Assuming that they finish entry of GenCon in the near future, I'd guess that they would close the duration soon, and that would probably mean cards mailing out sometime early next year. I suppose it's also possible, at this late date, that they'd just combine the Summer and Fall durations, since the Fall duration would normally end on 12/31 anyway.
AFAIK, there's been no information on what the content of the cards will be.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga/news/20080924
Now, if they still don't have Gen Con done, then what Kenobi said about next year sounds correct.
-c
Now, if they still don't have Gen Con done, then what Kenobi said about next year sounds correct.
Yeah, I haven't yet seen any notes from HQ saying "it's done". All of my GenCon slots have finally made it into the system; the last one showed up late last week.
I checked with the powers that be on this, here is what I know so far:
We’re still in the process of finishing results entry for Gen Con Indy. It will be done soon. We have no ETA yet. However, we are not pulling D&D Rewards until after the Gen Con Indy entry is complete, so all Gen Con reporting will count towards their rewards for this cycle.
If we still haven't heard anything new by then, I'll try to get another update after the Thanksgiving holiday (so, like, Monday-ish next week).
Keep up the good VCL job!
-c
http://www.wizards.com/rpga/downloads/RPGA_Rewards_Cards_2008.zip
Now where's my letter!?!?!?
2) I haven't seen the file yet, but I hope they haven't decided to just give all players as many cards as they want. As someone else mentioned, it totally devalues the whole Rewards process.
The password will be mailed out in the RPGA mailing, I am assuming.
My guess is that, yes, it is a blanket "thank you" to all RPGA members, and cuts waaaaaaaay down on the ebay profiteering, which would obviously be of concern to WotC. It would also save WotC a ton on printing too.
After all, it's all about the play opportunities, right?
Unless I misunderstand. I'm not sure. I "hope" that this means that you get the password for the pdf, which includes all the 2008 Cards, but the mailing itself will include a selection of new, printed 2009 Cards. It makes the 2008 Cards that I've earned and collected through other means somewhat worthless (though still fundamentally cooler because they're on nice cardstock), but at least it will maintain the "play more, get more cool stuff" philosophy that I'm partial to.
There are some long term RPGA players in my group that view the cards they have earned as a real badge of pride. If that is diluted, they are not going to be happy.
In fact I didn't see the PDF in the download section until I'd read this thread.
(and so far my attempts to guess the password are reminding my why I'm not a world-famous hacker - does anyone know the name of Chris' pets?
)This download could be a way of getting players their rewards while attempts are made to correct the printing issue that plagued the previous shipment. I wonder if the download will somehow tie to individual accomplishment, or RPGA Number being printed on the cert? If not, every member will have unlimited access to every card. That would defeat the purpose of the random reward, and the coolness of trading/swapping to collect the set (or cards you want/need for your PC).
As for the DM miniatures, it would be a major bummer if those went away. I say this because it is a more detailed process to enter results, and I feel we should be given the product for the extra effort.
All speculation at this point, as we eagerly await word from the RPGA.
Good gaming,
-Timmy!
Colorado Springs
RPGA Club: Steele Justice
There is nothing you have to download. The current D&D Rewards mailing will ship within the next couple of weeks and you are on the list to get rewards.
Thank You
Wonder what that means.
I haven't heard anything more than you all.
In fact I didn't see the PDF in the download section until I'd read this thread.
(and so far my attempts to guess the password are reminding my why I'm not a world-famous hacker - does anyone know the name of Chris' pets?
Don't even try to guess Chris's password scheme. Having looked at the IUZ and Furyondy adventures from his tenure as Triad, it seems that he picked adventure passwords based on the first thing he saw/heard when he was ready to password the mod...
There is nothing you have to download. The current D&D Rewards mailing will ship within the next couple of weeks and you are on the list to get rewards.
It looks like reward cards are going to be mailed out like normal, based on the language in that e-mail. I'm thinking that download was not for public consumption.
"In the next couple of weeks" sounds a bit soon. I thought reward mailings were gonna be held until after Dec 31 to accommodate two duration periods - meaning rewards would be mailed in four to eight weeks from now.
Who knows? I think the download is not for us (the general public), in any regard.
It looks like reward cards are going to be mailed out like normal, based on the language in that e-mail. I'm thinking that download was not for public consumption.
"In the next couple of weeks" sounds a bit soon. I thought reward mailings were gonna be held until after Dec 31 to accommodate two duration periods - meaning rewards would be mailed in four to eight weeks from now.
Who knows? I think the download is not for us (the general public), in any regard.
It's possible CustServ's canned response is always a couple weeks to any question about reward mailings.
The last Rewards Cards Update said they would indeed accommodate two duration periods (Summer and Fall) and that the mail out was scheduled for late November (though on this board, they've mentioned that reporting GenCon has slowed down matters somewhat).
They are in addition and will become available when you receive your D&D Rewards which will ship within the next couple of weeks and the code contained in the letter will allow you access.
Thank You
"In the next couple of weeks" sounds a bit soon. I thought reward mailings were gonna be held until after Dec 31 to accommodate two duration periods - meaning rewards would be mailed in four to eight weeks from now."
The last Rewards Cards Update said they would indeed accommodate two duration periods (Summer and Fall) and that the mail out was scheduled for late November (though on this board, they've mentioned that reporting GenCon has slowed down matters somewhat).
This mailing *is* going to cover two periods. Spring and Summer (I think, I've frankly lost track at this point).
The holdoff was to get GenCon data into the Summer mailing period. The combined mailing is because the mailing vendor for the Spring mailing never actaully mailed anything.
So, take a look at your earned rewards, and know that they're supposed to be split across two mailings.
There are some long term RPGA players in my group that view the cards they have earned as a real badge of pride. If that is diluted, they are not going to be happy.
And being able to buy them at ebay doesn't dillute them?
And being able to buy them at ebay doesn't dillute them?
There will always be a secondary market for any physical product, especially collectible ones.
And being able to buy them at ebay doesn't dillute them?
No, not really. After all, there is only a secondary market because the cards are viewed as an exclusive item. In some ways, the eBay sales validates the pride that the players have in earning them.
Besides, anyone who is willing to pay eBay prices is marking themselves as a fairly serious player. No one who isn't really into the game is going to pay $20-$30 a card. It becomes a self selecting distinction. If someone shows up with reward cards, they are either a long term player, or at the very least a committed newer player.That's very different from having someone who started playing last week show up with a fist full of reward cards.
No, not really. After all, there is only a secondary market because the cards are viewed as an exclusive item.
Or viewed as a tool that improves performance.
Besides, anyone who is willing to pay eBay prices is marking themselves as a fairly serious player. No one who isn't really into the game is going to pay $20-$30 a card.
I bought the IMHO most usefull cards from set 1 (reroll at-will attack, take 10 in skillcheck) for $6.50 and $7 respectively (and with the weak $/€-rate it was even cheaper for me).
From what I saw at this time it were only the race-unlock and spellscared-unlock cards that were that expensive (and I agree it's ridiculous to pay that much for a card, I would never pay more than $7.50)
I would be glad if from now on everyone can just print out the cards he needs. Takes care of the situation when you have two divine classes without cards but only one reroll at-will prayer card left over to lend them).
I see no reason why they couldn't do both: send out random physical cards like before but also make the whole set avaible for download and allow the downloaded and selfprinted cards at the games. The players who view them as a badge of honor can still be happy abput their real cards and the players who view them as tools can finally have the right tool for the right job.
I bought the IMHO most usefull cards from set 1 (reroll at-will attack, take 10 in skillcheck) for $6.50 and $7 respectively (and with the weak $/€-rate it was even cheaper for me).
That must have been a while ago. A couple months ago I took a look at the eBay sales out of curiosity and have been following them since for laughs. In the last couple months, I don't think I have seen any card go for less than $20 US. A few weeks ago, the arcane at-will reroll card went for $80. Spellscarred, Orc and Quest cards go for $60-$100 on a regular basis. The whole thing is rather unbelievable. Personally, I think the market is rather inflated right now because it has been so long since any cards were mailed out.
I see no reason why they couldn't do both: send out random physical cards like before but also make the whole set avaible for download and allow the downloaded and selfprinted cards at the games. The players who view them as a badge of honor can still be happy abput their real cards and the players who view them as tools can finally have the right tool for the right job.
Seriously? The value and pride in the cards is their exclusivity. It would save them the cost of a buck worth of card stock, but that's about it. So, if everyone gets these cards just for playing, why call them 'rewards' at all? If the RPGA does not have the ability to run the rewards program they should just cancel it. If the whole point is for everyone to get cards, just add them to Dragon instead of pretending they are some sort of earned bonus.
