The RPGA Membership DB's Future

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

arin12

Jan 28, 2009 9:18:02
Okay... this is, admittedly, one of those rant-and-complain type posts, so before I go to town I want to insert two caveats into my concerns:

1) I highly appreciate all of the efforts that Wizards of the Coast has put forth regarding the RPGA. They've made it a highly enjoyable experience through Living Greyhawk and Living Forgotten Realms, they've produced (mostly) high quality in the modules, given the DMs a lot of table leeway, generously allowed myself and other volunteers to take on leadership roles in bringing these things to the game table, and boldly led us through a world-wide implementation in which my character can literally travel across continents and still find a table to play at.

2) As a general rule for ranting, I try to incorporate alternate solutions to every problem I "complain" about, as I know far too many people will whine about problems and not offer solutions. This does tend to make my post rather long winded, and for that, I apologize profusely.

Okay. That said, I couldn't really find any place within the RPGA's login section to express these concerns (and I admit, there is something somewhat satisfying about making this an "open letter" to those who control the RPGA Database), so I'm going to post them here. Ultra-cool VCL dude, if you could possibly point Mister Tulach or whoever is most appropriate in the direction of this post for an "official" response, would be highly appreciated. ;)

The RPGA database, in my opinion, simply doesn't work as it currently exists. There are several areas to discuss:

First and most important problem is the process of getting members added to the system. We have two different types of cards now - DCI, and RPGA. The DCI cards work okay enough for our purposes, since the new recruit can use that code thingy at the bottom to establish his or her account in the database. Doesn't work so well for Wizards, since, as far as I know, the only reliable thing they get out of it is the recruit's email address, as opposed to all the other data the form asks for that could be so useful for mailing lists or at least compiling statistics on what regions have the most RPGA members and such. However, for some unknowable reason, this fails to save their name into the DB - I have several members who, when I put in their number to report an event, it requires me to type in their name, making me wonder if I'd input the number wrong, but then once I type in their name, it has the list of their current LFR characters listed by their editted names ("Zondar" instead of "Default Character"). A minor nuisance, one that would seemingly be easily solved just by having the database actually save the name of the player the first time I type it in.

The RPGA cards, however (the preferred cards of my specific group since they have a lot of anti-DCI stigma and want their cards to declare them to be *RPGA* members, not DCI members), currently do not have codes on them at all, and the only way an RPGA member will ever get to successfully log in to his/her account is if the card actually makes it back to Renton, WA, to be input by a data monkey (I swear I mean that in the nicest possible way - we love our data monkeys!) and then - because my RPGA players are VERY lucky and I've been around long enough to remember the default password, because no one EVER contacts them with it (I'm not sure if it's kosher to post it here, PM me if you're pulling your hair out) - they can get in. This process is cumbersome and takes weeks, and I have ideas on how to streamline it, but before I go there, let me acknowledge that if the lag were the only problem, there'd be no real "issue" - it'd be something that could be lived with.

The problem that spurs me to write this, however, is what happens when that process breaks down. Cards get lost in the mail, or, horror of horrors, get lost in my backpack before I can scrounge up the change to put a postage stamp on them, or get lost by my players if I allow them to take responsibility for the mailing themselves. When this happens, I attempt to add the member to the database by contacting [email]dci@wizards.com[/email] - largely because, before they merged, I was able to contact the old address and my problem got resolved. Now, however, I'm told by their responders (after several days lag, and sometimes requiring multiple emails to get a response) that they cannot take online submissions because of COPPA and privacy concerns (this is even when I've already sent them the information in open email, so, well, too late for the privacy concern, and the DOBs I've listed clearly show that all the members I'm attempting to add are 13 and older), and that my only choices are to find the form for that number and mail it in, or issue a new RPGA card to my member. The former choice is impossible, since it's a missing form prompting me to contact them, and the latter choice is untenable, as my member usually is level 3 or 4 by the time I get that response, and all of those reported mods are tied to that player's current RPGA number!

