Old style D&D at Goodman Games - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Old style D&D at Goodman Games

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
ultimate_cap
Sep 13, 2011 23:36:59 So, has anyone checked this out over at Goodman Games? DCCRPG

I downloaded and read through the Beta PDF and, I gotta say, it seems pretty cool. Yes, simplistic, but at the same time, there is a certain elegance to it that makes me actually want to try it. It uses the 3.0 engine, but based of 1st edition flavor and moderm game design ideas.

Don't think this would ever replace D&D (character develpment is no where near the same level) but for a causual side game or distraction, could be entertaining. And they have 8 adventures lined up to support it, which I really find very nice (module support is just sorely lacking in 4e, after the initial run).

Of course, Goodman also has a nice selection of 4e modules as well to choose from.
#2
ecla
Sep 14, 2011 1:08:42 I've played in a beta test game of DCCRPG at rpol.net. The game does not use the "3.0 engine" (do Pen & Paper games have engines??) at all, instead it is a Basic D&D-like game with some elements of more modern game design (but not too many - this is still your pa's roll stats, roll for hps, dead at zero hps kind of system).

The most interesting thing for me was the 'character creation funnel', which is a refreshing and often hilarious (and always bloody) game prologue where people play multiple 0-level peons. The lucky few survivors of the 'funnel' level up as 1st level characters with classes.
#3
frothsof
Sep 14, 2011 5:51:33 why not just play the real thing? but if im going to play a retro clone ill stick with osric and labyrinth lord
#4
Phobos
Sep 14, 2011 7:58:23
(module support is just sorely lacking in 4e, after the initial run).

THIS

I grabbed the DCC to look at.

#5
AbdulAlhazred
Sep 14, 2011 8:02:53
why not just play the real thing? but if im going to play a retro clone ill stick with osric and labyrinth lord

Well, why are their any retro-clones at all? Mostly because there were a lot of variations of old style D&D, and even if you want just "the AD&D experience" the game had a lot of rough edges that weren't especially adding to the experience.

I mean, think about it. You could make a perfectly nice lightweight dungeon crawling game ALA Basic using a very stripped down version of 4e effectively. It wouldn't be exactly MECHANICALLY the original, but who here thinks figuring out if a save for a "Wand of Death" is a save vs Wands or a save vs Death? lol. The thing that was attractive about the game was quick easy play, deadliness, a certain gritty feel, D&D tropes, etc. That's all Goodman (and some of the other R-Cs) are doing.

I think the confustion on d20 or not comes about because the way you legally make a retro-clone is you claim it is a d20 implementation. It just HAPPENS to be a d20 with customized rules that work exactly like AD&D or whatever. So pretty much all the clones pretend to be d20 3e variations.
#6
ultimate_cap
Sep 14, 2011 10:24:36
I've played in a beta test game of DCCRPG at rpol.net. The game does not use the "3.0 engine" (do Pen & Paper games have engines??) at all, instead it is a Basic D&D-like game with some elements of more modern game design (but not too many - this is still your pa's roll stats, roll for hps, dead at zero hps kind of system).

The most interesting thing for me was the 'character creation funnel', which is a refreshing and often hilarious (and always bloody) game prologue where people play multiple 0-level peons. The lucky few survivors of the 'funnel' level up as 1st level characters with classes.

Yea, your correct, maybe there was a better way to word that.

And the funnel system sounded like so much fun when I was reading it. That was really cool sounding.
#7
ultimate_cap
Sep 14, 2011 10:28:33
why not just play the real thing? but if im going to play a retro clone ill stick with osric and labyrinth lord

Well, why are their any retro-clones at all? Mostly because there were a lot of variations of old style D&D, and even if you want just "the AD&D experience" the game had a lot of rough edges that weren't especially adding to the experience.

I mean, think about it. You could make a perfectly nice lightweight dungeon crawling game ALA Basic using a very stripped down version of 4e effectively. It wouldn't be exactly MECHANICALLY the original, but who here thinks figuring out if a save for a "Wand of Death" is a save vs Wands or a save vs Death? lol. The thing that was attractive about the game was quick easy play, deadliness, a certain gritty feel, D&D tropes, etc. That's all Goodman (and some of the other R-Cs) are doing.

I think the confustion on d20 or not comes about because the way you legally make a retro-clone is you claim it is a d20 implementation. It just HAPPENS to be a d20 with customized rules that work exactly like AD&D or whatever. So pretty much all the clones pretend to be d20 3e variations.

If you guys haven't check out the download, you should. This is more than just a retro-clone. It uses a lot of old school foundation, but impliments them with a nice blend of modern mechanics. It really seems pretty well designed, and it's only in the beta design.

Note, I'm not carrying a torch for the game or anything, I'm just sharing what I thought was a very creative find with fellow gamers. As always, find judement is up to the gamer. ;o)
#8
ultimate_cap
Sep 14, 2011 10:29:15
(module support is just sorely lacking in 4e, after the initial run).

THIS

I grabbed the DCC to look at.

