and any step to make more tables go off would increase play.
Good thoughts. I do think play is better at 4-6 players, but I have played with 7 enough times in various campaign systems to know it works. It isn't ideal in terms of letting everyone shine, but it is ok mechanically.
Three is really hard, especially in 4E. It is just really easy to miss a role and end up with too difficult a battle. Three works for living campaigns like Spycraft or Heroes of Rokugan, where you have a lot of dramatic leeway to shape what an encounter is and what defines success for the encounter.
Three is really hard, especially in 4E.
However, LFR and the RPGA are two different entities. LFR can do whatever it wants with regards to its own table size, but the RPGA controls table size across all RPGA campaigns.
Remember, when LSPY was part of the RPGA, you could play a three-man table, as per the LSPY rules, but you couldn't report it, due to RPGA rules? That's what's being referred to.
-Matt
I won't rehash lethality issues. In fact, it was many of the regional ideas that LFR dropped that made LG less enjoyable for me to play.
I felt like the regional structure enforced the clique-ish feel of the game. When one or two people had characters with crazy unique titles and powers (and were getting their own personal plots), it tended to make newer players feel like they were being excluded. Human nature is such that a reasonable percentage of the people with those toys were very competitive and would use those toys to brag, especially to newer players.
The LG Regional system added a new level of system mastery to the game. Not only were people maximizing their characters through standard mechanics, they were maximizing them through affiliations and the like. It was daunting and while it may have rewarded the hardcore player, it drove away casual players.
I much prefer the LFR system that encourages casual players and has few rewards for the hardcore player. In my experience, hardcore players tend to be insular and drive away new players (not usually intentionally), while casual players often help bring in new players. I was being half serious when I said I would like to see rules that decrease attendance by some players. I think a small subset of players do a great deal of damage with their presence at games and I think losing them would lead to increased attendance overall.
-SYB
However, LFR and the RPGA are two different entities. LFR can do whatever it wants with regards to its own table size, but the RPGA controls table size across all RPGA campaigns.
Remember, when LSPY was part of the RPGA, you could play a three-man table, as per the LSPY rules, but you couldn't report it, due to RPGA rules? That's what's being referred to.
-Matt
True. I do recall those days. Pretty funny, actually. I think the same was true at 7: you had to choose someone to volunteer not to receive rewards.
I guess I'm thinking of 4E now being the iron-clad basis of all the RPGA campaigns. 4E doesn't really allow for a table of 3 (just looking at the various forums you often see a player wondering why they are having such a hard time in their 3-person campaign). It is a good point that LFR could choose to go with 7. However, while the construction is theoretically plausible, it is a departure from the DMG... everything there is written for 5 and then scaled to 4 or 6. I don't expect LFR would want to change that. We already have people say that 1 extra monster isn't enough when it comes to the benefit of an extra player. 2 extra monsters won't cut it, and then you might end up with having to depart from 4E... LFR won't do that.
I felt like the regional structure enforced the clique-ish feel of the game. When one or two people had characters with crazy unique titles and powers (and were getting their own personal plots), it tended to make newer players feel like they were being excluded.
I was being half serious when I said I would like to see rules that decrease attendance by some players. I think a small subset of players do a great deal of damage with their presence at games and I think losing them would lead to increased attendance overall.
Your complaining about something that excluded players and then turning around and saying that excluding some players is a good thing... who gets to choose?
Sure, if you came in around year 5, you came in on a wealth of history and rules... it was hard to master that. But, it was totally possible. The counter, to prevent richness and keep the campaign simple... that's just too close to "keep it lame" for me.
Sure, the volunteer nature of LG meant some players were absolutely in the know. The guy that was the PoC for 5 meta-orgs, wrote 4 modules, and helped run a regional con was absolutely in the best position to get in on that playtest... for good reason. In turn, they helped motivate the player base and helped create an amazingly rich play experience. And yeah, to a new player, the meta-org docs were daunting... but, so is any new sourcebook. You take some time, you read, you figure it out.
The idea of keeping a campaign completely light and simple... you can get that with dungeon delves, Dungeon Magazine, or maybe Green Regent. Simple stuff you don't have to think about. But that isn't what a Living Campaign should be... otherwise it is neither Living nor a Campaign.
Any campaign takes some time for a new player to master. That should be expected. We should focus on documents and play opportunities to bring in new players, not boring current players. LG's desert/Rary series did a good job of providing that opportunity and encouraged a good number of new and casual players to find a reason to play more. In contrast, the Dungeon adventure "Mad God's Key", which was ostensibly to drum up interest for LG, was a brutal difficult mod with low flavor and little relevance to the campaign. It made many players decide to steer clear of the campaign. I still recall the face of one player as they sighed and said "I new I would not like this campaign. Sorry, guys, but this is the first and last LG I will play."
Similarly, Weekend in the Realms, while not bad, really failed as an intro. The first page of plot was confusing even to the DM. The mod was difficult, in some cases arbitrarily could be impossible, and there was a lot to discourage new judges or players.
I always like this simple question... ok, two questions:
- What is going on in your LFR region?
- What is happening in the Realms?
You should, as either a new player or experienced player, be able to answer that. I bet the vast majority of players, even experienced players and judges, can't give you a proper answer to both of those (outside of reciting what is written in the FRPG/FRCG). That's because the LFR mods have done a poor job of painting a picture of the campaign world. This translates to the actions of PCs and players not having an impact and being done in a static (not living) set of modules... which isn't a campaign!
Your ideas on linked games I like much better. I would love to see more story lines and am pleased to see them starting come from the writers, I hope to see some that are not tier separated, so that you could run a game day and have everyone play it ala Weekend In The Realms. The event wasn't perfect, but the idea is a good one.
I would keep the rewards light, the new system seems fine to me so far, and I would also keep the overall campaign rules light. I know having any possible flexibility horrifies some, but this really is just a roleplaying game in the end and the variances that occur still happened in the much stricter LG enviroment. I don't see adding in more rules as practical answer. The game is a social one, a light friendly environment will be a better recruiter than a super regulated and monitored campaign.
I would keep the rewards light, the new system seems fine to me so far
I'm not really disagreeing, but I would point out that now what we basically have is a reward system where DMs get some apparently cool stuff (no one has it yet, but ship tiles would be cool) and then a process by which there is a pdf full of reward cards. The reward cards will still be there in mass quantities.
This means reward cards are more commonplace, if more equitably distributed.
I could live with no rewards at all, but I did see the cards as an effective incentive for many players. I also saw getting none as a barrier to play. When I saw people first attend a con and then get a bunch of rewards, it tended to really make them want to judge/play more. In contrast, I met a lot of players that, having failed to qualify for any, would say they didn't care about them. Everyone getting some and being able to earn more seems good. Perhaps everyone getting some but some getting them earlier will work too, as seems to be the new system with the cards some received at D&DXP.
I always like this simple question... ok, two questions:
- What is going on in your LFR region?
- What is happening in the Realms?
In all seriousness, why should I care what is going on in my region? The fact that I happen to live in a specific geographical portion of the country shouldn't dictate my interests, nor dictate my play opportunities (both mistakes LG made). As it stands, I do have some interest in Cormyr (happenstance really). And, like any player, I know how to find out about the corner of the realms that really interests me: play CORM adventures.
Similarly, I know how to discover what is going on in the Realms as a whole: play a whole mess load of adventures.
On to the other question you asked. In my experience with MULTIPLE organizations of this nature, new players are what keeps these kinds of organizations alive. Older players tend to, at best, keep the status quo (and good many drive new players away). A rare few are near perfect gems (you know, like the guys who DM every stupid convention that comes up). But, in general, more new players is a good thing and rewards that target new players are much more effective than rewards that target old players.
As for the players that I would prefer to see leave, I think I detailed it pretty well. Players that consistently drive other players away. This is standardly hygiene deficient players, munchkins, grognards, players who are invested to the point of addiction, etc.
As others have mentioned in other threads, players in RPGA are loathe to deal with these topics because they don't want the conflict. But every player at a convention that goes out of his way to show up the rest of the table with his uber-character leads to a half dozen new players who decide that they don't really want to play RPGA after all.
-SYB
Compared to LG year 2, there is a lot less of a sense of purpose and plot than there was with LG. Some of that is the format... you have 3 Cormyr mods to the 8-10 you would normally have in LG by this time. But, a lot of it is flavor. Much of that is improving, but it is still lacking.
Regarding the player issues you mentioned... there isn't anything the game can do about personal hygiene. Honestly, those issues are improving. In part, communication is helping to increase awareness. With more communication and better tools to plan, it is easy to identify good players and seek them out if others are found to be lacking. (Don't shower at your own peril!!) And there really is 0 right by which a con coordinator, campaign admin, or anyone other than you at your home can choose to throw someone out of a table because a player smells like cheese or plays cheesy. Like anything else, if something offends you, politely address it or avoid it.
-SYB
Due to character level, I have only played Black Knight of Arabel (CORM1-1). But, from that adventure alone, I already have a sense of greater problems in the area. A nobleman doesn't act like that just because of one small problem. Clearly grander events drove him to that. Now I just have to be patient and wait and see.
-SYB
Your faith is reassuring, I hope the writers and DMs give you the pay off in the campaign you are looking for. The writers are only part of the game, the best written scenario can be ruined easily by a bad DM, but the writers are the foundation. They are getting better and the campaign is getting more feeling to the adventures, I am hopeful this new round of low levels will be very good indeed.
Your faith is reassuring, I hope the writers and DMs give you the pay off in the campaign you are looking for. The writers are only part of the game, the best written scenario can be ruined easily by a bad DM, but the writers are the foundation. They are getting better and the campaign is getting more feeling to the adventures, I am hopeful this new round of low levels will be very good indeed.
It will. The bunny with a pancake on its head told me so.
