Not only the contraversy but alot of the iffy subjects including deities.
I was wondering if there was something equally indepth or possibly another variation of D&D such as the "Star Wars: Saga Edition Rpg"
The only problem with SW is the lack of a MonsterManual or depth within classes or Creatures.
I dont want this to turn into a religious debate so please dont make it one :D
Maybe there is another game that is very similair or compatible with the D&D MonsterManuals or like it?
The deities in SW arent at all emphasized or even required as the characters and classes make little too no reference to them.
Please realize that I personally have no problem with D&D except for some iffy parts that I have already mentioned. The real problem is in its contraversial past. Its automatically known more for its negative than its positive :S
Its automatically known more for its negative than its positive :S
Only by the ignorant.
Buy all the stuff, play the game, and call it something else.
I consider myself to be very open-minded, so I hope you dont get the opposite idea from me.
The fact is that I am in a sort of leadership position and I am looked up to. This puts a pressure on me to consider my actions, no matter how innocent, and be aware that what I do will be examined and studied by those who look up to me.
Knowing this, you must understand that D&D may be a fun-loving and awesomely creative (This is what originally drew me in) game, but I must consider the effects of my actions on both the informed and the ignorant.
I am in love with the concept of D&D.
The depth of every aspect completely captures my interest.
I am not arguing or enforcing my beliefs on any of you, but please understand that I believe in this Faith.
As a Youth Pastor, I have absolutely no issue with DnD. I understand that more conservative denominations might.
Buy all the stuff, play the game, and call it something else.
(Honest question, No Sarcasm AT ALL)
How do you get away from the relation between the deities and magic and occult IN-GAME, Despite the scripture being against that sort of thing?
Im sure you must have encountered this objection already,so howd you work around it
So, use that leadership position to educate and inform people and demonstrate that D&D is just a harmless game. The issue here isn't your faith, it's you succumbing to peer pressure. You're not worried about D&D being against your religionl, you're worried about what people will think of you.
It's not peer-pressure so much as it is being responsible.
Consider it like a politician, and how much their image means, not for themselves, but for the sake of those they lead.
Peer pressure is for your gain, where in this case it isnt.
As a Youth Pastor, I have absolutely no issue with DnD. I understand that more conservative denominations might.
Buy all the stuff, play the game, and call it something else.
(Honest question, No Sarcasm AT ALL)
How do you get away from the relation between the deities and magic and occult IN-GAME, Despite the scripture being against that sort of thing?
Im sure you must have encountered this objection already,so howd you work around it
It's just imaginary. It's not a cult, it's not a substitute form of worship. It's just a game, nothing more. People who play Monopoly aren't accused of being corporate raiders. People who play Battleship aren't submarine commanders.
Pretty sure the scriptures never said anything about not playing games.
As a Youth Pastor, I have absolutely no issue with DnD. I understand that more conservative denominations might.
Buy all the stuff, play the game, and call it something else.
(Honest question, No Sarcasm AT ALL)
How do you get away from the relation between the deities and magic and occult IN-GAME, Despite the scripture being against that sort of thing?
Im sure you must have encountered this objection already,so howd you work around it
Likely because it's just a game, same as how children play Soldier.
But, the problem is magnified due to its contraversy, like I said.
People dont see "Oh, its just a game"
They see "Oh, you imagine yourself as a wizard who ressurects the dead and communes with spirits???"
It isn't like I'm worshipping the deities or anything.
Due to alot of the contraversy surrounding this game, it makes it hard to play a game like this.
Not only the contraversy but alot of the iffy subjects including deities.
I was wondering if there was something equally indepth or possibly another variation of D&D such as the "Star Wars: Saga Edition Rpg"
The only problem with SW is the lack of a MonsterManual or depth within classes or Creatures.
I dont want this to turn into a religious debate so please dont make it one :D
Well my first introduction to D&D was from the pastor at my church, so being in a "leadership position" doesn't preclude you from playing the game.
Why don't you give us some more specifics about your situation and then maybe we can better assist you?
