(Miniatures-centric, combat heavy, battlemap/tiles/grid dependent)
What RPGs do you 4E fans play when you are not playing 4E?
Howdy guys!
Very quickly some background on my preferences, Im more of a classic D&D player than a modern one. I prefer Basic D&D (Moldvay,Cook,Rules Cyclopedia) with a heaping of AD&D 1E monsters/modules, topped with a smattering of 2E settings. I have always run a miniatures-centric, combat heavy D&D, since the beginning, so 4E was easy to get into. Strangely, 3E never appealed to me. So although Id like to say "Im with D&D all editions", sadly, my honest dislike of 3e prevents me from claiming so.
But, Id really like to branch out and try new rpgs from different companies. And this is the opportune time to do so, while WOTC has a lull in their normal deluge of releases.
Games I have bought a few titles of and either sold off or put in the closet:
1 Savage Worlds, Necessary Evil, Solomon Kane, Deadlands, etc..
2 Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3rd Edition
3 Pathfinder
4 Gurps
Yeah, I initially liked Savage Worlds and its ilk. Its simplicity resonated with my fondness of Basic D&D, but ultimately it left me feeling empty. Warhammer 3rd edition is a mess, I dont want to even talk about it. Pathfinder... given my dislike of 3E, I dont know why I even tried getting into this. I think I bought the core from the combination of hype and the fact that Im a sucker for massive page count hardcover books. I see that theres alot of chatter about PF, but my dislike of it and the creation of this thread are coincidental. GURPS basic set, was a gift from a deranged friend, Im still not sure if this gift was an insult or joke, or maybe it was a sincere gift... I dont know. Sorry but I dislike Steve Jackson games, unless its Ogre or Car Wars.
Games that I DO like, and sit proudly on my shelf under my 4E/1E/2E/Classic D&D shrine
1 Gamma World and expansions (the latest WOTC one)
2 Hackmaster
3 Various OSR (Old School Renaissance): Lamentations of the Flame, Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC, Swords & Wizardry, etc...
4 Warhammer 40k RPGs: Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Death Watch (and Black Crusade is coming!)
5 Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 1st Edition
6 Call Of Cthulhu
7 Mouse Guard, and also Grimm (for when I have little kids around to rpg with)
Gamma World is a no brainer, since its 4E powered. Hackmaster products just plug and play into my classic d&d games. Naturally I collect anything from the new "old school", most importantly, its the modules from these simulators/emulators that Im really after.
Fantasy Flight RPGs are THE bomb! I run these games much like 4E, combat encounters are awesome with battlemaps from various sci-fi board games (space hulk, doom, mutant chronicles) and also from pdf map makers from rpgnow (Lord ZseZse's Battlemaps are my favorite map makers, I also use SkeletonKey's E-Adventure maps and Savage Mojo's Gamescape Story Maps)
The combats are fast, deadly and cinematic. Sure PCs die like flies, but when they die, its memorable, thanks to the critical hit charts.
In conclusion, besides 4E and the 40k RPGs, what combat-centric rpgs am I missing out on? If any?
Although, I think I can still happily live the rest of my natural life with the above rpgs. But it doesnt hurt to keep looking out for more.
Thanks,
Adoramus
As to your main question, I don't think any other games do what 4e does best, as well as 4e does it. Especially when we're talking about tactical combat and the like. So... sad to say, I don't have any suggestions there. When I'm playing other RPGs, it's generally games that do completely different stuff from 4e - and that includes 1e, Call of Cthulhu, and so on.
I'd recommend WFRP 2e in general, but if you like and are happy with WFRP 1e, it might not be a valuable switch for you.
-O
Historically, when I get sick of D&D I play Vampire for a while, and then I go back.
Hey there! As a fellow fan of both 4e and 1e, it seems like you already own or have tried most of what I would have suggested.
As to your main question, I don't think any other games do what 4e does best, as well as 4e does it. Especially when we're talking about tactical combat and the like. So... sad to say, I don't have any suggestions there. When I'm playing other RPGs, it's generally games that do completely different stuff from 4e - and that includes 1e, Call of Cthulhu, and so on.
I'd recommend WFRP 2e in general, but if you like and are happy with WFRP 1e, it might not be a valuable switch for you.
-O
Yeah, this post is mostly hopeful wishing to find something similiar to 4e. Just because I love the system so much.
But I do play rpgs that are different from 4e as well to experience something different.
I forgot to list my Cthulhu rpgs.
Besides Call of Cthulhu, I have Trail Of Cthulhu (Gumshoe system), Realms Of Cthulhu (Savage Worlds), and most importantly I just bought Realms of Crawling Chaos (Labyrinth Lord). Its great for adding cthulhu monsters to classic d&d, in addition to/in replacement of Deities and Demigods 1st print.
I havent bought into WFRP 2e just yet, thats alot of books to buy into. I have heard 2e is more streamlined, but the fluff is changed to the newer Fantasy Battle fluff, which Im not really too concerned about.