-SYB
Due to character level, I have only played Black Knight of Arabel (CORM1-1). But, from that adventure alone, I already have a sense of greater problems in the area. A nobleman doesn't act like that just because of one small problem. Clearly grander events drove him to that. Now I just have to be patient and wait and see.
-SYB
CORM1-4 is coming in April. Levels 1-4
CORM1-4 is coming in April. Levels 1-4
Patience rewarded.
-SYB
Patience rewarded.
-SYB
Dang, who knew Bunnies were such good oracles.
What monster(s) would you most like to meet in RPGA play that you have not seen yet?
Red Dragon, my tiefling would just smile.
-SYB
Guard Drake.... oh wait, you said monsters that we WANT to see.
Too true!
Didn't you know that guard drakes run rampant in the realms? A veritable infestation! Turns out it is the mad plan of Szass Tam... and I only know this because... Argghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Too true!
Didn't you know that guard drakes run rampant in the realms? A veritable infestation! Turns out it is the mad plan of Szass Tam... and I only know this because... Argghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Oh wonderful. Now I am going to see the Alphastream undead in the next LFR adventure.
-SYB
Suggested topic of the day:
What monster(s) would you most like to meet in RPGA play that you have not seen yet?
I am a big Troll fan myself.
I dunno about that - but given his propensity for coming up with halfway decent topics (even in jest) means I might have to slap a Forum Guide title on him and let him create "Directed Discussion" threads in the future.
"Thread derailer"
"Un-shut-up-able"
"Strayer of topics"
"Herder of magical cats"
"Jester of topics"
"Thread Jester"
"Topic explorer"
All good titles, I think!
Hobgoblins. Not 1 or 2 bumming around with goblins or other races. But a nice sized militant group of them. Possibly with the attacking of an encampment or defense of a town.
Yeah, Hobgoblins are cool. It is so appropriate that a bugbear strangler was the first 4E critter to get a kill in the design sessions.
Yeah, Hobgoblins are cool. It is so appropriate that a bugbear strangler was the first 4E critter to get a kill in the design sessions.
Those things are vicious.
-SYB
What I'd like to see:
Undead aberrations (illithilich!)
More aberrations
Nilbogs (check out the 1E monster books)
I realize that these choices mark me as a sick individual, but for those that I've DM'd for that should already be apparent. ;)
This is the thread that never ends!
It just goes on and on, my friends!
Some people started posting it, not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue posting it forever just because...
-SYB
More aberrations
I realize that these choices mark me as a sick individual, but for those that I've DM'd for that should already be apparent. ;)
Agreed. More abberations.
Aboleths, Ilithids, Will-o-the-wisps(wait, those are Fey now, aren't they?)
Agreed. More abberations.
Aboleths, Ilithids, Will-o-the-wisps(wait, those are Fey now, aren't they?)
They were aberrations? Weird.
-SYB
They were aberrations? Weird.
-SYB
Yup.
Proof found here.
Small Abberation(Air)
Yup.
Proof found here.
Small Abberation(Air)
They made Will-O'-Wisps into Fey? Even weirder.
-Matt
They made Will-O'-Wisps into Fey? Even weirder.
-Matt
Why? Aren't Will-O'-Wisps of legend fey spirits?
-SYB
Why? Aren't Will-O'-Wisps of legend fey spirits?
-SYB
I don't know.
Why? Aren't Will-O'-Wisps of legend fey spirits?
-SYB
Sort of.
Remember, Abberation != Tentacles. (no matter how many of them do have those.)
Here is the definition of an Abberation from the SRD:
An aberration has a bizarre anatomy, strange abilities, an alien mindset, or any combination of the three.
Anatomy:
A will-o’-wisp’s body is a globe of spongy material about 1 foot across and weighing about 3 pounds, and its glowing body sheds as much light as a torch.
Abilities:
Immunity to Magic (Ex)
A will-o’-wisp is immune to most spells or spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance, except magic missile and maze.
Natural Invisibility (Ex)
A startled or frightened will-o’-wisp can extinguish its glow, effectively becoming invisible as the spell.
Being the SRD, there really isn't much in terms of mindset on here. I think they fit two of the three pretty well, regardless.
Also, Usu CE.
-SYB
Fifteen pages in... perhaps we could call it a draw and hand out a few titles. I'd probably qualify for "3.5 Sage" or something like that.
-Matt
Also, if they were Fey, their attack bonus would go down by two.
Fifteen pages in... perhaps we could call it a draw and hand out a few titles. I'd probably qualify for "3.5 Sage" or something like that.
-Matt
*grins* So you're saying you give up? ;)
Nono. The end is near. I know how it will end.
Also, if they were Fey, their attack bonus would go down by two.
Fifteen pages in... perhaps we could call it a draw and hand out a few titles. I'd probably qualify for "3.5 Sage" or something like that.
-Matt
Too many words. How about just "Grognard"? :D
-SYB
So... you are saying that there can be only one?
Only one winner to THIS contest.
There will be more contests in the future.
For the curious, if I repeat this contest it'll take the form of a half-life contest.
We'll start at 24 hours, and every so often I'll cut the timer in half until someone wins.
So... you are saying that there can be only one?
*beheads Telvin3d*
One down...
...
And, in regards to WotWs being CE, I don't know.
I guess this is part of the reason:
They prefer to confuse and bewilder adventurers, luring them into morasses or other hazardous places.
But, as the SRD is lacking in fluff, and I havent' read their MM entry in a while...
I figure because they tend to go out of their way to kill intelligent Humanoids. IIRC.
*beheads Telvin3d*
One down...
That's OK, I'll just come back as a retcon alien from a different timeline or something.
Too many words.
Just "Sage" will do, then.
-Matt
-SYB
I think it's about thyme that this thread came to a cloves.
What the...
When did you guys sign on with Funimation's Translation team?
I think it's about thyme that this thread came to a cloves.
When did it turn into a song thread?
Parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme...
Then again, for the filk-conscious:
Are you going to Centauri Fair?
The four horseradishmen of the foodpocalypse?
Nono. The end is near. I know how it will end.
Aye, I have seen it also. Fire and blood. I can't shake the vision so I drink instead. Why were we cursed with this horrid foreboding vision? Why?!
-SYB
Even a stupid clock is right twice a day... oh, wait, no it isn't.
Three times at the edge of daylight savings.
-SYB
-SYB
I'd think a stupid clock is wrong 25 hours a day at daylight savings.
It really depends what you mean by a "stupid" clock.
That's cold, Mith.
-SYB
Hmmm maybe even a Large sized Chillborn Zombie Swarm. A bunch of little pygmy zombies in a swarm. That would work.
Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, and Thyme?
The four horseradishmen of the foodpocalypse?
I'll just have to chew on that one for a while.
I'll just have to chew on that one for a while.
I found it a little hard to swallow.
I found it a little hard to swallow.
Here is a good one to try and close the thread with.
Telvin3d just admitted that he/she swallows :D with difficulty though.
The statements made in this post and thread are not the beliefs of the poster or posters of this forum
Hmmm maybe even a Large sized Chillborn Zombie Swarm. A bunch of little pygmy zombies in a swarm. That would work.
Wouldn't it only have the one aura, though?
You other brothers can't deny
That when a post walks in with an big ol’ open topic
And a easy place to debate
You get typing, wanna pull down your smack
'Cause you notice that thread was stuffed
Deep in the forum you are beyond caring
I'm hooked and I can't stop staring
Oh thread, I wanna post in you
And change to my angry avatar
My homeboys tried to warn me
That big thread you got makes me so corny
Ooh, massive thread bog
You say you wanna get on my Blog?
Well, reply to me, snarl at me
'Cause you ain't that average thread groupie
I've seen them postin'
To heck with proof readin'
Threads fat, inept,
Folks postin’ like a nasty 'Bullette
I'm tired of magazines
Sayin' small threads are the thing
Take the average forum goer and ask him that
It’s gotta pack much thread
So, fellas! (Yeah!) Fellas! (Yeah!)
Has your forum got the thread? (Heck yeah!)
Tell 'em to post it! (Post it!) Post it! (Post it!)
Post to that healthy thread!
Forums got thread!
-SYB
Wouldn't it only have the one aura, though?
Yeah but it would be a little higher damage than just 1. Then give them reach for knocking people prone to do their special attack etc.
Just a funny idea
On vacation. Glad to see this still going.
Hmmmm. I was still posting on this thread when I had my vacation the other week.
Yeah, I am a bit obsessive.
And I get to run the March Delve tonight, too.
Kids, I know you look up to adventurers, its natural. They have magic swords, get to cast real spells hardly ever seem to get eaten by monsters but let me tell you some of the non-glamorous things adventurers have to do. To start with you know that drooling drunk in the corner of the pub, Mr Nibblitz? Well if you were an adventurer you would have to go and check out every mad scheme he babbles about when he has had one too many Ale Fizzies. Do you think it is all glory? What glory is there in slaughtering hapless kobolds? Then there are the rewards, you think that gear looks really 'swank' but thanks to level restrictions you have to walk past two of every three magic items you could pick up. Face it kids, adventuring isn't a game, its just another job but with more risk and less chance for free fish. Friends don't let friends become adventurers.
Algac Halfhanded, Former Adventurer.
Slaughtering hapless kobalds is its own reward.
So true.
-SYB
And I get to run the March Delve tonight, too.
Ran the first two encounters. First encounter ran long, used lots of party resources. Partly difficulty, partly new players.
Second encounter went much quicker, because the group included a Warlock with the infamous two-rod combo, and all the minions were within the dreaded range factor... Still gave them some trouble, although the trap was set off by one of the party members instead of one of the minions. Heh. Curiosity killed the cat, but I never got a good shot at the dwarf. This time.
Ran the first two encounters. First encounter ran long, used lots of party resources. Partly difficulty, partly new players.
Second encounter went much quicker, because the group included a Warlock with the infamous two-rod combo, and all the minions were within the dreaded range factor... Still gave them some trouble, although the trap was set off by one of the party members instead of one of the minions. Heh. Curiosity killed the cat, but I never got a good shot at the dwarf. This time.
