My background is D&D, going back to 1E AD&D. That's what I've always played, with some Call of Cthulhu (non-d20) thrown in now and again. Most recently I've been playing 3.5E and 4E.
My 3.5E game is wrapping up, and I've become bored with 4E (I have theories as to why, but I don't want to get into them and start a flame fest. I only mention it so that people can take it into account in answer my question about a recommendation).
Rather than start another 3.5E game, I thought I'd try something different with the group. I could always run a 1E or 2E game, but I thought I'd try something different from D&D altogether and see how it goes over. Problem is, I'm not that familiar with other systems.
I'd like to stick with Fantasy, maybe a "gritty" game system.
I've looked at Warhammer FRPG. I like a lot of what I saw, but I wonder if combat would bog down a little, even though it sounds cool in reading it.
Someone has recommended Talislanta, and that looks interesting.
But I haven't really played these games much if at all.
So all of you guys who have been steeped in the hobby for years - any thoughts?
I'll certainly be running some version or other of D&D in the future, but want to take a brief diversion. If I can benefit from the knowledge and experience of this forum, that would be great.
I appreciate any thoughts you guys might have on an RPG to try, and I apologize for going off-topic in here, but like I said I know there are some people who know a lot about RPGs who will never see this message if it is in the off-topic area.
Thanks,
Steer
I heard Burning Wheel and Iron Heroes had that whole gritty thing going on.
P.S: Definately try WFRP. It's obscenely deadly, but it's all in great fun. Ish.
Iron Heroes is still sort of 3rd edition-based right? I might look at that, but I'm going to look at things that are further from 3E first.
What is Burning Wheel?
All I know of Burning Wheel is from word of mouth, so I dunno if it's what you're looking for... And Iron Heroes is based off of 3.5e and is a setting in it's own right. Notably, Magic classes are depowered and non-casters are powered up. Combat's a lot deadlier IIRC.
Dark Heresy is Warhammer 40k. Roll under d100 system. It like WFRP, is very deadly. And Psykers are a laugh.
7th Sea (it's got some issues like Spaniards... but it's a good gem none the less) Pred20 7th Sea I should say. It might be hard to find though. It's not very gritty but it is just that full of swashbuckling goodness.
Warhammer Fantasy Rp... is just freakin awesome. (everyone can die, and fairly quickly at that)
If you can find it Earthdawn seems to have quite a following behind it.
I hear Deadlands is pretty good.
I've seen Deadlands at the store, but haven't flipped through the book or anything.
Now I know why Dark Heresy rings a bell, I think there are some Warhammer 40K novels I've seen at the store that are based on it.
I've written the others down (I've heard people mention Runequest before - I'll check it out) so I can take a look at all of them.
I think my group would be willing to do some 40K. We've done some Star Wars and they liked that. I'm going to read through the info I find online on these various games and learn more about them.
From my understanding it's a Wild west kind of game (i've not had enough time to really look through my book just yet. Been too busy with D&D and some other stuff) I've not really heard anyone say anything bad about it though.
I'd like to stick with Fantasy, maybe a "gritty" game system.
Conan. If you want gritty, Conan is certainly that.
Thanks for the recommendation Arderkrag. I haven't looked at the Conan RPG, though my local store has quite a few books and supplements for that game. I will check it out next time I am there.
I appreciate it!
It uses the Savage Worlds system (which can be played as medival, futuristic, or super-hero) for play.
If you're looking for 'gritty' hit points, where hit point loss means something (every hit point), then this is a good system.
Good one-off game systems, Toon and Paranoia. I know you didn't ask for them, but I thought it might be useful.
Toon is based on Looney tunes, and in Paranoia, the DM really is supposed to be out to kill his player's characters.
...but I cannot reccomend Feng Shui highly enough.
It's a very cinematic game, so it may not be your cup of tea, but the gameworld is unique and is a *lot* of fun.
Edit: I just found a better link which describes the game world here.
Conan. If you want gritty, Conan is certainly that.
Seconded
Mongoose made fighters feel special...all within the 3.5 construct. Of course, they didn't do magic well at all, so their elimination (or shoving them to NPC status) helped emphasize fighters and rogues in my game.
One of the things I loved about some of their source books is they took different ways to execute a multiclass and called it something different, changing some of the skill/abilities the character got.
For example, if they combined Fighter and Rogue to get Pirate, they had a progression chart that said, take fighter at first level, Pirate at levels 2 and 3, fighter at 4th, etc. they Then might switch a Fighter benefit to 'To Sail a Sea of Slaughter' ability. Thus, this new multiclass gets flavor as well, but is basically just a fighter rogue hybrid.
Deadlands is a mix: Western Horror.
It uses the Savage Worlds system (which can be played as medival, futuristic, or super-hero) for play.
