Wishlist to 5 ed - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Wishlist to 5 ed

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
hertaybr
Nov 02, 2011 8:03:21 1) Reduce the level cap to 15. Actually, the campaings rarely reach the 20, the 30 ia quite impossible. It would take about 4 years. So, if level cap is 15, people can reach the end game. Plus, DM can use more monsters per level (total dividid per 15, not 30)

2) System Math do not depend of feats to be correct. Perhaps can remove the feats and replace by class features to choose

3) reduce number of class, based in concept. For example, "specialist" could englobe rogue, bard, assassin. You choose a Major Class feature from Sneak Attack, Bardic Song, Assassins poison use, etc. If possible, the people can do anyrhing like "dual specialization" of wow, so character can have 2 different roles

4) avoid stacks. Thats the principles of overpower. Special attention to itens

5) magic itens do not be part of system math, so they can be uncommon and rare and do cool things, not +2 to attack rolls

6) character themes be part of character creation. So it gives bonuses to some skills, bonuses to interact with some organizations, skill related and "class" features. So we can create a "devoted fighter", "wizard spy", etc

7) recall the spell levels and old spell system. Lots of spells in 4 e looks like an normal attack.

8) thats an dificult idea. What about put the campaing scenarios together (like an continent Khorvaire and other Faerun in the same world with modifications to not be redundanct and have interactions) and this "final setting" become the oficial setting. So the products can be boxes of parts of scenarios including maps, miniatures, desceriptions, cards, adventures. For example: Five nation box can have deitaled descriptions of places, miniatures of kings shield, royal eyes, paladins of thrane, etc, maps

9) someway to TPK do not end the characters (and perhaps the campaing). So players will feel tense in combats and not "know" that in the end the DM will miss attacks or use poor tactics to avoid TPK if the characters is good (good BG, important to storyline). Today a tpk can ruin a campaing

10) good gametesting with criterious itens
#2
fightingfish18
Nov 02, 2011 8:30:27 Not all bad ideas. I like the idea of spell levels. Not quite in agreement on level cap. Personally, in a game as open ended as d&d, I don't think there should be a level cap. Yes I know by the time you reach a certain point you'll just be getting a few extra hit points per level, but still. If a TPK ruins a campaign and players want a different group or DM or w/e, you've got the wrong group of players. As a player, I don't like having my character killed, but at the same time I get to make something new and interesting, so it's not all bad. I really like not having an official setting. I know the 3/3.5 official setting was technically Greyhawk, but how much Greyhawk was actually in the core products? Setting lite core encourages DMs to make their own worlds, which is one of my favorite things as a DM. Definitely in agreement on the Magic items not being figured into system math. I mean everyone loves magic items, but I don't feel like I'm getting something special in a 4e campaign when I get a new magic item. I haven't DMed 4e yet, but I will soon, and I want my players to feel like they are getting something special when I give them magic items. Inherent bonuses are pretty much BAB.
#3
Chris24601
Nov 02, 2011 9:28:55
What I'd like to see with any potential 5E is a few more sacred cows killed.

1) Let's do away with Armor Class as its properties can be covered by the Reflex defense (with armor modeled as Resist X to untyped damage). This also helps to equalize the difference between weapons and implements.

2) Let's do away with the relic of 3-18 Attribute scores and use the attribute bonuses directly (i.e. -1 to +5). If you kept the existing attribute boosts (at level 4, 8, et cetera) but added them to the bonus instead of the score you'd completely close the math hole in attacks and defenses, doing away with the need to have feat fixes.

3) Kill the notion of daily resources and balance the game around encounter math (thus banishing the 5 minute work day to the pits of Hell where it belongs).
#4
joydyhee
Nov 08, 2011 17:27:37 Some good ideas above...to comment and add:

1) Level cap: get rid of it. I definitely feel pigeonholed into a small world even if every game I play does not get to that level...this is one thing I enjoyed about earlier editions that I wish would come back

2) Couple #1 with making the gods more...unreachable, I guess. Should they have a level, sure, but not the at the top of the artificial ceiling for PCs...and they should break the rules of creature creation. Significantly.