That two rod combo just doesn't seem to follow the intent of the rules.
-SYB
-SYB
-SYB
To me, in a home campaign, you introduce minions in waves and use them as color. PCs doing fine with them? Throw in some more as they come crawling through windows, grates, etc. PCs overwhelmed by them? Bunch them up and make them easy to take down. They have a potential threat that is seldom realized.
4E makes it hard to introduce radically different rules (such as the death save Spycraft gives to minions)... it is really clear from the mechanics that any damage should kill them. (In fact, assigning 2HP would arguably not stop them from dying when they take 1HP of damage, per the definition of minions in the DMG).
Anyway, I think they work fine, rods or no rods. Just space them out, introduce them in waves, and add them to the encounter without fully accounting for their XP cost. In a game where WotC regularly introduces traps and hazards for no XP cost when they should, you should not feel guilty for throwing some minions on top of a normally leveled encounter. (If your encounter is already above the PC level, then it is probably not a good idea to add 4 minions for free).
For LFR, that's tougher. I would still suggest DME to introduce them a bit at a time, but when you introduce them use them to their fullest extent (such as within charge range). This lets warlocks, controllers, swordmages, etc. get their fun, but also gives new waves so other PCs can have fun with them too and adds to the sense of a dynamic combat. Also, in LFR you can feel free to add a few more if a warlock or AoE hero has too easy of a time with them. I see minions as poorly made but really easy to DME into the fun zone.
-SYB
And, I am sorry, I DMed (sorry _metz_), and it was by my suggestion, earlier, that the warlock player had picked up the rods he did. 10th level characters, no backstory, just created for the module.
And the minions, just to give you an idea, were AC 27 for a 10th level party. That is an ugly AC to hit, even at that level, less than a 50% shot, and there were 11 of the things. Along with one set to activate a nasty trap, as well.
Fortunately for the party, they managed to take out the trigger devil before adding a big boulder to the 11 devils, and 2 snipers with poisoned weapons would have made life difficult.
-SYB
Cleave is one of the only powers that feels like it was actually intended to kill minions. I've started to give minions a saving throw against automatic damage.
How's that worked out? I've thought that a good idea for a while, but I don't think I'd do that running an LFR game. (Maybe though, if all the players agreed to try it out that way. But I haven't run a game with minions in a while.)
What I might do, though, is DME reinforcement minions based on those who get taken out due to effortless autodamage. I.e., cleave would still kill a minion for good since they had to hit something initally, but the double-barreled rodgun victims would go into the "reserves" which would arrive at the beginning of the round and then act on the rest of the minions' initiative. This would let the players use their cool tricks, and they would still be accomplishing something (prevent the party from getting swarmed, clear a path to the real threat, etc.) without completely invalidating the minions' presence in the encounter.
Do you think that would sound fun for the players?
-SYB
Dead thread.
... and all threads within 5 also take a point of damage and are destroyed.
Unless they make a successful saving throw.
-SYB
You think this thread is a minion? I'd lean more towards a level 82 solo. We can't even score a critical hit on it.
-SYB
By the Abyss, a natural 20 MISSES!!
By the Abyss, a natural 20 MISSES!!
It was a sad day in Mudville...
-SYB
-Red Mage, 8 bit-theater
What? Of course I didn't tamper with my dice. What would give you that idea?
Except for the part where it rolls all over the table. :D
your sister= :thumbsdow me =
together= How do you handle carry-over from one encounter in the series to the next?
Dailies & surges burned in earlier encounters?
Missing players and added players?
-SYB
-SYB
-SYB
We had our a@&*! handed to us by a certain LFR mod. To try to stem the absolute swarm (no AoE = unfortunate) and halfling horror, I went over and cursed a minion. I then had 12d6 aura. Sounds terribly broken, right? Horrendous! A complete violation of the game mechanics. Couldn't possible be intended by the game. And then we obliterated the encounter.
Not.
I unleashed the aura on DM's choice of swarms (the most wounded was chosen, of course), for about 60 damage. I must say, as a 7th-level PC, I have seen a good many PCs unleash that much damage at lower levels. And given my warlock-level striker damage, it was probably, averaged out, less damage than what the ranger at the table did for most of the mods' encounters. This bloodied the swarm, until we figured it would not be halved since it was neither a melee attack nor a ranged attack. Thus, we killed one of two swarms. (And, in theory, at this point, had saved us from losing treasure).
So, we still have a swarm and a couple of others. Despite getting 2d6 aura later and Cursebite (my only AoE), the last swarm was not standing and I, the warlock, the last one standing, fell to the ground for our first TPK.
Now, admittedly, it was not a good idea to play high, though we did have the levels to potentially take most 1-2 mods at high. But, this was not most mods. And a particular encounter one combat prior had robbed our one melee guy of all of his healing surges... I ended up being the 'defender' for most of the final combat, just due to the number of surges I had and having a somewhat decent set of defenses.
Despite again getting aura (this time for 4d6) from minions, we almost faced a TPK again from the final combat.
I suspect the two-rod combo was just fine. Despite the spike of 60 damage on the one critter, I am very sure my damage for the mod was below the damage (not to mention party benefits) of my warlord. My warlock has so far dealt less damage than my dwarven warlord (craghammer) every level, and it isn't for lack of trying (I've written small tomes on Darklock strategy). (It amuses me greatly to show up for tables and have players say something like "Could you play your striker? We could use the damage", and then I tell them the warlord is better for damage than a warlock...)
-SYB
I'm confused. If you TPK'd earlier in the adventure, how did you continue playing the adventure?
-SYB
Judge ruled that the reinforcements we had called in arrived around then (he was holding them back seeing if we could make it on our own, apparently).
Judge ruled that the reinforcements we had called in arrived around then (he was holding them back seeing if we could make it on our own, apparently).
Reinforcements?
-SYB
Full rewards! Ha! Missed out on all sorts of stuff in the one encounter we failed (the first were just moderately painful, the last one just a near TPK but still successful).Reinforcements are from being able to take a certain action to bolster numbers. We had done that, but they had not come with us, so he had them arrive late. We could truly have used them earlier, as meat shields, even with the corresponding increase in baddies. We just lacked any way of limiting damage on our guys that had no healing surges (I'm trying to limit spoilers).
Anyway, the point was that killing off minions really was not any impact to our success. Helpful, sure. Huge? No. In all my previous experiences, the 2-rod combo is really hard to get off. The two times I have used it on minions the fights were really easy, so the impact seemed huge but was not (fight was easy regardless). I was curious how big a difference the combo would make when you actually needed the edge... it wasn't enough of a help in our case. I continue to feel the combo is strong but not broken. Again, I would rather have had a number of my other PCs, including non-optimized PCs. I continue to see warlocks as fun but not very effective and needing a couple of boosts. I fully realize others will disagree, just sharing what we experienced.
I jsut finished recruiting two new DMs for our weekly game nights at the local game store. One of these days, I might actually get to play again!
Congrats!
Recruiting can be a long and painful process, but it really is worth it in the end.
What city are you in? You never know who is on the boards or who might know someone somewhere.
I've recruited via MeetUp (you can place a free post and then include a Yahoo group or similar link to avoid fees), Paizo boards, gaming store posts, Yahoo groups, etc.
How far will the number 2 seeds go in the NCAA tourney...
No, just kidding.
Should hazardous and damaging terrain continue to be allowed as part of encounter design without an XP cost?
I've been seeing a lot of this. I finished Open Grave on a plane ride, and it was full of damaging terrain remarkably similar to Hazards, but without an XP cost being figured into the encounter. The LFR second Core Special does this as well, and some other LFR mods do so.
On the one hand, many players feel LFR is a bit easy. Free damaging terrain (without impacting the budget) is a way to increase the difficulty of encounters beyond what the rules would allow.
On the other hand, it can get pretty unfair. You can end up with the equivalent of an extra monster or even worse, which can hurt a sub-optimal table (no leader, inexperienced, etc.).
How do people feel about this in the RPGA context?
I've also found that terrain worthy of an XP budget is often pushing the boundary between landscape and trap.
Should hazardous and damaging terrain continue to be allowed as part of encounter design without an XP cost?
The main difference between hazardous and damaging terrain vs traps is that players can see the terrain and can try to avoid it, but traps often can't be easily spoted and/or avoided.
When it is one sided terrain, the question is a little stickier. Part of the problem is that terrain isn't proactive. PCs may never encounter it. So, steam vents on the edge of a large room (when all the NPCs have fire resistance) may never come up because the PCs may stay to the center of the room.
But, in general, I think that when terrain is designed to have a significant effect on an encounter (chess board lava pits for example) and is one sided (NPCs immune), it should be figured into the XP budget.
SPEC1-1 has an interesting example of a room where there is some nasty NPC helping terrain. But, the room also has some PC helping terrain that the NPC can't use. It balances out. I like encounters like this with terrain that hinders both sides.
-SYB
SPEC1-1 has an interesting example of a room where there is some nasty NPC helping terrain. But, the room also has some PC helping terrain that the NPC can't use. It balances out. I like encounters like this with terrain that hinders both sides.
Good points.
In reading the DMG, it really surprised me how it suggested using strategy/terrain that greatly helped the monsters. I converted part of the Desert of Desolation's first mod (Pharaoh), and the new players (we were all pretty new) were really surprised that I had monsters come out of terrain to surprise them. Or even the use of low-light or concealing factors that affect the party. -2 to all is significant if you know the party isn't carrying light sources... do they really want to take the time to draw and light a torch/sunrod? They are at -2 until they do...
But, reviewing the rules, this is clearly the intent. You are encouraged to place difficult terrain between the PCs and the ranged foes.
Now, when terrain starts to be damaging or having significant effects, I start getting concerned. Open Grave, for example, has areas where undead heal 5 if they start their turn there... no XP impact! Or having slippery surfaces and flying combatants.
