Need some Feedback (Future Campaign Setting) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 slasher2587 Apr 30, 2009 14:45:57	I am working on a custom futuristic campaign setting that revolves around the 4e DnD rules. This is the first class from that campaign, the Soldier. The Soldier plays the role of a Defender, and is supposed to be very tough and resilient. I want the Soldier to be able to be an effective defender, but also be able to deal decent damage if specialized that way. I wanted to post the class here to get some other perspectives on the class, and to make sure the class is able to effectively play either role. Without getting into a lot of detail, - All talents (or DnD powers) are encounter based. But you only regain 1 talent and 1 utility per short rest (2 at 2nd tier, 3 at 3rd tier), and you regain all talents and utilities after an extended rest. - Fiber Armor = Cloth armor, Combat Armor = Leather/Hide armor, Mesh Armor = Scale/Chainmail armor, Carapace Armor = Plate armor - Weapons and talents do slightly less damage than DnD (to reduce the amount of die rolling), but enemies and players have fewer hit points. Base Pistol (+1 attack prof.) does 1d8 damage, Combat Sword (longsword, +2 attack prof) does 1d8 damage, Submachine gun (+0 attack prof, all ranged basic attacks target burst 1 centered on target, no Dexterity bonus to damage, vs. Reflex, half damage on miss) does 2d4 damage. - There are no healing surges. Second Wind value is same as healing surge value. - Aura x = close blast x. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SOLDIER Hit Points at 1st Level: 2d4 + Constitution score. Hit Points per Level Gained: 2 + Constitution modifier (minimum of 0). Trained Skills: Endurance (Con). From the class skills list below, choose 2 + your Intelligence modifier (minimum of 0) more trained skills at 1st level. Athletics (Str), Demolitions (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Mechanics (Int), Medical (Wis), Survival (Wis), Tactics (Int), and Technology (Int). Bonus to Defense: +2 Fortitude. Armor Proficiencies: Fiber, Combat, Mesh. Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged. CLASS FEATURES All of the following are class features of the Soldier. Soldier’s Resolve While you are not wearing heavy armor, you can use your Constitution modifier in place of your Dexterity or Intelligence modifier to determine your Armor defense. In addition, when you use your second wind, you gain an additional bonus to Armor equal to your Constitution modifier. The bonus lasts until the end of your next turn. Soldier’s Challenge Every time you attack an enemy, whether the attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that target or targets. The mark lasts until the end of your next turn. A target can be subject to only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark that was already in place. This mark can never be superseded. In addition, whenever a marked enemy that is adjacent to you shifts or makes an attack that does not include you, you can make an opportunity attack against that enemy. An enemy struck by your opportunity attacks stops moving, if a move provoked the attack. If it still has actions remaining, it can use them to resume moving. Adrenaline Each time an enemy hits you with a melee or ranged attack, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier (after the attack is resolved). These temporary hit points do not stack with each other, but stack with temporary hit points from other sources. In addition, you gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls whenever you have temporary hit points.
#2 backstabbist May 02, 2009 0:31:36	Define "Future" One mark of d20Modern progress levels was the potency increase of handheld hurt hurlers... Crossbow 1d10 --> Rifle 2d10 --> LaseRifle 3d8 --> PlasRifle 3d10 --> GravRifle 3d12 so just what do you mean "Future" Soldier? As for armor, what progress level of armor for your "future"? If Oldschool Medium Armor = ~ as good a bear will Modern Med Armor be better than a bear? Will Advanced Med Armor be better than that? Will Techmazing Med Armor be even better than THAT? Or will medium armor always be ~ as good as a bear.... no matter how much manufacturing and materials advance When you say 'future', will things be New & Improved or just New
#3 slasher2587 May 03, 2009 18:04:13	I apologize for being vague. The majority of the firearms presented in my game are similar to the Aliens series of weapons, caseless ammo clips that are triggered by an electric pulse to the rear of the bullet, instead of a hammer. The most technologically advanced firearms will be weapons that fire plasma-covered rounds (like thermite rounds). If I implement full plasma weapons or lasers, they will be very rare to come by. Pistol - 1d8 a crossbow would do 1d4 or maybe 1d6, keeping all advanced materials relative. The base armor will be a form of advanced kevlar. Fiber armor (+0 Armor for the most basic) consists of suits, jackets, etc. Enhanced Fiber armor will only give up to maybe a +4 for the most expensive versions. Fiber is light armor, so you add your Dex or Int to Armor. Combat armor (+2 for a ballistic vest, +3 for a vest, helmet, and reinforced-padding combo). Combat armor is also light. Mesh armor uses a combination of overlapping metallic and/or polymer scales or discs (+6 Armor for the least expensive). Heavy armor (so no ability modifiers). Carapace armor uses clam-shell style plating, that completely covers the wearer from head to toe (+8 for the least expensive). Heavy Armor. Going for New and Improved.
#4 AbdulAlhazred May 11, 2009 10:18:10	I had an extensive discussion with some other people on another forum where we considered what sort of rules modifications would be required and what the best way to go about doing a futuristic game using 4e as a base. Basically we just considered "how would you play in the Traveler universe using 4e rules?" since Traveler was a pretty generic futuristic sci-fi system. If you can produce results reasonably similar to Traveler then you can probably emulate most of the other similar types of worlds. The real problem is that 4e combat is pretty well designed around melee. It just will not translate well at all into an environment where 99.9% of all combat is ranged and at least some of it is likely to be quite long ranged at that. Making a "sticky defender" is just irrelevant under those conditions. Your opponents will almost always be raining hot lead (or plasma) on the party. All the fancy rules on forced movement, flanking, etc and powers related to that kind of thing are just going to be basically worthless. At best they will be a LOT less important than they are in 4e where ranged weapons are mostly problematic and at best only a few specific classes can really use them effectively. Hit points really don't make much sense in such an environment either. You can fluff hit points as fatigue, morale, minor wounds, etc in a sword battle. It is impossible to do that credibly in a shoot out. Either the bullet hits and puts a hole in you or it doesn't. It won't be too preposterous at level 1 where a character taking 2d10 is not going to keep standing for very long, but at higher levels things get laughable. You have PCs with 150 hit points who can just stand around and take 15 rifle slugs to the chest! 4e might work OK for something like a sci-fantasy type setting ala Gamma World, but it isn't going to work well at all IMHO for a fairly realistic sort of "hard" sci-fi setting.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

