TC's vision of DnD 5.0 ( but would better suit WarHammer 3.0 )

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

uglyvan

Apr 19, 2010 6:44:44

based on 10 classes

Acrobat
Brute
Craftsman
Druid
Fighter
Hunter
Jeweller
Paladin
Ruler
Teacher

each class ranges -1 to +3
-1 novice
+0 student
+1 professional
+2 champion
+3 master

for a Global Level between -10 and +30.

Then, you access kits with class minimas like in:

Thief: Acrobat 1, Fighter 1, Jeweller 2, Hunter 1
the thief kit has numerous abilities purchaseable given ability points (like in WarHammer rpg)
jeweller for appraising facilities
hunter for stalk/hide

Assassin: Acrobat 3, Craftsman 1, Fighter 2, Druid 2, Paladin 2, Hunter 3
craftsman for tools improvization
druid for potions
paladin for code of conduct

#2

uglyvan

May 01, 2010 8:25:20
... or, the system is a mere listing of abilities, each with minimum class requirements;
abilities are always on;
there are also spells, in a 28 spheres system ( using LICORNES combos such as CxS=healing sphere with 30 graduations from 1x1 to 8x8 );
and there are six characteristics (the usual ones) derived from 12 sub-stats (from Ad&d 2.9, each ranging 1-8 for a characteristics range of 1-30 using legendary values or 1-7 x 1-7 for 1-25 epic values or 1-6 x 1-6 for 1-18 superb values or 1-5 x 1-5 for 1-14 good values);
all abilities are each linked to one characteristic, and your characteristic score gives you slots (or points) to purchase abilities with the abovementioned minimum class requirements

          BASE
score 5   6    7   8
1        1    1    1   1
2        2    2    2   2
3        3    3    3   3
4        4    4    4   4
5        5    5    5   5
6        6    6    6   6
7        8    8    7   7
8        9    9    8   8
9      10  10   9   9
10    12  12 10 10
11    15  15 12 12
12    16  16 14 14
13    20  18 15 15
14    25  20 16 16
15           24 18 18
16           25 20 20
17           30 21 21
18           36 24 24
19                 25 25
20                 28 28
21                 30 30
22                 35 32
23                 36 35
24                 42 36
25                 49 40
26                       42
27                       48
28                       49
29                       56
30                       64
#3

uglyvan

May 01, 2010 8:38:26
... and of course the BASE you use for your stat levels is your highest sub-stat (from either the 8 LICORNES sub-stats or the 12 sub-stats from Ad&d 2.9)

BASE title
 1     Weak
 2     Mediocre
 3     Fair
 4     Good
 5     Excellent
 6     Superb
 7     Epic
 8     Legendary

(well BASE 5 is Excellent not Good errr )
#4

uglyvan

May 01, 2010 8:42:34
... or

BASE title
1      Impaired
2      Weak
3      Mediocre
4      Fair
5      Good
6      Superb
7      Epic
8      Legendary

(now BASE 5 is Good hehee! )
#5

uglyvan

May 01, 2010 14:44:43
the LICORNES combos can look like this:


earth           LI
war             LC
time             LO
numbers      LR
weather      LN
law              LE
necromantic LS
fire               IC
creation       IO
guardian      IR
animal         IN
air               IE
water          IS
chaos          CO
wards          CR
protection    CN
combat        CE
healing        CS
travelers      OR
summoning   ON
divination     OE
                     OS
charm           RN
thought        RE
                     RS
sun              NE
plant            NS
astral           ES

(these are divine spheres from Ad&d 2)

L    Logics
I    Influence
C   Body Reigns (french corps)
O   Technics (french outils)
R   Relationship
N   Nature
E   Mind (french esprit)
S   Sexuality
#6

uglyvan

May 01, 2010 16:36:09
a sample table for sub-stats points:

