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TPK?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
scelous
May 10, 2009 21:26:25 What happens if there's a total-party kill? Does the party get XP up until the wipe? Do they get half of the xp of the encounter they died in?
#2
telvin3d
May 10, 2009 21:41:49 There is a preface at the start of every adventure that tells the DM how to handle different situations. Each character gets a choice. Choice 1 is to pay the 500GP to get resurrected. In this case, the character gains any experience they had earned up to their death as well as any treasure or story rewards they had earned. The second option is the death charity clause. This is free but the PC gets any experience earned prior to demise but gains no treasure or story rewards. They may not play the adventure again with that character in either case.

Your DM (or you) should refer to the preface of any module for specific details.
#3
scelous
May 10, 2009 22:17:00 I'm the DM and read the preface, and also noticed the same rules under the RPGA rules pdf. The thing that had me confused is the rules always made it seem like success was a foregone conclusion. For instance, "Failing to Defeat an Encounter" states: "if they have to flee from combat because it's too tough or they reach the predetermined number of failures in a skill challenge before reaching success." There was no mention of failure simply through losing the combat, instead of running away.

It may seem like nitpicking, but I just wanted to make sure there was no obscure clause I was overlooking, perhaps a "TPK" rule I had missed in one of the FAQs. It's good to know that I can apply the rules as stated to a TPK, and will do so with the group I ran the adventure for.
#4
Istaran
May 11, 2009 4:01:48 my understanding was if the party could not recover the body to arrange an in game Raise Dead ritual (such as in the case of a TPK) that charity of death clause was to be used (or the player could chose to end the character's career. Some people would rather have the death 'stick'). As I recall the text says charity of death is for if they cannot or chose not to pay for a Raise Dead ritual.. if you can't get to a ritual caster, that qualifies as cannot.
#5
Keith53
May 11, 2009 6:20:58 Whether you run away or the PCs just die (or are all knocked unconcious), those are considered failures. Failure at an encounter still gets you half xp for that encounter.

I think there is an assumption that TPKs are rare.

Keith
#6
redwulfe
May 11, 2009 16:52:34 If a PC wishes his death to stick then all he has to do is retire the character. Not every player of LFR is going to have the same enjoyability of an experience as another and this should be the main drive for the GM. I personally do not like killing PCs it is not my goal, so I have the monsters subdue them. I usually run an hour to 30 minutes ahead of schedule and if they all get subdued I give them an additional encounter where they have to escape and then they are allowed to complete the module. the penalty for not completing the previous encounter is replaced by giving them a second attempt but they get no XP for the escape encounter. To date I have only had to knock out one player. I feel that you can take players to the edge of life and death without having to take them over that edge. It is the thrill of being at that edge that most players want, it is truly heroic to be fighting for your life and succeed or to fail and then make a daring escape to win the day. It is not very heroic to die at the hands of the enemy you just faced. Personally, this is a DME that I use to make the modules more enjoyable for my players. always remember your job as a DM is not to kill players and rack up a tally, it is not to win, it is not to punish the players for bad die rolls, or for your displeasure at some combo they put together. It is your job as a DM to create an enjoyable experience for the players that you are running for. Now that the Player Rewards are gone it is the only thing they get from playing, don't take it from them by being a rules lawyer. D&D 4E is a flexible game and allows you as the DM to be flexible as well.

Red
#7
festivus
May 12, 2009 10:55:16
Whether you run away or the PCs just die (or are all knocked unconcious), those are considered failures. Failure at an encounter still gets you half xp for that encounter.

I think there is an assumption that TPKs are rare.

Keith

You have not run East 1-4 yet huh?
#8
wagnert
May 12, 2009 20:52:39
You have not run East 1-4 yet huh?

We just played EAST1-4 last Friday with a party of 4 at low tier. The party included a level 1 bard, plus a level 2 rogue, a level 1 gnome illusionist (wizard with illusion spells), and a level 4 fighter. We whipped through the adventure fairly easily, with the gnome being the only character to drop briefly before the bard healed him. The bard had some interesting powers that really helped the party.

We thought it was an entertaining, slightly challenging adventure and rated it 4 out of 5.
#9
poder_miservel
May 15, 2009 14:06:48 what if an epic pc keeps a pinch of his hair or some blood in the trusted hands of his church/organization/npc in case of horrible death?
Assuming for example if te pc is a demigod or anyother prestigious epic destiny, there are people in the world who will want the pc alive (provided the pc let the material components pre-paid XD).
#10
KarmaInferno
May 15, 2009 18:38:50 You can roleplay the exact situation and particulars on how you came back all you like, really. It's fluff.

Mechanically, though, it's abstracted as either getting a Raise Dead ritual or invoking the Charity of Friends clause from the CCG.

-karma
#11
poder_miservel
May 15, 2009 22:36:04 i just pointed taht out because if you die desintegrated or something like that, even if you have the money you wont have body parts for the raise dead ritual making you impossible to ressurrect
#12
KarmaInferno
May 17, 2009 18:51:25 That's what the Charity of Friends rules are for.

Invoke the Death Charity clause. If the group cannot afford to pay for the ritual, doesn’t desire to pay for it, or doesn’t have access to the body, the PC can choose to return back to life at the end of the adventure. Doing so forfeits all rewards (including treasure and story rewards) earned for the adventure except experience points gained prior to the character’s death (the character receives the experience point award for the encounter in which they died). The PC cannot participate in the same adventure a second time.