3) Similar to the OP's #3, getting rid of classes altogether or limiting them to optional specialist type themes that grant some focus benefits but are not required. Couple this with having the "powers" list be open and letting players really customize their PC - want a sword-wielding wizard or a fighter who knows a quick word of minor healing? Pick the appropriate options and let it ride.

#3 would probably require the most revamping of the system...it would probably require some type of point-based buy system with the options weighted based on their benefit level, as opposed to taking all the 4E powers and saying, "Ok, level 1, pick any two at-wills from any list."

Then again, maybe that would work. Hmmm...think I will try that out.
#5
Xeviat-DM
Nov 10, 2011 20:10:22 9) someway to TPK do not end the characters (and perhaps the campaing). So players will feel tense in combats and not "know" that in the end the DM will miss attacks or use poor tactics to avoid TPK if the characters is good (good BG, important to storyline). Today a tpk can ruin a campaing 10) good gametesting with criterious itens

My comments, then my own thoughts:

1) I wouldn't reduce the level cap. I'd instead make it more apparent to start games at 1, 11, or 21, to suit the nature of the campaign. I'd also emplore more of a "story progression" for level progression rather than a "grinding progression" of 10 encounters to a level. 10 encounters to a level is a great pace for a group that regularly plays, and it allows a lot of time to play with your toys (class abilities and powers), but by removing the focus from the grind and turning it onto the story, players could focus on the fun of the game and not the fact that it's a game.

2) I cannot agree with you more.

3) I don't know about reducing classes. 4E went a long way to make sure the classes remained distinct entities from each other. What we really need is less power bloat, and the recent Rule of Three article pointed to some thoughts on that.

4) Yes, yes, and yes. Avoid stacking abilities. All attack bonus granting features should be combat advantage. Then you may pick up a couple of feats that say "I get combat advantage when ..." instead of possibly getting a +8 random bonus from piling on multiple things.

5) I want this more than anything. Remove the enhancement bonuses and put them in the math; that keeps scaling proper. If items follow an economy of actions, then you could really get as many as you want and be fine.

6) I avoided character themes originally. Now I love them. "Animal Companion" is a great character theme, for instance, which would allow a Fighter to have his trusty guard dog, a Wizard to have his familiar, and a Druid to have his mystic companion, all without having to make individual variant classes for each.

7) Maybe a little. I like that you need to attack HP to take something down; save or dies really made the non-casters feel useless and they suck to have them used against you.

8) No. People love thems their settings.

9) The game kind of already does that. Rather than 0 hp meaning kill, it can mean kill or disable. DMs can take prisoners, and that's what a TPK would mean in my games; it's hard to do in a module, but not impossible if it's the baseline assumption.

10) Good gametesting is a requirement.

Here are my wishes that you didn't address:

1) Remove daily everything. The biggest thing I hate as a DM is that I feel required to make a day add up to X experience otherwise my players are encouraged to nova. Having a daily construct dictates my stories. The current system could be altered if everyone had 2 healing surges per fight (defenders get 3), second winds were unlimited, and there was more power-based non-surge healing.

2) Streamline, streamline, streamline. The compendium shows 3123 feats, and I cannot even begin to count how many of those are overlapped, obsoleted, or overriden by other feats. This simply has to stop. The compendium was a tool to keep this from happening.
#6
Luis_Carlos
Nov 11, 2011 10:35:52 I would like the return of monster classes. I want all humanoid monsters like optional PC race.

I have seen some "new" classes from Pathfinder rpg, and I think there are some good ideas. A good core classes isn´t only a list a powers but a special identity.

I don´t want boring list of powers about moving. Sometimes it could be useful or funny for a miniature game but I´m a fan of D&D like creator of stories.

