Rewards Question - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Kensan_Oni May 30, 2009 9:34:24	So, last night, I judged a game, and a situation came up, and I am sure I initially called it right, but between not having ate, and being a little dopey, I wasn't sure, so I leaned in the player's favor. As I am sure this situation will come up again, I'm going to present it generically. Okay, so the players are going through the scenario, and the hit a social encounter. The Social Encounter includes a reward, but the NPC does not offer the reward unless players ask. The players, having played the scenario, rush through it, and under the philosophy of they don't want to be jerks to the NPC, just go do whatever. The BIG question, in my mind, is do they get the reward bundle for that encounter if it's never offered? It's not like a challenge and they failed. It's just a social (or development) encounter. While my thought is that the answer should be no, I realize I am new and might be making a mistake (especially with two other judges at the table). Which way is one suppose to handle such a situation?
#2 JohnduBois May 30, 2009 9:40:43	If the adventure specifically says that the NPC does not offer the reward OR provide the reward unless the PCs ask... I might not provide it. Generally speaking, I'm not a fan of "you didn't ask me about pay, so you're doing it pro bono" semantic traps, so if I was running the adventure, I'd DME it so that the PCs got the reward (unless it was a "get the reward, but also get this story award that calls you greedy" situation).
#3 bgibbons May 30, 2009 10:11:10	The Social Encounter includes a reward, but the NPC does not offer the reward unless players ask. The players, having played the scenario, rush through it, and under the philosophy of they don't want to be jerks to the NPC, just go do whatever. DME allows you to make such changes the adventure if you want. A general principle I use is that players will pay attention to the actual behavior the DM rewards and punishes, as opposed to the behavior the DM says he wants and doesn't want. For example, punishing the players for not being sufficiently assertive about how much of a reward they will receive for biting the adventure hook means that, in the 99% of adventures where PCs are expected to take what's being offered and like it, you're going to have to deal with PCs trying to argue for more money. It is quite common for the assumption to be that the players should be altruistic heroes who trust that they will be suitably rewarded in the end. It makes it easier to run RPGA adventures if the players behave that way, not wasting time dickering over rewards the DM can't change and just getting to the actual adventure, trusting the DM that they're not going to get screwed over for doing so. If you want player behavior like that, punishing it (even very rarely) is a bad idea.
#4 _Mithreinmaethor_ May 30, 2009 10:26:53	DME needs to go the way of the Dodo Bird.
#5 Fundin_Strongarm May 30, 2009 10:57:46	I wouldn't (and haven't) give them rewards they haven't earned. I sometimes haggle with the players on pay with the max being what is set out in the adventure. All depends on the group and how you want to run things.
#6 Kensan_Oni May 30, 2009 11:16:22	Okay. It seemed a bit funny to me, but it seems the concensus is the same here. I won't worry about that kind of thing next time it comes up. Thank you for your input.
#7 Dragon9 May 30, 2009 22:51:45	It's hard to comment on it without knowing everythign about the mod. Simpley "The NPC offers it if they ask, otherwise not" seems a wierd way to give out bundles in a mod. However, I tend not to gie out stuff they haven't earned. I remember in LG running an investigative mod and they were talking to an NPC who had pretty much all the info they needed to uncover a mystery that wouldn't derail the mod if they didn't get the info. It was worth xp at the end. The player's didn't ask the right questions (even with hints and prompting) and one player asked "Is there anything you haven't told us?" apparently expecting me to list off the bullet points. He whined like a little kid when he didn't get full xp. "But I asked him if there was anything else!" Slightly different situation, but similar. Nothing should be a gimme.
#8 bgibbons May 31, 2009 12:13:21	It's hard to comment on it without knowing everything about the mod. Simply "The NPC offers it if they ask, otherwise not" seems a weird way to give out bundles in a mod. However, I tend not to give out stuff they haven't earned. To give an example: Minor spoiler for AKAN1-3, Property for Sale In order for the PCs to gain max gold from the adventure, they have to argue with their employer about how much he's offering or why he wants them to do the mission, in which case he coughs up a little extra.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Kensan_Oni

May 30, 2009 9:34:24

So, last night, I judged a game, and a situation came up, and I am sure I initially called it right, but between not having ate, and being a little dopey, I wasn't sure, so I leaned in the player's favor. As I am sure this situation will come up again, I'm going to present it generically.