Global
Level  points
 1       1510
 2       1530
 3       1560
 4       1600
 5       1650
 6       1710
 7       1780
 8       1860
 9       1950
10      2050
11      2160
12      2280
13      2410
14      2550
15      2700
16      2860
17      3030
18      3210
19      3400
20      3600
21      3810
22      4030
23      4260
24      4500
25      4750
26      5010
27      5280
28      5560
29      5850
30      6150

sub-stats points are to be divided between stats ( 12 stats from Ad&d 2.9) and the 8 LICORNES Domains;

total  stat  Domain
         cost   cost
 8        n.a.    64
 9        n.a.    81
10       n.a.   100
11       n.a.   121
12       n.a.   144
13       n.a.   169
14       n.a.   196
15       n.a.   225
16                256
17                289
18                324
19                361
20       n.a.   400
24      300    576
25      325    625
26      351    676
27      378    729
28      406    784
29      435    841
30      465    900
31      496    961
32      528   1024
33      561   1089
34      595   1156
35      630   1225
40      820
45     1035
46     1081
47     1128
48     1176
49     1225
50     1275
51     1326
52     1378
53     1431
54     1485


edit: these two tables stink. Really.

stats cost have a lowest value of 24 because characteristics minimas are 3 which comes from 3x1 (for a total of (3+1) for each characteristic or (3+1)x6=24 which costs 300 points) ; at level 1 suppose you have only 3s in each of the six STR/DEX/CON/INT/WIS/CHA stats you end up with 1510-300=1210 points in the Domains total ===>1156 points / 34 Domains total; this lets you begin as a potent spellcaster with LICORNES values like 2/3/6/4/4/4/5/6 (at 1st level you are usually limited to BASE 6) so that you reach level 18 in CS (healing) and level 17 in CE (combat) and ES (astral); 1510-1156=354 which leads to a stats total of 26 (for a cost of 351 points); still, a totally unplayable character with only 3s (but it is workable by the rules lol); a typical 1st level character would be 48 stats points total; this would let him bear 4x4 stats combos (for a typical characteristic value of 12 under BASE 6); 48 points total = 1176 points; 1510-1176=334>324 (Domains total of 18, for example LICORNES 1/1/6/1/1/1/3/4 for level 15 in healing, level 13 in combat and level 10 in astral)

spells would presumably not be arranged like in DnD;
here a sample equivalence table
ability  Ad&d
level     eqv
  1-6      n.a.
 7-14    cantrip
15-16   1st level
17-18   2nd level
19-20   3rd level
21-22   4th level
  23      5th level
  24      6th level
  25      7th level
  26      8th level
  27      9th level
28-30   spells beyond 9th level
#7

uglyvan

May 02, 2010 4:48:45
now sub-stats from Ad&d 2.9:

Muscle:

use Global Level (1-30) x Muscle level (1-8) and refer to Global Table:

         Global Table
bonus  GL x sub-stat  #dice rolled
 +1      1                   1
 +2      3                   1
 +3      6                   1
 +4     10                  1
 +5     15                  1
 +6     21                  2
 +7     28                  2
 +8     36                  2
 +9     45                  2
+10   55                  2
+11   66                  3
+12   78                  3
+13   91                  3
+14  105                  3
+15  120                  4
+16  136                  4
+17  153                  4
+18  171                  5
+19  190                  5
+20  210                  6
+21  231                  7

Muscle sub-stat is used for melee attacks; it is opposed to a Balance check;
you roll upto the number of dice using d20s keeping the best value rolled and add the bonus to this die roll; magic (for a magic weapon in this case) is added to the bonus and can add d20s: for example, you are GL 10 with Muscle 6, branding a +2 long sword: 10x6=60===>+10 bonus and 2 dice rolled, add +2 for sword gives +12 bonus and 3 dice rolled.

Stamina:

stamina weight       max running
 level     allowance    speed
 1           10 lbs           x1 or 3 feet per second
 2           20 lbs           x2 or 6 feet per second
 3           40 lbs           x4 or 12 feet per second
 4           80 lbs           x6 or 18 feet per second
 5          150 lbs          x8 or 24 feet per second
 6          300 lbs         x10 or 30 feet per second
 7          500 lbs         x12 or 36 feet per second
 8         1000 lbs        x15 or 45 feet per second

weight allowance is for a typical 180 pounds adult; if weighting 210 pounds, multiply by 210/180
#8

uglyvan

May 02, 2010 5:18:23
Balance:

when not caught unaware, Balance gives general reflex saves and dodge;
use the Global Table with multiplying Balance level x Global Level;

armors:
   min       balance armor
balance    malus    type
    1             0         no armor
    2            -1         leather
    3            -2         chain mail
    5            -4         plate mail


Aim:

aim is used for distance attacks;
use Aim level x Global Level and refer to Global Table;

when you resolve a stat vs stat contest, the winner may gain extra bonuses to the efficiency of his action:
you add +1 to the damage rolled for each winning point of the contest;

example: Gurnghir punches through Yvain's plate armor
Gurnghir has Muscle 7, uses bare hands and is GL 17;
Yvain has Balance 6, wears plate armor and is GL 14;