I have a crazy/mad/fool idea. I don´t know if it could works but I think about a second level table. How do it explain? Do you rebember the creations of character by point in miniatures games? The second table would work like a template (special help and some penalties like sickness, fatal injuries, curses, poisons..). The second table would be like a extra PCs when DM gives rewards of PXs. The special help are the extras the PCs haven´t got by level (sidesicks, legendary weapons, modern tecnology, superpowers, pets...). My idea is the "extra level" would help to get a good balance of power and reward of PXs when players are no fantasy settings (for exaple d20 future or d20 past). Some special help could be templates like (popular) half-dragon (I know 4th ed has got draconids PC race).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 hertaybr Nov 02, 2011 8:03:21	1) Reduce the level cap to 15. Actually, the campaings rarely reach the 20, the 30 ia quite impossible. It would take about 4 years. So, if level cap is 15, people can reach the end game. Plus, DM can use more monsters per level (total dividid per 15, not 30) 2) System Math do not depend of feats to be correct. Perhaps can remove the feats and replace by class features to choose 3) reduce number of class, based in concept. For example, "specialist" could englobe rogue, bard, assassin. You choose a Major Class feature from Sneak Attack, Bardic Song, Assassins poison use, etc. If possible, the people can do anyrhing like "dual specialization" of wow, so character can have 2 different roles 4) avoid stacks. Thats the principles of overpower. Special attention to itens 5) magic itens do not be part of system math, so they can be uncommon and rare and do cool things, not +2 to attack rolls 6) character themes be part of character creation. So it gives bonuses to some skills, bonuses to interact with some organizations, skill related and "class" features. So we can create a "devoted fighter", "wizard spy", etc 7) recall the spell levels and old spell system. Lots of spells in 4 e looks like an normal attack. 8) thats an dificult idea. What about put the campaing scenarios together (like an continent Khorvaire and other Faerun in the same world with modifications to not be redundanct and have interactions) and this "final setting" become the oficial setting. So the products can be boxes of parts of scenarios including maps, miniatures, desceriptions, cards, adventures. For example: Five nation box can have deitaled descriptions of places, miniatures of kings shield, royal eyes, paladins of thrane, etc, maps 9) someway to TPK do not end the characters (and perhaps the campaing). So players will feel tense in combats and not "know" that in the end the DM will miss attacks or use poor tactics to avoid TPK if the characters is good (good BG, important to storyline). Today a tpk can ruin a campaing 10) good gametesting with criterious itens
#2 fightingfish18 Nov 02, 2011 8:30:27	Not all bad ideas. I like the idea of spell levels. Not quite in agreement on level cap. Personally, in a game as open ended as d&d, I don't think there should be a level cap. Yes I know by the time you reach a certain point you'll just be getting a few extra hit points per level, but still. If a TPK ruins a campaign and players want a different group or DM or w/e, you've got the wrong group of players. As a player, I don't like having my character killed, but at the same time I get to make something new and interesting, so it's not all bad. I really like not having an official setting. I know the 3/3.5 official setting was technically Greyhawk, but how much Greyhawk was actually in the core products? Setting lite core encourages DMs to make their own worlds, which is one of my favorite things as a DM. Definitely in agreement on the Magic items not being figured into system math. I mean everyone loves magic items, but I don't feel like I'm getting something special in a 4e campaign when I get a new magic item. I haven't DMed 4e yet, but I will soon, and I want my players to feel like they are getting something special when I give them magic items. Inherent bonuses are pretty much BAB.
#3 Chris24601 Nov 02, 2011 9:28:55	What I'd like to see with any potential 5E is a few more sacred cows killed. 1) Let's do away with Armor Class as its properties can be covered by the Reflex defense (with armor modeled as Resist X to untyped damage). This also helps to equalize the difference between weapons and implements. 2) Let's do away with the relic of 3-18 Attribute scores and use the attribute bonuses directly (i.e. -1 to +5). If you kept the existing attribute boosts (at level 4, 8, et cetera) but added them to the bonus instead of the score you'd completely close the math hole in attacks and defenses, doing away with the need to have feat fixes. 3) Kill the notion of daily resources and balance the game around encounter math (thus banishing the 5 minute work day to the pits of Hell where it belongs).