Okay, so the players are going through the scenario, and the hit a social encounter. The Social Encounter includes a reward, but the NPC does not offer the reward unless players ask. The players, having played the scenario, rush through it, and under the philosophy of they don't want to be jerks to the NPC, just go do whatever.

The BIG question, in my mind, is do they get the reward bundle for that encounter if it's never offered? It's not like a challenge and they failed. It's just a social (or development) encounter.

While my thought is that the answer should be no, I realize I am new and might be making a mistake (especially with two other judges at the table). Which way is one suppose to handle such a situation?

JohnduBois

May 30, 2009 9:40:43

If the adventure specifically says that the NPC does not offer the reward OR provide the reward unless the PCs ask... I *might* not provide it. Generally speaking, I'm not a fan of "you didn't ask me about pay, so you're doing it pro bono" semantic traps, so if I was running the adventure, I'd DME it so that the PCs got the reward (unless it was a "get the reward, but also get this story award that calls you greedy" situation).

bgibbons

May 30, 2009 10:11:10

The Social Encounter includes a reward, but the NPC does not offer the reward unless players ask. The players, having played the scenario, rush through it, and under the philosophy of they don't want to be jerks to the NPC, just go do whatever.

DME allows you to make such changes the adventure if you want.

A general principle I use is that players will pay attention to the actual behavior the DM rewards and punishes, as opposed to the behavior the DM says he wants and doesn't want.

For example, punishing the players for not being sufficiently assertive about how much of a reward they will receive for biting the adventure hook means that, in the 99% of adventures where PCs are expected to take what's being offered and like it, you're going to have to deal with PCs trying to argue for more money.

It is quite common for the assumption to be that the players should be altruistic heroes who trust that they will be suitably rewarded in the end. It makes it easier to run RPGA adventures if the players behave that way, not wasting time dickering over rewards the DM can't change and just getting to the actual adventure, trusting the DM that they're not going to get screwed over for doing so. If you want player behavior like that, punishing it (even very rarely) is a bad idea.

_Mithreinmaethor_

May 30, 2009 10:26:53

DME needs to go the way of the Dodo Bird.

Fundin_Strongarm

May 30, 2009 10:57:46

I wouldn't (and haven't) give them rewards they haven't earned. I sometimes haggle with the players on pay with the max being what is set out in the adventure. All depends on the group and how you want to run things.

Kensan_Oni

May 30, 2009 11:16:22

Okay. It seemed a bit funny to me, but it seems the concensus is the same here. I won't worry about that kind of thing next time it comes up. Thank you for your input.

Dragon9

May 30, 2009 22:51:45

It's hard to comment on it without knowing everythign about the mod. Simpley "The NPC offers it if they ask, otherwise not" seems a wierd way to give out bundles in a mod. However, I tend not to gie out stuff they haven't earned.

I remember in LG running an investigative mod and they were talking to an NPC who had pretty much all the info they needed to uncover a mystery that wouldn't derail the mod if they didn't get the info. It was worth xp at the end. The player's didn't ask the right questions (even with hints and prompting) and one player asked "Is there anything you haven't told us?" apparently expecting me to list off the bullet points. He whined like a little kid when he didn't get full xp. "But I asked him if there was anything else!"

Slightly different situation, but similar. Nothing should be a gimme.

bgibbons

May 31, 2009 12:13:21

It's hard to comment on it without knowing everything about the mod. Simply "The NPC offers it if they ask, otherwise not" seems a weird way to give out bundles in a mod. However, I tend not to give out stuff they haven't earned.

To give an example:

Minor spoiler for AKAN1-3, Property for Sale

In order for the PCs to gain max gold from the adventure, they have to argue with their employer about how much he's offering or why he wants them to do the mission, in which case he coughs up a little extra.