That must have been a while ago. A couple months ago I took a look at the eBay sales out of curiosity and have been following them since for laughs. In the last couple months, I don't think I have seen any card go for less than $20 US. A few weeks ago, the arcane at-will reroll card went for $80. Spellscarred, Orc and Quest cards go for $60-$100 on a regular basis. The whole thing is rather unbelievable. Personally, I think the market is rather inflated right now because it has been so long since any cards were mailed out.
Maybe I was just being truly lucky. At the time I bought them the only ones who topped $20 were the spellscared and race cards (and neither option intrigues me, I wouldn't have bought them even if they were only $5). But that's not the point the of the thread anyway (actually I think the point of the thread has already been dealt with so it doesn't matter anyway)
Seriously? The value and pride in the cards is their exclusivity. It would save them the cost of a buck worth of card stock, but that's about it. So, if everyone gets these cards just for playing, why call them 'rewards' at all? If the RPGA does not have the ability to run the rewards program they should just cancel it. If the whole point is for everyone to get cards, just add them to Dragon instead of pretending they are some sort of earned bonus.
Well, the exclusiveness would then come from the fact that some players could show off their glossy cardstock paper while others only have their selfprinted copypaper cards. Personally I'd rather have a selfprinted arcane card then a cardstock divine card received as random reward but without use for my arcane character.
And why not just add them to dragon (except for the inconvenience of having to pay for it, I don't subscribe to any DDI stuff and do not plan to do so)? That gives dragon readers who don't participate in the RPGA the option to introduce them as houserules to their home games. I really think that's a very good idea: Add them to Dragon so that the non-RPGA players might use them and also make them avaible as a free download to the RPGA players (so the reward is not having to pay for them with dragon). As they have to design them for the RPGA anyway, that would fill a few pages of Dragon at no extra cost.
And, unfortunately, I don't think the original post of the thread has ever been addressed. It's just been hijacked multiple times for related questions.
Well, the exclusiveness would then come from the fact that some players could show off their glossy cardstock paper while others only have their selfprinted copypaper cards.
Don't assume copy paper. There are those out there who will take the PDF versions to a print/copy shop and have them printed professionally on glossy cardstock. Wouldn't be overly expensive. Certainly less than buying the real ones on eBay, anyway. WotC could make the file ones different (black&white, a big "THIS WAS PRINTED" watermark across them, etc), but even then you're still taking away some of the exclusivity.
Personally, I hope that the zip file is something completely different. Something that's never been printed in cardstock form and never will be. (Not by WotC, anyway.) If the PDF file is some good basic cards that anyone can use while the mailings are something completely different, that would allow newer players to take advantage of the cards while still allowing more experienced/dedicated players use of the cards only available through the mail.
(I don't think I've ever been this curious about a file that's sitting on my desktop...)
And, unfortunately, I don't think the original post of the thread has ever been addressed. It's just been hijacked multiple times for related questions.
"A couple of weeks."
Anytime I or anyone i know has ever asked them about Rewards mailings, the answer is "a couple" or "several" weeks or months. Specific dates even for when they mailed them are never given out to my knowledge.
As for content, no one ever knows that until the receive their cards.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Personally I'd rather have a selfprinted arcane card then a cardstock divine card received as random reward but without use for my arcane character.
If I understand the original premise of the cards correctly, the point is to trade with other players to get the cards you want. To trade with them, you must seek them out and meet them. And in that way, the user group intermixes, one of the main goals of the RPGA.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
*lots of guessing about the pdf*
The RPGA Downloads page currently reads:
As a special thank-you to all existing members of the RPGA Player and GM Rewards program, we've included PDFs of all the cards produced for Rewards mailings in 2008. Printed copies of these cards are legal for RPGA play. You must use the code included with your Rewards letter to open the document. This is a PDF file inside a zip archive.
I would assume that is correct until it is updated to say otherwise.
The RPGA Downloads page currently reads:Originally Posted by wizards.com
As a special thank-you to all existing members of the RPGA Player and GM Rewards program, we've included PDFs of all the cards produced for Rewards mailings in 2008. Printed copies of these cards are legal for RPGA play. You must use the code included with your Rewards letter to open the document. This is a PDF file inside a zip archive.
I would assume that is correct until it is updated to say otherwise.
Yeah, I know. I just find it very depressing and am trying to exist in a state of denial (very nice river this time of year, or so I hear). If everyone gets unlimited access to the cards, what are they rewarding? Your continued heartbeat? The ability to wake up in the morning (or afternoon, depending on the individual)?
If they had wanted to make a couple bonus cards available to everyone as a sorry for the delays, that would be nice. Removing the exclusive aspect of all the older cards is kind of a slap in the face to the players who HAVE stuck around long enough to have earned them.
Yeah, I know. I just find it very depressing and am trying to exist in a state of denial (very nice river this time of year, or so I hear). If everyone gets unlimited access to the cards, what are they rewarding? Your continued heartbeat? The ability to wake up in the morning (or afternoon, depending on the individual)?
If they had wanted to make a couple bonus cards available to everyone as a sorry for the delays, that would be nice. Removing the exclusive aspect of all the older cards is kind of a slap in the face to the players who HAVE stuck around long enough to have earned them.
I'm not sure what's in this either however it's better than hearing:
"I'm sorry..."
"...it'll be a couple of weeks/months/etc"
"...we understand your frustration..."
"...we will certainly make a note of that..."
"...we do value you as a customer..."
...and etc over and over again.
Believe me. I work in Customer Service Call Centers, I should know.
I bet future rewards cards are the old fashioned format and due to the whole Gencon reporting issues, RPGA/DCI database,etc that this is just a cleaner, more cost effective way to reward players who had to put up with all this problems.
Those who got the cards the old fashioned way still got to use them for 4-5 months - clearly worth something.
Though, I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar late in 2009 - basically there is no long term value to these cards.
I know I for one got rewards during the last mailing but didn't get the Zent card that I wanted and have had to pass on games that I wanted to play but didn't want to screw up my chance to play the special it leads to. Being able to get the card will make me very happy.
My question is if everyone can play it without restriction, what makes the special adventure special? Also, what happens for players/characters who played the prerequisite adventures before getting access to the quest card? Do they retroactively meet the requirements? Are they out of luck simply because they assumed the quest would stay exclusive?
While I think the open play is one of the strongest features of LFR, there is such a thing as too open. Long term rewards that mean something for more than a month or two are important. Exclusive rewards that players and characters earn/find/work towards create some of the best opportunities for memorable games. They also encourage a sense of community and competition.
My question is if everyone can play it without restriction, what makes the special adventure special? Also, what happens for players/characters who played the prerequisite adventures before getting access to the quest card? Do they retroactively meet the requirements? Are they out of luck simply because they assumed the quest would stay exclusive?
While I think the open play is one of the strongest features of LFR, there is such a thing as too open. Long term rewards that mean something for more than a month or two are important. Exclusive rewards that players and characters earn/find/work towards create some of the best opportunities for memorable games. They also encourage a sense of community and competition.
However for those that are able to play a lot this is a moot point. For those that can't it creates the "in crowd" or elitist feel that many have complained about in many groups not just in RPGA. By making it special and releasing the cards in mailings and then at the end of the year anyone who got a mailing that year is able to download all the cards from the year, levels the playing field and makes us all the same. Or would you rather keep it so that some are just less fortunate and due to that decide that RPGA events (especially ones that cost) are not worth the time and effort if they are going in at a handicap. I personally see both sides, I feel that mailing out rewards on nice cardstock will give those that play a lot a sense of accomplishment and reward, and then at the end of the year everyone can print their own (not on good cardstock). That way the ones who play a lot have a jump start on others, but in the end we are all sitting at the same table as equals.
However for those that are able to play a lot this is a moot point. For those that can't it creates the "in crowd" or elitist feel that many have complained about in many groups not just in RPGA. By making it special and releasing the cards in mailings and then at the end of the year anyone who got a mailing that year is able to download all the cards from the year, levels the playing field and makes us all the same.
...
That way the ones who play a lot have a jump start on others, but in the end we are all sitting at the same table as equals.
Actually, no I don't agree that all players should be completely equal regardless of their participation. Right now, the bar for getting a set of reward cards is 5 games. At the current mailing rate you would have to find four spare hours hours with your buddies once every two or three months. Even if the mailings get back to their theoretical schedule you are still only talking about roughly one game a month to get a set of cards at every mailing. All things considered, that's a pretty low bar.
So why shouldn't people who put more time and effort into the campaign get more than a token acknowledgment? And why do people that can't put in more than a couple games a year deserve anything with the word Reward in the description? We are not talking about things that unbalance the campaign in a mechanical sense. Your choice of feats has more effect on gameplay than any cards you may or may not have. And if long term players have access to one or two extra modules over the life of the character, it's not like there aren't dozens of other modules to play.