Without knowing any specifics, I would just say play the game and call it something else. Call it Monsters & Mayhem or Dragon Strike or DungeonQuest or something similar. If you happen to have an old fantasy D&D-like board game like Dragon Strike, Heroquest, or Descent, you could even package your books, maps, and minis in that box to make it look legit. If there's any material in the game that you think will be found objectionable (such as polytheistic deities), just remove that item and replace it with something more suitable for the environment.
You could also just try being up front and talking about it with anyone you think might have an issue. I've run across several people that objected to the game, but it is usually an easy fix. Sit down with that person, have reasonable discussion where you talk about the game and address whatever issues they have with it, and even invite them to sit in on a session. That type of openness tends to contradict peoples' fears of some evil occult game that will induct them into some sort of satanic witchcraft coven.
I agree Salla
But, the problem is magnified due to its contraversy, like I said.
People dont see "Oh, its just a game"They see "Oh, you imagine yourself as a wizard who ressurects the dead and communes with spirits???"
Correct answer: No.
More detail: I imagine the fantasy character I am playing - not me - as a wizard. Fantasy clerics - God's servants - are more into resurrecting dead, and fantasy shamans - sort of like nature-worshipping fandasy clerics - commune with spirits.
During the height of the whole '80's satan-worshipping hysteria, my 4th-grade Catholic Catechism teacher, Sister Maria, played the party's cleric in the game I ran in our classroom after class.
At my Catholic high school, the resident priest asked to borrow my 1st Ed. rule books so he could understand what all the old scandal was about. His response could best be summed up as "OMFG, R U SRS???".
It's just a game.
You have a choice...
If you want to be "responsible" as a Christian leader, preventing those in your community from being led astray by baseless hatred and fear instilled in them by those who have those things in their hearts, then don't bow to hysteria and gossip, boldly play the game and take any instance of anyone questioning it as an opportunity to EDUCATE THE IGNORANT. Ask them what they based their opinion on, where they've gotten their information on the subject. Ask them if they've ever played it. Explain the game to them, using logic and reason. Invite them to play.
Point out your position of leadership, the respect other people have for you in your organization or community, and then ask the person if they honestly think that you, of all people, would recklessly do something to endanger that.
(Seriously - if someone gives you serious crap about playing D&D, about it being against scripture, ask them if they condemn their local tv station for showing The"Wizard" of Oz or regularly burn grade-schoolers at the stake for being witches if they admit to being Harry Potter fans...
I've read both the Quran and the Jewish Kaballa - and yet neither somehow magically turned me into a Muslim or a Jew... Compare those to D&D, which never once asks you to believe or accept any part of it.)
Show
There's a great anecdote (whether apocryphal or not) about (I believe) Lord Baden-Powell, the founder of the Boy Scouts, who was asked by a woman if teaching young children to light fires and hunt, etc., wasn't simply equiping them to become soldiers and killers, and he replied, "Madam you have all the equipment necessary to become a prostitute... Have you become a prostitute?"
I agree Salla
But, the problem is magnified due to its contraversy, like I said.
People dont see "Oh, its just a game"They see "Oh, you imagine yourself as a wizard who ressurects the dead and communes with spirits???"
I understand the concern, and I am very aware of the issue. You either chose to let it define you, or you chose to define it.
Look, you're either going to change people's minds about how they feel about it, or you're not. if people are open-minded, you can change their mind. If they've already formed their opinion based on hearsay, rumor and gossip, then you won't change their mind. Some people are just looking to find fault in others and looking for something to be scandalized over, and they're going to find it no matter what you do.
In a church, well, you probably know who's who already. Just play OP. And find another church to run your game at. If you're that worried about what your congregation thinks of you, find a new one that likes you no matter what.
Remember, Jesus hung out with whores. And most Christians think he's pretty swell.
How do you get away from the relation between the deities and magic and occult IN-GAME, Despite the scripture being against that sort of thing?
Im sure you must have encountered this objection already,so howd you work around it
Mainly its not been an issue for me because my Catholic priest is not an ignorant hate-monger.
When the mother of one of my friends found his D&D books she boxed them up, took them and her son to our priest and said "This is my son's devil worship kit." My priest took one look in the box, gave the box back to my friend, and took my friend's mother aside to explain that its just a game.
That said, there are two fairly good options if you're really worried about occult trappings.