My suggestions for solutions are simple: Give more power to your DM volunteers. Allow us to enter the information on the form into the database directly to create new members; this will save the time and energy on whichever employee at WotC is currently overwhelmed by all the forms coming in, and give more immediate gratification to the player, who can log into his account right away. In the case of members under 13, if it's really that big an issue to get the information "online", then put a thing in the online form that checks the DOB and says, "This member is under 13, this form must be submitted by mail." In the event that the form is lost somewhere along the way, a fax or a sent letter with the information should be sufficient to replace the form without having to assign a new RPGA number.

Now, problem #2 is how character information is stored. The chief problem is that no one but the actual member has access to their character information - this is self-defeating as the purpose of having such information, presumably, is so that we DMs can make sure visiting players from other areas aren't CHEATING, much in the way we used to check ARs in Living Greyhawk to make sure a person was the level they said they were and had the stuff they said they had.

My proposed solution would be to allow Heralds and above access to the full character database - give us a spot to type in the RPGA number of the player and have that player's characters available to us for view. Now, there shouldn't be a privacy concern since we're talking about CHARACTER information, not information about the players, however, if there's a concern about security and information sharing, one could allow the players themselves to create an "allowed access list" whereby they would enter the RPGA numbers of those GMs and Senior GMs who should be allowed access to their character information, and the GM, instead of entering an RPGA number to see the characters, would simply get a list of those players whose characters s/he was "allowed" to view.

Problem #3 is simply cosmetic - the character database doesn't give enough information. Specifically, it does not tell exactly how much experience was awarded to a character, so we can't see the "running total" (and yes, my players forget, because they don't use the handy achievement forms like they should) and it does not tell us when they took a bundle in a mod or what bundle letter it was. (I'm finally getting on top of this in my own club by keeping my own database on all this stuff, but we've been active since 4th Ed came out so the catchup is hair-pulling).

Soluton: Add this information. For extra credit, also put in a form, similar to the event reporting form, where a player could declare that he or she bought a magic item and how much was paid for it, and make that a line item on the character database sheet.

Lastly, and to be honest, leastly, a little reform in the appeals process would be nice. Specifically, if a Senior GM made a mistake in their event reporting form (for example, assigned a mod to a certain player's character #2 instead of character #1), then they should be able to correct the mistake themselves rather than go through the lengthy process of getting the information tweaked. This, admittedly, would require the database to keep track of which GM entered what information, which, while nice, may be more expensive in terms of programming changes and database size for the very small tradeoff of fixing typos faster. Besides, if my other suggestions are implemented and WotC employees no longer have to deal with a million forms, then they'll have more time to focus on appeals and it'll go faster. ;)

Thank you for listening to my long rant. Implementation of these requests will vastly decrease the headaches I get in trying to spread my favorite pasttime to the masses.
#2

Reylance

Jan 28, 2009 13:28:53
For #2, you can't rely on the database to be accurate. Entire conventions are missing, or even have disappeared entirely after once being included in the database (Gen Con 1994 for me). Many events are applied to the wrong characters. Until I can manually override what was entered in the database, I won't have accurate character listings.
#3

kenobi65

Jan 28, 2009 13:55:49
For #2, you can't rely on the database to be accurate. Entire conventions are missing, or even have disappeared entirely after once being included in the database (Gen Con 1994 for me). Many events are applied to the wrong characters. Until I can manually override what was entered in the database, I won't have accurate character listings.

And, in addition to that, the RPGA, and the LFR staff, have pretty much stated that they're not particularly interested in policing for cheating anymore. It's why character record-keeping has largely moved to an "honor system", with DMs no longer being required to sign anything.
#4

telvin3d

Jan 28, 2009 14:05:12
And, in addition to that, the RPGA, and the LFR staff, have pretty much stated that they're not particularly interested in policing for cheating anymore. It's why character record-keeping has largely moved to an "honor system", with DMs no longer being required to sign anything.

They have also shown no interested in reforming the database into a player or DM resource. From their point of view, the whole ordering /reporting system is simply a way to generate information on who is playing what. It's more a market research tool than anything else.
#5

jeffv

Jan 28, 2009 14:54:38
Allow us to enter the information on the form into the database directly to create new members; this will save the time and energy on whichever employee at WotC is currently overwhelmed by all the forms coming in, and give more immediate gratification to the player, who can log into his account right away. In the case of members under 13, if it's really that big an issue to get the information "online", then put a thing in the online form that checks the DOB and says, "This member is under 13, this form must be submitted by mail." In the event that the form is lost somewhere along the way, a fax or a sent letter with the information should be sufficient to replace the form without having to assign a new RPGA number.

