I actually do NOT like the pathfinder system (just as I did not like 3E), but I have to say I am impressed with Paizo's products. I find it really disheartening and confusing when I see how much material and stuff they are coming out with and then look at what's coming out under Wizards. I can't imagine that Paizo has a bigger budget or staff. It's mystifying.
I bought the PDFs of their monster manuals just for the art and nostalgia value, and I remember thinking -- why can't wizards do stuff like this? Each monster was on one page. (What a concept.) They are coming out with their third MM soon..
WOTC seems to be developing stuff at a glacial rate compared to these guys.
The new book on Magic Item's Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium looks good as does the Fey book, so that is nice, buy next year there are TWO books announced.
I really love the 4E rules, but I feel let down by WOTC in terms of product support. I like being creative; I guess I will just make up my own stuff, but I also like being able to buy cool products.
I'd really kill for skirmish and war game rules for 4E. That would be awesome. I'd love a new world. I'd love a new monster manual, and a book of deities and epic level stuff (give us something to shoot for). I'd love more DM stuff.
What would really be great is something truly surprising and original.
Haven't these guys heard of "publish or perish?"
What are there guys spending their budget on?
WOTC is spending their budget on VTT, encounters, game days and on expansions to their tools.
last i checked (and correct me if i am wrong) paizo dosent have any of these things. public play programs for promotion cost alot of money.
so my best guess most of the WOTC budget is going to marketing.
i have mordenkainens, and none of it is reprinted material exept for very minor things.
No.
Superior Weapons Rules: Reprinted.
Weapon Table: Mostly reprinted (I think 4 new weapons out of 20)
Superior Implements Rules:Reprinted
Impelemnts Table: Entirely Reprinted
Item Enchantments: Many "greater/lesser" versions of old items, a few outright reprints
Adventuring Gear: Many reprints, many old items appearing with a new name (ie, Investigation Gear is just the Inquisitives Kit relabeled)
Hirelings and Henchmen: Entirely Reprinted
i have mordenkainens, and none of it is reprinted material exept for very minor things.
No.
Superior Weapons Rules: Reprinted.
Weapon Table: Mostly reprinted (I think 4 new weapons out of 20)
Superior Implements Rules:Reprinted
Impelemnts Table: Entirely Reprinted
Item Enchantments: Many "greater/lesser" versions of old items, a few outright reprints
Adventuring Gear: Many reprints, many old items appearing with a new name (ie, Investigation Gear is just the Inquisitives Kit relabeled)
Hirelings and Henchmen: Entirely Reprinted
superior weapons: i think you should probably include rules of what your putting out
superior implements: see above
implements table: see above
item enchants: this is less then 10 items, and i dont see any outright reprints
adventureing gear: god forbid they tell you all of your options
hirelings and henchment: ok, sure got me there
item enchants: this is less then 10 items, and i dont see any outright reprints
Map of Unseen Lands for sure, along with a bunch of other Wondrous Items that nobody knew about but actually existed in AVI and AVII.
i have mordenkainens, and none of it is reprinted material exept for very minor things.
No.
Superior Weapons Rules: Reprinted.
Weapon Table: Mostly reprinted (I think 4 new weapons out of 20)
Superior Implements Rules:Reprinted
Impelemnts Table: Entirely Reprinted
Item Enchantments: Many "greater/lesser" versions of old items, a few outright reprints
Adventuring Gear: Many reprints, many old items appearing with a new name (ie, Investigation Gear is just the Inquisitives Kit relabeled)
Hirelings and Henchmen: Entirely Reprinted
Yeah, I suspected that the Virtual Table Top would be part of the trouble. I really doubt it would be something that I would use, and I would be an ideal candidate (long-time gamer, distant friends, tech-savvy). I think it is a ill-considered project, but I doubt they will abandon it.
Well, I am happy to buy Paizo products instead -- I already ordered a case of their minis, and I will probably buy the next Monster manual. I can always convert them to 4E using the online monster builder. WOTC still has my DDI subscription, and I am seeing an improvement in their online content (mostly due to Chris Perkins and Bruce Cordell).
Hopefully WOTC's new mini line will look good. And I will take a look at the Emporium book, the Fey book and the dungeon survival book. Long ago back in the early days, the publishing schedule was also quite slow.
They are working on 5E...
Citation needed.
item enchants: this is less then 10 items, and i dont see any outright reprints
Map of Unseen Lands for sure, along with a bunch of other Wondrous Items that nobody knew about but actually existed in AVI and AVII.
Are they? It is interesting how many community members say this, even if they are joking. How many of us really think that? It’s a problem for wizards either way.
They are working on 5E...
Citation needed.
www.dragonlanceforums.com/forums/showthr...
Pathfinder isn't just a D&D clone, and it isn't competing with D&D. It isn't the 3.5 remixed rules (A houseruled OGL) that sell it, it is the Setting. It began to sell once Dragon and Dungeon ended their runs. (And the names became placeholders to inferior articles inside DDi)
Piazo is very clever, making their own setting and having a detailed world to explore. It isn't that Wizards and Paizo are best of pals, but Pathfinder has a different marketing ideal, and the Pathfinder Society seems to connect with consumers more that what Wizard as offered thus far. They changed up some front end stuff for the classes, fixed Grappling, clarified a lot of rules and shifted a lot of bad/broken stuff. Mainly, though, they focused on the campaign front, adding to the Lore of the setting and have produced fewer actual books than the slew of books that Wizards have.
It is my overall feeling that Pathfinder will eventually be converted to the new edition of D&D, though I think it will be for 5th edition instead of the Essentials tainted current one.