Things like the Delves are perfect for those who want to play occasionally and are not interested in long term play. LFR is a long term, multi-year living campaign. In my mind, that means that it needs to acknowledge that most of the players that stick around for more than a few months are fairly dedicated. History should be built up, both in game and out of it. One of the best parts of a campaign like this is sitting down a table with someone new and having them toss out some legendary equipment or card or whatever that you had only heard of. Or hearing people discuss some epic quest that they had worked hard to qualify for and then overcome.
The type of people that these things matter to are the people that keep everything running. They are the DMs that run at least a game or two every week and the friends who decide to put together a small local con because they want to run and play in new stuff. They are the game shop owners who make sure a table is always available because they love to host a pickup game. To say that all players are equal does a real disservice to the people that keep the living campaigns running at a level above five guys (or gals) sitting in someone's basement. The cards/DM minis and such that have been sent out in the past should not be viewed as the default status quo of the campaign that everyone is entitled to. They should be viewed as valued added based on what people are putting back into the campaign by their participation.
... and wow, that was way more rambling rant than I planned to type
The type of people that these things matter to are the people that keep everything running. They are the DMs that run at least a game or two every week and the friends who decide to put together a small local con because they want to run and play in new stuff. They are the game shop owners who make sure a table is always available because they love to host a pickup game.
So by this I am to take it that in my town Lubbock Texas, we are lucky to be able to have a LFR game once maybe twice a month. I am one of the three chief coordinators here keeping things going, however as someone with a family and not some kid that can put gaming before everything I am not always able to be at every event. So because it is not two or three times a week I am less important than the others that are willing to give up other aspects of life for gaming (and that is said with no negative connotation, as I at one time lived that way). I find that this screams of the type of privilaged thinking that had me hating high school and other areas where one group of people feel they should get more because they do more. That is not what playing a RPG or any game is about, it is about having fun.
I am going to end this part of the conversation and you may feel free to reply, I shall not continue this as it is obvious to me that it will go nowhere.
I am going to end this part of the conversation and you may feel free to reply, I shall not continue this as it is obvious to me that it will go nowhere.
Fair enough. Both our positions and reasoning are clear. For that matter, I don't think either philosophy taken to an extreme would make for a very healthy campaign. Besides, while interesting, this whole sidetrack is rather off topic. I hope there is some update as to the status of the cards soon.
One of the best parts of a campaign like this is sitting down a table with someone new and having them toss out some legendary equipment or card or whatever that you had only heard of. Or hearing people discuss some epic quest that they had worked hard to qualify for and then overcome.
Couldn't have said it better. I strongly disagree with the almost communist idea of "everyone should be special," which is irrefutably an oxymoron. No offense warderbrad, but I feel pretty strongly that people should in fact get more because they do more, not because of some kind of cliquishness or elitism ... I just feel that this is exactly what the word "reward" means.
Just my two coppers.
I received my only LFR card as a table prize at a local convention. And I still haven't used it on any of my PCs, since it is a spellscarred card, and I don't really see a need for playing with that. Yet.
In order to get any LG cards< I had to spend money I can't afford, in order to keep the playing field for my PC somewhat level.
Basic of the campaign: If you don't have cards, your PC is at a disadvantage. Really.
And, because of the problems witgh the past several mailings, I don't have any of the cards that I have earned, so I dono't feel much of that "sense of accomplishment." Heh.
So, what am I gettign for my effort at running games at the LFGS? Thanks from the players. Which is nice.
What am I getting for all the LG & LFR games I have played? The same thing someone in a non-RPGA campaign gets, an experienced PC.
So, what am I getting for joining the RPGA? Access to the LG regional & core material, LFR modules, and some irritation waiting for my "rewards" for having played for over a year...
Maybe that reward PDF is to soothe the irritations of those of us who have never seen a card mailing, despite being members for multiple attempts?
Example: In my FLGS, I have roughly one and-a-half sets of Set 1. Most of my other players are still pretty new, so they don't have any cards.
I sit down, I pull my two cards of choice, and then I hand out my book to everyone else, so they can pick and choose cards they like. They get to reroll some at-wills, shake off being dazed, slay minions, and the rest of the table wins, because after they do THOSE things, they can still give bonuses in the form of +1s and +2s.
The only exception is Creation Cards which are Delve Rewards (to date) and not subject to the "more play = more cards" debate (IMHO), and can't really be loaned out anyhow.
In other words - if I'm "special" because I play enough to get a load of cards, it benefits not only me, but anyone I sit at a table with. Because of this, I don't see where it's "unfair" that "I" have special things others don't get.
Share the wealth!
So, what am I getting for joining the RPGA? Access to the LG regional & core material, LFR modules, and some irritation waiting for my "rewards" for having played for over a year...
Maybe that reward PDF is to soothe the irritations of those of us who have never seen a card mailing, despite being members for multiple attempts?
And what did it cost you to join the RPGA?
Nothing. (Some of us remember when you had to pay to be a member, you know..)
So I don't see much room for complaint.
And for what ever its worth, at present I have 158 Current Player Reward Points (218 Total Player Reward Points) and 98 GM Reward Points (Total and Current). And I have not received a single card in the last two years (although I did get two owlbears and a cyclops). But you get what you pay for and it costs me nothing to play/DM in the RPGA.
Would I like to have some cards of my own instead of having to borrow from those around me? Absolutely. Would I prefer to have nice shiny 'real' cards rather than printed off copies from a pdf. Sure.
But I'm not going to get too upset no matter what happens because I'm here to play a game not to get phat loot.
And it's not costing me anything to do either.
Carl
Don't assume copy paper. There are those out there who will take the PDF versions to a print/copy shop and have them printed professionally on glossy cardstock. Wouldn't be overly expensive. Certainly less than buying the real ones on eBay, anyway. WotC could make the file ones different (black&white, a big "THIS WAS PRINTED" watermark across them, etc), but even then you're still taking away some of the exclusivity.
Personally, I hope that the zip file is something completely different. Something that's never been printed in cardstock form and never will be. (Not by WotC, anyway.) If the PDF file is some good basic cards that anyone can use while the mailings are something completely different, that would allow newer players to take advantage of the cards while still allowing more experienced/dedicated players use of the cards only available through the mail.
(I don't think I've ever been this curious about a file that's sitting on my desktop...)
I'm curious as well...
On the RPGA downloads page, it says all rewards cards mailed out in 2008. I suspect this means Set 1 only, unless things randomly start showing up before the end of the year. Certainly, I believe this means that the convention exclusives will remain just that - exclusive.
Does it hurt the value of the existing cards? A little, but I think it will only apply to that set. Hopefully future sets will remain exempt from this new free-print policy.
I think that organizers SHOULD be rewarded. But I think that reward should not be in direct gameplay. When new players come to the table, they should be treated the same as players that have been there for years. When players gear down their play frequency, they should be treated the same as new and veteran players when they sit down at the table.
When a new player sits down and sees other players have access to game benefits they do not, it creates a sense of cliqu-ishness. It can be very non-inclusive and a turn-off. I like that player rewards are open to all. And being able to print them eliminates the problem with the bad issuing / reporting that happens now.
Think of it in a pavlovian sense. We want positive reinforcement. If that reinforcement is applied haphazardly and almost randomly, it is useless. That's what we have now where people don't get their rewards, or get them six month later.
I'd like to see those that contribute (DM, organizers) get rewarded based on the level of contribution they make. DM's and organizers are ENABLERS. THe campaign CANNOT run without them - everywhere I've been the bottleneck is always judges and organization... NOT having enough players. The more games you ENABLE, the more play happens, the more WOTC grows it's business.
But the rewards system should reward those individuals outside of the play experience - perhaps with free merchandies (mini's, books, etc.). This way they have neat stuff, but not an advantage in play over a brand new player.
anyway, my 2c.
Think of it in a pavlovian sense. We want positive reinforcement. If that reinforcement is applied haphazardly and almost randomly, it is useless. That's what we have now where people don't get their rewards, or get them six month later.
Actually, in operant conditioning, a variable ratio schedule of reinforcement sees the most rapid learning of the desired behavior...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement#Schedules_of_reinforcement
At some point, you have to ask what the purpose of the rewards system is.
It's a fully integrated, long-term, large-scale promotion in the form of a loyalty business model.
And WotC gets play data in return, which is useful information for all kinds of marketing and design reasons.
When a new player sits down and sees other players have access to game benefits they do not, it creates a sense of cliqu-ishness. It can be very non-inclusive and a turn-off. I like that player rewards are open to all. And being able to print them eliminates the problem with the bad issuing / reporting that happens now.