Personally, I hope DMG II will better explain what carries a cost and what does not. As it stands, RPGA games have terrain that is nearly identical to hazards at the encounter level (mod is 7-10, terrain does damage and effects nearly equal to a level 8 hazard, two of them in the combat). That is a huge 'freebie' for the monsters. In a home game you can work with your players, but in the RPGA context it can be unfair.
As I get into writing adventures I am struggling between the desire to use this to my authoring advantage (make an encounter interesting and challenging) vs the possibility for it to be non-fun (few if any enjoy a combat where you are getting owned from start to finish and the encounter seems unfair). Playtesting, playtesting, playtesting, I suppose!
Now, when terrain starts to be damaging or having significant effects, I start getting concerned. Open Grave, for example, has areas where undead heal 5 if they start their turn there... no XP impact!
It's also presented as the defining feature of a large undead lair. So instead of a standard battle, the PCs need to think a little and be smart about push and pull effects. Feels both thematically appropriate and tactically interesting.
-SYB
What in hades was wrong with the boards this morning?
Are you getting the 'do not have permission' thing too? That's been on and off for a couple days now.
At least for me, I couldn't get the home page for the boards to load properly. The area of the home page that contains the icons / links for the various sub-boards (RPGA, D&D, Magic, etc.) simply wasn't there.
Are you getting the 'do not have permission' thing too? That's been on and off for a couple days now.
I got that too... according to someone on one of the business boards, the forum cache got corrupted and it assumed that nobody had permission to view... well, anything. They said it should be good now.
Tomorrow is maintenance day. I'm hoping that cleans things up some.
It's also presented as the defining feature of a large undead lair. So instead of a standard battle, the PCs need to think a little and be smart about push and pull effects. Feels both thematically appropriate and tactically interesting.
I guess I think of non-XP thematic features as "skulls underfoot causing difficult terrain", cobweb-filled candelabras, horrible art depicting despicable acts, etc. Once you get into healing monsters, that needs an XP cost.
I recall in 3.5, LG Triads would account for any cost in the encounter difficulty. In Geoff, the EL was increased by one in areas of dim light, or with shadow creatures that gained concealment from the Dim Forest.
This is a pretty big sea change, and it is one that can have an unfair impact on play. Something like a harpy nest... let's have all flying foes and then the dropping on the floor could be as difficult as a strong aura effect or a hazard/trap... sure, its defining, but its also unfair.
A recent LFR mod had two areas that each do 2d10+5 dmg and restrained. That's a hazard, not terrain. In fact, it is basically the Daggerthorn Briar level 7 hazard (DMG p90) which has a 300 XP cost... two of them, for free! Unlike the hazard, they cannot be identified via a skill and cannot be defeated via damage (save ends instead of a skill to escape, no chance to do damage to them). Another big difference (advantage) over the hazard is that the terrain did not need to make an attack roll! Then add in that the monsters are immune and that they have the ability to put you into the hazardous area... hmmmm....
-SYB
-SYB
Sounds like an editor failed to do his job. Send feedback to the region PoC and possibly to the appropriate global admin.
-SYB
I'm sure they are aware. The authors aren't necessarily wrong, and that's why I asked the question. What is in that particular mod is not different from what WotC authors themselves are doing. Open Grave blew my mind with the number of encounters using these types of terrain-hazards without making them a real hazard and accounting for XP. And lots of the Dungeon content does the same.
-SYB
The forum software is crashy lately.
Tomorrow is maintenance day. I'm hoping that cleans things up some.
I think we all are.
-SYB
I guess there is a second way to balance it out. Since you know the adventure is one composite piece, if another encounter has terrain that is beneficial to the PCs, then it balances out.
-SYB
I agree, that would make sense. I like what the DMG posits; mods are best when they have an easy encounter, an on-level encounter, and a hard encounter. A series of cakewalks or a series of frustrating uphill battles are not fun.
In the mod I'm talking about, the later combats were much closer to an average challenge level and were everyone's favorites.
I think terrain is one of the factors that can really elevate 4E above other editions and even other games. It may be the element that can make combats heroic and movie-like, and it is probably the element that best mitigates the 4E weakness of some combats feeling like a grind.
Fighting around a volcano, a battle with sea trolls amongst crashing waves of a beach, a fight as you cross a log bridge over a river, etc., these have always been backdrops in the past. Now they can really come to life with interesting effects. one of my earliest AD&D memorable combats, in the mod Pharaoh, had our DM dropping us onto a pile of sand and spiders scurrying forth. I rewrote that for 4E, but now the sand shifted every other round. Some of the critters had an advantage, but overall the shifting was pretty neutral and could even be a tactical move (the sand allowed faster movement downward with an acrobatics check, which the players used to mitigate the shifting of Deathjump spiders). There is just so much potential for terrain, used from time to time, without it being a method by which you get a free hazard/trap and clobber the PCs.
-SYB
Suggested topic for the day:
Was Memphis really in danger when, down by...
Just kidding. It is "the most wonderful time of the year" for us basketball teams. Go Duke!
But, I do offer the following as a topic:
The RPGA move to allow instant new content, such as PH2, and new Dragon Content with the published issue, seems to be well received. What other old barriers should fall to improve the game and also to make life better for WotC?
I'm thinking of things like ways to make Adaptables come out more easily. I could see regular Dungeon mods or even skirmishes being RPGA-campaign adaptable, perhaps by something as simple as publishing the level band and rewards (for real ease, just offer the 'More Gold' option and the ability to choose an item from a certain book of your level or lower).
Having more playtest options would be nice. So far we haven't seen any detriments to more options, and some classes could really have benefited from RPGA playtest (compare the good nerfs to the Valorous bard as compared to the untested Battlerager).
Just thinking out loud here, as usual!
Having more playtest options would be nice. So far we haven't seen any detriments to more options, and some classes could really have benefited from RPGA playtest (compare the good nerfs to the Valorous bard as compared to the untested Battlerager).
You mean Brokenrager?
Or the "Let's give them a barbarian like fighter build"?
At gameday last Tuesday even with the PHII launch there was more chat about the group playing our first 7-10 mod than there was about the new options.
But the LFR format doesn't really lend itself to creating new characters on a regular basis.
-SYB
To be honest, I am not sure why you think the battlerager vigor fighter is broken. It gives up a lot for a good Con, and the vigor doesn't work against ranged and area effects, so...
Something that shouldn't exist: Stackable Temp HP.
I played a HellLock, for a time. **** the battlerager and his cheating.
It depends on how much you play. The hardcore amongst us quickly end up running out of mods (or have risen above the level of other players' PCs) and make a 2nd PC. And a 3rd, and a 4th, and a 5th, and a...
One of my friends had his Main stuck in Spellguard Tower. (Still does. That group doesn't meet much.)
Something that shouldn't exist: Stackable Temp HP.
I played a HellLock, for a time. **** the battlerager and his cheating.
Gotta hit to get the stacking part. And then you have to deal with either a Dwarf, whose to hit isn't going to be the best to get them, or a Warforged/Minotaur, who isn't going to have all that many from either source.
Dwarf: 6 with 4 possible from a hit. 10 isn't that much, and a Dwarf is going to have a lower Strength, and likely be using a +2 instead of a +3 weapon... And it uses a vital early feat to get the extra 2 temps, and another feat to get the weapon.
W/M: 5 with 5 more possible from a hit. Again, that same 10, and, again, it uses that vital 1st level feat to get that much. And, to use a "better" weapon, it costs another feat, and probably lowers the total to-hit. Most of the Superior weapons, especially the weapons that provide Brutal, are only +2 proficiency.
Personally, I'm against anything that requires as much bookkeeping as multiple pools of temp HP.
Then the class isn't for you really. I will fit some players well I think, but a lot less than are trying the battlerager at the moment. I have had a couple play at my tables who couldn't track their temps well and suffered for it. I think when the flavor of the month moves on to PHB 2 they will find a new toy.
There aren't multiple pools. The only difference is the source. If the source is stackable, then you add them to current temp HPs... you then just have temp HPs. If you gain more non-stackable HPs, then you take the higher of the two numbers. It shouldn't be hard to track.
Yeah, it's not too hard to track.
In fact, the majority of damage I took in the adventure was area and ranged damage. And, invigorating powers would have been much less effective than the powers I was using (sure I would have gotten temp hit points, but I wouldn't have gotten the push, pulls, trips, and close burst attacks off that really helped us survive).
So, if my fighter had been a battlerager, I simply would have been less effective than I was with a normal fighter.
-SYB
Now you have a PC that gains 6 HP per melee hit against them... and they are a defender up in the heat of things. They could easily be gaining 6HP per round, maybe more. That is a hugely larger number of net HP healing than any Leader is providing... and they are defending.
Similarly, the preview Valorous bard was granting 3-5 temp HPs several times a round to PCs that bloodied or dropped foes. That healing was way out of line with what leaders do. Thus, it was nerfed (reduced by 1 HP, once per round, range halved from 10 to 5). That puts most bards as once/round giving one PC 2-4 temp HPs, which is just fine as a class feature.
It isn't that battleragers are completely broken and the hugest issue ever, but they are out of line with the rest of the mechanics of 4E combat. I am pretty sure that they would have been nerfed had there been a playtest period as there was for the bard.
Designers aren't perfect, just as we aren't. The wizard is too weak, the battlerager too strong. It happens. But, there is the opportunity for WotC to utilize the RPGA to playtest/preview new content and it can help avoid these problems. I can almost guarantee that the Valorous Bard changed due to RPGA playtesting... and yet, the other preview/playtest classes have not been allowed for RPGA play. That hurts everyone. They should add future playtest/preview stuff to the finished issue so we can all benefit.
When Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski moved John Scheyer to the point guard position, was...
Just kidding.
Suggested topic (by Telvin3d):
What does everyone think of PH2?