Word to the wise -- if you can find copies of the original Deadlands books, I strongly recommend it. The original system uses playing cards and poker chips for adjudication, and adds a great deal to the ambience of the game. Deadlands has been translated into everything from d20 to GURPS, but in my experience everything but the original system really takes the wind out of the game.
I'm sure the new Reloaded! rules that use the Savage Worlds system are fine, but my hearty recommendation is for the original system.
The original system uses playing cards and poker chips for adjudication, and adds a great deal to the ambience of the game.
Didn't play the original rules.
Reloaded! uses Playing Cards for initiative and Huckster spell casting, with Poker Chips to track bennies which can be cashed in for xp or additional dice to certain rolls.
Red chips let the DM get a new chip for the villains.
I suggested for the 'gritty' feel, because each hit point lost represents a penalty to all rolls.
If you are in a more sci-fi mood, check out Cthulhutech.
Don't worry about combat getting bogged down; combat is brutal and fairly short. Most creatures (including your characters) have 12 or less wounds, and most weapons hit for d6 or so, and the system is so 'gritty' that your heroes will very rarely encounter anything outside of those parameters.
Original Deadlands is definitely the way to go, the revamped one where you use dice for resolution is nowhere near as fun.
The original Deadlands uses dice for resolution. It also used cards for initiative. As a matter of fact Savage Worlds (the system for Deadlands Reloaded) is based on The Great Rail Wars mini war game which is based on the original Deadlands system. So really, Deadlands Reloaded is just an evolution (in a round about way) of the original Deadlands.
I would recommend Savage Worlds for a gritty fantasy campaign. Really it can handle almost any genre.
For really gritty fantasy you just can’t beat Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay though.
Burning Wheel has a lot of things about it that are very different from D&D, and are tricky to adjust to, but are really interesting. Let me see if I can hit a few bullet points (bear in mind that I've never played an actual campaign before, and I'm not an expert on the system, so I might get details wrong):
- Character creation uses a lifepath system where you plot out roughly where your character has been and what they've done up until the start of the campaign.
- Character advancement is heavily tied into how you define your character's goals; you essentially earn character advancement points by stating very openly what your character believes and what they want to do about their beliefs, and then following through on that, while the GM attempts to challenge your beliefs; basically, you explicitly tell the GM "this is what I want my character to struggle against," and then you get rewarded for it.
- The other big part of character advancement is that you primarily get better at things through practice; and more than that, through pushing yourself to your limits. This is the only system I've seen yet where a player might get genuinely excited about having a penalty to their rolls, because it gives them the opportunity to score a few Difficult tests and improve their abilities. Win or lose, the important thing is that you tried.
- The combat system is chaotic, tactical, and dangerous; I heard an interview with the creator where he said something to the effect of "I'm not pretending it's a realistic system, but it's based on the fact that every single account I've read from people who have actually been in a real-life fight has has one common feature, and that's that they all said 'once the fighting started, I didn't know what was going on any more.'" It creates a very tense, gritty feel that you don't really get from D&D's "you always know where everything is and exactly what's going on, so you can make an optimal tactical decision."
- It has a cool system for resolving arguments between characters that is almost as complex as its combat system, and has a very debate-like feel to it (i.e. you probably can't convince your opponent that you're right, but you can convince everyone watching you that you won the argument!)
- Elves, dwarves, and orcs all feel much closer to their iconic Tolkein counterparts than many RPGs manage; elves have a unique stat called Grief that, if it ever maxes out, causes your character to perform the in-setting equivalent of "Going West"; dwarves have a unique stat called Greed that can end with them locking themselves away in a mountain with their treasure hoard for all time; and orcs have the unique stat Hatred that can amount to them turning into mindless, savage forces of destruction.
The original Deadlands uses dice for resolution. It also used cards for initiative. As a matter of fact Savage Worlds (the system for Deadlands Reloaded) is based on The Great Rail Wars mini war game which is based on the original Deadlands system. So really, Deadlands Reloaded is just an evolution (in a round about way) of the original Deadlands.
I would recommend Savage Worlds for a gritty fantasy campaign. Really it can handle almost any genre.
For really gritty fantasy you just can’t beat Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay though.
I remember now, the huckster used cards to cast spells. Been a long time.
I remember now, the huckster used cards to cast spells. Been a long time.
Er... Reloaded doesn't change that...
It is very cool.
And has several campaigns and expansions.
I wonder why no one has mentioned Storyteller yet (especially the old one). While Vampire: The Masquerade (which I can't recommend highly enough) is set today, there is a version called Vampire: The Dark Ages (or Dark Ages: Vampire for the newer version). It is AWESOME: historical (well, with vampires), dark, gritty, and with just the right mix of epic- and deadliness. One of the best RPGs out there, in my opinion.
-Cherubaddon
Older versions of runequest, not the newer mongoose release.
Try the old Rolemaster, 1988 era by Iron Crown.
Back in the day, people burned out on D&D, super creative, played that.
Also if you can find it waay out of print Dragonquest by SPI is a super gritty game.