Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rnewman2 Dec 12, 2008 9:56:08	(This is not meant to make anyone angry...I felt like ranting, in case anyone had similar thoughts.) Lately, I can't tell whether I love or loathe White Wolf's games. On one hand, the world of darkness and Exalted lines have interesting premises. They have so much room in-game to do stuff...the sheer amount of freedom in what a character can do is incredible, and I like that. There are secret societies of supernatural critters, spooky occurrences and settings that are easy to get immersed in, and lots of cliche-defying/fresh new spins on classic legends. On the other hand...there's all the bad stuff. First, the very idea of a morality stat. I find it obnoxious, limiting in a bad way, and chauvinistic--especially when these are supposed to be horror games, where half the time you're playing monsters. What, now I'm not allowed to play a game for catharsis? And if I want to, there's something wrong with me? Have these people ever heard of the video game Grand Theft Auto? That was fun. Being punished for playing a character a certain way is not. At least in DnD, playing a demented bad guy is just one of several options...but the point is, it's an option. Second, the !#$!#!$#@ combat system. So it's realistic. Apparently. This doesn't make it entertaining. I know, the World of Darkness is supposed to be Daaaark. But seriously, a crappy insta-kill no chance for the PCs to have fun kicking butt kind of combat system does not equal "darkness." Sometimes I think the designers made it that way intentionally, to push some kind of agenda. "Imaginary violence is bad, children! It'll automatically turn you into an axe murderer IRL if you shoot a pretend antagonist down with a pretend machine gun!" Third, the level of elitism among many White Wolf fans. Many (but not all) of them act like their games are The Way and Truth, and everything else is trivial. Some posts I've made on the white wolf forums, I've felt like saying, "excuse me for so much as criticizing something about your precious games. Yeesh." Better yet, excuse me for finding more deep human truth in a hack n' slash encounter than in some Godfather-meets-Citizen-Kane story arc. But for all the not-so-cool stuff, there's so much that is very, very cool. I'm conflicted. Completely conflicted.
#2 cherubaddon Dec 21, 2008 4:54:13	I'm with you in loving the game. To your points: 1. and 2.) If it doesn't fit your campaign, drop it. Seriously. We've done it in one campaign that was less dark and more GTA/Hitman-style, and the game works fine without it. The point is, these kind of games are not the ones WoD was created for. Rather, it was made for games where you are a completely normal person... and everyone else is so tough they can quick your ass even without weapons in under half a second. That is what makes the game "dark". If combat was previsible and statistical - as in D&D - the game would be more of a tactical challenge and less dangerous. Sure, this means that the game - when played as meant - is very dependent on Storyteller fiat. But that is OK, because it is required to keep up the tension of ignorance, uncertainty and dread that makes this game "dark". 3.) Don't know, because I've never posted on their forums. Either way, it's hardly the game's fault. Sure, I have my own issues with the game (like how they butchered the wonderful V:tM flavour for the new edition), but the premises you named I found pretty well executed. -Cherubaddon
#3 lobotaru Dec 21, 2008 8:27:00	I haven't had the chance to play in any of White Wolf's games, but technically, if things can kill you that easily, couldn't you just set up tactical situations where you could kill the enemy just as easily? From what I hear, a bullet through the head against most vampires and ghoulies in the setting is still 99% fatal, so leading them into ambushes, burning them inside their buildings, and hitting them with molotov cocktails will still pretty much annihilate them. I could be wrong of course, since I've never actually played the game.
#4 honda305 Dec 22, 2008 16:56:07	I collect those books and have most of the Vampire books, all of the Orpheus books, some of the Werewolf and Mage line and a lot of the books from the old Mage (Ascension) line. I like them because the writing is generally good and I get lots of fluff ideas from them. I have the new Hunter Vigil books and that is pretty ok. Again, I like the art and fiction writing that is in the fronts of the books... I have played Mage the Ascension and Vampire the Requiem and a 1 shot of Werewolf and ran a 1 shot of Hunter. Generally, I find that WW lends itself to lots of non-combat roleplay/investigation stuff and for that, I think it is AOK. Just my 0.02 Tim