In both option you do away with the multiple deities and have the Christian faith be the source of all divine power.
The first option, if you're looking to make inroads with people who even object to books like Harry Potter is to limit players to classes the martial (no magical powers) and divine (i.e. Christian Miracles) power sources with arcane, primal, and psionic power sources only being available to misguided and evil NPC's.
The second option is refluff the meaning of arcane (the true definition of which is "mysterious or understood only by a few"). Say, for example, that campaign world is actually set hundreds of thousands of years into our future and that civilization has fallen into a new dark age. What the common man in that world sees as "magic," the wizard actually understands that the words and gestures they use really only serve to activate and direct ancient nano-machines left behind by the fallen super-advanced civilization.
All those monsters? Genetic experiments that went awry (possibly what caused the fall of the advanced civilization) or even aliens or beings from other dimensions that the ignorant call "demons."
If you further establish that the "wizards" KNOW these things to be true, you do away with any sort of occult context to their workings. Think Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court." Someone living in the dark ages couldn't even conceive of things like the internet or lasers. Someone equipped with such things and who knew how to use them would seem exactly like a wizard to them.
You could even use the fact that many of the "gods" have statistics and can be killed to pull a "Stargate" and make a campaign out the divine casters (wielding the true faith) joining forces with the wizards/engineers (with their super-science/magic) and courageous fighting men (martial characters) to oppose the forces of these powerful alien beings who have set themselves up as false gods.
And really that's the main reason why D&D even has demons and devils in the first place... so that the players, in the role of heroes, can DEFEAT them.
My wife and I used to own what was known locally as "The Christian Game Store". We are very open about our faith (just check my sig) yet we hosted GURPS, HackMaster, and even D&D games. We also played – and still play – Magic: the Gathering, Pokémon (we still run the WNC Pokémon League and it is laregly populated by Christians), Yu-Gi-Oh!, and lots of other games that ignorant people consider to be evil.
One of our friends doesn't run games with other gods in them. Another only plays characters that are Christians if the world allows it. That's perfectly fine for them and doesn't get in the way of our games. I personally prefer to think of it as what it is: a game; a work of fiction.
We used to teach the middle school class of AWANA (Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed; you think of it as Boy/Girl Scouts run by the church) on Wednesday nights (we do a different program now). Those kids and several other families from our church visited our store frequently and one kid even came to us for deck advice at church.
So I was also in a church leadership position yet it was known that we played a variety of supposedly evil games but it never caused the slightest issue. In fact, as mentioned previously, we proudly wore the title "The Christian Game Store".
Thinking back, in the three years we were open (until I couldn't handle the physical pain anymore) we only ever had one close-minded "D&D is evil" person visit the store. We had posters on the walls for lots of games including Mage Knight, MK: Dungeons, Yu-Gi-Oh! Dungeondice Monsters, HeroClix, Harry Potter, and many more, but she pointed at every poster that contained the word "dungeon" and muttered "That's evil." Once again, this was at the store that eventually became known as "The Christian Game Store". There's just no figuring out some people.
So don't worry about what a few ignorant people think. Instead lead by example and show them there is nothing wrong the hobby (it worked on my brother who used to be part of the "D&D is evil" crowd). If some one in particular is an issue offer to run a short session of something simple like OVA or FURPG. If that fails to convince then you'll just have to wait until the holy spirit does the convincing for you.
But if you still insist on playing D&D by another name, look at the GURPS Dungeon Fantasy series (aks "GURPS D&D"). It has no built-in world so you can make of it whatever you want. Or you could do what some of our friends do and simply leave out anything you find objectionable.
I played a rogue named Namika, who followed the teachings of Kord. She believed in what he taught, she did not spend game time worshipping him openly, but don't be running from her mid fight or you will have a shuriken in your back.
I will say from what little Gurps I have had the honor of working with I have thoroughly enjoyed. I can make anything from a backworld girl who has a bit of a windy temper, to a cybertronic robot who time travels by doing the Time Warp.
I seem to remeber reading about a couple of RPGs which were produced as a 'Christian alternative' to DnD. Off hand I can't remember any of the names but I'm sure google will help. I don't think any of these really flourished and it might be tricky to track some of them down unless you can get them in PDF form.