For fast play, a grand cinematic action adventure feel, i recommend WEG's d6 Star Wars. It won't have the tactical complexity of 4th ed though.
For tactical play, i'd recommend Combining Mechwarrior for the story setup with actual Battletech.
Champions (and the HERO system in general) allows for interesting tactical play, but the point buy character build system is a lot more easily broken and or abused than 4th ed is.
Not much else to recommend. Have you tried H.E.R.O.? It's a supers game but there is a Fantasy HERO component. Like CoC, it's not miniatures heavy, but that's easy to add in. Sounds like you might like Battletech too.
I havent tried HERO, or the fantasy supplement yet. Doesnt Mutants and Masterminds have a fantasy supplement as well?
I forgot about the superhero genre and using miniatures. I have a ton of heroclix... duhh.
Battletech, another one I forgot I have figures for, thanks to the Mechwarrior clix game. Sometimes the obvious is easy to overlook. I know absolutely nothing about the new battletech though, looks like FASA is gone and Ive never heard of Catalyst Games.
Ill have to start reading some reviews about supers rpgs and battletech.
But thanks dood! mecha and superheroes are two rpg genres that might really go well with miniature heavy rpgs.
I havent bought into WFRP 2e just yet, thats alot of books to buy into. I have heard 2e is more streamlined, but the fluff is changed to the newer Fantasy Battle fluff, which Im not really too concerned about.
Yeah, I can't give an exact treatise on the differences, but I can vouch for it, as a system. It fixed the Naked Dwarf problem, but it overvalues armor a bit much.
And yeah, there's a ton of books. Fortunately, the main rulebook is pretty well self-contained. Otherwise...
Bestiary: Absolutely Essential. You pretty much need this.
Realms of Sorcery, Tome of Salvation, Tome of Corruption: All very helpful, especially with budding priests or wizards. Tome of Corruption is nearly necessary if you're using a lot of chaos-themed stuff.
Old World Armory: While I've heard great things about this, it's a level of detail I'm not interested in.
Everything Else: Largely fluff, and getting more and more niche towards the end of the line. (I doubt many people were clamoring for a Kislev book, for example, but I could be wrong!) Only strictly helpful if you're running a game there. As such, Sigmar's Heirs is the most useful of the lot.
-O
Not much else to recommend. Have you tried H.E.R.O.? It's a supers game but there is a Fantasy HERO component. Like CoC, it's not miniatures heavy, but that's easy to add in. Sounds like you might like Battletech too.
I havent tried HERO, or the fantasy supplement yet.
HERO is great and has some underlying capabilities that are very 4e like.
Its strength and weakness is that it is intended to leave a lot of customization in the hands of the GM and/or players.
Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic.
I own a nice stack of 2E books, OSR clones, a library of MERP and Rolemaster books I haven't touched in ages, and a smattering of White Wolf books. Historically, when I get sick of D&D I play Vampire for a while, and then I go back.
I'm in a really fun game of Vampire at the moment. And an online game of Mage. And I enjoyed Werewolf although the guy who runs the others can't stand it.
And the campaign setting, Glorantha, is such a rich world! I'd have to say it rivals the Forgotten Realms in terms of sheer detail! I strongly urge you to at least try RQ if you're up for something interesting.
I think that Iron Heroes may be something that both 4e and 3e players can dig.
Doesn't Iron Heroes not allow spellcasting PCs? Or am I thinking something else?
Doesn't Iron Heroes not allow spellcasting PCs? Or am I thinking something else?
Initially, it didn't have any spellcasters, but eventually got its own spellcasting class (which, IIRC, people didn't like).
However, the Iron Heroes mechanic of gaining and spending tokens to do cool stuff is a lot more of a variant on 3.5 than Pathfinder is. Truth be told, I would call Iron Heroes 3.75, and Pathfinder 3.52.
Oh, but I'm sure that casters could have been restructured to use the token system too, and be actually balanced.
Hmmmm....some sort of channeling mechanic....?
As with D&D, there are multiple editions, and, they were mostly pretty similar. The most significant ones were the 4th, which made it into a genuine 'universal' system, when before it was a set of closely related games that shared a core system; and the 6th, which radically changed-up the game without managing to fix any of the nagging little things that were still wrong with it...
The best points of entry for Hero System are the Hero System Rulebook for 4th ed or the 'Hero Sidekick' for 5th or 5th 'revised.' 3rd and earlier eds were still rough and prone to brokeness; 6th seems different for the sake of difference rather than improvement, and failed to catch my interest.
Another game that's a bit effects-based is Mage the Ascension, which is very strange, and not at all a fantasy game - it's Storyteller, old-World-of-Darkness stuff. In the case of Mage, all the versions of it are mechanically a little sketchy, but pretty cool. The earlier ones are more interesting, IMHO. Mage the Awakening is completely different, blah by comparison. But, again, if you were intrigued by the 're-skinning' aspect of 4e, you might like it. Same goes to a lesser extent for Ars Magicka.