My point, focused as it is on Pathfinder, is that both are doing their own thing and doesn't have a thing to do with the other. Wizards thinks Paizo is beneath them and Paizo is gracious for Wizards to let them continue using the OGL.
Oh, and 5th edition can't get here soon enough for me. I just hope the lessons from the Essentials mis-step is taken and the new edition is a step forward instead of being 1st edition with new graphics.
Pathfinder isn't just a D&D clone
Well, no, because it is D&D. Just....3rd edition D&D under the OGL.
it isn't competing with D&D.
There are legions of Pathfinder evangelists that give a distinctly different impression. There are a few obnoxious threads on the Paizo forums crowing about how Pathfinder is outselling D&D that also really kinda point to a competition thing going on.
It isn't the 3.5 remixed rules (A houseruled OGL) that sell it, it is the Setting.
Unsurprisingly, I have to disagree. Pathfinder is just 3.5 with a fresh coat of paint, and the Pathfinder setting (Golarion? Golion? No, the last is the Japanese name for Voltron or something...) I have heard described as a generic fantasy setting. Granted, I've never looked at it, but I also don't have much interest in looking at it either. But, given that the Pathfinder evangalists I've encountered in person have never even mentioned the setting as one of the pros for Pathfinder (and perhaps a pair of the online guys mentioned it), I'm really not seeing the setting as a big draw to Pathfinder.
it's a fantasy kitchen sink that, from an outsider's point of view, simply seems to create analogues to modern places and changes the name.
i'm honestly far more interesting in settings like Eberron, which has a unique take on magic and is geographically setup to be an "adventurer's world", or Dark Sun which is build around a few certain themes (mad max meets D&D).
mechanically speaking PF does little to actually fix my issues with 3.5 since all it did was slap on a coat of blue paint on top of the peeling red paint and rebrand it as "new and improved". yes it did cleaned up Grappling & Tripping... so instead of being unweildly and generally useless, it's now manageable and generally useless. cleaning up a system without making it more of a viable choice doesn't make it much better. just cleaner. over the course of our PF campaign the only person who ever grappled was the clay golem or my black tentacles spell when i want to remove mooks from play... everyone else just ignored the subsystem.
other then that it slightly tweaks all classes, but doesn't do much to change the actual balance issues that plague the system, mainly that casters still have WAY more available options then the non-casters & the overall uselessness of the skill system due to how easily spells bypass them.
the few odd issues it did actually try to solve required Paizo to solve them the same way 4th ed solved my 3.5 problems: by removing them wholesale and replacing that mechanic with something else (see some spells like polymorph).
I hope they do well, though, and continue to thrive.
As a default, it is a good standard to start from, and a good way to envision the changes to the "system" of the OGL through the character's eyes. I do realized that most of the "bad" that 3.5 had is not taken care of with the fixes that PF has, but it does well with what it has. I like, for example, that the Sorcerer is a complete class now, instead of a wizard lite.
I just think that the setting is the selling point. The Pathfinder Society is a great help in that regard, providing gaming at local stores durring the weekend with a good overall system of modules made specifically for that purpose.
I believe the setting is more than the "kitchen sink."
Well, ok, cool. But, is there anything that explains the world in detail? Or can you tell us what you like about it? I'm not waiting for you to say something I can pounce on and denounce you as a elf-wizard-loving grognard; i'm just curious.
First thing, it is made quite clear that the humans are not all the same. Depending on where you are from, the differences between the cultures for the humans is varied and interesting. The other races are explained and have reason to be there, unlike some of the later races in the 3.5 "Greyhawk" setting, and they are not afraid to say that Half Orcs are created from the rages of pillage and ravages of war as well as mention that they do not "fit in" either society even if they are true bred. Gnomes are also fleshed out instead of being Halfling midgets.
The different territories and kingdoms have a fair amount of detail, almost making them separate settings into themselves for the bigger ones.
The overall setup for the Pathfinder Society also brings the player into the power struggle between the factions that represent the kingdoms, people, and organizations. It also gives them some playtime within an organized structure with the system that can be gone to every week. Something that D&D is missing at the moment.
Compare this to the level of support that WOTC is giving their campaign settings. Now, I'm not a DDI subscriber, so maybe it's putting out massive amounts of campaign support. But in terms of actual print products, Golarion is getting more support in the average quarter than any of WOTC's setting have gotten since 4E began.
It is my overall feeling that Pathfinder will eventually be converted to the new edition of D&D, though I think it will be for 5th edition instead of the Essentials tainted current one.
Not gonna happen. Paizo had developed their own fan base, and it's substantial enough that they can continue with their own system in the future, and not be subject to the whims of WotC for their future business. Will it every happen? Doubtful, but I won't say it's a certain no. But it damn sure won't be during 5th edition...more like 10th edition...and only if Paizo's business takes a pretty solid blow for some reason or another.
I agree somewhat that Piazo would not jump in willy nilly at the drop of a hat, but I doubt that they have resigned themselves to never doing it at all.
WOTC killed D&D but luckily Paizo came along and helped it to survive.
Thanks to how laughably and cripplingly bad 4E is Paizo have a HUGE player base of people who actually enjoy roleplaying games rather than tactical combat games to work with.
Yeah, the focus on tactical combat is ultimately what put me off 4E despite the fact that I liked a number of the changes it made from the prior edition.
Indeed, some of the issues I had with 3rd/3.5 revolved around its tactical focus. And since Pathfinder didn't really change any of that I saw no reason to get into it. After all, I had plenty of 3rd/3.5 books to draw on and what I'd seen of Pathfnder's setting didn't interest me at all.