Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 cybertrucker Jul 29, 2011 18:24:30	As you might have guessed with the screen name, I am a truck driver. I have also been an Avid gamer (RPGs, Miniture Wargames, MMOs) since the early 80s. I played my first game of Basic (real red box) DnD which I got my sister for her birthday when I was 8 years old. I was hooked, she wasnt. When 4th Edition came out, I hadnt played a DnD game in about 2 years. Now I will admit. I have always loved DnD. It was always a great solid game to go back to. Shadowrun was however probably my favorite RPG especially when it hit 4th edition, I absolutely loved it.  I also was just burned out on the power creep that was happening in 3.X  Not to mention after getting into trucking. It was hard to do any real roleplaying. Unless I was the one running the game, due to the fact I was gone alot. I would always get left behind in levels and story if I tried to play in someone elses game. I did run a game of Shadowrun 4E for about 2 years though. That was when I worked for a company where i was home almost every weekend. Being on the road, most my gaming came from being on the computer. I was playing Everquest 1 on a wireless modem before there was broadband wireless, no 3 or 4G, Heck you were lucky if you could find a data connection in several big cities. Just to note I have been trucking now for 9 years. Played MMOs since EQ1 beta. But I digress. When I heard that 4th Edition for DnD had come out. I asked alot of questions about it. How had it changed. A few of my friends back home really liked it. Several said it played more like board game hack and slash only and didnt like it. It didnt really matter all that much. I had ended up buying my own truck, and was away 2 to 4 weeks at a time. My days of Roleplaying were pretty much over, as the time I did spend at home was being spent with my lady and my lil girl. Keeping up with an ongoing group was pretty much impossible too. Thank god for Wargaming and being able to get a couple of pick up games in now and then. Last year though. I had  a friend over and he wanted for me to try out 4th edition. Our old gaming group had returned to 3.X as they decided they didnt care for 4th that much, but he loved it. Anyway I gave it a go and ended up loving it myself, it was like a breath of fresh air for DnD..Something new and different. I had so much fun in fact, that I started looking for a way for me to start gaming again, and turned to Tabletop Emulator software. Started up a 4th edition game based in Norrath (Everquest) as we learned the software. Ended that one later down the road, as it was a rocky ride with a steep learning curve with the software. However this last February I started a new game based off Warmachine/Iron Kingdoms, using 4th edition. Been running it almost every weekend (except weekends I am home) and the group has been having a blast.  All this being said. I have noticed like others, the lack of Product that is coming out for DnD. I have been dissipointed with the whole Essentials farce, and as someone who travels, and who also games. I get to go to ALOT of game stores and talk to gamestore owners and gamers. Now I will admit. Most my gamestore time is dedicated to Warmachine/Hordes which is a table top wargame, and I travel with my armies. However I still talk about games in general. This brings me to my conclusion. I am seeing less and less people playing DnD. Pathfinder in numerous stores hold much more shelf space. Store Calandars have multiple nights of MtG or Wargame nights. On roleplaying nights alot of stores have it listed what games are being played. I am seeing more Pathfinder than I am DnD, and from talking to alot of people I keep hearing the same thing all across this great big country of mine (GOD BLESS AMERICA). More and more people are moving away from Dungeons and Dragons. Dont get me wrong, I still talk to alot  people that are playing, and see people playing. In the last year I have made repeat showing at some stores, and there is a trend that is setting that I am seeing. People are moving away from Dungeons and Dragons. Take it as you will. I realize this post might make some people upset. I might even get flamed. I realize that all games have rabbid fanboys that no matter what, can not accept the fact that just maybe, the game they love so much is being steered in the wrong direction. From my perspective. I kinda feel its like I am looking in the Rearview and seeing something starting to fade away. Kinda sad really.
#2 blackknight1239 Jul 29, 2011 18:35:42	Anecdotal statements are far too anecdotal to really mean anything. You have been seeing less D&D 4e, I have never met a Pathfinder player in person. It's one and the same.
#3 devp Jul 29, 2011 18:38:11	(One thing I like about my post: my gf's brother is a long-distance truck driver who packs his Xbox on the road, and who I know to have at least played RIFTS back in high school. So I'm glad to consider that he may bump into some kindred spirits out there.) From what you've seen, is it mainly D&D -> Pathfinder, or does it splinter further from there?
#4 cybertrucker Jul 29, 2011 18:51:53	I am seeing people playing other games all around. Warhammer Fantasy Rolplay seems popular, as does some of the 40k RPG games. But Where Dungeons and Dragons has always been the dominant RPG in MULTIPLE areas, of the RPG community.. It seems completely fractured now. I stated Pathfinder mainly due to the fact its what I am hearing about in most gamestores.
#5 salla Jul 29, 2011 18:53:46	Anecdotal statements are far too anecdotal to really mean anything. You have been seeing less D&D 4e, I have never met a Pathfinder player in person. It's one and the same. Ditto.
#6 thecasualoblivion Jul 29, 2011 19:51:42	Its all 4E around here. The last local convention I attended had 18 4E LFR tables and 3 Pathfinder tables.
#7 GamingGorman Jul 29, 2011 20:39:28	I've never met any non DND RPG players.
#8 Scottevil912 Jul 29, 2011 20:46:15	In before thread move (or lock)
#9 The_Warren Jul 29, 2011 21:04:46	Cool thread.
