Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Seakog Aug 01, 2011 14:51:49	Not the 4 figure starter piece that we saw before. A 40 piece line of prepaints. Why is it that the largest gaming company in the world can't make this work, but a mid range and recovering from near obilivion company can team up and get this out? Hmmmm.....
#2 majesticmoose Aug 01, 2011 14:59:48	Because of differing priorities.  Paizo has the luxury to produce a product likely with a very low margin, and frankly WotC may not have that luxury.
#3 helnae Aug 01, 2011 14:59:50	I believe I recall hearing something about smaller companies being satisfied with smaller projected profit. Not sure if it is applicable here though.
#4 majesticmoose Aug 01, 2011 15:08:37	It absolutely is. example: WotC had a model for producing figs.  that model became outdated due to rising cost and system bloat (seriously way too many redundant figs).  WotC is also controlled by Hasbro.  I'm not a Hasborg hater, but I will say as a multi million dollar company, Hasbro has thousands of ways to invest it's money in various products.  If the ROI for figs was expected at 2% and every other opportunity for Hasbro is 4% or higher, they will likely not allow a low margin item to roll out.  Alternatively, the risk may be too high, as larger companies (for better and worse) grow more conservative in their products (and that is just life). Paizo on the other hand is building a new structure with their product.  read the product page. Sealed cases likely contain teh entire set (or very nearly). A booster is 1-2 figs.  A large booster is a large fig. This is a completely differing model of distrobution and packaging than previosu attempts at CMG.  Wizkids and WotC made no assertions that a sealed purchase of "blank" would result in reliable draws.  the boosters were large, ensuring a higher price point.  They marketed to distributors who would place the figs on the primary market, but Paizo seems to be catering to the collector directly, partially bypassing the brick and mortar.  They also are going to change the secondary market with the nearly complete collection case. They are willing to take the risk (as most smaller companies must do to survive and grow) adn are willign to settle for a lower margin. This is really like business/ Cost accounting 310.
#5 Gunthar Aug 01, 2011 15:15:45	Buy a booster, you MIGHT get a figure you like. But it's a good price point for impulse buying.
#6 szthesquid Aug 01, 2011 15:16:35	Someone really needs to do some non-random fantasy miniatures. We don't need a huge number -- maybe one to three different models of each creature type. I don't care about Beholder variant 37; one or two standard Beholder figures are good enough to start, especially considering that I can repaint them if I need to. Heck, even produce them in different numbers. Make lots of generic zombie figures, and comparatively less giant dragons -- but don't make iconic or great-looking figures hard to get. There's a reason people stopped buying Wizards D&D minis -- the figures that everyone wanted were the hardest to find, and random boosters meant that if I was looking for a certain creature I would be better off on eBay where Wizards doesn't make any money. I bet that the Pathfinder minis will be more successful than Wizard's D&D minis. It looks like there will still be a random selection, but a case will get you pretty much the whole set. So if you have the money to spend you're likely to get exactly what you want. There are a few very successful lines of miniatures that make money because you can get exactly the model you want. Warhammer, Reaper, and Privateer Press come to mind. Wizards should either buy a company like Reaper or adopt a similar model.
#7 majesticmoose Aug 01, 2011 15:29:16	Having come off the Star Wars mini-quest of a life time and playing the RPG too, I have some serious issues with how WotC did set lists and species choices. Now, I remember reading previously, that older models for non-random mini sales just didn't really work unless coupled with a Game Workshop mentality of kinda screwing over the customer.  I know it's a tough model to make work, especially if jumping into the market with a new IP (for instance, star Wars minis probably could have gone non random and worked, but that's hindsight). What I find interesting is that Catalyst and ... Heavy Metal PRo? ... do non-random mini's for B-tech and do quite well.  Partially this is because they are producing an IP with 30+ years of history, but also they take the most popular pieces, package them with one less popular, sell as sets AND are willing to do some form of mold on demand, for a high price. I haven't looked into it very hard but that model helps reduce waste adn production costs for the company by passing it on to the consumer, much like print on demand for books. What I do know is Paizo is taking a risk.  Oil ain't gettin cheaper, and production costs will only rise.  Plus the value of buying individual packs is a bit low.  My guess is they are really trying to create a unique interaction with teh secondary market of collectors and allow the market to determine the need for random and non-random. It'll be interesting to see the effects this has.
#8 Gunthar Aug 01, 2011 15:31:23	You got pretty much the whole set by buying cases of DDM too. No difference there. And news flash: There's a reason for a lack of non-randomized pre-paints on the market. Also, WotC produced hordes of zombies, skeletons, etc. they were called commons. Because others weren't horde monsters they produced less of those, called uncommons and rares.
#9 majesticmoose Aug 01, 2011 15:50:33	You got pretty much the whole set by buying cases of DDM too. No difference there. And news flash: There's a reason for a lack of non-randomized pre-paints on the market. Also, WotC produced hordes of zombies, skeletons, etc. they were called commons. Because others weren't horde monsters they produced less of those, called uncommons and rares. Only thing I'll point out is that WotC never once said, or even implied, that buying X cases of product would give you X% chance of getting the whole set. The distro is different here because during production the figs will likely be packaged in such a way as to a.) prevent duplication in a brick (1/4 a case) b.) Cases will be packaged to prevent duplication in bricks as  is possible. That is a goal, one not often shared in randomized CMG. Liek I said, it is interesting because they are shifting the burden of pricing and providing non-randoms to the secondary market BUT with this idea that there is a buy in price for a whole set.  Note also, that the price point is HIGH!  easily the rival of Star Wars minis and they don't have that IP royalty to deal with.  (1 case is 64 regular boosters and 12 large.  assume 1/3 of regular are small sized packages, $275 gets you about 40 medium, 40 small, and 12 large with some variation.  in SW a case 12 boxes, got you 84 figures, for about $100. That is a steep price for those pathfinder figs)
#10 szthesquid Aug 01, 2011 15:53:49	Also, WotC produced hordes of zombies, skeletons, etc. they were called commons. Because others weren't horde monsters they produced less of those, called uncommons and rares. The rarity was "common", but how many people managed to collect enough zombies to play a horde? Yes, the zombie fig was ostensibly "common" but so were twelve other figs. If all you wanted from the set were the new zombies, you pretty much had to resort to the secondary market, and that's a problem when the miniatures are being used as accessories for a non-random game like D&D.
#11 Gunthar Aug 01, 2011 16:00:13	You either get a lot of randomized minis for a cheap price or a few non-randomized for a big price, your choice.