We hold RPGA GameDay every Saturday at our local Comic/Games Store. There is one particular session GM at our RPGA GameDay (he doesn't always GM) that has a specific ruling on Sunrods and how we can use them. So here is a scenario to keep it basic: Our group will come upon a situation where it is dark and hard to see, so we "crack" a Sunrod and try to wedge it on our belt to keep a free hand (or in another case try to stick it onto a backpack partially exposed). This said session GM seems to believe that this task can't be done because the Sunrod is simply too big to fit (claimed it to be size of average magic rod length 2-3ft). It clearly says in the 3.5 section of SRD and D&D Wiki that a Sunrod is, "This 1-foot-long, gold-tipped, iron rod glows brightly when struck....". However, since Sunrods don't have a detailed description in 4E he seems to think it takes on trait that of a larger rod. Some may say just toss the sunrod on the ground when an encounter starts, but we have in the past and seems the enemies love to take the sunrod and/or get rid of it.
I have offered to give up actions (during encounters) to properly wedge the sunrod on my belt or backpack and he still seems to think we can't do it. I know this arguement is silly but I'm determined to make a point and get an answer. Also, is there an item that acts like a belt pouch for magic rods....belt with holsters for numerous magic rods? Something a magic user would use as a container for rods and wands for easy accessiblility during encounters?
Best Regards,
--Mark
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I appologize if this thread is in the wrong place. If any moderators could move the thread to appropriate places so I can get an optimal answer.
We hold RPGA GameDay every Saturday at our local Comic/Games Store. There is one particular session GM at our RPGA GameDay (he doesn't always GM) that has a specific ruling on Sunrods and how we can use them. So here is a scenario to keep it basic: Our group will come upon a situation where it is dark and hard to see, so we "crack" a Sunrod and try to wedge it on our belt to keep a free hand (or in another case try to stick it onto a backpack partially exposed). This said session GM seems to believe that this task can't be done because the Sunrod is simply too big to fit (claimed it to be size of average magic rod length 2-3ft). It clearly says in the 3.5 section of SRD and D&D Wiki that a Sunrod is, "This 1-foot-long, gold-tipped, iron rod glows brightly when struck....". However, since Sunrods don't have a detailed description in 4E he seems to think it takes on trait that of a larger rod. Some may say just toss the sunrod on the ground when an encounter starts, but we have in the past and seems the enemies love to take the sunrod and/or get rid of it.
I have offered to give up actions (during encounters) to properly wedge the sunrod on my belt or backpack and he still seems to think we can't do it. I know this arguement is silly but I'm determined to make a point and get an answer. Also, is there an item that acts like a belt pouch for magic rods....belt with holsters for numerous magic rods? Something a magic user would use as a container for rods and wands for easy accessiblility during encounters?
Best Regards,
--Mark
StillPoint Cards & Comics
-Card Games
-Board Games
-Pen & Paper RPG Games
-Comics & Trade Paperbacks
Southern Massachusetts
Bristol County
120 South Main St.
Fall River, MA 02723
508-674-5569
There is no "official" ruling on sunrods that I know of, so it sounds like this falls into the realm of "its up to your DM to decide."
"Sunrod: This minor magic item sheds bright light to
a radius of 20 squares for 4 hours before burning out." -source 4e Player's Handbook
As a DM, I have always seen sunrods as an item that worked kinda like a combination between Roman-candles (fireworks) & road-flares, and would present a fire hazard if they were too close to clothing. My reasoning behind this is the belief that the light they provide comes by means of an alchemical reaction after being activated.
**Note that the 3.5 description states that it becomes "burned" out and the 4e description states "burning" out**
I have never seen anything to give me reason to view them as being able to use like "glow-sticks" which contain their light source inside a protective plastic that lets the light shine through.
I'm sorry if this doesn't actually give you a "rules" perspective, but maybe by considering this you can justify why (regardless of size) a sunrod would not be able to be held by clothes (such as a belt) or backpacks once activated.