Same with D&D.
Just because somebody plays a selfish, lying, thieving....thief doesn't mean they are one. D&D just lets them play something that they can't be in the real world: a hero.
Do what you feel is right, or do what you feel someone else thinks is right.
Do you feel like letting your fellow people be led astray from BS put out there by someone else and not form thier own opinions? This is a slippery slope, perhaps you should educate your fellows so they start to think things out for themselves and not beleive whatever is told to them.
Furthermore, playing a game (or not) because of the name is a deception, if you are trying to make people beleive you are not playing a game that has the same core mechanics and christian concerns, you are deceiving those people. Deception is a core sin involved in several of the commandments, and is identical to a lie in my opinion. You would be much better off I supposed by just not playing, but I am sure there is some level of deception in that as well.
I feel like the most responsible and christian related course of action would be to play it boldly. First talk to with the 'ultimate' leader of your church and discuss the points with them to get them to realize its just a game. Then when you play, you can speak to any opponents as well as advise they speak to the other 'leader' (pun intended). This should qualm any combative agression, or at least keep mouths shut.
Of course, this is not REALLY the position of most churches, they would rather someone blindly follow church doctirine rather then think things through themselves, I just hope you do no belong to that type of church.
There hasn't been controversy since the 80's. It's just a game. If you want to eliminate the deities, just do so. Homebrew a setting with a monotheistic society.
Back in the mid 90s, I ran into a serious and unanticipated encounter with an Evangelical Family of one of my players. It's the type of experience I wouldn't wish on any DM. I agree with the Homebrew setting idea.
Just make the Paladin and Clerics the center, drop the Rogues, Warlocks, and Wizards, and have Archers and Warlords as other main protagonists. I'd recommend sticking to humans, and LotR Races like Halflings, Dwarves, and Elves, rather than Dragon Born or Tieflings.
2e got rid of a bunch of problems by calling things Aasimon, Baatezu, and Tannari, rather than Angels, Devils, and Demons, and by stepping away from Giant demon looking Efreeti on the Cover.
While some parts of the world are more liberal with regard to D&D, others will continue to Clamp down, especially in rural places frequented by disaster or religious conflict. That Footloose thing is an excellent example. In some places, even Happy Meals can be banned - so don't think something like this can't happen in your neighborhood. Inquisition wannabes are everywhere.
1.) Grow up and realize that it is a game; not some Satan-funded project to undermine your religion.
At least half the players in my group are Christian, no one has a problem with it. Certainly many things in it are not in line with religious values (of various religions), but it is a FANTASY world.
Fortunately, as has been said, these controversies have died down a lot since the 80's or so.
There hasn't been controversy since the 80's. It's just a game. If you want to eliminate the deities, just do so. Homebrew a setting with a monotheistic society.
Back in the mid 90s, I ran into a serious and unanticipated encounter with an Evangelical Family of one of my players. It's the type of experience I wouldn't wish on any DM. I agree with the Homebrew setting idea.
Just make the Paladin and Clerics the center, drop the Rogues, Warlocks, and Wizards, and have Archers and Warlords as other main protagonists. I'd recommend sticking to humans, and LotR Races like Halflings, Dwarves, and Elves, rather than Dragon Born or Tieflings.
2e got rid of a bunch of problems by calling things Aasimon, Baatezu, and Tannari, rather than Angels, Devils, and Demons, and by stepping away from Giant demon looking Efreeti on the Cover.
While some parts of the world are more liberal with regard to D&D, others will continue to Clamp down, especially in rural places frequented by disaster or religious conflict. That Footloose thing is an excellent example. In some places, even Happy Meals can be banned - so don't think something like this can't happen in your neighborhood. Inquisition wannabes are everywhere.
This cannot happen in my neighborhood, because then it wouldnt be my neighborhood. The fact that people will stay in a situation that so brazenly goes against anything american and christian is besides me. Jesus ate with tax collectors, he did not go collect taxes with them.
(Honest question, No Sarcasm AT ALL)
How do you get away from the relation between the deities and magic and occult IN-GAME, Despite the scripture being against that sort of thing?
How do you "get away from" flims with actors playing evil characters? From books where characters are evil? Do you have this problem if you go to see a production of Hamlet?