A couple of points in response to this.

First off, the DCI/RPGA isn't going to give direct database access to anyone who doesn't truly need it. There are very, very few people outside the company who have any kind of access to WotC's OPIS player database, whether it's for entry only or not, and they certainly don't give access to people they don't officially know. Someone can get to Herald status by having a number and taking an online test. There's no interaction with anyone from Wizards anywhere along that line, so as far as Wizards is concerned it's a security issue.

Secondly, many years ago the DCI used to have a method for outside entry of person records. It was convoluted and a pain in the ***, but it existed and some people (like me) did use it. If memory serves, that method was phased out around 2001-2002. There were many reasons for this, including advances in Wizards' database, but also concerns related to COPPA (which went into full effect in 2001).

Before I start talking about COPPA, IANAL, but I've had a fair bit of experience dealing with it in the past and I've also read quite a bit about it. COPPA's a big deal, and not something you screw around with. Companies have been fined upwards of a million dollars for COPPA violations. I used to administrate a large online message board for Magic, and I was allowed to bend and break all kinds of rules we had set up there for my members, but one of the (very few) things that the site's owner forbade us from doing was messing around with the site's COPPA enforcement mechanism in any way.

What you really want are the people actually registering for the DCI/RPGA telling WotC directly that they're over the age of 13. If you have that statement going through an intermediary (a DM), then that person could get in trouble right along with WotC, and that's not something they want to deal with. However, if you have that person dealing directly with WotC - whether it be by filling out their own card and having it mailed in, or by contacting CS to request a membership number - they're dealing direct with WotC and it works out fine.
#6

arin12

Jan 29, 2009 9:31:39
A couple of points in response to this.

First off, the DCI/RPGA isn't going to give direct database access to anyone who doesn't truly need it. There are very, very few people outside the company who have any kind of access to WotC's OPIS player database, whether it's for entry only or not, and they certainly don't give access to people they don't officially know. Someone can get to Herald status by having a number and taking an online test. There's no interaction with anyone from Wizards anywhere along that line, so as far as Wizards is concerned it's a security issue.

I already have access to WotC's OPIS player database. I have a login and a password and access to information contained within it - information pertaining to my character, my GM level, and events that I'm sanctioning and reporting. When I type in other peoples' RPGA numbers, the database returns with their full names.

There is no extra security issue involved with adding an "add member" form. It's the same functionality as an event reporting form.

Secondly, many years ago the DCI used to have a method for outside entry of person records. It was convoluted and a pain in the ***, but it existed and some people (like me) did use it. If memory serves, that method was phased out around 2001-2002. There were many reasons for this, including advances in Wizards' database, but also concerns related to COPPA (which went into full effect in 2001).

There are literally millions of websites out there that allow users to register on them. These very forums did so. And the vast majority of those millions simply have a spot where they ask for date of birth - just like the membership forms do - and refuse to collect the information online if the individual is under 13. (Whether that law makes sense is an issue beyond the scope of this discussion; the simple fact is that, currently, the legal requirement is there.)

It's not unreasonable to ask the RPGA website to do the same. Hell, if having an intermediary fill out the form is such a big issue, put the form right on the main RPGA page - the user will still need to get a card from the DM to put the RPGA number in.
#7

WolfStar76

Jan 30, 2009 8:01:17
Okay. That said, I couldn't really find any place within the RPGA's login section to express these concerns (and I admit, there is something somewhat satisfying about making this an "open letter" to those who control the RPGA Database), so I'm going to post them here. Ultra-cool VCL dude, if you could possibly point Mister Tulach or whoever is most appropriate in the direction of this post for an "official" response, would be highly appreciated. ;)

While there isn't any place within the DCI system directly, you can always forward information to Customer Service via the "contact Us" link at the bottom of these pages, or by visiting http://wizards.custhelp.com.

Alas, while I'm at DDXP I don't have time to read through the rest of this post at this time - however I will try to get back to this next week as time allows (not that I'm anyone official).

Most of the other forumties will steer you in the right direction(s), however.