-karma

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 scelous May 10, 2009 21:26:25	What happens if there's a total-party kill? Does the party get XP up until the wipe? Do they get half of the xp of the encounter they died in?
#2 telvin3d May 10, 2009 21:41:49	There is a preface at the start of every adventure that tells the DM how to handle different situations. Each character gets a choice. Choice 1 is to pay the 500GP to get resurrected. In this case, the character gains any experience they had earned up to their death as well as any treasure or story rewards they had earned. The second option is the death charity clause. This is free but the PC gets any experience earned prior to demise but gains no treasure or story rewards. They may not play the adventure again with that character in either case. Your DM (or you) should refer to the preface of any module for specific details.
#3 scelous May 10, 2009 22:17:00	I'm the DM and read the preface, and also noticed the same rules under the RPGA rules pdf. The thing that had me confused is the rules always made it seem like success was a foregone conclusion. For instance, "Failing to Defeat an Encounter" states: "if they have to flee from combat because it's too tough or they reach the predetermined number of failures in a skill challenge before reaching success." There was no mention of failure simply through losing the combat, instead of running away. It may seem like nitpicking, but I just wanted to make sure there was no obscure clause I was overlooking, perhaps a "TPK" rule I had missed in one of the FAQs. It's good to know that I can apply the rules as stated to a TPK, and will do so with the group I ran the adventure for.
#4 Istaran May 11, 2009 4:01:48	my understanding was if the party could not recover the body to arrange an in game Raise Dead ritual (such as in the case of a TPK) that charity of death clause was to be used (or the player could chose to end the character's career. Some people would rather have the death 'stick'). As I recall the text says charity of death is for if they cannot or chose not to pay for a Raise Dead ritual.. if you can't get to a ritual caster, that qualifies as cannot.
#5 Keith53 May 11, 2009 6:20:58	Whether you run away or the PCs just die (or are all knocked unconcious), those are considered failures. Failure at an encounter still gets you half xp for that encounter. I think there is an assumption that TPKs are rare. Keith
#6 redwulfe May 11, 2009 16:52:34	If a PC wishes his death to stick then all he has to do is retire the character. Not every player of LFR is going to have the same enjoyability of an experience as another and this should be the main drive for the GM. I personally do not like killing PCs it is not my goal, so I have the monsters subdue them. I usually run an hour to 30 minutes ahead of schedule and if they all get subdued I give them an additional encounter where they have to escape and then they are allowed to complete the module. the penalty for not completing the previous encounter is replaced by giving them a second attempt but they get no XP for the escape encounter. To date I have only had to knock out one player. I feel that you can take players to the edge of life and death without having to take them over that edge. It is the thrill of being at that edge that most players want, it is truly heroic to be fighting for your life and succeed or to fail and then make a daring escape to win the day. It is not very heroic to die at the hands of the enemy you just faced. Personally, this is a DME that I use to make the modules more enjoyable for my players. always remember your job as a DM is not to kill players and rack up a tally, it is not to win, it is not to punish the players for bad die rolls, or for your displeasure at some combo they put together. It is your job as a DM to create an enjoyable experience for the players that you are running for. Now that the Player Rewards are gone it is the only thing they get from playing, don't take it from them by being a rules lawyer. D&D 4E is a flexible game and allows you as the DM to be flexible as well. Red
#7 festivus May 12, 2009 10:55:16	Whether you run away or the PCs just die (or are all knocked unconcious), those are considered failures. Failure at an encounter still gets you half xp for that encounter. I think there is an assumption that TPKs are rare. Keith You have not run East 1-4 yet huh?
#8 wagnert May 12, 2009 20:52:39	You have not run East 1-4 yet huh? We just played EAST1-4 last Friday with a party of 4 at low tier. The party included a level 1 bard, plus a level 2 rogue, a level 1 gnome illusionist (wizard with illusion spells), and a level 4 fighter. We whipped through the adventure fairly easily, with the gnome being the only character to drop briefly before the bard healed him. The bard had some interesting powers that really helped the party. We thought it was an entertaining, slightly challenging adventure and rated it 4 out of 5.
#9 poder_miservel May 15, 2009 14:06:48	what if an epic pc keeps a pinch of his hair or some blood in the trusted hands of his church/organization/npc in case of horrible death? Assuming for example if te pc is a demigod or anyother prestigious epic destiny, there are people in the world who will want the pc alive (provided the pc let the material components pre-paid XD).
#10 KarmaInferno May 15, 2009 18:38:50	You can roleplay the exact situation and particulars on how you came back all you like, really. It's fluff. Mechanically, though, it's abstracted as either getting a Raise Dead ritual or invoking the Charity of Friends clause from the CCG. -karma
#11 poder_miservel May 15, 2009 22:36:04	i just pointed taht out because if you die desintegrated or something like that, even if you have the money you wont have body parts for the raise dead ritual making you impossible to ressurrect
#12 KarmaInferno May 17, 2009 18:51:25	That's what the Charity of Friends rules are for. Invoke the Death Charity clause. If the group cannot afford to pay for the ritual, doesn’t desire to pay for it, or doesn’t have access to the body, the PC can choose to return back to life at the end of the adventure. Doing so forfeits all rewards (including treasure and story rewards) earned for the adventure except experience points gained prior to the character’s death (the character receives the experience point award for the encounter in which they died). The PC cannot participate in the same adventure a second time. -karma