#4 joydyhee Nov 08, 2011 17:27:37	Some good ideas above...to comment and add: 1) Level cap: get rid of it. I definitely feel pigeonholed into a small world even if every game I play does not get to that level...this is one thing I enjoyed about earlier editions that I wish would come back 2) Couple #1 with making the gods more...unreachable, I guess. Should they have a level, sure, but not the at the top of the artificial ceiling for PCs...and they should break the rules of creature creation. Significantly. 3) Similar to the OP's #3, getting rid of classes altogether or limiting them to optional specialist type themes that grant some focus benefits but are not required. Couple this with having the "powers" list be open and letting players really customize their PC - want a sword-wielding wizard or a fighter who knows a quick word of minor healing? Pick the appropriate options and let it ride. #3 would probably require the most revamping of the system...it would probably require some type of point-based buy system with the options weighted based on their benefit level, as opposed to taking all the 4E powers and saying, "Ok, level 1, pick any two at-wills from any list." Then again, maybe that would work. Hmmm...think I will try that out.
#5 Xeviat-DM Nov 10, 2011 20:10:22	9) someway to TPK do not end the characters (and perhaps the campaing). So players will feel tense in combats and not "know" that in the end the DM will miss attacks or use poor tactics to avoid TPK if the characters is good (good BG, important to storyline). Today a tpk can ruin a campaing 10) good gametesting with criterious itens My comments, then my own thoughts: 1) I wouldn't reduce the level cap. I'd instead make it more apparent to start games at 1, 11, or 21, to suit the nature of the campaign. I'd also emplore more of a "story progression" for level progression rather than a "grinding progression" of 10 encounters to a level. 10 encounters to a level is a great pace for a group that regularly plays, and it allows a lot of time to play with your toys (class abilities and powers), but by removing the focus from the grind and turning it onto the story, players could focus on the fun of the game and not the fact that it's a game. 2) I cannot agree with you more. 3) I don't know about reducing classes. 4E went a long way to make sure the classes remained distinct entities from each other. What we really need is less power bloat, and the recent Rule of Three article pointed to some thoughts on that. 4) Yes, yes, and yes. Avoid stacking abilities. All attack bonus granting features should be combat advantage. Then you may pick up a couple of feats that say "I get combat advantage when ..." instead of possibly getting a +8 random bonus from piling on multiple things. 5) I want this more than anything. Remove the enhancement bonuses and put them in the math; that keeps scaling proper. If items follow an economy of actions, then you could really get as many as you want and be fine. 6) I avoided character themes originally. Now I love them. "Animal Companion" is a great character theme, for instance, which would allow a Fighter to have his trusty guard dog, a Wizard to have his familiar, and a Druid to have his mystic companion, all without having to make individual variant classes for each. 7) Maybe a little. I like that you need to attack HP to take something down; save or dies really made the non-casters feel useless and they suck to have them used against you. 8) No. People love thems their settings. 9) The game kind of already does that. Rather than 0 hp meaning kill, it can mean kill or disable. DMs can take prisoners, and that's what a TPK would mean in my games; it's hard to do in a module, but not impossible if it's the baseline assumption. 10) Good gametesting is a requirement. Here are my wishes that you didn't address: 1) Remove daily everything. The biggest thing I hate as a DM is that I feel required to make a day add up to X experience otherwise my players are encouraged to nova. Having a daily construct dictates my stories. The current system could be altered if everyone had 2 healing surges per fight (defenders get 3), second winds were unlimited, and there was more power-based non-surge healing. 2) Streamline, streamline, streamline. The compendium shows 3123 feats, and I cannot even begin to count how many of those are overlapped, obsoleted, or overriden by other feats. This simply has to stop. The compendium was a tool to keep this from happening.
#6 Luis_Carlos Nov 11, 2011 10:35:52	I would like the return of monster classes. I want all humanoid monsters like optional PC race. I have seen some "new" classes from Pathfinder rpg, and I think there are some good ideas. A good core classes isn´t only a list a powers but a special identity. I don´t want boring list of powers about moving. Sometimes it could be useful or funny for a miniature game but I´m a fan of D&D like creator of stories. I have a crazy/mad/fool idea. I don´t know if it could works but I think about a second level table. How do it explain? Do you rebember the creations of character by point in miniatures games? The second table would work like a template (special help and some penalties like sickness, fatal injuries, curses, poisons..). The second table would be like a extra PCs when DM gives rewards of PXs. The special help are the extras the PCs haven´t got by level (sidesicks, legendary weapons, modern tecnology, superpowers, pets...). My idea is the "extra level" would help to get a good balance of power and reward of PXs when players are no fantasy settings (for exaple d20 future or d20 past). Some special help could be templates like (popular) half-dragon (I know 4th ed has got draconids PC race).