On the other hand, something that needs to be kept in mind is that those veteran players/DMs will have a lot of time invested in this, but at the same time have the easiest replacement options if they are not enjoying the experience. I am sure that I am not the only one who has seen people walk away from a Living campaign and simply run their own home game instead, sometimes at the same table at the FLGS where they used to run open games. The old hands have lots of options if they want to play. They also tend to be the core that new players get introduced to the game through.
It's a rare thing for a D&D group, including DM, to spring into existence out of nothing but new players. Almost always, there are a few experienced people leading the way. While new player acquisition and accessibility is extremely important to the game, if current players are not getting involved and staying involved there will be nothing for new player to join. And I can think of few things that would annoy many long term players more than having the new people sit down and have automatic access to everything they have worked to earn.
So, what the campaign needs is accessible cliquishness. When a new player sits down, they should see the old hands using bonuses and rewards that they don't or can't. And that needs to be accompanied by the message that if they like what they see and stick around for a few months they too could start seeing these same rewards and more. And then, that needs to be actually followed through on.
At some point, you have to ask what the purpose of the rewards system is. Is it to reward people who play (and if so what is the ratio of reward to play?), who DM, who organize, etc.?
I think that organizers SHOULD be rewarded. But I think that reward should not be in direct gameplay. When new players come to the table, they should be treated the same as players that have been there for years. When players gear down their play frequency, they should be treated the same as new and veteran players when they sit down at the table.
When a new player sits down and sees other players have access to game benefits they do not, it creates a sense of cliqu-ishness. It can be very non-inclusive and a turn-off. I like that player rewards are open to all. And being able to print them eliminates the problem with the bad issuing / reporting that happens now.
Think of it in a pavlovian sense. We want positive reinforcement. If that reinforcement is applied haphazardly and almost randomly, it is useless. That's what we have now where people don't get their rewards, or get them six month later.
I'd like to see those that contribute (DM, organizers) get rewarded based on the level of contribution they make. DM's and organizers are ENABLERS. THe campaign CANNOT run without them - everywhere I've been the bottleneck is always judges and organization... NOT having enough players. The more games you ENABLE, the more play happens, the more WOTC grows it's business.
But the rewards system should reward those individuals outside of the play experience - perhaps with free merchandies (mini's, books, etc.). This way they have neat stuff, but not an advantage in play over a brand new player.
anyway, my 2c.
Perhaps.
But in my experience (limited though it might be) those with the cards universally share with those without. Including, in most cases, the DM.
(And whether this is done altruistically or simply because having cards in other players hands benefits the players themselves directly isn't really relevant here).
So what the new players see is that the 'old hands' have lots of cool stuff they can get themselves if they play AND (unless you have some petty players) that they share the goodies for the good of all.
In other words, a win-win. No one is 'disadvantaged' and benefits are seen for long-term association.
Carl
In other words, a win-win. No one is 'disadvantaged' and benefits are seen for long-term association.
IF you have a bunch of longer-term RPGA members there, who have their cards with them, that have enough cards to share with the table, etc.
Not always the case, and having only enough cards at the table for a couple of people, out of 6 players, does npt always feel encouraging.
Not to mention some of us are well past due for getting some of these cards, and feel irritated that ours never came, multiple times, when we see them in use. YMMV.
Remember that, at a good-sized game day (as an example), you could have enough "newbies" to the RPGA that you could have an entire table without any cards at all. That includes the GM, by the way.
Sincerely,
Karl
I am glad that everyone is getting the cards. Redistribution of wealth and equality for everyone...
Sincerely,
Karl
Hey Karl ... your last name isn't Marx is it? :P
Remember that, at a good-sized game day (as an example), you could have enough "newbies" to the RPGA that you could have an entire table without any cards at all. That includes the GM, by the way.
And this is a problem because? I don't think reward cards should be viewed as an entitlement. Having cards is a nice bonus, not the default state off the game. If there is only one or two floating around at your table, be glad for the small boost that may give you in a fight. After all, the secondary bonus on the cards MUST be used to help a teammate. If there are no cards at the table, so what? 4E was not developed with the reward cards in mind and the adventures are not being written with the assumption the players have a bunch of cards, so you will not be behind the power curve at all.
Hey Karl ... your last name isn't Marx is it? :P
ding ding ding
this is just a silly discussion..
whats the point of cards if everyone has them?
specifically creation cards?
Just make that race or class part of the CCG if everyone can get it.
ding ding ding
this is just a silly discussion..
whats the point of cards if everyone has them?
specifically creation cards?
Just make that race or class part of the CCG if everyone can get it.
Ummm. You do know that the only people who are going to get any sort of password to that file are the ones actually slated to receive some sort of other reward?
The main issue here is between the "haves", who were lucky enough to be in the initial mailing of cards for LFR, and the "have nots", who missed for one reason or another, that mailing, and have never gotten any of the additional rewards that should have been mailed out in the ensuing year?
Ummm. You do know that the only people who are going to get any sort of password to that file are the ones actually slated to receive some sort of other reward?
*Snicker*
Yeah, because that's going to last ten seconds once the password has been released. Let's be honest here, once that password hits the wild those cards are going to be freely available to one and all in the blink of an eye. If you think that's a good thing, fair enough, but to pretend that they will be somehow restricted to the intended recipients is either misleading or incredibly naive.
The problem with the cards is not that some people were lucky enough to get one mailing almost a year ago and others were not. The problem is the RPGA's inability to run the Rewards program as advertised. The solution isn't to punish those who were lucky enough to get in on the first set (of which, I am not one FWIW) by essentially voiding their reward. The solution is for the RPGA to get the program back on track, possibly with some sort of bonus in apology. If, for whatever reason, they are incapable of doing that the program should be reexamined. But effectively neutralizing the rewards out there right now isn't going to do anything to make this whole situation better.
Besides, it's not like the last two planned mailings were going to be reissues of the cards from set #1. Even if the last two mailings had happened as planned we would not have access to any of the set #1 cards anymore than people who join in 2009 would have been mailed the set #2 or #3 cards that we all should have received already.
I joined the RPGA during the summer and as such have not received any cards myself. I DM on a regular basis, so by rights I should have eight sets of cards with my name on it by now. No one is more aggravated by the failure to delivered than me. That said, I have friends and regular players who have a couple cards kicking around, and I would not like to see them disappointed. Also, I don't think decisions that throw long term players under the bus in order to try and appease newer players like me are a sign of a healthy campaign. So, the rewards program needs to be fixed but not like this.
The only changes I'm interested in are also putting creation card promos in later mailings and/or this.
How about every player with more than 120 points for the year gets a sub to D&DI for the next year....
Carl
Still, getting actual tangible stuff is nice too - and could be a gateway into more WOTC products "Hey, this mini is nice, I'll try to buy a pack or two to get one that I can use for my character"
I know....
How about every player with more than 120 points for the year gets a sub to D&DI for the next year....
Carl
That would likely cut their profit down to near zero as the overlap of people who run and play a lot and the people who run and play enough that DDI is useful to them is probably very large.
That would likely cut their profit down to near zero as the overlap of people who run and play a lot and the people who run and play enough that DDI is useful to them is probably very large.
It would also encourage players to report fictitious events solely to get the DDI service for free.
There was an issue in LG/3.5 where a large number of fictitious play activity happened in Brazil... because the locals realized they could sell the player rewards cards on ebay for a profit.
Think about it, all you have to do is get 10-20 fictitious DCI accounts (easy/free) and request/report games for those numbers on a regular basis. Then all those rewards cards go to the same person, who sells them on ebay.
This is another good reason to make the cards readily accessible to all (for free and downloadable), it kills the secondary market on an item WOTC makes no money selling (unlike the secondary market for magic cards, which WOTC at least sells initially), and in fact SPENDS money to create and distribute.
Now, a DISCOUNT to your DDI service (say, shave a dollar off the top every month if your play volume is above a certain threshold) would be interesting - but free service is definitely not a good idea (from a business model perspective).
I personally wouldn't mind seeing the rewards cards just go away - they're a nice idea, but it's so poorly implemented and the disparity between players really isn't worth it. The reward system should focus more on rewarding organizers and judges - the people that ENABLE the hobby for everyone else - in some fashion that is useful to them. Again, discounts on game product is probably the best thing (instead of free items).
WOTC should use DDI to setup their own online store (maybe partner with amazon) - then use the player/judge reward system for people to get discounts. You could then buy gifts for all your friends with your discounts! It would probably increase sales (though it might not increase total profit much).
WOTC should use DDI to setup their own online store (maybe partner with amazon) - then use the player/judge reward system for people to get discounts.