(If you have all those problems, and "it's just like TV but less passive consumption" is not a workable argument for you, you may have larger problems. If the objection is not to RPGs, but *only* to D&D and *only* because it's a "satanic" RPG, invite a detractor to sit in for a session and see what it's actually like.)
Im sure you must have encountered this objection already,so howd you work around it
"The Bible is full of parables. Jesus uses them constantly, and explains why he uses them in Matthew 13:10-17. In the mean time, telling stories is harmless - nobody here actually believes in Pelor or Vecna, or in magic, or in demons, or in orcs. They're just stories, like a TV show that you write with your friends and watch in your imagination."
The second option is refluff the meaning of arcane (the true definition of which is "mysterious or understood only by a few"). Say, for example, that campaign world is actually set hundreds of thousands of years into our future and that civilization has fallen into a new dark age. What the common man in that world sees as "magic," the wizard actually understands that the words and gestures they use really only serve to activate and direct ancient nano-machines left behind by the fallen super-advanced civilization.
All those monsters? Genetic experiments that went awry (possibly what caused the fall of the advanced civilization) or even aliens or beings from other dimensions that the ignorant call "demons."
If you further establish that the "wizards" KNOW these things to be true, you do away with any sort of occult context to their workings. Think Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court." Someone living in the dark ages couldn't even conceive of things like the internet or lasers. Someone equipped with such things and who knew how to use them would seem exactly like a wizard to them.
You could even use the fact that many of the "gods" have statistics and can be killed to pull a "Stargate" and make a campaign out the divine casters (wielding the true faith) joining forces with the wizards/engineers (with their super-science/magic) and courageous fighting men (martial characters) to oppose the forces of these powerful alien beings who have set themselves up as false gods.
This sounds like a pretty good campaign. Might have to borrow it.
On topic, do what I do and say to yourself, 'What would Jesus do?' Think about it. Throughout the New Testament, did He EVER enforce His beliefs on anybody? Aside from getting understandably pissed off at trading in a temple, He preached and allowed people to listen or disregard what He said. He hung out with the sinners because, as He said, what is the point the in trying to convert the converted?
Basically, go ahead and do what you want. You know the game is not evil, but trying to deceive people is. Don't try a different game that is DND in all but name, play DND. You're in a position of power and are a respected individual. In my experience of the madness of religion, people often try to decredit people who are lower in the heierachy, yet follow those higher up. You seem open minded, try to encourage your followers to be the same.
The biggest reason why the "evilness" of D&D got out of hand is because of a miniscule amount of "bad apples" that took the game too far and really thought of themselves being the character they created (I think there was even a movie made because of that "bad apple"). What happened? Those few people got the air time and most everybody that had any fundamentalist upbringing called D&D evil and a gateway to Satanism. Maybe there is a group or two like that, but does one or two groups out of thousands of other groups make D&D evil? Absolutely not!
Is D&D addictive like drugs? alcohol? porn? No. Or, at least, not in the way we think. If you look at it this way, anything can be addictive, either physical like drugs, or psychological like porn. Most of the time is a combination of both, physcial & psychological (like pizza IMHO). Heck, even religion can be addictive and look at all the negative press about that.
Bottom line. D&D is just a game. If it is taken too far (like that "bad apple" I mentioned), then it is the person that should be held responsible and not the venue.
Let's use another analogy, the cell phone. Many people have cell phones. Many cell phones can text. Many people drive. You would think it stupid to text and drive, but a few people do it. Does that mean it is the cell phone's fault? Absolutely not. It is the person who's texting fault. However, that's as far as the analogy can go because the cell phone is not labelled "evil" like D&D is. The cell phone is just simply an object that people use. D&D is just simply a game that people play.
BTW, I did create my own game world where there was one god and he was the one that gave out the portfolios to his angels. When some angels started being worshipped instead of god, and those angels did nothing to discourage it (and even actively encouraged it), those angels were thrown down to hell and they became devils and demons. However, god did not take away the portfolios that was granted them. I kept the ratio of devils/demons to angels the same as the Bible, i.e. 1 devil/demon for every 2 angels. It is almost an entirely humanocentric world. Very few other races. The ones that kept themselves most pure, and because of that, they were very rare, are the elven/eladrin race. Those that are mostly indifferent to what's going on are the human race (which includes dwarves & halflings). When the devils were thrown into hell, many humans who worshipped them became orcs, goblins and other evil races. But like everything, there is a "bad apple" in every race. In other words, there can be an evil elf or a good orc.
