Save-or-die in 3.5, how to handle as a DM - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Save-or-die in 3.5, how to handle as a DM

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
urpriest
Jun 10, 2010 14:31:17 One of the complaints I've heard about 3.5 is that it can look a little like nuclear war. Each side tries to act first, and if they don't then the other side will almost certainly kill them, as damage and kill spells quickly outpace resilience.

Now, I find that a little of this sort of thing helps the world's realism. Fantasy is full of "death spells", and it's reasonable to let the players feel powerful by annihilating an enemy every once in a while. However, giving this kind of tool to players in a simulationist system like 3.5 means monsters have it too. My question is, is there a way for monsters to deploy save-or-die spells that doesn't wreck the fun of the game? I'm running an 8th level game in which the players will be fighting a 9th level wizard and a 9th level cleric (not at the same time). The cleric has Circle of Death and the wizard has Cloudkill. Either could mean a TPK right then and there with nothing but a roll of the dice. Call me crazy, but that doesn't sound fun. Is there any way to deploy this kind of spell without ruining the fun of the game? Or should I have all caster foes stick to direct damage and control?
#2
death_isthe_begining
Jun 10, 2010 22:00:22 Both of those spells affect enemies as well as allies. The wizard and the cleric probably don't want to kill all their minions at the beginning of the fight. Undead are immune to death effects. Finally Death Ward gives immunity to death effects.

Condsidering all that, It depends on whether you want the enemy to be a villian or just another caster.

Villian: Add a secret door leading to a room that has some form of warning about the Villian's tendency to use death spells maybe even add a scroll few Scrolls of Death Ward.
Enemy: Have the same info as above but have it out in the open just a few rooms away from the caster.
#3
urpriest
Jun 10, 2010 23:27:41 Thanks for the advice...I'd agree, leaving a hint around makes things much more fair...there's an NPC that I want to reinforce as suspiciously insightful, perhaps I could have her suggest the use of Death Ward. If she provides the spells herself, that would give the players a time limit to reach their foes, which would make it feel challenging without being a "you die" style of challenge.

Cloudkill makes this trickier, since it's not a death effect...how does Delay Poison interact with Cloudkill? Would it kill you after the spell expired, or would you simply be immune?
#4
death_isthe_begining
Jun 10, 2010 23:49:45 Delay Poison would just delay the spells effect.

If you want an effective solution I have three words for you, Gust of Wind. Cloudkill says it's simmilar to Fog Cloud meaning it does everything Fog Cloud does and that includes the weaknesses.

Edit: Dispell Magic would also work but that involves a dispell check and caster level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 urpriest Jun 10, 2010 14:31:17	One of the complaints I've heard about 3.5 is that it can look a little like nuclear war. Each side tries to act first, and if they don't then the other side will almost certainly kill them, as damage and kill spells quickly outpace resilience. Now, I find that a little of this sort of thing helps the world's realism. Fantasy is full of "death spells", and it's reasonable to let the players feel powerful by annihilating an enemy every once in a while. However, giving this kind of tool to players in a simulationist system like 3.5 means monsters have it too. My question is, is there a way for monsters to deploy save-or-die spells that doesn't wreck the fun of the game? I'm running an 8th level game in which the players will be fighting a 9th level wizard and a 9th level cleric (not at the same time). The cleric has Circle of Death and the wizard has Cloudkill. Either could mean a TPK right then and there with nothing but a roll of the dice. Call me crazy, but that doesn't sound fun. Is there any way to deploy this kind of spell without ruining the fun of the game? Or should I have all caster foes stick to direct damage and control?
#2 death_isthe_begining Jun 10, 2010 22:00:22	Both of those spells affect enemies as well as allies. The wizard and the cleric probably don't want to kill all their minions at the beginning of the fight. Undead are immune to death effects. Finally Death Ward gives immunity to death effects. Condsidering all that, It depends on whether you want the enemy to be a villian or just another caster. Villian: Add a secret door leading to a room that has some form of warning about the Villian's tendency to use death spells maybe even add a scroll few Scrolls of Death Ward. Enemy: Have the same info as above but have it out in the open just a few rooms away from the caster.
#3 urpriest Jun 10, 2010 23:27:41	Thanks for the advice...I'd agree, leaving a hint around makes things much more fair...there's an NPC that I want to reinforce as suspiciously insightful, perhaps I could have her suggest the use of Death Ward. If she provides the spells herself, that would give the players a time limit to reach their foes, which would make it feel challenging without being a "you die" style of challenge. Cloudkill makes this trickier, since it's not a death effect...how does Delay Poison interact with Cloudkill? Would it kill you after the spell expired, or would you simply be immune?
#4 death_isthe_begining Jun 10, 2010 23:49:45	Delay Poison would just delay the spells effect. If you want an effective solution I have three words for you, Gust of Wind. Cloudkill says it's simmilar to Fog Cloud meaning it does everything Fog Cloud does and that includes the weaknesses. Edit: Dispell Magic would also work but that involves a dispell check and caster level.