Question on rules for mounts. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Question on rules for mounts.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
skippydrumskins
May 17, 2009 3:17:06 Ok, I recently ran Bald 1-4 I think it was, and there were mad wraiths, that had the touch of chaos ability which is.
+9 vs. Will; 2d6 + 4 psychic damage, and the target moves up
to its speed and makes a basic attack against its nearest ally as a
free action.
Two of the party members were on mounts, one of them on a climbing lizard that was on the ceiling. The wraith flew up to the ceiling and attacked the caster that was on the climbing lizard. The lizard could reach another ally, but the caster argued that the attack was on him, not his lizard, so he decided to attack his lizard counting it as his ally since the effect was on the caster and not the mount. Was this a legal move, or since the caster controls the mount would he still try to move closer to a different ally to try and attack them?
#2
Kensan_Oni
May 17, 2009 14:22:12 Well, that is an interesting question... By the rules, Mounts count as Equipment (AV pg 11, PHB pg 222). As such, I am not sure if it can be counted as an ally, as it is not specifically addressed in the rules. (By the same measure, neither can the Spirit Companion, Conjurations. Although a Beast Companion is considered one.)

My ruling would have been no, and they would have had to attack a different target. Even if they had dismounted, the Mount at that point is uncontrolled and is not an ally, so I can't really see a way around it.
#3
_Mithreinmaethor_
May 17, 2009 14:34:06 There are 2 types of Lizard mounts, Draft Giant Lizard and Riding Giant Lizard. Neither of which can climb on the ceiling. Both have a climb speed but do not have spider climbing speed which they would need to move on the ceiling.

Climb [Movement Mode]: A monster with a climb speed can move on vertical surfaces at the listed speed without making an Athletics check. However, it can’t shift or charge while climbing.
Spider Climb: The monster can climb across overhanging or horizontal surfaces (such as ceilings) at the stated speed without making a check.

Also please read p.46 & 47 in the DMG. There are a lot of answers there for you. Please make sure to correct your player with the Lizard about the movement modes especially if it is an LFR game.
#4
Dragon9
May 17, 2009 23:03:16 Mounts are not allied creatures. As such, it wouldn't count for those purposes (or for flanking if your spearated). He should have attacked someone else.
#5
_Mithreinmaethor_
May 18, 2009 21:04:12 Why do I have a feeling that he is not discussing the Lizards not being able to climb on ceilings with his players
#6
Matt_James
May 19, 2009 14:54:52 Side question that is somewhat related. Giant Riding Lizards have something called "Swampwalk". Anyone know what this is? It is listed under their movement modes.
#7
WolfStar76
May 19, 2009 15:28:29 Swamp Walk: The creature ignores difficult terrain if that terrain is the result of bog, mud, or shallow water

If you have DDI you can search for "Terrain walk" (use the quotes) to get this and other similar types of movement in the glossary.

I believe it's listed in the back of the Monster Manual 1.
#8
Matt_James
May 19, 2009 15:34:46 Thanks WS!
#9
skippydrumskins
May 22, 2009 5:28:54 Alright thanks for the input, though there was a valid argument made for mounts as allies, that in the monster manual under the dire wolf, their ability reads "you gain combat advantage for any ally adjacent to the target not including your mount" that is the only text in any of the books that I can remotely find referring to mounts as allies, and I will discuss the horizontal vertical movement with him

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 skippydrumskins May 17, 2009 3:17:06	Ok, I recently ran Bald 1-4 I think it was, and there were mad wraiths, that had the touch of chaos ability which is. +9 vs. Will; 2d6 + 4 psychic damage, and the target moves up to its speed and makes a basic attack against its nearest ally as a free action. Two of the party members were on mounts, one of them on a climbing lizard that was on the ceiling. The wraith flew up to the ceiling and attacked the caster that was on the climbing lizard. The lizard could reach another ally, but the caster argued that the attack was on him, not his lizard, so he decided to attack his lizard counting it as his ally since the effect was on the caster and not the mount. Was this a legal move, or since the caster controls the mount would he still try to move closer to a different ally to try and attack them?
#2 Kensan_Oni May 17, 2009 14:22:12	Well, that is an interesting question... By the rules, Mounts count as Equipment (AV pg 11, PHB pg 222). As such, I am not sure if it can be counted as an ally, as it is not specifically addressed in the rules. (By the same measure, neither can the Spirit Companion, Conjurations. Although a Beast Companion is considered one.) My ruling would have been no, and they would have had to attack a different target. Even if they had dismounted, the Mount at that point is uncontrolled and is not an ally, so I can't really see a way around it.
#3 _Mithreinmaethor_ May 17, 2009 14:34:06	There are 2 types of Lizard mounts, Draft Giant Lizard and Riding Giant Lizard. Neither of which can climb on the ceiling. Both have a climb speed but do not have spider climbing speed which they would need to move on the ceiling. *Climb* [Movement Mode]: A monster with a climb speed can move on *vertical surfaces* at the listed speed without making an Athletics check. However, it can’t shift or charge while climbing. *Spider Climb: The monster can climb across overhanging or horizontal surfaces (such as ceilings)* at the stated speed without making a check. Also please read p.46 & 47 in the DMG. There are a lot of answers there for you. Please make sure to correct your player with the Lizard about the movement modes especially if it is an LFR game.
#4 Dragon9 May 17, 2009 23:03:16	Mounts are not allied creatures. As such, it wouldn't count for those purposes (or for flanking if your spearated). He should have attacked someone else.
#5 _Mithreinmaethor_ May 18, 2009 21:04:12	Why do I have a feeling that he is not discussing the Lizards not being able to climb on ceilings with his players
#6 Matt_James May 19, 2009 14:54:52	Side question that is somewhat related. Giant Riding Lizards have something called "Swampwalk". Anyone know what this is? It is listed under their movement modes.
#7 WolfStar76 May 19, 2009 15:28:29	Swamp Walk: The creature ignores difficult terrain if that terrain is the result of bog, mud, or shallow water If you have DDI you can search for "Terrain walk" (use the quotes) to get this and other similar types of movement in the glossary. I believe it's listed in the back of the Monster Manual 1.
#8 Matt_James May 19, 2009 15:34:46	Thanks WS!
#9 skippydrumskins May 22, 2009 5:28:54	Alright thanks for the input, though there was a valid argument made for mounts as allies, that in the monster manual under the dire wolf, their ability reads "you gain combat advantage for any ally adjacent to the target not including your mount" that is the only text in any of the books that I can remotely find referring to mounts as allies, and I will discuss the horizontal vertical movement with him