Personally, I continue to be amazed by the genius of the 4E system from a marketing/design perspective. They really can throw tons of content onto the basic framework of classes, races, feats, powers. It used to be, in AD&D, it was all about magic and spells. You almost had to ask "Are there new spells in there?" for any Dragon article, sourcebook, etc. In 3.5, you cared about feats and magic and PClasses, but there was only so much you could expect to use. I feel like they really have made a goldmine here. I can see PH3, PH4, PH5, and I'm not barfing like I did with Complete Henchman, Complete Dog Handler, Completer Dude With Pointy Stick.
I think the classes have tons of potential, the feats are solid, the magic cool. And, overall, less power creep (at first reading) than MP and AV.
heh
-SYB
Come on, let's get some entertaining ideas here.
I'm getting sick of trying to debate this in the general thread. (serious or semi-serious responses are welcome. but we're looking for silly ideas.)
The spellplague magically killed all those with the desire to forge small weapons.
Since the spellplagues, a small weapon immediately flies up into the sky and disappears. No one bothers making them anymore.
As with gnomes, the small weapons were the domain only of monsters for some time. There are rumors they will return.
Headband of Perception
This chiffon headwrap is stitched with eye-shaped patterns, which heighten your senses.
Level: 1
Price: 360 gp
Item Slot: Head
Property: Gain a +1 item bonus to Perception checks.
First published in Adventurer's Vault.
Cannith Goggles
These goggles enhance your vision and can be empowered by magic to improve your vision even more.
Level: 1
Price: 360 gp
Item Slot: Head
Property: You gain a +2 item bonus to Perception checks.
Power (Daily): Minor action. Expend an arcane encounter or daily power to use this power. You gain darkvision until the end of the encounter or for 5 minutes if you expended an encounter power or until the end of your next extended rest if you expended a daily power.
First published in Dragon Magazine 365.
You asked...
-SYB
Because the second one is a playtest item. I have a hunch it may be changed slightly before release.
What I get for not looking through for the exact source. I guess it will be updated when the EPG is released, then.
-SYB
The DDI team reads the Erratta forums directly - in fact they do the same for the books in the book errata forums as well.
Plan B is to submit the question/concern to Customer Service so that it might be escalated to the devs.
-SYB
I received a PM from one of the staff when I inquired as to whether they were doing anything about my issue, and it was then in the next errata. Just saying, assuming can be folly... (no personal criticism meant, SYB).
Everyone have a good PHBII Gameday? Mine went well with four new RPGA players participating and some others recruited who didn't play.
Out of our two tables we had 5 new 4e players including 3 new RPGA members. Two of the others had very little 4e experience. The learning curve made for a long playtime but great fun was had by all. Plus we have some new players for our LFR group.
Out of our two tables we had 5 new 4e players including 3 new RPGA members. Two of the others had very little 4e experience. The learning curve made for a long playtime but great fun was had by all. Plus we have some new players for our LFR group.
We had four new players at the other store as well - split across two tables, and I think two of them may be new additions to our little gang as well.
I look forward to the next one, though it would be nice to have some LFR credit for them, at least to help fill tables.
Everyone have a good PHBII Gameday? Mine went well with four new RPGA players participating and some others recruited who didn't play.
I missed it.....Work
I hope these events are generating sales for gaming stores. They sure could use the revenue!
-SYB
For this second one, I liked the better map and having minis for DMs and players. I liked the use of new content. I liked that it was timed when the new books were in the stores. I liked that there were enough pregens to play and minis to match them.
Any ideas for improvements for the next one, Monster Manual 2?
These game days seem to be brilliance on a stick.
-SYB
then dipped in chocolate and covered with sprinkles!
Ours was good. A lot of people had fun, though I think our FLGS overbooked because sales were low.. there was a Yugioh event, a Magic event, a starwars event along with our D&D event.
Best Line: We have to get this little girl to calm down? I'm going to grab sophie by the shoulders, lift her up into the air and shake her yelling "SHUUUUUUUT UUUUUUUP!!!!" Intimidate yes? (Roll) :D Nat 20!
Goood times had by all. Two groups of 4, and we got 3 new RPGA/DCI members and sold at least 2 PHB's
I liked how the first one had flexible length - one session or go all day. I liked that it was LFR-compatible, but still low level so you could bring in new players and also attract the RPGA/LFR crowd.
For this second one, I liked the better map and having minis for DMs and players. I liked the use of new content. I liked that it was timed when the new books were in the stores. I liked that there were enough pregens to play and minis to match them.
Any ideas for improvements for the next one, Monster Manual 2?
I played it once and judged it twice. We were not able to finish any of them within 4 hours. The first combat seemed to take about 2 hours at each table. I think it was mostly due to people learning what the pregen characters could do. I also suggested people try and focus damage to speed up the combat, but most people felt the need to run off and solo their own monster. The skill challange was near impossible to fail, and went fairly quick. The third encounter generally took about an hour to get through, which left about 30min for the final encounter.
I would suggest they either make the combat shorter by lowering the monsters HP and increasing their damage, or just remove a combat and add another skill challange. I think they should also add more depth to the skill challange. A flow chart might be nice, along with penalties for failing checks.
I played the first one, as the Warforged Barbarian, and GMed the second one. Due to space and time limitations, we only got through 3 encounters for each table.
I think the main thing that made the first encounter run so long, as it did for both games, was the Quickling Jack, whose presence and antics did an almost perfect job of distracting the players. "He moves how far?!?" That, and a standard that basically allowed him a full second move with two attacks. He could start at one corner of the map, get his attacks in, and still end his turn at the opposite corner of the map. And he's hard to hit, even with all the OAs he provokes...
Some things I noticed on the Barbarian:
Once you reach 9th level, at least for a "standard" LFR module or "normal" adventuring day, you are best off, on non-trivial combats, hitting your rage as soon as you can.
Jagged weapons and Barbarians are a nasty match-up. Increases the chance of gaining that extra free basic attack significantly.
In the game I ran, the Barbarian got the final shot on the Dire Bear in the first encounter on a crit, followed by the charge reaction, which also critted, which allowed the Barbarian to get in that extra attack on the charge target, so 3 attacks in one round, not counting the Rage effect, which was the knockdown attack...
They used the pre-update text for the jagged weapon, too, which should have been corrected so it included the (save ends). Without that, it is a sick broken weapon.
It was amusing that at least one of the PCs did not have any magic items with daily powers, just one with a property/critical effect, and one with an encounter power.
-SYB
One danger with the MM Gameday is that they could try to showcase monster difficulty instead of monster coolness. In general, the gamedays should be on the easy side... TPKs do not sell games well.
I'd like to say that the minis were a great idea. Many of the players, and especially the new ones, were very happy to be able to take their minis home. The managed to get quite attached to these characters in a few hours of play. If WotC is looking to get new players excited, this is one thing they should repeat.
How did they feel about encounter difficulty?
And did they care for the trivia sheet at all (especially with so many new players)?
How did your tables feel about playing 11th level PCs? Was that too high a level?
How did they feel about encounter difficulty?
And did they care for the trivia sheet at all (especially with so many new players)?
I would have gone with something less than 11th, it did intimidate the new players. I had to reassure them they had no bad choices for attacks or they would spend all day second guessing themselves. They did fine in the end, but I think I would go with no higher than 6th or so for a demo.
The encounters went fine for me because I made them go fine by modifying them. I gave the players extra damage against the brutes, mostly by rounding damage up to the next five or ten. So a twenty-two became a twenty-five etc. Having run a play test with the other DMs paid off very well for me.
We didn't do the trivia.
On the sales, the store sold a quite a lot of the books and I saw them sell out of power cards as well, I think they were happy with the day. I am glad to hear everyone else seemed to have a good day as well. The reaction seems much more positive than for the Weekend in the Realms. To be fair, I enjoyed Weekend in the Realms, but there was a lot of noise after it.
-SYB
Seems the Game Day is a Very Good Thing
WotC seems to realize that TPKs don't sell games. There is a notable shift in approach to 4e than 3e.
Actually, I asked because there were a number of reports of TPKs or frustrated tables with WiR. At our event for WiR we may have had a TPK (on the day I played another table all got up and abruptly left about three hours before we finished). At the other two tables we had one early death (player had to sit around) and lots of frustration and head-shaking due to the factors captured in the WiR thread.
When I read over the latest Gameday it looked to be more reasonable in terms of difficulty, though one of the encounters had a hard XP value.
If I were designing a Gameday, I think I would shoot for a very easy encounter (2-3 levels below) for the first combat, two short skill challenges that showcase what skill challenges can do, a combat that is a level below the party, and then a final combat that is at level or level +1 (depending on features and impact of special rules). I would rather all tables say "that was fun, but easy" than "this is terrible", "I'm no good at this", "this is hard," etc.
-SYB
How did your tables feel about playing 11th level PCs? Was that too high a level?
I think they liked the fact that they had a lot of options for things to do.
OTOH, four of the five players that I DMed were fairly new to the game, and I think that an 11th level PC was a lot to digest all at once. (Heck, it was a lot for experienced players to digest, particularly when you're dealing with new classes and races.)
As I noted in the feedback thread, I really think that mid-Heroic tier is the way to go for one of these, especially if it's an event supporting a book containing new classes.
How did they feel about encounter difficulty?
Well, the other two DMs at our event and I agreed to nerf the encounters a bit, though that was mostly to try and speed it up. (When we did a slot zero, it took us 5 hours.) In the first and second combats, we gave all the monsters 60% of their stock HPs. In the third combat, we weakened the trap squares, to make them Daze rather than Stun.
With those changes, while the PCs did get threatened, the combats weren't quite as lethal, or as long.
I still think the single nastiest thing was the mill exploding on a natural 1 with a fire spell, which happened on the very first round of our combat. In that fight, I had 4 out of the 5 PCs bloodied at one point or other (the Invoker never even came inside, and thus, she avoided getting blown up :D ).
And did they care for the trivia sheet at all (especially with so many new players)?