Sunrod: This 1-foot-long, gold-tipped, iron rod glows brightly when struck. It clearly illuminates a 30-foot radius and provides shadowy illumination in a 60-foot radius. It glows for 6 hours, after which the gold tip is burned out and worthless." -source 3.5 Players Handbook
"Sunrod: This minor magic item sheds bright light to
a radius of 20 squares for 4 hours before burning out." -source 4e Player's Handbook
As a DM, I have always seen sunrods as an item that worked kinda like a combination between Roman-candles (fireworks) & road-flares, and would present a fire hazard if they were too close to clothing. My reasoning behind this is the belief that the light they provide comes by means of an alchemical reaction after being activated.
**Note that the 3.5 description states that it becomes "burned" out and the 4e description states "burning" out**
I have never seen anything to give me reason to view them as being able to use like "glow-sticks" which contain their light source inside a protective plastic that lets the light shine through.
I'm sorry if this doesn't actually give you a "rules" perspective, but maybe by considering this you can justify why (regardless of size) a sunrod would not be able to be held by clothes (such as a belt) or backpacks once activated.
Hrmmm......"It glows for 6 hours, after which the gold tip is burned out and worthless." < It seems theres contradiction in this reasoning. Since it says "glows for 6 hours" people say it to be more of a passive magical light and not a "burning, hot light". As opposed to that description if it said, "It burns for 6 hours", then I would think that it was burning and/or hot light. To be honest I think "burned out" is a figure of speech to the tips dimming or dying down.
I don't know thats just how our groups see to it.
Tell me what you think!
Best Regards,
--Mark
StillPoint Cards & Comics
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I run sunrods a lot like I'd run glowsticks, personally. But that's me, not a universal truth. I've also gotten a little sad that sunrods trivialize light sources, so I can see where your GM is coming from. End of the day, he gets to make the decision at his table, however. It's not like he's saying you can only roll half your dice on a successful attack. This is a pretty minor deal.
How sunrods work is a classic example of the type of thing that is a DM's call. Usually, this sort of thing doesn't get decided so much as assumed by group consensus (something that can be jarring when you play in a different area where the things everyone knows to be true aren't the same as the ones you take for granted), but if a DM feels strongly about it, that's the way it works at their table.
I treat sunrods more like glowsticks myself, but I can see where he's coming from: Once you get to the point where a 2 gp expenditure, having differences in lighting in an encounter is a waste of the author's time. I can't remember the last time it mattered which of my PCs had low-light vision and which had normal vision.
To be honest, I think your DM is probably more in line with the intent of the rules than the glowstick interpretation, requiring that the benefit of being able to ignore the illumination rules must be paid for by having at least one person in the party who only uses a light shield or otherwise has a hand free to hold something. The alternative options, of course, are to buy an everburning torch (50 gp, illuminates 5 squares) or a floating lantern (680 gp, illuminates 10 squares).
As far as the description goes, it should be noted that the artwork on PH p. 221 shows an item identical to the sunrod shown in the 3.5e PHB, so I'm fine continuing to describe them as looking the same.
Ultimately, it sounds as if the ruling is not fun at your table. I would, after a session, let the DM know that this isn't fun. Preferably this is done in a non-confrontational manner. "Hey, I really want to thank you for running that game. I had a good time. However, there is one thing that brings me down..."
If you can have that conversation with one other player (but not the whole table), and frame the conversation as "looking for options", the DM might be willing to consider some way that you could mitigate the issue and stay on the fun track.
Hrmmm......"It glows for 6 hours, after which the gold tip is burned out and worthless." < It seems theres contradiction in this reasoning. Since it says "glows for 6 hours" people say it to be more of a passive magical light and not a "burning, hot light". As opposed to that description if it said, "It burns for 6 hours", then I would think that it was burning and/or hot light. To be honest I think "burned out" is a figure of speech to the tips dimming or dying down.
I agree with that. I've never pictured a glowrod as being any kind of active flame; it's just throwing off light (and, I agree that "burned out" seems to be a figure of speech, since that's a common term (at least in America) for what happens to a light bulb).