Cool, please share your thoughts when your ready.
#9
Phobos
Sep 14, 2011 11:40:11
Cool, please share your thoughts when your ready.

Interesting read and interesting concept. We have a solid group that plays, I may throw this out at them next week (we already have tonights Dark Sun game lined up) for fun. I see nothing wrong with this at all. Hell I played and loved 1E, and its an interesting mix of that and 4E mechanics.

Apparently, I am:

Lawful

08 STR
10 AGL
10 STA
07 PER
10 INT
14 LUC

4 HP
Save vs Poison (bonus)

20sp, 22 cp
Shortsword & iron spikes
Halfling Trader

I've named myself "Tinder".

I'm ready to die!!!
#10
Phobos
Sep 14, 2011 11:42:45
The most interesting thing for me was the 'character creation funnel', which is a refreshing and often hilarious (and always bloody) game prologue where people play multiple 0-level peons. The lucky few survivors of the 'funnel' level up as 1st level characters with classes.

This BTW, made me think of Munchkin!
#11
Finarvyn
Oct 08, 2011 10:16:20 I'm not an employee of Goodman Games, but I hang out at their forum a lot and have been playtesting the DCC RPG since March.

why not just play the real thing? but if im going to play a retro clone ill stick with osric and labyrinth lord

I'm not entirely certain what you mean. A "retro clone" is an attempt to replicate an out-of-print RPG. The DCC RPG isn't that at all.

The DCC RPG is more of a "what if the designers of D&D in 1974 chose to follow the literature from the AD&D DMG Appendix N more closely" type game. It starts with the 3E SRD and then diverges quickly to become a totally different experience in its own right.

It's not trying to copy anything, thus no "retro clone" label.

A few interesting twists:
1. The character funnel (already mentioned), which gives a very different feel to starting a campaign since you really don't know which character lives to carry the torch next time.
2. Random background creation, including career options and random lucky traits, which gives some rather interesting starting character options.
3. Extensive spell charts with critical success and failure built in. These can make magic quite unusual and interesting.
4. An attempt to move away from standardized monsters. Most 1920's pulp literature didn't feature the hero mindlessly slaying orcs, and DCC tries to avoid having your character do this either.
5. An attempt to make magic items unique instead of generic. I think "no more +1 swords" is one of the quotes.

In addition, Goodman is going out of his way to make the artwork very old school and similar in style to some of the old pulp books. Some of the maps I've seen look amazing. (Almost too amazing, since the players don't get to see them!)

Any game could probably be played with these options. DCC wants to make them part of the basic design of the system.