Gurnghir: 7x17=119===>+14 bonus and 3 dice rolled: 17, 4, 5
Yvain: (6-4 for plate)x14=28===>+7 bonus and 2 dice rolled: 14, 20

Gurnghir keeps 17 and adds +14 bonus for a total of 31
Yvain keeps 20 and adds +7 bonus for a total of 27

Gurnghir - Yvain gives 31-27= +4 damage to the punch; well, actually armors lessen the damage taken (I dunno how by now)
#9

uglyvan

May 02, 2010 5:27:20
Fitness:

at 1st level (where you are limited to BASE 6), hit points are calculated like this:
Fitness hit points
 1         5
 2         7
 3        10
 4        14
 5        19
 6        25

when you reach 2nd or 3rd (global) level, you may adjust hp with using this formula:

(4+fitness) x GL


Health:

health gives you your Fortitude save using Health Level x Global Level and referring to Global Table
#10

uglyvan

May 04, 2010 9:57:18
another way of class level assignments:

15 classes each based on a two-stats combo:

Fighter  Str/Dex
Barbarian Str/Con
Ranger  Str/Int
Priest    Str/Wis
Paladin  Str/Cha
Ninja      Dex/Con
Illusionist Dex/Int
Monk       Dex/Wis
Thief       Dex/Cha
Psionicist  Con/Int
Druid       Con/Wis
Brute       Con/Cha
ArchMage  Int/Wis
Bard         Int/Cha
Ruler         Wis/Cha

you choose a three class combo with you choosing freely from the above with the restriction that you have only one of each the six stats in your three class combo i.e. Fighter/Psionicist/Ruler is valid but Fighter/Ninja/ArchMage is not valid (because Str/Dex + Dex/Con + Int/Wis uses Dex twice).

Then you call your three-class combo your preferred classes;
preferred classes begin at professional rank at level 0; they climb up to champion rank at level 1 and master rank at level 2;
other classes begin at incompetent rank at level 0, they climb up to novice rank at level 1 and amateur rank at level 2;

because you can climb in 15 classes upto level 2 in each, maximum Global Level is still 30. A beginning character must either choose a champion class in his preferred ones or a novice class in the other ones.

an incompetent class level means you know nothing of what the class deals with;
a novice class level gives you basic class operation knowledge and lets you recognise other characters of that class;
an amateur class level gives you ease of operation within the class boundaries;
a professional preferred class level means you use your class skills only to compete with other professionals (of their own preferred classes);
a champion class level means you can work properly as a champion for your cause (with no class restrictions);
a master class level makes you clever at noticeing hidden clues with the help of which you can end up encounters as easily as a snatch of your fingers; obviously you spend your time doing other things unnoticeable from normal neighbours...

at hte option of your DM, you can begin play with only one professional preferred class level, the other two being still of amateur type (as in youth age). Of course amateur level for a preferred class means one negative level; so with two amateur classes you would begin at GL -2...
#11

uglyvan

May 05, 2010 8:46:46

The four Axes:

The eight LICORNES Domains can be easily rearranged in a four-axes way:

L-S     |  "the high rationalists lack proper sexual education"
I-R     \  "influence is the opposite of relationship"
C-E   --- "the Mind is always preferred to the Body - Mind Over Body"
O-N    /  "animals have weak tools manipulation facilities - but strong nature empathy"

or, if you prefer,

Logics pertains to Neutral Good (are Modrons away from their base?)
Influence pertains to Chaotic Evil (Demons)
Corps/Body Reigns pertains to Chaotic Neutral (Berzerkers)
Outils/Technics pertains to Lawful Evil (Devils)
Relationship pertains to Lawful Good
Nature pertains to Chaotic Good (see the Outer Planes)
Esprit/Mind pertains to Lawful Neutral (where Monks come)
Sexuality pertains to Neutral Evil (see ArcanaDaemons)

edit: well actually I think I'm a little evil in my rationality, because Logics IS Neutral Evil not NG (see Terminator gulp!) and Sexuality is Neutral Good (see a lot of anime Mangas where virgin goddesses battle powerful demons - lol but a little hot to me to sell the info to; grmf! )