As most of my players were new to the game, I think they were doing a lot of guessing. :P
-SYB
Invokers are like that. They borrowed the lawn chair and fruity drink from the wizard and really enjoy the view.
Absolutely. I know my wizard is that way. (Ironically, however, she also has a pretty rockin' AC...just in case. :D )
TPKs do not sell games well.
Tell that to the creators of Paranoia.
Also, My Invoker likes to be close to the action.
Then again, considering who I designed him after...
:D
Reflavoring everything around a chain theme, and wielding a chain whip.
Absolutely. I know my wizard is that way. (Ironically, however, she also has a pretty rockin' AC...just in case. :D )
No insult intended, but gender bending at a game table always feel awkward to me.
-SYB
-SYB
Tell that to the creators of Paranoia.
Good point. Some games work on a different premise. You could theoretically get a TPK in Traveler before the PCs ever became a party, just by dying during character generation...
I wouldn't say worst perception. Rogues tend to be trained in perception. And, only a few other classes actually have perception in class. Wisdom builds don't tend to have better perceptions until mid-paragon to low epic.
I do still hate that somehow the rogue, by stock build, is not great at spotting traps. Similarly, Clerics not being knowledgeable at religion. "What god is that, cleric?" "I have no idea, dude. I wish I could use my amazing wisdom and the fact that I work at a temple every day I am not adventuring, or the way I'm always reading those books about gods... let's ask our wizard."
Traps should just be able to be spotted with Thievery instead of Perception if you are trained in Thievery. That way, non-trained PCs can still use perception but rogues can be competent. Similarly, divine classes should be able to use Int or Wisdom for Religion.
I'll agree rogues have difficulty finding traps, but that isn't because they have a bad perception. They don't. Assuming they are trained, they have a good perception. Trap perception DCs are just too high for level.
Similarly, clerics with a +5 to religion have a good religion score. They should succeed on most skill checks that have to do with religion, unless it is obscure knowledge.
Too many DMs set the DCs too high for no good reason. And too many players believe a skill is only good if they are trained AND have a high stat. This just isn't true.
-SYB
No insult intended, but gender bending at a game table always feel awkward to me.
None taken. It's not something I do frequently (probably 15% of the many many PCs I've played over the years), but it's something I've always occasionally done.
For that matter, my wife plays male PCs about half of the time. Go figure.
In 3.5 you had the Arcane Trickster as the best rogue, since they had a great Int that they could use on all the trap skills. 4E fixes Thievery being dex based for everything... except finding the trap.
The trap DCs are fine. Usually the most perceptive PC can spot the trap passively or can spot it with an easy roll. That works well. Traps are supposed to surprise the party... otherwise, traps are not worth their XP value. But, once a trap attacks, the party should be able to find it (barring a terrible roll) with perception as a minor action.
What fails is the concept of who does the spotting. It should not be the cleric or invoker or warden that somehow is amazing at spotting the trap... it should be the rogue. The rogue is the class that cares about traps. That they need to dilute their other goals to hit the perception DC is ridicitarded.
The Luruar LFR mod was a great example.
Rogue: "Ok, I want to disarm that trap."
DM: "Ok, make a perception check as a minor to find it."
Rogue: fail
Cleric: "It is over there! (I point out the square to him)" :whatsthis
Rogue: "Well, I stand next to the square with the trap. Can I disarm it?"
DM: "Ummm. I don't know. You can't see it... ummmm... I guess I will give you a penalty of..."
Sad.
My pal Eric Menge used to play Daniella Fontaine, a hot bard who was always using her wily ways to make people feel uncomfortable. He carried a printout of a hot supermodel's face, which was glued to a stick so he could hold it over his face as he spoke to 'influence' you to do something. The stick was a great shtick... it reminded players that their PCs would likely be swayed by his PC.
With some inspiration from Eric, I used to play Ambrosia, an elven sorceress that was an enchantress. She was modeled after the worst of the worst 'hottest girl in high school'. She would work hard to be trusted as your 'bestest buddy ever' / 'girl that might actually fall for you', then would crush you like a grape. It was pretty fun. The concept really carried through when I did things like ask strong PCs to carry my stuff (I lacked the strength to carry my stuff), bluff check constantly, asked one PC to do something and then asked another to do it instead, etc.
Besides the over-the-top approach, female PCs can be done convincingly and help the game. First, amongst adults, a bit of gender variety makes for good RP. My RPd-as-delicate dwarven ranged rogue is a shy girl who is just fulfilling her dad's dying wish that she adventure and watch after his superior crossbow. She likes to cry out in fear when the monsters show up, then digs in her heels and gets fierce when a friend is in danger. She convincingly manages to get some love and care (and flirting) from the other PCs. And, with the flirting, I'm 36, married, with two kids. I'm really quite secure with RPing a girl that is flirting, as are most players I meet. The ones that feel a little strange that their figment of their imagination received a blush from my figment of my imagination... well, I do actually respect that and just let it pass and RP with them differently. I think most players know and understand that actual relationships/sex between PCs are pretty hard to work into mods in any way that would be fun. I've never seen it even attempted in the RPGA across genders, actually. For those wanting that, I've seen lots of groups advertise for that sort of game as home campaigns.
No insult intended, but gender bending at a game table always feel awkward to me.
-SYB
It can be.
I've made probably about 50+ characters between 3.5 and 4e. (Mostly thought exercises/backups that never saw play.)
I've made a total of 4 Female characters. An Eladrin Assault Swordmage(the only one to see play yet, and the Elder sister of a character in another campaign in the same world.), a Deva Shaman, a cohort to a Backup Char for a 3.5 Epic campaign (Eladrin Barbarian, I think.), and an Eladrin Pursuant Avenger of the Raven Queen/Tempus(Depending on LFR or not. The youngest of the Silverburg Family, at 19 yrs of age. Unlike her oldest, Assault SM, Sister.) And the mother of the Swordmage and Avenger, a Staff Wizard. (Yes, I have the entire 6 person family statted out. Mindarthis Silverburg, Spiral Tactician of the Eastern Eladrin Empire, has seen more play that almost every other character I've made.)
I haven't had any awkward moments yet, but then again, Gabriella (SM), is a career Army Girl. She doesn't form emotional attatchments.
Yes, when it works it works well. But the type of male roleplayers who can bring a truly engaging female character to the table are the same guys who regularly bring engaging male characters to the table. So, all things considered, I tend to cringe when a guy shows up at my table with a cute elven priestess.
*or a carefully intentional lack of class
Every now and then you might get a player that overdoes their female gender, but I really haven't seen it that I can recall. I do recall a ton of non-gender RP that caused problems. I just don't see cross-gender RP as a problem worth worrying about. It could just be my experience, of course, though that has been a lot of hours, cities, large cons, etc.
For tabletop roleplaying - I dunno, it's prolly closer to about 20%. I think it's because in face-to-face gaming you DO tend to get the occasional odd look when crossing genders in an RPG.
Online, there's no odd looks, so I can play anything/anyone I want.
Plus, every now and then another gamer just gives me a magic item. Always cracks me up.
My favorite (non-gender-associated) moment in the game, after I had spent a while trying to coach the players through a difficult mission. They all died not listening and I told them to hold on while I finished the mission solo.
One of the dead players: "Dude, how did you do that?"
Me: "I'm 35"
Other player: "Seriously?"
Me: "Yeah"
Other player: "Awesome"
Being able to take the skill does not make it ok that your class' base and secondary (and even tertiary) ability is (are) not the one for a skill that is completely relevant to your class. There is no reason why a Swordmage or TacLord should be better at religion than a Cleric or Invoker. Anyone can find a way to get the skill as a class skill, but certain classes should be naturally better at certain skills.
Certain classes are naturally better at certain skills. Clerics and Invokers are both naturally better at religion than Swordmages and Warlords. They are both naturally better because members of both classes are trained. The vast majority of Clerics and Invokers will be better at religion than Swordmages and Warlords.
-SYB
That does allow them to be better than most PCs that are primary or strong secondary Int at low levels. Yay.
Then you have anyone that has primary Int (or Wis for Perception) and takes the skill and will always be better than the class that is supposed to day-in and day-out on that subject matter. Still ridicitarded.
"What is this holy symbol of, cleric"
"I don't know. Let's ask the wizard."
"Any traps in this castle, rogue?"
"I don't know, let's ask the druid."
And it isn't as if you have to look a just the classes that are primary for Int/Wiz. The ones that are secondary can be great at it too. It is just simply the issue of the core skill depending on an ability that the class is unlikely to care about. A rogue does not need wisdom under most builds, and yet could easily want to be all about traps.
I'm happy to close the debate though. We are likely to keep disagreeing with each other!
-SYB
You can win! Seize the day!
Who likes puppy dogs and kittens? I do!
...
They go so well with a nice steak sauce and a good red wine.
-SYB
(I really should look at what I write)
-SYB
What do Warforged Barbarians eat?
I though Dragonborn eat dragons...
What do Warforged Barbarians eat?
Whatever they want:D
I though Dragonborn eat dragons...
What do Warforged Barbarians eat?
Nothing!
-SYB
In the NCAA women's Berkeley bracket, could...
Ok, just kidding.
The Gamedays are a hit. What online events (website special stuff, forum stuff, etc.) would enhance the RPGA?
-SYB
OK, so if dragons eat puppies and kittens, what eats dragons?
Me.
Some kind of collaborative effort could be cool, even team-based. There could be contests, like to design a monster. Each role board could design a different monster (fitting the role) and then the best one is chosen and appears in Dragon.
What online events (website special stuff, forum stuff, etc.) would enhance the RPGA?
A properly designed database?
Oh, and getting an RPGA number online or without mailing in (straight from card to database) would be nice for new players...
-SYB
A new player won't usually go straight to the RPGA site and log in, start reading the forums, join the Yahoo groups, etc. Instead, the more the system works for them and brings things to them, the more they are coaxed into involvement (and the more they realize these options are out there).
