| #1TheCriticalFailAug 16, 2014 11:22:33 | Hello there,
I've recently been working on a build (well a lot of builds but one in particular relating to this) which relies heavily upon mounts and the "Find Steed" spell. However, as a result I noticed that there are a few rules regarding mounts that are pretty much glossed over and would be grateful to hear the opinions of others regarding them.
Firstly, while I understand the difference between controlling a mount and allowing it to act independently... how would you go about switching between these in combat? For example, a warhorse created with the find steed spell is trained (it's a warhorse, that's more or less taken for granted in the title) or at the very least could be trained. So presuming it is trained, you can control the mount. However, the spell creates "an unusually intelligent, strong and loyal steed" which, in addition with the fact that it can understand a language, would infer that it is likely intelligent enough to act independently. Indeed, the rules imply that all non-trained creatures can act independently.
So considering this, you should be able to either control the mount or allow it to act independently whilst you ride it (thus granting the ability for it to attack). Would you be able to change this on your turn? When the mount moves? At any moment since you have a telepathic link? What are your opinions.
Secondly, how would certain abilities such as the paladin's "relentless avenger" work while mounted? The ability states "when you hit a creature with your opportunity attack you can move up to half your speed immediately after the attack and as part of the same reaction". Would this ability be completely negated while mounted, since you're instead relying on your mount for movement? Or can we presume that you can use the reaction to control the mount and move it up to half speed instead?
Thank you for your time and I'd love to hear your thoughts on scenarios like these, since they're not really covered within the mounts section of the PHB.
Well, unless I'm blind and missed it entirely, which does happen on occasion. But I'm fairly certain they're not.
Thanks!
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| #2RCanineAug 16, 2014 13:57:38 | Here's how I would rule it:
- A mount is either controlled or acts independently; it cannot do both.
- If the mount has intelligence of 8+ or is not trained to be a mount, it acts independently, otherwise it is controlled.
- The DM has final rule on whether something is "trained as a mount".
- If the mount is controlled, it still gets its action and move as normal, and you choose them.
- The a controlled mount can only take the Dash, Disengage or Dodge action unless you use your action to order it to attack.
- If the mount acts independently, the DM chooses its actions. You are free to suggest how you'd like the mount to act, and the DM decides how it responds.
- Were the mount intelligent enough, I may opt to use the interaction rules from the playtest packet (which I'm guessing will be in the DM's Guide) infrequently during combat to determine whether the mount obeys the PC or not.
There are other problems with the Find Steed spell, specificaly that it doesn't impose limitations on the form--can I summon a dragon steed?--I was going to make a separate post suggesting clarifying errata for that.
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| #4RCanineAug 16, 2014 14:29:34 | Controlling vs independent
There are two questions:
- Can the mount be controlled?
- Will the mount allow itself to be controlled.
If you decide that a mount can be controlled, and you let it act independently, as DM I'm going to have it behave as if you were controlling it anyway. So the end result is point above.
Mount attacks
I'm intentionally departing from RAW here, because I think it's more fun, is more realistic, and doesn't disrupt game balance. Knights frequently used their warhorses as weapons in battle, and how fun would it be to have a dire wolf mount, but not let it bite anyone? You're controlling it, you can make it attack. I'm thinking that RAI was just preventing PCs from getting additional damage in combat, and I think it's pretty rare that a PC's mount's attacks will be better than their own. I think that I would even allow a 5th-level character with the Extra Attack class feature to use one of those attacks to command their mount to attack instead, like the BM Ranger does, unless I encountered a situation I thought was abusing that rule.
I wouldn't build a PC that assumed my DM would let me attack with my mount, but at my tables I'd allow it.
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