#12

uglyvan

May 05, 2010 9:08:16
now for a typical race combination of the six basic stats and the four axes:

human race:

stats total: 96 + 6/GL (maximum 276 at GL 30)
axes total: 16 + 4/GL (maximum 136 at GL 30)


let's say kobolds are weak physical opponents but fierce spellcasters:

stats total:  54 + 4/GL (maximum 174 at GL 30)
axes total:  36 + 6/GL (maximum 216 at GL 30)


the two totals (stats and axes) give the 10 combos (like in Str=(Muscle x Stamina), IR=(Influence x Relationship) etc); when Str=16 in BASE 6 it costs you 25 stats points (well a 5x5 combo costs 25 points that's all. (so that a 6x3 costs 18, a 2x2 costs 4 and so on).)

the above two race examples merely state that a starting human has stats averageing 12 and axes averageing 4, or sub-stats equal to 4 each and domains equal to 2 each; likewise, a starting kobold would bear stats of 8 (with sub-stats equal to 3) and axes of 8 (with domains equal to 3) (all of this on the average; remember that in order to enter BASE 6, one must bear at least one 6 in a given sub-stat or domain)
#13

uglyvan

May 07, 2010 3:49:26
 ... hmmm, six basic stats and four axes for a ten stat combination... this reminds me of another post I had sent here in those forums:

CORNE

C = Strength x Constitution
O = Dexterity x Intuition
R = Presence x Survival Instinct
N = Tactics x Empathy
E = Swiftness x Memory

here we've got ten stats; furthermore these stats can be cut in two for a twenty sub-stat combo:

Strength = Athletics x Physical Cohesion
Constitution = Endurance x Cleansing
Dexterity = Combat Reflexes x Reach
Intuition = Insight x Thievery
Presence = Intimidate x Leadership
Survival Instinct = Streetwise x Dungeoneering
Tactics = Bluff x Diplomacy
Empathy = Nature Lore x Religion
Swiftness = Speed Factor x Initiative
Memory = Arcana Lore x History

for the most these sub-stats come from DnD 4 skills; here are unreferenced defines:

Physical Cohesion gives Damage Reduction
Cleansing means you leave no trace; in effect it is equivalent to high stealth combined with high toxins resistance
Combat Reflexes gives general Fighter Level
Reach lets you dive deeper and deeper within an opponent's defenses like in Champions's Find Weakness Talent
Leadership is like Ad&d 2.9's sub-stat of Charisma
Speed Factor gives general speedness value: you get to act every n segments (a round is 10 segments long)
1 act every 10 segments
2                  9
3                  8
4                  7
5                  6
6                  5
7                  4
8                  3
Initiative is something I dunno about; perhaps it lets you manage different fights at the same time; I only know that with a good init you have the opportunity to act first against your opponent(s); is also very important to spellcasters; well this is all basic knowledge of that sub-stat, so mine score would be weak (2) (as with other Ad&d players' score; this time again Wizards win the contest - I speak "Wizards" for they're supposed to be what they claim to be, eh? )

( typical answer from Wizard: - Some knowledge requires in a correct way to get unvealed a lot of work from the janitor that I teach in the Magic Arts; keep up the good work, janitor )
#14

uglyvan

May 07, 2010 4:31:18
now if we use this system and still want to build classes based on a two stats combo, we would end up with 45 classes for a five-class multiclass system (as you arrange stats two by two - or is it two with two? - ) for a 9x7x5x3x1=945 choice of character builds; of course in a 5-class system, level 30 is reachable if all classes reach level 6; in another post relative to the ADOM roguelike I planned to let classes climb upto level 10 for a Global storyline of 50 Levels; the idea linked with maxlevel=10 for a given class was to let each class bear spells of upto level (class-1) (so that a level 5 rogue would use spells of level 0-4 in his Domain spells); if we limit class levels to 6 we could for example claim that in order to reach spell level 7 you need two 6th level classes; three 6th-level classes would permit spells of up to spell level 8, and four 6th level classes would empower your character with 9th level magic (for a minimum Global Level of 4x6=24; the 10th level of spell use would be available to 30th level characters - that is, a character bearing only 6th level classes).

..Or we could spend one day thinking of maximum spell levels based on GL, with bonus spell levels dependant on # 6th level classes, like in
GL   spell level
 1      0
 3      1
 5      2
 7      3
 9      4
11     5
13     6
in this regards, there would be a special spell level 11 given to 30th GL characters (like in the God's Quest)