And instead of taking money from WOTC, that system takes money directly from the local game stores. A better system would be some sort of voucher or gift card/coupon system that could be redeemed at any store that is part of normal distribution channels.
They usually ship before reward cards.
Hopefully these mailings arrive before Christmas!
Also included in the instructions on where to download the RPGA Rewards Cards 2008.pdf and the password to open it too.
The downside for players though is the plan to move the reward cards out of the rewards program and into a convention support system which will place a greater emphasis on being a dm for rpga games.
:evillaugh
And if anyone official comments on this, some other questions. Is the 100 points based just on player points, or player points+DM points? Are there DM rewards also on the way? What was the cutoff date for the 100 point determination? However the program is changing, what is the cutoff date for the next mailing?
Daring Exploit (+1) - Benefit: When you miss on an attack roll with an at-will exploit, use this
card to re-roll the attack roll. You must keep the second result. Turn the card sideways to indicate it is used.
When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the game
session. You may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the roll has
been made. Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face down or
remove it from the play area when the bonus has been assigned.
Desperate Spell (+1) - Benefit: When you miss on an attack roll with an at-will spell, use this
card to re-roll the attack roll. You must keep the second result. Turn the card sideways to indicate it is used.
When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the game
session. You may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the roll has
been made. Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face down or
remove it from the play area when the bonus has been assigned.
Fervent Prayer (+1)- Benefit: When you miss on an attack roll with an at-will prayer, use this
card to re-roll the attack roll. You must keep the second result. Turn the card sideways to indicate it is used.
When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the game
session. You may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the roll has
been made. Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face down or
remove it from the play area when the bonus has been assigned.
Turning the Tide (+2) - Benefit: When you roll a natural 20 on an attack roll, use this card
to gain one immediate save against one effect that allows saves that affects you (your choice). Turn this card sideways to indicate that it is used.
When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the game session. You may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the roll has been made. Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face down or remove it from the play area when the bonus has been assigned.
Snap Out of It (+1) - Benefit: When you would become dazed, use this card to end that
condition. Turn this card sideways to indicate that it is used.
When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the game
session. you may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the roll
has been made. Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face down
or remove it from the play area when the bonus has been assigned.
That'll Do (+1) - Benefit: When you fail a skill check, use this card to treat the number rolled on the dieas a natural 10; apply modifiers as normal. Turn this card sideways to indicate that it is used. When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the game session.
You may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the roll has been made.
Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face down or remove it from the
play area when the bonus has been assigned.
Minion Slayer (+2) - Benefit: After you kill at least 3 minions in one encounter, use this card to
spend a healing surge to gain hit points equal to your healing surge value +1d6. This use
does not use your second wind for the encounter. Turn this card sideways to indicate that
it is used.
When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the game
session. You may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the roll has
been made. Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face down or
remove it from the play area when the bonus has been assigned.
Zhentarim Infiltration (Quest) - The Zhentarim is an organization of mercenaries consisting of corrupt priests, murderous soldiers, power-hungry wizards, and other folk of nefarious character. Also known as the Black Network, the Zhentarim is lead by Manshoon who controls the network from an old castle known as Stormwatch.
By taking this quest, you’re attempting to infiltrate the ranks of this organization to determine its current aims. Complete each task below to embark on your infiltration mission. Your DM will tell you if you complete a task. Tasks for this quest are seeded throughout heroic-tier Living Forgotten Realms adventures available in 2008 and 2009.
Task 1: Find a wily merchant who traffics in ornate pottery. When you haggle over a pot, tell the merchant "A storm is coming; you should really close up for the day."
Task 2: Give a scratched silver coin to a stranger wearing a yellow cloak with a black clasp, and ask for their name.
Task 3: Defeat a Zhentarim agent in combat. Spare the agent's life. Tell the agent that you delivered the coin and to whom it was delivered. You cannot complete this task before Task 1 and 2.
Benefit: Your infiltration mission begins. You are able to play the special adventure Black Cloaks and Bitter Rivalries, available in 2009.
Undead Slayer (+2) - Benefit: After you kill at least two enemies with the undead keyword during an encounter, use this card to spend a healing surge and regain hit points equal to your
healing surge value +1d8. This use does not use your second wind for the encounter. Turn
this card sideways to indicate that it is used.
When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the game
session. You may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the roll has
been made. Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face down or
remove it from the play area when the bonus has been assigned.
Arcane Tide (+1) - Benefit: Pick one target that you have just knocked prone or immobilized with your spell. Use this card to push that target a number of squares equal to your Constitution
modifier instead. Turn the card sideways to indicate it is used.
When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the game
session. You may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the roll has
been made. Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face down or
remove it from the play area when the bonus has been assigned.
Elemental Fury (+1) - Benefit: After you’ve hit with a prayer that does radiant damage, use this
card to change the damage type to cold, fire, or lightning. Turn the card sideways to indicate it is used.
When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the game
session. You may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the roll has
been made. Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face down or
remove it from the play area when the bonus has been assigned.
I'm Not Done Yet (+1) - Benefit: Use this card after you’ve hit one target with an exploit that knocks the target prone. Instead of knocking the target prone, use this card to deal an
additional 1[W] damage. Turn the card sideways to indicate it is used.
When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the game
session. You may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the roll has
been made. Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face down or
remove it from the play area when the bonus has been assigned.
Quick Getaway (+2) - Benefit: Use this card when you take the run action. You may shift 2
additional squares at any point during your move. Turn this card sideways to indicate that it is used.
When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the game
session. You may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the roll has
been made. Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face down or
remove it from the play area when the bonus has been assigned.
One shot, One Kill (+2) - Benefit: Use this card when you’ve killed a non-minion enemy that’s not
bloodied. Gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls for the rest of the encounter. Turn this card sideways to indicate that it is used.
When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the game
session. You may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the roll has
been made. Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face down or
remove it from the play area when the bonus has been assigned.
Instinctive Reaction (+1) - Benefit: Use this card when you’re hit by an attack that does ongoing damage. As an immediate reaction, make a saving throw against the ongoing damage. Turn this card sideways to indicate that it is used.
When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the game
session. You may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the roll has
been made. Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face down or
remove it from the play area when the bonus has been assigned.
Secrets of Alchemy (Expansion) - Benefit: You gain access to the following alchemical formulas and items from Adventurer’s Vault. You may purchase these items and formulas as long as your level is equal to or less than the alchemical item or formula. You must possess the Alchemist feat (see Adventurer’s Vault) to create alchemical items.
• Alchemist’s fire • Antivenom
• Tanglefoot bag • Thunderstone
• Smokestick
Second Chance (+2) - Benefit: After you roll a natural 1 on a skill check in a skill challenge, use this card to reroll the die. Turn this card sideways to indicate that it is used.
When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the game
session. You may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the roll has been made. Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face down
or remove it from the play area when the bonus has been assigned.
Spellscarred: Larger than Life (Expansion) - Exposed to the Spellplague, you can manifest your strange power by giving yourself extra reach with your melee weapon. When you use this ability, your spellscar manifests its blue radiance and a blue glow encompasses your hands. With more training, you may also learn the secrets of other, greater ways to harness your “gift”.
Benefit: This card allows you to play a spellscarred character or add a spellscar to an existing character, which has certain benefits and drawbacks. If you take the feat Student of the Plague, your trait is larger than life. You may use any of the other spellscarred options present in the Forgotten Realms Player’s Guide.
Forgotten Lore (+2) - Benefit: After you cast a ritual that requires a skill check and receive the
lowest check result, use this card to achieve the next lowest result. Turn this card sideways
to indicate that it is used.
When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the
game session. You may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the
roll has been made. Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face
down or remove it from the play area when the bonus has been assigned.
I believe the points are split between player and DM. The main advantage of getting the cards in the mail now are that they are printed on the heavy duty card stock, but the very last page of the PDF is the back of the card so if you have a good printer that can take the heavy cardstock, you can print them out yourselves.
The downside for players though is the plan to move the reward cards out of the rewards program and into a convention support system which will place a greater emphasis on being a dm for rpga games.
:evillaugh
IMO that's a good thing, it turns the reward system back to what a reward system should do: Reward the people who truly enable the events
The cards in the PDF are:
[...]
Arcane Tide
[...]
What does this card do?
Several of the cards are "expansion" cards, including Secrets of Alchemy which gives to access to some alchemy materials, so it's no longer relevant unless your home campaign or a future living campaign doesn't allow alchemy for everyone.
I currently have 97 points and it would really suck to "lose" 10 cards just because of 3 points
I hope there is also an inbetween between "<100=3cards" and ">100=13cards".
I currently have 97 points and it would really suck to "lose" 10 cards just because of 3 points
Unfortunately that may be the case. And I dont know if it was stated above but the RANDOMNESS of the cards is now gone. You get each card in the set. I have as of yet to check out the .pdf yet.