First off, D&D is just a game. Anyone who cannot separate the concepts relevant to playing a game from reality have much more serious issues to contend with.
Second, I never understood the objection of religious organizations regarding demons and evils. When you looked in the monster manual under the heading for these creatures alignment it CLEARLY stated these being were evil. The main focus of the game was goodly heroic people defeating evil. How is that concidered a bad thing?
here is an example of one of the early controversies surrounding D&D:
Patricia Pulling was an anti-occult campaigner from Richmond, Virginia, and was the founder of Bothered About Dungeons & Dragons (BADD). This one-person advocacy group was dedicated to the elimination of Dungeons & Dragons and other such games. Pulling founded BADD in 1982 after her son Irving committed suicide; she continued her advocacy until her death in 1997. As her son had played Dungeons & Dragons, she filed a wrongful death lawsuit against her son's high school principal, holding him responsible for what she claimed was a Dungeons & Dragons curse placed upon her son shortly before his death.[citation needed] She later filed suit against TSR, the publishers of the game at that time.[1]
The case against TSR was thrown out in 1984[1] and most of her claims were disproved by reporters,[3] especially Michael A. Stackpole, who demonstrated that suicide rates of gamers were lower than non-gamers.[4]
When her lawsuits were dismissed, she founded BADD and began publishing information to promote her belief that D&D encouraged Satanism, ****, suicide and incorporated an entire litany of immoral and illegal practices.[1] BADD effectively ceased to exist after Pulling died of cancer in 1997
I have always maintained that players who manifest mental health issues were destined to manifest mental health issues regardless of whether they ever played D&D or not.
As far as D&D affecting your religious convictions, if you cannot distinguish between a social story telling game where magic, fictional dieties, and monsters exist and a lifetime of religious beliefs you have other issues.
For a rules set, you could use the generic d20 SRD ruleset and homebrew the setting-specific stuff; or maybe hunt down a copy of MERP. There are more than likely other rulesets that I'm blissfully unaware of. Obviously there is plenty of background for the setting readily available, and some pretty decent (if expensive) minis made by Games Workshop.
Assuming that works out for you, at some point it might create a good springboard for helping to explain why D&D isn't anything to be terribly worried about.
When an actor plays a villian, does that mean he's a horrible, evil person?
Tom Berenger
When an actor plays a villian, does that mean he's a horrible, evil person?
Tom Berenger
James Wood (FG Reference)
I'd suggest running a campaign in Middle Earth - Tolkien was a christian, and it seems that the majority of christians are comfortable with his stories.
Or file the serial numbers off Narnia, an explicitly Protestant Christian setting.
The biggest reason why the "evilness" of D&D got out of hand is because of a miniscule amount of "bad apples" that took the game too far and really thought of themselves being the character they created (I think there was even a movie made because of that "bad apple"). What happened? Those few people got the air time and most everybody that had any fundamentalist upbringing called D&D evil and a gateway to Satanism. Maybe there is a group or two like that, but does one or two groups out of thousands of other groups make D&D evil? Absolutely not!
Not even that. It got out of hand because of false assumptions and paranoia. I'm not aware of ANY bad apples like what you described (not to say there aren't bad apples but none that did what they did because of D&D). The movie you reference was based off of a case where people made a false connection between the person's actions and the game based off of their own assumptions and ignorance and there was no evidence to actually back up that conclusion.
Not that it matters. Even if it was true everything else you said still applies. I just felt the need to point that out.
For those of you who actually gave me suggestions instead of commenting on my beliefs, thank you.
Its a weird thing when the OP drops the thread but everyone else keeps it alive. Hm
For the interest of peace, I agree with everyone, but sometimes you have to make some sacrifices before you can change the way things are.
I'd suggest running a campaign in Middle Earth - Tolkien was a christian, and it seems that the majority of christians are comfortable with his stories.