slasher2587

Apr 30, 2009 14:45:57

I am working on a custom futuristic campaign setting that revolves around the 4e DnD rules.

This is the first class from that campaign, the Soldier. The Soldier plays the role of a Defender, and is supposed to be very tough and resilient. I want the Soldier to be able to be an effective defender, but also be able to deal decent damage if specialized that way. I wanted to post the class here to get some other perspectives on the class, and to make sure the class is able to effectively play either role.

Without getting into a lot of detail,

- All talents (or DnD powers) are encounter based. But you only regain 1 talent and 1 utility per short rest (2 at 2nd tier, 3 at 3rd tier), and you regain all talents and utilities after an extended rest.

- Fiber Armor = Cloth armor, Combat Armor = Leather/Hide armor, Mesh Armor = Scale/Chainmail armor, Carapace Armor = Plate armor

- Weapons and talents do slightly less damage than DnD (to reduce the amount of die rolling), but enemies and players have fewer hit points. Base Pistol (+1 attack prof.) does 1d8 damage, Combat Sword (longsword, +2 attack prof) does 1d8 damage, Submachine gun (+0 attack prof, all ranged basic attacks target burst 1 centered on target, no Dexterity bonus to damage, vs. Reflex, half damage on miss) does 2d4 damage.

- There are no healing surges. Second Wind value is same as healing surge value.

- Aura x = close blast x.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

SOLDIER
Hit Points at 1st Level: 2d4 + Constitution score.
Hit Points per Level Gained: 2 + Constitution modifier (minimum of 0).

Trained Skills: Endurance (Con). From the class skills list below, choose 2 + your Intelligence modifier (minimum of 0) more trained skills at 1st level.
Athletics (Str), Demolitions (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Mechanics (Int), Medical (Wis), Survival (Wis), Tactics (Int), and Technology (Int).

Bonus to Defense: +2 Fortitude.

Armor Proficiencies: Fiber, Combat, Mesh.
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged.

CLASS FEATURES
All of the following are class features of the Soldier.

Soldier’s Resolve
While you are not wearing heavy armor, you can use your Constitution modifier in place of your Dexterity or Intelligence modifier to determine your Armor defense.
In addition, when you use your second wind, you gain an additional bonus to Armor equal to your Constitution modifier. The bonus lasts until the end of your next turn.