I also think that, if a glowrod had any kind of flame or fire, there'd be something in the description that'd indicate you could use it to start a fire (compare to a tindertwig in 3.x).
My characters use sunrods quite often, both in 3.x and 4E, and I'll commonly use them by jamming the rod into a backpack or something, leaving the glowing tip exposed, and freeing up both hands. I've had a few DMs not particularly like that idea, and, if so, I find another way to use it. I do acknowledge, it's probably a tiny bit of cheese to use it in that way.
At any rate...as others have noted, this isn't going to be something where you're going to get an official RPGA ruling. It's a core rules issue, and, as the rules aren't clear, it's DM discretion.
in 4e sunrods are clearly magical (minor magic item that sheds bright light per PHB), not alchemical.
if you postulated a burning flame of any time, you have introduced a possible alternative use, fire starter or metal cutter, etc. -- bad idea in my book.
So long as the sunrod is exposed in part, why as a DM should I care if some fraction of the surface is hidden by a person's hand or their belt or stuck in their mouth?
I suggest in most situations, the DM is being too detail oriented for 4e. This is high fantasy, get with the program. Relax and have fun.
Keith
Hrmmm......"It glows for 6 hours, after which the gold tip is burned out and worthless." < It seems theres contradiction in this reasoning. Since it says "glows for 6 hours" people say it to be more of a passive magical light and not a "burning, hot light". As opposed to that description if it said, "It burns for 6 hours", then I would think that it was burning and/or hot light. To be honest I think "burned out" is a figure of speech to the tips dimming or dying down.
Given this perspective, I would suggest making a formal house ruling on the matter and writing it down in a notebook that all players may review prior to any given game session. Anytime similar issues arise that do not have a definitive RPGA definition/ruling, then the whoever the "primary DM for the house" is should make a judgement call & add the ruling to the notebook. This helps keep things running smoothly for future games where new players may be at the table.
Best Regards,
--Mark
StillPoint Cards & Comics
-Card Games
-Board Games
-Pen & Paper RPG Games
-Comics & Trade Paperbacks
Southern Massachusetts
Bristol County
120 South Main St.
Fall River, MA 02723
www.stillpointcomics.com
The main part of my DM's arguement is that he thinks that, "You are incorrect in that Mark, I think of a sunrod as being about the same length as a torch [2-2 1/2 feet] and that is too unweildy to be stuffed in a backpack or hung from a belt...". This was his exact words from our store forums. He agrees that the Sunrod isn't "hot", he only thinks its too big to weild like said above. He says that since the D&D Wiki description of the sunrod is 3.5E that it doesn't pertain to 4E.....but I think otherwise. He says that there are no resources that contradict him in anyway so I showed him the D&D Wiki 3.5 1ft description of the sunrod and he pushed it off saying that it isn't 4E. All I ask is if there are any resources generating a 1ft-long sunrod description for 4E.
Write CS and ask them if the size of it allows it to be stuffed in a backpack or belt so as to leave hands free.
RAW: A sunrod weighs 1 pound. An everburning torch weighs 1 pound. An everburning torch can be stowed in a bag or a pouch. A magical rod is described as a short, heavy cylinder (which weighs 2 pounds).
Look at the picture on page 221. In it are depicted most of the adventuring gear you can buy from the PH. I believe in the foreground of the picture is the staff, rod, wand and orb. My guess is the item on the extreme right (looks like a stick with a globe at one end) is probably the everyburning torch, and the short, fat cylinder in the back left, just in front of the bag pack is probably the sunrod. Most of the other items are fairly obvious so a process of elimination led me to these conclusions.
Keith
My guess is the item on the extreme right (looks like a stick with a globe at one end) is probably the everyburning torch, and the short, fat cylinder in the back left, just in front of the bag pack is probably the sunrod.
The item between the pile of candles and the pouch of sling bullets looks identical to the picture of the sunrod in the 3.5e PHB, so I would have to assume that it looks the same as ever.