So are they going to post a policy or a change to the rewards program so that people know what to expect from now on out?
So are they going to post a policy or a change to the rewards program so that people know what to expect from now on out?
They don't seem to want to talk about it at all, and the D&D Rewards homepage hasn't been updated for some 3 years now, giving new players who don't have a helpful veteran over their shoulders absolutely no idea what's going on.
I'm becoming very disappointed in the way they're handling RPGA since the merger with DCI. See also the thread pointing out that Dragon articles (including the Scales of War Adventure Path) haven't been added as sanction-able events since before the merger
Cazieel, thanks for taking the time to post that here. A couple quick questions if you don't mind. Are the cards the same ones from the first LFR card set or are they new ones? What cards are included in the PFD? Has there been a change in the point totals in your DCI account?
And if anyone official comments on this, some other questions. Is the 100 points based just on player points, or player points+DM points? Are there DM rewards also on the way? What was the cutoff date for the 100 point determination? However the program is changing, what is the cutoff date for the next mailing?
Only WotC folks know anything about this. Heck, I didn't even get my cards in the last mailing that went out.
Shawn
I hope there is also an inbetween between "<100=3cards" and ">100=13cards".
I currently have 97 points and it would really suck to "lose" 10 cards just because of 3 points
Don't worry about it. The cards are now free for all and everyone gets everything. Just print off any cards you are interested in.
EDIT: Anyone else gotten an early Christmas present in the mail? Specifically, anyone in Canada? I'm curious if I should be expecting something in the near future.
I hope there is also an inbetween between "<100=3cards" and ">100=13cards".
I currently have 97 points and it would really suck to "lose" 10 cards just because of 3 points
It appears, according to the letter that arrived with the cards, that the physical cards of set 2 (the old mailing, set of 10 which are 8 D&D + 2 SagaEd) will be for those with a lot of points. Everyone else gets the access to the pdf to print off what they want.
I got the physical cards, and yes, there were 2 Star Wars cards in it.
Guess I'll have to wait and see what happens next to see if it is actually worth reporting events anymore, right now the answer looks like a big fat NO.
-c
Great Shot Kid!
Star Wars Sage Edition Rewards Set 2, card 1 of 2
Benefit: Use this card after you've hit with an attack. You gain an extra die of damage of the type used in the attack. Flip the card face down or remove it from the play area after it is used.
You Weak-Minded Fool!
Star Wars Sage Edition Rewards Set 2, card 2 of 2
Benefit: Use this card and spend a Force Point to get a +5 bonus to your Will defense against one attack. You may use this card after the attack has been rolled but before the GM announces the result. Flip the card face down or remove it from the play area after it is used.
Hope that helps
By the way, quick related question. The current RPGA rewards period ends at the end of the month, what about the DCI rewards program? I had heard that Magic cards are only mailed out three times a year.
THANKS FOR THE STAR WARS TEXT! :D
D&D Rewards current session ends: December 31st
Magic Rewards current session ends: ???
Yeah, but I asked:
D&D Rewards current session ends: December 31st
Magic Rewards current session ends: ???
And it's pretty questionable if the next RPGA session ends December 31st. After all, the last reporting period (based on what people who have received it so far have posted) ended at the end of November, and I doubt that they are going to do a one month reporting session.
It's too bad they did not use today's RPGA news update post to address any of this.
Where is the RPGA news ?
It's too bad, because in the old system, you could look and tally up how much you had for each session and now it is quite difficult to do so.
It'll be interesting to see what becomes of the Rewards program for next year.
-c
So at this point the entire system is so FUBARed that it can't add 4+4?
Very much this. Personally, I think it is counterproductive, but I can emphasize with the posters I have seen who are talking about not bothering to report their games any more. After all, the character tracking is meaningless, the rewards are nonexistent and the system is a real pain to use.
As a side note, I may be a little annoyed. Despite having 108 player points and 64 DM points as of the end of November, I received only 3 cards in the mail.
Very much this. Personally, I think it is counterproductive, but I can emphasize with the posters I have seen who are talking about not bothering to report their games any more. After all, the character tracking is meaningless, the rewards are nonexistent and the system is a real pain to use.
As a side note, I may be a little annoyed. Despite having 108 player points and 64 DM points as of the end of November, I received only 3 cards in the mail.
I hope the RPGA people are reading this and it won't be counterproductive.
You were expecting a Plastic Game Template, 3 special D&D miniatures, and 24 D&D Campaign Cards. But you open the package, and it's an enrollment in the "Jelly of the Month" club.
My point there is, I am not mad they changed it, I'm furious that to them we're not worth the forethought to them of telling us about the change. Why couldn't they wait till the Summer mailing to make changes?
Vbut I can emphasize with the posters I have seen who are talking about not bothering to report their games any more. After all, the character tracking is meaningless, the rewards are nonexistent and the system is a real pain to use.
That's not helpful either. It lets them know how much LFR is being played. If no one reported, they'd scrap the campaign.
They just did tell us about the change. Didn't you read the letter?
They had four months, that letter was too little for too late for three reasons:
1. Some people got their "reward" before they got their letter.
2. Because of the holidays and it's a last minte and unexpected change, a lot of people who don't fall under 1, didn't have a chance to read the letter.
3. It was still a lie, people with over 100 points still got only 3 cards.
They had four months, that letter was too little for too late for three reasons:
All of which is ultimately pointless anyway since it's all free and they don't have to be giving squat to us for free to begin with. So just keep that in mind.
1. Some people got their "reward" before they got their letter.
Considering the letter came with the cards/password, I fail to see how this happened.
2. Because of the holidays and it's a last minte and unexpected change, a lot of people who don't fall under 1, didn't have a chance to read the letter.
Is any change ever expected? We know about the change when they tell us. Unless you're a precog that is. If you got the letter and tossed it aside, who's fault is that?
3. It was still a lie, people with over 100 points still got only 3 cards.
They still had limited quantities. Which is something they explained. So they went down the list and sent cards until they ran out.
Who really cares if you got the physical cards or had to print them out? It's free. People need to stop whining like they're entitled to stuff. It never ceases to amaze me how people ***** and moan over freee stuff. I used to see this at the Cons with people crying over swag. Just like the GM swag, the rewards are a nice little thank you, but if the resources aren't there, people need to stop acting like they're owed something.
I mean, we're going to be getting 60+ modules for free every year. It's the old adage: Give them an inch, they'll take a yard.
This isn't just directed at you AJR, however, forgive me if I don't sympathize with you over free stuff that they didn't have to give us int he first place. The amount of QQ I am seeing over this absolutely astounds me. I don't see people complain about stuff they pay for as much as I see people complain about stuff they get for free.
They had four months, that letter was too little for too late for three reasons:
1. Some people got their "reward" before they got their letter.
2. Because of the holidays and it's a last minte and unexpected change, a lot of people who don't fall under 1, didn't have a chance to read the letter.
3. It was still a lie, people with over 100 points still got only 3 cards.
Well not to play Asmodeus's advocate here but in the last Living campaign you got 1 rewards point per module or 2 if it was a core module. So you have been getting 4 times the amount of points than the previous living campaign.
So if you play 25 LFR modules you get 100 pts.....if you played 25 LG modules you would have had 25 pts to 50 pts. So you would have been at 1 set of 3 maybe 2 sets for the same play.
And I was wondering how people got their rewards without getting the letter ? Since mine was in the same envelope. Did they mail some out without the letter?
Considering the letter came with the cards/password, I fail to see how this happened.
They still had limited quantities. Which is something they explained. So they went down the list and sent cards until they ran out.
First, I don't give a rat's rump about getting reward cards. I have over 200 points this period, and I don't care if I don't get anything. (And I have not recieved a letter to date).
Here is my only complaint. If they did not send out reward letters once they ran out of cards, how are the folks who did not get any supposed to know about the changes? Unless you follow these boards rabidly (like me) you don't know a thing about what has happened to your supposed rewards. You do not have a password for the pdf file to print cards, and you probably don't know that the pdf file even exists.
Unlike those of us here, there are people (the vast majority of the membership, I believe) that don't know what is going on because they simply don't follow these things online. Of my local group of DMs who are going to DDXP, 2 of the five don't have regular internet access to keep up with things. I have done my best to spread the word, and everyone has the pdf file, but no one has gotten a letter with a password to open the file yet.
I'm one of the biggest RPGA fanboys around. I will continue to play and support this and any other campaigns the RPGA comes out with. Always. Because I have enjoyed running the games and meeting all sorts of great people. I will actively continue to recruit new players and get more DMs to go to big conventions and judge great games. A few missed reward cards are not going to make a difference to the fun I have with this game.