Soldier’s Challenge
Every time you attack an enemy, whether the attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that target or targets. The mark lasts until the end of your next turn. A target can be subject to only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark that was already in place. This mark can never be superseded.
In addition, whenever a marked enemy that is adjacent to you shifts or makes an attack that does not include you, you can make an opportunity attack against that enemy. An enemy struck by your opportunity attacks stops moving, if a move provoked the attack. If it still has actions remaining, it can use them to resume moving.

Adrenaline
Each time an enemy hits you with a melee or ranged attack, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier (after the attack is resolved). These temporary hit points do not stack with each other, but stack with temporary hit points from other sources.
In addition, you gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls whenever you have temporary hit points.

backstabbist

May 02, 2009 0:31:36

Define "Future"

One mark of d20Modern progress levels was the potency increase of handheld hurt hurlers...
Crossbow 1d10 --> Rifle 2d10 --> LaseRifle 3d8 --> PlasRifle 3d10 --> GravRifle 3d12
so just what do you mean "Future" Soldier?

As for armor, what progress level of armor for your "future"?
If Oldschool Medium Armor = ~ as good a bear
will Modern Med Armor be better than a bear?
Will Advanced Med Armor be better than that?
Will Techmazing Med Armor be even better than THAT?

Or will medium armor always be ~ as good as a bear.... no matter how much manufacturing and materials advance

When you say 'future', will things be New & Improved
or just New

slasher2587

May 03, 2009 18:04:13

I apologize for being vague.

The majority of the firearms presented in my game are similar to the Aliens series of weapons, caseless ammo clips that are triggered by an electric pulse to the rear of the bullet, instead of a hammer. The most technologically advanced firearms will be weapons that fire plasma-covered rounds (like thermite rounds). If I implement full plasma weapons or lasers, they will be very rare to come by. Pistol - 1d8 a crossbow would do 1d4 or maybe 1d6, keeping all advanced materials relative.

The base armor will be a form of advanced kevlar. Fiber armor (+0 Armor for the most basic) consists of suits, jackets, etc. Enhanced Fiber armor will only give up to maybe a +4 for the most expensive versions. Fiber is light armor, so you add your Dex or Int to Armor.
Combat armor (+2 for a ballistic vest, +3 for a vest, helmet, and reinforced-padding combo). Combat armor is also light.
Mesh armor uses a combination of overlapping metallic and/or polymer scales or discs (+6 Armor for the least expensive). Heavy armor (so no ability modifiers).
Carapace armor uses clam-shell style plating, that completely covers the wearer from head to toe (+8 for the least expensive). Heavy Armor.

Going for New and Improved.

AbdulAlhazred

May 11, 2009 10:18:10

I had an extensive discussion with some other people on another forum where we considered what sort of rules modifications would be required and what the best way to go about doing a futuristic game using 4e as a base. Basically we just considered "how would you play in the Traveler universe using 4e rules?" since Traveler was a pretty generic futuristic sci-fi system. If you can produce results reasonably similar to Traveler then you can probably emulate most of the other similar types of worlds.

The real problem is that 4e combat is pretty well designed around melee. It just will not translate well at all into an environment where 99.9% of all combat is ranged and at least some of it is likely to be quite long ranged at that.

Making a "sticky defender" is just irrelevant under those conditions. Your opponents will almost always be raining hot lead (or plasma) on the party. All the fancy rules on forced movement, flanking, etc and powers related to that kind of thing are just going to be basically worthless. At best they will be a LOT less important than they are in 4e where ranged weapons are mostly problematic and at best only a few specific classes can really use them effectively.

Hit points really don't make much sense in such an environment either. You can fluff hit points as fatigue, morale, minor wounds, etc in a sword battle. It is impossible to do that credibly in a shoot out. Either the bullet hits and puts a hole in you or it doesn't. It won't be too preposterous at level 1 where a character taking 2d10 is not going to keep standing for very long, but at higher levels things get laughable. You have PCs with 150 hit points who can just stand around and take 15 rifle slugs to the chest!

4e might work OK for something like a sci-fantasy type setting ala Gamma World, but it isn't going to work well at all IMHO for a fairly realistic sort of "hard" sci-fi setting.