For a rules set, you could use the generic d20 SRD ruleset and homebrew the setting-specific stuff; or maybe hunt down a copy of MERP. There are more than likely other rulesets that I'm blissfully unaware of. Obviously there is plenty of background for the setting readily available, and some pretty decent (if expensive) minis made by Games Workshop.
Assuming that works out for you, at some point it might create a good springboard for helping to explain why D&D isn't anything to be terribly worried about.
Best suggestion.
Thank you very much.
Now, to make a thread on suggestion on "how to make a LOTR d20"
Due to alot of the contraversy surrounding this game, it makes it hard to play a game like this.
Not only the contraversy but alot of the iffy subjects including deities.
I was wondering if there was something equally indepth or possibly another variation of D&D such as the "Star Wars: Saga Edition Rpg"
The only problem with SW is the lack of a MonsterManual or depth within classes or Creatures.
I dont want this to turn into a religious debate so please dont make it one :D
I totally understand your position, MountainDrowner. I used to game with a few very good and very Christian friends of mine. We loved D&D and we didn't include anything iffy. There was no killing, no clerics, no deities, and so on. We had lots of fun. However, unfortunately D&D still had a bad rap from long, long, long ago and the parents of my friends cut them out of the game.
I could understand and respect their decision.
Later I went on to create my own RPG game "Challenger" which is pretty much like D&D but has taken out a lot of the elements Christians tended to object too (but perhaps not all). There are no deities mentioned in the rules, no clerics, and all characters can deal 'knock-out' damage for the most part and not be too severely penalized if that's your idea of a good game.
You can get a free copy of the game on the internet in practically all formats. I also noticed the idea of the LOTR d20 game you picked. That's a fine idea. I love Tolkein and the d20 system is great. I wish you luck in continuing your gaming and keeping everyone happy.
It's really too bad the bad rap is sticking with D&D for so long when it's such a good game. All we can do as gamers is continue to play in a responsible and clean manner and hope that the air clears about the subject. The more good people who play RPGs, the better the perceived reputation should be.
I hope some of this helps,
--David
Narnia and Middle Earth are works of two Christian writters. My personal opinion I can enjoy a work about a fantasy world where nature laws can be very differents (dragons, pegasus, hypogriffon, monster-plants, magic beasts..). It isn´t occultism.
Personally I try boicott all fiction where religious people are naive (who don´t undertand the cruel reality), radical fanatics or hypocritical. I don´t spend my money to be offended by subtext. I don´t need "sermons" about intolerance and fanatism. I don´t need a stupid who talks me about Crusades when today I have readen a news about a doom againts a Christians in Nigeria (by Boko Haram, I´m afraid).
The key is occultism. A good Christian must avoid it what promotes interest about "dark arts" (witchcraft, sorcery, wica, new age, neopaganism..).
Narnia and Middle Earth are works of two Christian writters. My personal opinion I can enjoy a work about a fantasy world where nature laws can be very differents (dragons, pegasus, hypogriffon, monster-plants, magic beasts..). It isn´t occultism.
Personally I try boicott all fiction where religious people are naive (who don´t undertand the cruel reality), radical fanatics or hypocritical. I don´t spend my money to be offended by subtext. I don´t need "sermons" about intolerance and fanatism. I don´t need a stupid who talks me about Crusades when today I have readen a news about a doom againts a Christians in Nigeria (by Boko Haram, I´m afraid
Given your username, your phrasing, and your signature, I suspect English is not your first language. Is that correct?
Unfortunately, asking you to support even one of your assertions is a violation of the TOS of wizards.com. Your assertions may or may not, themselves, be violations of the TOS.
That being said, I think the naivete of the protagonist in Narnia was part of the point. They are naive. They're simple. They're easily fooled and easily led - and, the fact that they can be led astray is not only redeemable, the fact that they ARE led astray and then return to grace when they learn the truth is part of the point. As Edmund points out in A Horse And His Boy, "even a traitor can mend. I have known one who did."
ALL that being said: This thread was dead. Thread necromancy is discouraged, because necromancy is an evil art practiced only by occult sorcerers.
What do you say about violation of TOS (term os Service) of Wizards.com?