These days, a new player could walk up and I could use my phone (or their own if web-enabled) to enter their base info (and e-mail) and give them an RPGA number. They would then get e-mails with the information a new player needs to get started.
Similarly, a new player who gets a sign-up card at a Gameday has a high initial level of energy. They may or may not mail it in, but it is likely much more likely that they would plunk it into the RPGA site. That's the way it used to work - you had a new number, you used the default password, you got started.
Even if they do mail it in, if they then go to the RPGA site to log in, they can't because they need to wait some indeterminate amount of time for their number to be enabled... that energy from the Gameday dissipates. I've seen it happen to a lot of players. Some players I know waited three months before finally going into the RPGA site (and finding their reported play to be all a jumbled mess...)
-SYB
(Just kidding, I love my mailman).
-SYB
-SYB
Women b-ball game on, gotta go...
Karl Malone, NBA player, known as "The Mailman" (for delivering the ball to the hoop with great consistency)
So, not the Mailleman then.
Back on the Design a Monster thing though: You could narrow it down to a type of monster. A subject could be picked, like kobolds. Then everyone could get to work making different kobolds. Imagine the variety of kobolds we'd have to choose from. Our players would never know what to expect! hehe.
Also, if you designed an original monster, the winner could go into the MM3 or something. That would be pretty cool.
-SYB
I like the ideas of everyone doing their own thing, but I guess I just feel like that ends up being a certain crowd that really knows what they are doing. The RPG Superstars contest Paizo comes up with capture that. I like that the forums end up with a lot of people involved. For every thread that one poster might really spearhead, the comments of many contribute to the final work. That's a lot like an actual gaming table, where it isn't just the DM or just one player, but how everyone comes together.
Wow, that sounded all love-filled. Someone play a sweet song, quickly!
-SYB
I was thinking design a monster because monster blocks have separate segments. Each 'segment' could allow for different people to contribute. And, if you separated it by role = forum, you could really get lots of people involved in different ways. You could have a limit of one person per role. One monster wins, and gets featured somewhere (LFR mod, Dragon, Dungeon, etc.) with everyone's credits.
I like the ideas of everyone doing their own thing, but I guess I just feel like that ends up being a certain crowd that really knows what they are doing. The RPG Superstars contest Paizo comes up with capture that. I like that the forums end up with a lot of people involved. For every thread that one poster might really spearhead, the comments of many contribute to the final work. That's a lot like an actual gaming table, where it isn't just the DM or just one player, but how everyone comes together.
Wow, that sounded all love-filled. Someone play a sweet song, quickly!
That's a pretty cool idea..... And no sweet songs are coming to mind....hehe
-SYB
-SYB
-SYB
-SYB
) a pack of stuff. It is a nice incentive to help promote the game.When you order the gamedays to run at a store, they mail you (real mail, not the basketball kind or the e-mail kind
Kit Content Description
Your kit contains the following materials:
• An adventure entitled “Journey Through the Silver Caves” (3 copies). The focal point of the event, the adventure is designed to be played in about 3-4 hours. Give this adventure to the Dungeon Masters (DMs) that will be running the adventure.
• A double-sided poster map detailing all of the combat encounter locations in the adventure (3 copies). These maps are all to scale, making it very easy for the DM to get right to the action with minimal set-up. Give these to the DMs that will be running the adventure.
• 5 pregenerated character sheets to play with the adventure (3 copies of each). These 5th level characters were all created using the Character Builder application on D&D Insider. Give these out to the players when they sit
down to play the adventure; photocopy more sheets if you need them.
• Monster miniatures for all the foes in the adventure (3 packs). All the monsters encountered in the adventure are present in the pack. Give these packs to the DMs running the adventure.
• 5 player character miniatures for the adventurers (3 of each). These miniatures go with the character pictured on the character sheet. Hand these out to the players of the appropriate characters.
• Flyers promoting the next Game Day event and upcoming D&D releases (50 copies). Hand these out to anyone at your location, whether they’re playing the adventure or just showing up to hang out.
• This instruction and trivia sheet. Make photocopies of the trivia sheet and hand them out to everyone at your event. People can work on the trivia when they’re not playing the adventure.
And, this time, there was an option to order more than one kit when you place the Game Day order.
The same stuff is available to be downloaded the same as LFR modules are. So DMs can read through the adventure and the forum can dissect all the typos long before the physical stuff shows up in stores.
Module doesn't contain a cover, front or back.
Given everything, if you print a copy, I wouldn't (am not) print pages 3 or 12 of the PDF. Page 3 is just a full-page graphic of a monster attack, and page 12 is a full-page ad for LFR. But I am cheap, with a printer that doesn't get much printing per ink cartridge.
It is a place to hang out and talk about stuff, right?
No, it's my own private thread. I really wish the rest of you would stop posting here and cluttering it up.
Mine!!!111!!1!11!!!ONE
Heh.
Howling Strike and Swift Charge. Can you substitute Howling Strike (usable on a charge) for the melee basic attack that you would normally get from Swift Charge? And get the additional 2 squares extra charging distance?
-SYB
Also, this is the post of the beast
-SYB
-SYB
Without Optimus Primal.
-SYB
Someone remarks that the Antichrist would be known by having "the number of the beast" written on him. Damien's "father" walks over to him, leans over him from behind, and looks at his (upside-down) face.
"Nope, it doesn't say '666'...it says '999'. He's just fine!"
What does everyone think of the current LFR administrative organization?
By this I mean the idea of a WotC employee RPGA lead, two global admins, three regional admins for each region.
Does this seem to provide the RPGA membership with proper access to information? Does it help/hinder the campaign being accessible/responsive to player needs at the local and global level? Is there a better way?
Just throwing it out there for comment. I have no big opinion on this one. (Shocking, I know!).
It is leaps and bounds better than LG. The Circle basically had unlimited authority without any accountability. Triads were built based on connections rather than ability. The quality of adventures and consistency of difficulty was incredibly variable.
-SYB
These are things like the Weekend in the Realms (RPGA event sanctioned through RPGA channels... but don't complain to us because the whole thing got handed down as a done deal) or the database (sorry, it turns out the people who run the whole back-end to our campaign don't actually answer to us on any level).
Also, I'd like to see the administrative side take a more active role in one of the few areas they are in charge of; treasure bundles. There have been a half dozen long running discussions now on how the current bundles don't seem to be serving many, many characters very well. There have also been a couple statements by admins that they are not responsible for the treasure because that is left to individual writers. This seems a very haphazard way to run a worldwide campaign.
Last, but not least, for a worldwide campaign that is 99% run through internet channels it is truly strange that there is no official person tasked with communicating with the community. Wolfstar, as good a forum moderator as he is, does not count because he can not give official answers to questions. Neither do the LFR admins that hang around these forums. There is a reason that they preface many of their posts by pointing out that as volunteers they can not make official statements or judgments.
We desperately need someone official who we can message and question and who can make official statements for the campaign. This includes rule clarifications (until 4e errata rules one way or another for the purposes of this campaign it will be dealt with like so-and-so...).
Now, the big disclaimer. I criticize because I love. I play and run LFR regularly because I have an enormous amount of fun doing so. If the campaign and its staff wasn't getting far more right than they do wrong I wouldn't sill be hanging around these forums complaining. Thank you to everyone involved in the campaign.
There's such a small variation of "found" treasure avaliable, especially when one considers the amount of avaliable Magic Items in general, even solely in regards to books released when the Mod was written. (I wouldn't take AV1 into account for the earliest Mods, for example.)
But with the new items from PH2, and then AV2 looming on the horizon, (and I thought, hey, booty!) It's only going to get worse.
I'm just glad I'm not (yet) playing a main implement class. (I'll be starting my Avenger on Saturday, but the Implement is a Secondary consideration. Heavy War Pick FTW!)
Everything seems more dire after 10 adventures than it does after 20 or 30 (or 50 or 60).
-SYB
The current LFR system is the worst of all worlds. It lacks the predictability and control that a strictly controlled item policy would provide. At the same time the current ad hock method isn't even delivering unexpected or novel items on a regular basis.
-SYB
In my last two adventures, I saw (and took) a Throwing Shield and Boots of the Fencing Master. I found those both novel and enticing.
-SYB
You must be happy you didn't need a totem implement.
It's mostly the implement classes that have the short end.
and they're adding more implement types. It can only get worse from here.
-SYB
Nobody has actually played a character at higher levels yet. A vanilla +2 implement is only 1800. At the rate my 4th level character gets money, I will easily afford that at 6th level. And, that is assuming I really need a +2.
Nobody has played an 11+ character, so it is impossible to speak for paragon play. Also, this year alone, another 30+ adventures (likely around 50 if I understand the rules right) will be written. That is plenty of opportunity for implements to appear.
-SYB
Really? How can you say that with any certainty?
Nobody has actually played a character at higher levels yet. A vanilla +2 implement is only 1800. At the rate my 4th level character gets money, I will easily afford that at 6th level. And, that is assuming I really need a +2.
Nobody has played an 11+ character, so it is impossible to speak for paragon play. Also, this year alone, another 30+ adventures (likely around 50 if I understand the rules right) will be written. That is plenty of opportunity for implements to appear.
-SYB
Opportunity does not equate to appearance.
Really? How can you say that with any certainty?
Nobody has actually played a character at higher levels yet. A vanilla +2 implement is only 1800. At the rate my 4th level character gets money, I will easily afford that at 6th level. And, that is assuming I really need a +2.
Well - in fairness, nobody has played a Paragon+ character in LFR.
However people may very well have played such at higher levels - and the mechanics of whether one needs specialized implements or not at that tier (and above) exists (or doesn't) independent of LFR.
Do I win due to Godwin's law killing threads?
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=17883623#post17883623
Now that we are closing in on post #700, I'm thinking we should start a pool for who can call last post #.
I call #768
Anyways if we are guessing last post, I will put in my guess of post #1234 being the last post.