#10 Tony_Vargas Jul 30, 2011 1:02:09	I am seeing people playing other games all around. Warhammer Fantasy Rolplay seems popular, as does some of the 40k RPG games. But Where Dungeons and Dragons has always been the dominant RPG in MULTIPLE areas, of the RPG community.. It seems completely fractured now. I stated Pathfinder mainly due to the fact its what I am hearing about in most gamestores. D&D had serious dominance of the hobby in the 70s (with little competition), first half of the 80s (bouyed by hordes of 14-year-old-boys - I was one of 'em), and, for most of the tenure of 3e.  From the mid 80s through to Y2K, though, D&D was not in a leadership position, at all.  It still had a lot of name recognition, and a lot of people continuing to play it who started in the 70s and early 80s, but other games and other companies were the ones that were innovating and getting played a lot more.  WWGS's Storyteller was probably the stand out in a lot of areas.   We are in another period in which D&D has lost (not is losing, has lost) it's leadership status. Tons of people still play it, but they play different versions of it, and disagree violently on their merits.  There are still grognards out there paying AD&D (1e or 2) or using the Rules Cyclopedia, or even Arduin Grimoire.  There are plenty of 3.5 hold-outs continuing to play it, or who jumped to Pathfinder, which is just an OGL clone of 3.5, anyway.  Pathfinder doesn't really represent people leaving D&D, just playing an off-brand version of it (like Arduin/Judges Guild back in the day).  So, while D&D has lost leadership in the hobby, it's still dominant - that dominance is just fragmented among older versions, 3.5/Pathfinder, 4e and, now Essentials.   While those who didn't switch to AD&D, or 2e, or 3e probably held out primarily due to familiarity/fear of change/etc, the current fragmentation is more pronounced, and there's more behind it.   More folks clung to 3.5, for instance, because Paizo was able to publish a close aproximation of it under the OGL.  Were it not for the OGL, the 3.5 -> 4e transition would have been much like prior ones, with some hold-outs never changing, but most of the emphasis of the fan base moving to the currently-supported (and, generally, better) product.  The 4e -> Essentials transition was rocky for a completely different, and unique, reason.   Judged objectively, every ed of D&D through 4e was an improvement over the one before.  Some may have been small improvements, or made sacrifices in one area to improve in another, but the game has evolved and become - often slowly and grudgingly - more modern, sophisticated, balanced & playable over time.   4e -> Essentials represents the first time the game has actually faltered, gone 'backwards' and become arguably worse.  That percieved drop in quality or loss of direction has resulted in another unusual rift in the community.  It's like the 3.5/4e split, in that it's not a rift likely to heal, but it's also different from it, in that there isn't a handy 4.0 'clone' to migrate to (since WotC held the 4e IP a lot closer to its vest).   Thus, the 4e holdouts aren't going to be able to circle the wagons the way the 3.5 holdouts did with Pathfinder.  Eventually, they'll give in and grudgingly accept an inferior 'state of the art' represented by Essentials and later products, or migrate to completely different games (and there aren't a lot of good candidates out there at the moment, so some may just lapse from the hobby entirely, too).
#11 thecasualoblivion Jul 30, 2011 1:05:55	While D&D wasn't in a leadership position from the mid-80s to 2000, it was still #1. The rest of the hobby tried to distinguish itself from D&D and do what D&D didn't do, as opposed to the 3E era when D&D tried to be everything and everything else tried to be D&D. I prefer it when D&D doesn't lead the hobby, actually.
#12 Nyarlathotep Jul 30, 2011 3:16:54	You know, I was juuuuuuuuust saying to myself this morning "You know what this forum needs, Nyarlathotep?" (I always refer to myself by my screen name and in the third person when thinking, btw) "This forum needs another 'Pathfinder is more popular so give up D&D, you losers!' thread" And by golly, my wish came true.  Huzzah!
#13 Nyarlathotep Jul 30, 2011 3:17:40	Anecdotal statements are far too anecdotal to really mean anything. You have been seeing less D&D 4e, I have never met a Pathfinder player in person. It's one and the same. Ditto. Ditto ditto.
#14 Seeker95 Jul 30, 2011 6:54:54	I loved the OP, until the last paragraph. Now I feel like a "little sister" at a frat party.
#15 Arithezoo Jul 30, 2011 7:17:19	I loved the OP, until the last paragraph. Now I feel like a "little sister" at a frat party. That paragraph is simply the standard finishing clause that all posts of this sort are required (by internet law) to have.  In layman's terms, it states that anyone who disagrees with the poster is, in common parlance, a loon.
#16 AbdulAlhazred Jul 30, 2011 8:46:52	Jeeze, all the guy did was report his observations. Of course it makes sense to provide some validation for those observations. "Here's what I saw. Here's why I think it is significant." Nothing wrong with that. I look at it this way. It is kind of nice if the game you play often is popular, its easier to find people to play with and more stuff is likely to be published for it. However, I'm far more interested in just playing than worrying about whether or not the rest of the world is into what I'm into. If they all want to play PF or SW or WHFRP that's OK. As long as I can get my game on with what I like to play, I'm cool with that.
#17 wrecan Jul 30, 2011 10:19:21	Psst... at the top of your screen is "HOME".  Click on it.  Then on the left side of the screen you ll see a button that says "Blog".  Then you can click on "Add Blog Post".  That's where you post long screeds that don't ask people to respond.  (You can see a bunch of sable blogs in my own blog series -- unearthed wrecana -- on the link in my sig.)  You're welcome.
#18 ORC_Wyvern Jul 30, 2011 10:41:09	Hi. I have moved this thread to the appropriate forum. Please continue your discussion in a polite, friendly, and respectful manner. Thanks, Wyvern