P.S. Don't start sending me passwords, please. :D
All of which is ultimately pointless anyway since it's all free and they don't have to be giving squat to us for free to begin with. So just keep that in mind.
It's about when they told us.
Considering the letter came with the cards/password, I fail to see how this happened.
I was reffering to the vague online letter.
Is any change ever expected? We know about the change when they tell us. Unless you're a precog that is. If you got the letter and tossed it aside, who's fault is that?
You're missunderstanding me. I'm saying that it would have been more considerate to have given us more of a notice. They should have waited till the next mailing to make any changes.
They still had limited quantities. Which is something they explained. So they went down the list and sent cards until they ran out.
So the RPGA printer has a better union than the DCI Printer?
This isn't just directed at you AJR, however, forgive me if I don't sympathize with you over free stuff that they didn't have to give us int he first place. The amount of QQ I am seeing over this absolutely astounds me. I don't see people complain about stuff they pay for as much as I see people complain about stuff they get for free.
Again, I can understand if they feel they need to change. It's just polite to give a notice before such a big change.
Well not to play Asmodeus's advocate here but in the last Living campaign you got 1 rewards point per module or 2 if it was a core module. So you have been getting 4 times the amount of points than the previous living campaign.
So change the ammount of points you need.
And I was wondering how people got their rewards without getting the letter ? Since mine was in the same envelope. Did they mail some out without the letter?
That's another of my points, it seemed rushed.
First, I don't give a rat's rump about getting reward cards. I have over 200 points this period, and I don't care if I don't get anything. (And I have not recieved a letter to date).
Here is my only complaint. If they did not send out reward letters once they ran out of cards, how are the folks who did not get any supposed to know about the changes? Unless you follow these boards rabidly (like me) you don't know a thing about what has happened to your supposed rewards. You do not have a password for the pdf file to print cards, and you probably don't know that the pdf file even exists.
Same here, I got no letter. What about my DM points? Will I get nothing for them either?
They had four months, that letter was too little for too late for three reasons:
1. Some people got their "reward" before they got their letter.
2. Because of the holidays and it's a last minte and unexpected change, a lot of people who don't fall under 1, didn't have a chance to read the letter.
3. It was still a lie, people with over 100 points still got only 3 cards.
1. Seriously unlikely. Some people may have received their reward from a previous time period recently. The GM minis, for example, for the last session, went out a coupleof months back.
2. It's the holidays, if you can't read a fairly short, one-sided letter, you probably wouldn't have read it any other time as well.
3. Are you counting your points NOW, or as of 11/30/08? Remember that any points accrued after the end of November don't count for the mailing.
I had over 100 points, composite, as of 11/30/08, and received both card packs.
I was out of town for over a week with family that didn't have acess.
What about the durration ending in three days? What will be the Player and DM rewards?
If they did not send out reward letters once they ran out of cards, how are the folks who did not get any supposed to know about the changes? Unless you follow these boards rabidly (like me) you don't know a thing about what has happened to your supposed rewards. You do not have a password for the pdf file to print cards, and you probably don't know that the pdf file even exists.
Not every persons mailing goes out at the same time. I'm actually surprised I got mine this early. Everyone else is usually talking about the mailing and i get mine about 1-1/2 months later. And I always got a letter even when I didn't have enough points for cards.
You're missunderstanding me. I'm saying that it would have been more considerate to have given us more of a notice. They should have waited till the next mailing to make any changes.
Again, I can understand if they feel they need to change. It's just polite to give a notice before such a big change.
Since i think I read somewhere that you haven't received a letter yet, here is the relevant section of it:
In addition the RPGA Rewards program is undergoing a complete overhaul for 2009. We will be sending everyone enrolled in the Rewards program a special mailing in spring 2009 as part of the new program's launch. The new program will place greater emphasis on being a DM for RPGA games, and the card rewards will be moving out of the rewards program into a convention support program. The next activity mailing (aimed at DMs) will occur in summer 2009. Visit our website at (you know the address) in January 2009 for more information on the program's changes!
So we do have advance notice, and it isn't changing immediately. As for your DM rewards, I have no clue. I never paid much attention to them when I got them. I usually tossed the minis as I had no use for them, or at least for 5 copies of the same one.
This isn't just directed at you AJR, however, forgive me if I don't sympathize with you over free stuff that they didn't have to give us int he first place. The amount of QQ I am seeing over this absolutely astounds me. I don't see people complain about stuff they pay for as much as I see people complain about stuff they get for free.
We spend a lot of money on the books and other accesories. When we convince new people to play, we are also getting them new customers and I've learned in my business classes this type of direct marketing is amazing profitable for the company. When ever we play we also help them with branding, the key behind the success of Apple, Volkswagen, Linux, Star Trek, Harley Davidson, Oprah, Vans Shoes, WWE, Jimmy Buffett, etc. And when we're doing all of this, we are using our time, and you know what they say about time.
Anyway, I finally got a reply from Customer Support after many replies saying they couldn't say anything at this point.
The 'Durations' have not been used since the Spring mailing this year. Files were last pulled to determine who would get rewards in the latest mailing, which shipped 2 weeks ago, in late November and I don't anticipate another mailing for at least 3-4 months. I'm sorry but I'm just not able to tell you when the next reporting deadline may be.
I want to stress that at this point I'm not complaining about what the rewards are because I still haven't recieved anything to complain about, I just want to know what's going on. I hate surprises, so them telling me they can't tell me anything makes me uneasy. Is it too much to ask to be able to go to: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga/rewards/welcome and read the truth?
We spend a lot of money on the books and other accesories. When we convince new people to play, we are also getting them new customers and I've learned in my business classes this type of direct marketing is amazing profitable for the company. When ever we play we also help them with branding, the key behind the success of Apple, Volkswagen, Linux, Star Trek, Harley Davidson, Oprah, Vans Shoes, WWE, Jimmy Buffett, etc. And when we're doing all of this, we are using our time, and you know what they say about time.
Anyway, I finally got a reply from Customer Support after many replies saying they couldn't say anything at this point.
I want to stress that at this point I'm not complaining about what the rewards are because I still haven't recieved anything to complain about, I just want to know what's going on. I hate surprises, so them telling me they can't tell me anything makes me uneasy. Is it too much to ask to be able to go to: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga/rewards/welcome and read the truth?
I suspect they may have nothing to report for a variety of reasons:
1) The welcome and rewards pages are woefully out of date.
2) Chris Tulach, RPGA Manager, is likely still putting the finishing touches on "the new plan"
3) The new plan will likely be kept quiet until the DDXP RPGA Member's Meeting (3 weeks away).
While I understand (BELIEVE me, I understand) how frustrating it when it feels like we're not getting the information - I have the utmost faith that we will get the details soon - when the information is ready for us.
If, for some odd reason, there isn't any new info at DDXP, I'll do what little I can to lean on Chris (I have other contacts at WotC who will stalk him for me) and get what info I can ASAP after the show.
I suspect they may have nothing to report for a variety of reasons:
1) The welcome and rewards pages are woefully out of date.
2) Chris Tulach, RPGA Manager, is likely still putting the finishing touches on "the new plan"
3) The new plan will likely be kept quiet until the DDXP RPGA Member's Meeting (3 weeks away).
While I understand (BELIEVE me, I understand) how frustrating it when it feels like we're not getting the information - I have the utmost faith that we will get the details soon - when the information is ready for us.
If, for some odd reason, there isn't any new info at DDXP, I'll do what little I can to lean on Chris (I have other contacts at WotC who will stalk him for me) and get what info I can ASAP after the show.
I'm glad you can understand my paranoia. A lot of us gamers have a tendency to be paranoid thanks to our DMs. Anyone that's found a Wish Ring laying out in the open understands this. I really wish the welcome and rewards pages were updated, it's misleading to new members.
I'm glad you can understand my paranoia. A lot of us gamers have a tendency to be paranoid thanks to our DMs. Anyone that's found a Wish Ring laying out in the open understands this. I really wish the welcome and rewards pages were updated, it's misleading to new members.
If I can get 5 minutes with him at DDXP, I hope to find a way to tactfully brooch the subject with Chris, if only to get a feel for the priority level of updating the RPGA portion of the website.
As the community VCL, I understand all to well the feeling of wanting/needing more communication from the inside. However, as I've told others - by all indications according to the couple "spies" I have inside WotC Chris Tulach is an impossibly busy man.
While it's my strong desire to try and foster more communication from him, I also understand that it's something that, regrettably, has to fall by the wayside in favor of simply meeting the assorted deadlines over his head.
Hpefully, now that 4E and with it, LFR are rolling along strongly, Chris will get a little more breathing room in 2009, and will be able to stop by and make the occasional post in here as he's done in the past.