And it will be mine!!!!
-SYB
OK, so we know what WWGD in May is all about. What about the one celebrating the DMG2?
Detailed here.
I am not willing to invoke the bad karma that comes with writing the punchline.
-SYB
I just read the first post (I'm not reading 24 pages), but basically all we do is troll this thread. Last one standing wins?
Am I reading that correctly?
What's purple and blue and red and green and has 87 legs?
A Tyranid?
[Edit] No wait, I know. A month old box of chicken legs left out in the hot sun!
What's purple and blue and red and green and has 87 legs?
Don't know, but it sounds gross
(and then got eaten)
-SYB
Sad, but true. With the condition that if our mindless chatter devolves to the point that Wolfstar gets bored or we do something despicable enough that the thread gets locked nobody wins.
Well, me remaining entertained isn't a requirement, actually. Just keeping the thread "out of trouble" for lack of a better term.
However, I suspect that things are going to get a little more interesting soon.
Of course. . . since I make the rules, it's only fair that I suspect things like this from time to time.
I'm just waiting for SYB's computer to die. Then the thread will end.
My housemate would let me use his.
-SYB
My housemate would let me use his.
-SYB
Then we'll have to sabot..... I mean wait for his to die too:D
This ranks in the top twenty weirdest things my body has done.
Have you ever had to shave your nose? I'm sitting there at the mirror wondering to myself, "How do I do this?".
-SYB
He'd hear the dog joke 50 times a day.
That'll learn ya!
Get off my lawn!
All things considered, odd places we have grown hair seems like one of the least pleasant places we could take this thread.
Ain't that the point. To kill the thread.
If I make it so unpleasant that no one wants to read it, then *BANG*!
Dead Thread. :D
-SYB
Joke: Who's Green and Sings?
Punchline: Elvis Parsley!
Why are there... so many... songs... about rainbows?
-SYB
Kermit!
Why are there... so many... songs... about rainbows?
-SYB
The Rainbow Connection
Written by Paul Williams and used by Kermit the Frog, of The Muppets, Jim Henson Productions
Why are there so many songs about rainbows
And what's on the other side?
Rainbows are visions, but only illusions,
And rainbows have nothing to hide.
So we've been told and some choose to believe it
I know they're wrong, wait and see.
Someday we'll find it, the rainbow connection,
The lovers, the dreamers and me.
And, as in, Kermit is green and sings, I suppose.
I attended Gamestorm in Portland and had some great gaming (the mods get better every time!) And, I had the opportunity to meet with Rob Heinsoo and Andy Collins (and Jonathan Tweet). I'll try to write up my notes once I actually get sleep. I don't want to do the math on how little sleep I have had.
-SYB
Sleeping sky.
Waking water.
And that brings me back to the 80s, and he new (then) breakfast cereal, Cthulhu Wheats.
Waking water.
And that brings me back to the 80s, and he new (then) breakfast cereal, Cthulhu Wheats.
winding walk, was what I was looking for...
Seriously, how many people here have had to shave their nose?
Michael Jackson ... once.
911, and the whole tower of posts will collapse.
*applause*
not bad, not bad.
It's nice to see someone who isn't afraid of making a terrible joke.
(Mine tend to get me modded.)
-SYB
Odd meeting the third. Was he just there by coincidence?
-SYB
Portland is such a short drive from Seattle. It was clear from what they were saying that they all hang together. (Tweet and Rob are clearly in a shared home campaign). I think it was a "business is business" and we all are still part of the same circle of friends and creative collaborators. I've personally been in that type of situation (I have become a contractor for companies that previously laid me off). There are many reasons why a company can cut someone and in many cases the person is smart to keep things positive and stay in touch (depending on the industry).
They turned to Jonathan for insight on the past of D&D (3rd ed) and he was really positive of 4th ed (he said something like that it was the best edition of D&D ever). There should be a podcast out there, since a guy in the room was recording, but I don't know where to find it (I've asked on the con boards).
-SYB
Is it even bloodied yet?
Yeah, inappropriate is funnier.
Pretty much.
And no, not yet.
So, I'm going to try out a new crossbow rogue character tonight. I'm hoping to put some of the resident bow rangers to shame.
Superior or Hand?
-SYB
Unfortunately, this thread seems to have both damage reduction and regeneration.
-SYB
There's got to be SOMETHING that'll bypass the regen.
Maybe being attacked by a Martial Controller can stave off it's regeneration.
Superior or Hand?
Superior. With some good tactical movement I figure I can get 1d10+2d6+4 almost every attack.
-SYB
-SYB
We tell people that we invented the internet and see how long it takes for them to realize it isn't true.
You mean... you didn't actually invent the internet?
You mean... you didn't actually invent the internet?
Of course not...unless one of us is actually Al Gore. ;)
I mean, I think that's what this is for. I never read the OP.
You guys got to play Monk?
The subject of errata and playtesting came up at GameStorm. I asked Rob and Andy about getting more support for this. I said something along the lines of "We in the RPGA are your biggest player base and it seems as if many of the playtested content sees great revisions (Valorous Bard) but those not playtested do not see the same revisions (Battlerager). Could we see playtest material show up in the final issue of Dragon/Dungeon so we can provide this service to you?" Andy replied that playtesting was a bit of an experiment and that it had so far worked really well and completely exceeded their expectations. He said he did want to see more playtesting (and for the RPGA), but that they had to be careful that the amount they included was equal to what they could process (not to get caught with too much feeback they can't actually digest).
Superior. With some good tactical movement I figure I can get 1d10+2d6+4 almost every attack.
Hmmm. My crossbow rogue is looking at getting 3d8+4 (more, really) consistently. Then again, he is planning on being an "in your face" crossbow rogue...
Yes, he is a Drow rogue with Drow Fighting Style, allowing hiim to use his crossbow at melee without provoking, and plans to take the Backstabber and crossbow feats, which will turn both his sneak attack and hand crossbow dice into d8s...
-SYB
Just once I'd like to see a drow cleric.
-SYB
Look, but not likely to be something I would play...
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Belgos, level 1
Drow, Cleric
Build: Devoted Cleric
Background: Impiltur
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 11, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 16.
Starting Ability Scores
Str 10, Con 11, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 14.
AC: 16 Fort: 10 Reflex: 13 Will: 15
HP: 28 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 7
TRAINED SKILLS
Religion, Insight, Heal, Diplomacy.
FEATS
1: Ritual Caster
1: Implement Expertise (holy symbol)
POWERS
1, At-Will: Lance of Faith
1, At-Will: Sacred Flame
1, Encounter: Divine Glow
1, Daily: Beacon of Hope
ITEMS
Ritual Book, Chainmail, Holy Symbol, Adventurer's Kit, Hand Crossbow, Dagger, Crossbow Bolts (40)
RITUALS
Gentle Repose, Brew Potion
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Hmmm. My crossbow rogue is looking at getting 3d8+4 (more, really) consistently. Then again, he is planning on being an "in your face" crossbow rogue...
Yeah, once he has leveled I'm picking up Backstabber, so 1d10+2d8. I looked at going the Drow hand-crossbow route, but I liked the range and higher proficiency bonus on the Superior Crossbow.
The concept seemed much more 'pulpish' and vivid if the crossbow is a hulking superior crossbow that she has no business wielding than a hand crossbow.
From an optimization standpoint, they are really close. You don't really need the minor, so the load is not a big deal. There are some feats that favor hand, but the superior takes up fewer feats, which might be an advantage in the long run. The damage is pretty comparable. I'm not one to go out of my way for a particular build vs another that fits my concept over a couple of damage points.
-SYB
-SYB
-SYB
-SYB
The rest of the internet is for funny pics.
Who says it can't be here too?
Kinda sad that the other major brutal scoundrel at-will power is basically worthless to a crossbow rogue.
-SYB
There are a couple of places where that happens. But, there are the multiclass feat options to replace weak powers. And, we all know Martial Power 2 is a certainty!
-SYB
LEt US AcCELRaTE OUr PLAnS.
THIS UNIt DECLArES IT IS TiME fOR A [i]LIGhTNINg RoUND[/i]!
FoLLOwINg THIs POSt - DEAtH NoW COMeS in 60-MInUTE PACKAgES.
ThIS UnIT, BEInG ImMORTaL, REMAiNS IMMuNE.
This is what they wanted Gleemax to become. Behold its awesome power!!!!!
PoWEr Is EvERYTHInG.
Do NOt BeLIEvE THe LiES THaT SAY OTHErWISE.
GAmE CoNtINUEs. LiGHTNiNG rOUND ReSuMEs - 5 POsTS AfTER THIS OnE.
Wait, what's going on?
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!
-SYB
*waits for zapping*
Five posts later. What happens now?
-SYB
Something wonderful.....
-SYB
Also, this April fools design is offencive to my very existence.
I know better than to click a link from a stranger.
-SYB
I think we all do by this point.
-SYB
In the immortal words: You like me, you really like me.
Prize me, please. I'd prefer "Conversation Stopper".
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
-SYB
ThE MEaTSACKs HaVE WOn.
PRiZEs WiLL Be SuBMiT ToMORrOW. THReAD REmAINs OpEN FOr CONGRAtULATIOnS AND COMiSSERAtION.
THIs UNIt iS PLEAsED WItH THE REsULTs.
I was Hoping the rAndom non-capItaLization Would lead tO an uLterior niFty mesSage or someThing similArly cRazy.
ALL iS FUNCtIONINg WItHIN ExPECTEd PArAMATeRS.
PAnIC IS UNbECOMING, FLEsHBAGs.
Really, I would have gladly taken the title from you, but I would have felt bad. Truly.
I don't think he saw what I did there.
I don't think he saw what I did there.
Hehe, I didn't.
Blame being in a Microsoft Certification Boot Camp.
Or me being Gleemaxed.
Or the moon.
Just don't blame me. ^_^
I mean, 22 months counts as pretty dead right?
*puts away his necromancer's wand*