Anyway, we're having fun with it and since the Beta rules are a free download I think they're at least worth a look.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ultimate_cap Sep 13, 2011 23:36:59	So, has anyone checked this out over at Goodman Games? DCCRPG I downloaded and read through the Beta PDF and, I gotta say, it seems pretty cool. Yes, simplistic, but at the same time, there is a certain elegance to it that makes me actually want to try it. It uses the 3.0 engine, but based of 1st edition flavor and moderm game design ideas. Don't think this would ever replace D&D (character develpment is no where near the same level) but for a causual side game or distraction, could be entertaining. And they have 8 adventures lined up to support it, which I really find very nice (module support is just sorely lacking in 4e, after the initial run). Of course, Goodman also has a nice selection of 4e modules as well to choose from.
#2 ecla Sep 14, 2011 1:08:42	I've played in a beta test game of DCCRPG at rpol.net. The game does not use the "3.0 engine" (do Pen & Paper games have engines??) at all, instead it is a Basic D&D-like game with some elements of more modern game design (but not too many - this is still your pa's roll stats, roll for hps, dead at zero hps kind of system). The most interesting thing for me was the 'character creation funnel', which is a refreshing and often hilarious (and always bloody) game prologue where people play multiple 0-level peons. The lucky few survivors of the 'funnel' level up as 1st level characters with classes.
#3 frothsof Sep 14, 2011 5:51:33	why not just play the real thing? but if im going to play a retro clone ill stick with osric and labyrinth lord
#4 Phobos Sep 14, 2011 7:58:23	(module support is just sorely lacking in 4e, after the initial run). THIS I grabbed the DCC to look at.
#5 AbdulAlhazred Sep 14, 2011 8:02:53	why not just play the real thing? but if im going to play a retro clone ill stick with osric and labyrinth lord Well, why are their any retro-clones at all? Mostly because there were a lot of variations of old style D&D, and even if you want just "the AD&D experience" the game had a lot of rough edges that weren't especially adding to the experience. I mean, think about it. You could make a perfectly nice lightweight dungeon crawling game ALA Basic using a very stripped down version of 4e effectively. It wouldn't be exactly MECHANICALLY the original, but who here thinks figuring out if a save for a "Wand of Death" is a save vs Wands or a save vs Death? lol. The thing that was attractive about the game was quick easy play, deadliness, a certain gritty feel, D&D tropes, etc. That's all Goodman (and some of the other R-Cs) are doing. I think the confustion on d20 or not comes about because the way you legally make a retro-clone is you claim it is a d20 implementation. It just HAPPENS to be a d20 with customized rules that work exactly like AD&D or whatever. So pretty much all the clones pretend to be d20 3e variations.
#6 ultimate_cap Sep 14, 2011 10:24:36	I've played in a beta test game of DCCRPG at rpol.net. The game does not use the "3.0 engine" (do Pen & Paper games have engines??) at all, instead it is a Basic D&D-like game with some elements of more modern game design (but not too many - this is still your pa's roll stats, roll for hps, dead at zero hps kind of system). The most interesting thing for me was the 'character creation funnel', which is a refreshing and often hilarious (and always bloody) game prologue where people play multiple 0-level peons. The lucky few survivors of the 'funnel' level up as 1st level characters with classes. Yea, your correct, maybe there was a better way to word that. And the funnel system sounded like so much fun when I was reading it. That was really cool sounding.
#7 ultimate_cap Sep 14, 2011 10:28:33	why not just play the real thing? but if im going to play a retro clone ill stick with osric and labyrinth lord Well, why are their any retro-clones at all? Mostly because there were a lot of variations of old style D&D, and even if you want just "the AD&D experience" the game had a lot of rough edges that weren't especially adding to the experience. I mean, think about it. You could make a perfectly nice lightweight dungeon crawling game ALA Basic using a very stripped down version of 4e effectively. It wouldn't be exactly MECHANICALLY the original, but who here thinks figuring out if a save for a "Wand of Death" is a save vs Wands or a save vs Death? lol. The thing that was attractive about the game was quick easy play, deadliness, a certain gritty feel, D&D tropes, etc. That's all Goodman (and some of the other R-Cs) are doing. I think the confustion on d20 or not comes about because the way you legally make a retro-clone is you claim it is a d20 implementation. It just HAPPENS to be a d20 with customized rules that work exactly like AD&D or whatever. So pretty much all the clones pretend to be d20 3e variations. If you guys haven't check out the download, you should. This is more than just a retro-clone. It uses a lot of old school foundation, but impliments them with a nice blend of modern mechanics. It really seems pretty well designed, and it's only in the beta design. Note, I'm not carrying a torch for the game or anything, I'm just sharing what I thought was a very creative find with fellow gamers. As always, find judement is up to the gamer. ;o)
#8 ultimate_cap Sep 14, 2011 10:29:15	(module support is just sorely lacking in 4e, after the initial run). THIS I grabbed the DCC to look at. Cool, please share your thoughts when your ready.
#9 Phobos Sep 14, 2011 11:40:11	Cool, please share your thoughts when your ready. Interesting read and interesting concept. We have a solid group that plays, I may throw this out at them next week (we already have tonights Dark Sun game lined up) for fun. I see nothing wrong with this at all. Hell I played and loved 1E, and its an interesting mix of that and 4E mechanics. Apparently, I am: Lawful 08 STR 10 AGL 10 STA 07 PER 10 INT 14 LUC 4 HP Save vs Poison (bonus) 20sp, 22 cp Shortsword & iron spikes Halfling Trader I've named myself "Tinder". I'm ready to die!!!
#10 Phobos Sep 14, 2011 11:42:45	The most interesting thing for me was the 'character creation funnel', which is a refreshing and often hilarious (and always bloody) game prologue where people play multiple 0-level peons. The lucky few survivors of the 'funnel' level up as 1st level characters with classes. This BTW, made me think of Munchkin!
#11 Finarvyn Oct 08, 2011 10:16:20	I'm not an employee of Goodman Games, but I hang out at their forum a lot and have been playtesting the DCC RPG since March. why not just play the real thing? but if im going to play a retro clone ill stick with osric and labyrinth lord I'm not entirely certain what you mean. A "retro clone" is an attempt to replicate an out-of-print RPG. The DCC RPG isn't that at all. The DCC RPG is more of a "what if the designers of D&D in 1974 chose to follow the literature from the AD&D DMG Appendix N more closely" type game. It starts with the 3E SRD and then diverges quickly to become a totally different experience in its own right. It's not trying to copy anything, thus no "retro clone" label. A few interesting twists: 1. The character funnel (already mentioned), which gives a very different feel to starting a campaign since you really don't know which character lives to carry the torch next time. 2. Random background creation, including career options and random lucky traits, which gives some rather interesting starting character options. 3. Extensive spell charts with critical success and failure built in. These can make magic quite unusual and interesting. 4. An attempt to move away from standardized monsters. Most 1920's pulp literature didn't feature the hero mindlessly slaying orcs, and DCC tries to avoid having your character do this either. 5. An attempt to make magic items unique instead of generic. I think "no more +1 swords" is one of the quotes. In addition, Goodman is going out of his way to make the artwork very old school and similar in style to some of the old pulp books. Some of the maps I've seen look amazing. (Almost too amazing, since the players don't get to see them!) Any game could probably be played with these options. DCC wants to make them part of the basic design of the system. Anyway, we're having fun with it and since the Beta rules are a free download I think they're at least worth a look.