Then again, DDXP is around the corner - and GenCon sneaks up awfully quickly after that. . .
I can understand that making the RPGA changes while releasing a new version of D&D over taxed him. It seems to not have been the right time for him to take on the additional work.
Oh, I don't know that changing the rewards program (hopefully for the better!) is "more work" - as Chris is the guy in charge (so far as I can tell) of ALL things RPGA. So it's part of his job anyhow. He's done a really good job changing the RPGA for the better (in my opinion - DCI database merger aside - other opinions may vary) in his years at WotC, this is just one more step in that evolution.
I do wish we'd get a little more advance notice of these kinds of changes - even if its just a "changes are coming" announcement, but that's what I'm working to try and promote.
For now we'll just wait and see what comes.
I do wish we'd get a little more advance notice of these kinds of changes - even if its just a "changes are coming" announcement, but that's what I'm working to try and promote.
For now we'll just wait and see what comes.
Thank you, that would be nice.
Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.
As for myself, I've never recieved a lot of rewards, and didn't even bother customer serivce about them. I want them, I thought about complaining about never recieving them, but I never filled a ticket to get my missing rewards. I went at least four years with my RPGA card and never recieved any of the mailings I qualified for. It wasn't till I got a DCI card that I got any RPGA mailing.
I went at least four years with my RPGA card and never recieved any of the mailings I qualified for.
Did you sign up for them back then? They weren't automatic. You had to specifically sign up for them. I think with the new DCI database everyone is enrolled when you fill out your info in the system after signing up for the RPGA/DCI.
Did you sign up for them back then? They weren't automatic. You had to specifically sign up for them. I think with the new DCI database everyone is enrolled when you fill out your info in the system after signing up for the RPGA/DCI.
I did sign up back then, I think the DM never bothered to report anything. Even the games I DMed he was the senior DM. I don't expect I'll ever get those rewards now.
Happy New Year.
-Timmy!
Colorado Springs
RPGA Club: Steele Justice
RTM
I got my letter a few weeks ago.
So don't lose hope.
-karma
)Point totals are being reset.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=RPGA/rewards/welcome
Point totals are being reset.
Errp.... I hope there is a way for newer RPGA members to get into this. I only started at the '08 GenCon. I'll be at the DnD XP at the end of the month, but looking at the welcome page I don't see much hope for me.
The new system, instead rewards the GM for taking that extra time to prep. This serves as both a "thank you" to the GM, and will hopefully entice players to step up and try their hand at running a table or two (or five) to earn rewards.
The PDF download contains all the D&D rewards cards for 2008, but is there any way to obtain PDFs of the Star Wars cards that came out?
Thanks,
-Scott
https://membership.wizards.com/login.aspx?ReturnURL=/signup/signup.aspx
If this came up somewhere I missed it, but I have players who want to know:
The PDF download contains all the D&D rewards cards for 2008, but is there any way to obtain PDFs of the Star Wars cards that came out?
Thanks,
-Scott
I brought up the same question here. There is currently no download, and no answer on whether there will ever be one, whether Star Wars GMs are eligible for the new DM rewards, whether there will be any kind of further Star Wars support, etc.
The best I can suggest is to bug Chris Tulach, [email]dci@wizards.com[/email], and Cust Help and help to make sure they understand that we want separate Star Wars support.
Starting in January 2009, the RPGA Rewards program (which consisted of two parts -- Player Rewards and GM Rewards) will make changes to emphasize rewarding DMs for their efforts. After reviewing our current program, we noticed that the vast majority of people who signed up for RPGA Rewards were also DMs, so we're making some changes to give them more incentive to DM than ever before, while at the same time helping out conventions and keeping our most-demanded reward (the RPGA Rewards cards) available to all.
If you are a current RPGA Rewards member, you don't need to do anything to enroll in DM Rewards; you are already enrolled. Just ensure your contact information is updated to receive your first reward in spring 2009 (see below for more information).
Here's an outline of the changes to rewards starting in 2009:
Receive rewards just for keeping current. Every year, all DM Rewards members will receive a special mailing in the spring (April-June) just for keeping their contact information current with us. The first year (2009), all existing old Rewards program members will automatically be transferred into the new program; you need to do nothing to transition to DM Rewards, although you should make sure your contact information is updated in order to receive your reward through the mail. After the first mailing, all you need to do is update your contact information at some point during 2009 to ensure you receive the mailing for 2010. Log in to your account, and click on "Personal Info" in the "My Links" navigation on the right side of the screen to update your contact information.
Receive rewards for being the DM. All adventures will have their point totals reset to 1 starting in 2009. Whenever you are the DM for a game session, you will earn a point. If you earn 5 or more points in a six-month cycle, you will receive something cool in the mail. If you earn fewer than 5 points, your points will carry over to the next cycle. See the chart below for rewards cycles and mailing schedules.
Receive a cool new adventure each year. We've completely overhauled what you'll be getting in the mail as well. Every year, all DM Rewards members will receive in their annual mailing a brand new adventure written by the Wizards staff. These will have a full-color cardstock cover and will have a full-color poster map insert with some of the feature encounter areas already laid out for you.
Receive rewards you can use. For your hard work as a DM, we'll be sending you something special twice a year, as long as you earn at least 5 points in your current Rewards cycle. What kinds of things? Well, we're going to mix it up each time, and we'll focus on giving you cool stuff that you'll actually use at your table or while prepping your game. Examples of things you might see include: new Rewards-only Dungeon Tiles, special artwork binders, full-color poster maps of interesting encounter areas, and new Rewards-only monsters and traps. As we approach the first mailing date, we'll have more information on what you'll receive in that mailing.
Rewards Name Earned By Mailing Month
Annual Mailing Updating contact information Spring (April-June)
DM Activity Mailing #1 5 points earned from January 1-June 30 August
DM Activity Mailing #2 5 points earned from July 1-December 31 February
Rewards Cards Update
Effective in 2009, you will no longer receive Rewards cards via the mail. However, we understand the popularity of the those cards to the program, and we want to give some incentives to convention-goers while keeping those of you that play at home up to speed with the new cards. In 2009, there are two ways you can receive new Rewards cards:
Attend a convention that has received support from Wizards. Starting in March 2009, any convention requesting RPG prize support from Wizards of the Coast will now receive twenty (20) Rewards cards with each RPG support package order, to be distributed to attendees at the discretion of the organizer. If you are a convention organizer and wish to find out more about our convention support program, visit our conventions page or email [email]conventionsupport@wizards.com[/email].
Unlock a PDF image of the Rewards cards posted on the RPGA website. Twice a year, we will have the previous convention support Rewards cards available as a locked PDF on the RPGA website at www.wizards.com/rpga. Simply click on "Downloads" from the navigation on the left side of the page, and look for the current Rewards cards download. The file will be a locked PDF; we'll send the password to your email inbox when the time is right. The 2008 cards are now available; the password to unlock the PDF was sent via the Rewards mailing and will also be included in our quarterly e-newletter, hitting your inbox this month.
1. What about my December points?
2. What about our points over 5?
2 questions:
1. What about my December points?
I'm guessing that those are simply lost to the transition, however this is as good a time as any to double-check that you've updated your mailing information in your rewards profile. I don't know if we'll be getting a bonus "thanks for updating your information" mailing, but now's a good time to get into the habit.
2. What about our points over 5?
Since the post says "5 or more points" gets you a mailing the current assumption is that anything over 5 is simply a good deed done.
I'd like to stress (again) that we'll likely get many of these answers at the DDXP RPGA Member's Meeting on Saturday the 31st.
My offer to ask questions on behalf of the community members who can't make it still stands - and I welcome you to check this thread for your chance to ask questions, as well as for information about my (potenial) live reporting (probably done via twitter - might use another service) of the meeting.
Errp.... I hope there is a way for newer RPGA members to get into this. I only started at the '08 GenCon. I'll be at the DnD XP at the end of the month, but looking at the welcome page I don't see much hope for me.
New DMs will certainly be able to sign-up and take part. This won't be a
system for only those currently in the system.
Well, if that was your concern.
Accordign to WotC... The password was sent in the mailings. If you don't get maling, they are supposedly goign to do an E-Newsletter. The password will be in that.
I didn't get the mailing, or if I did, it was lost in my spam folder. How would I have qualified to get the mailing? What kind of mailing is it?
Thanks!! The Warforged
grrr....
This process is very annoying. I've been a diligent DM and active contributor to the community. I have not seen one mailing or e-mail with this elusive password.
grrr....
shoot an email to [email]wpn@wizards.com[/email] tell them your RPGA# and ask for the PW. They responded to my request within 24hours.